Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 293: LIBERATE BOARD 8!

(+) Yeah! (+)

I checked 10 followers of that account all come back as bots.

That account has 17000 followers.

If you are wondering how large scale these operations are, they are sitting open right in front of our faces.

Right in front of Twitter's face. Fuck Twitter.

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...wonder if there's potential of a russian bot ring vs. chinese bot rings, with american ones splattered everywhere too. we know the latter is already active with coronavirus stuff and spreading rumors related to it and if they have to choose between biden/democrats and trump, they're far better with the former.

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i'm surprised you'd be outraged at all on twitter bots. a significant amount of twitter is literally just bots. some are good - porn basically - but there's a ton of crap out there.

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Corrik7 posted...

Bernie supporters are really the only ones on the left giving it any traction. Which, of course, would be in reverse if Bernie won the nomination and the allegation was against him. Then Bernie Sanders would be downplaying it and Biden supporters would be the ones caring.

It's just the funny part about politics. Majority of people are simply supporting a letter. If their letter does it, defend defend defend. If the other letter does it, attack attack attack.

Winning the election is more important than consistency.

Simple truth.

...You dont see any irony in saying this when literally using Bernie and Biden supporters as the two sides?

xp1337 posted...

okay let me rephrase that. "really telling way to describe this"

Id say this tone-policing adjacent take is pretty telling itself.

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i disagree with corrik on that bit actually - i think a significant amount of bernie's camp would take it more seriously and they would, at the least, look for excuses or come to terms with the potential of a flawed candidate who is still the best they have to offer. others would say that he shouldn't run for office because the principle matters more, at which point you'd probably see warren surge. ...if this scandal was anywhere close to where it is now back when bloomberg was around, that could've been a good dig at two male candidates for her women power pitch. ...actually that too would be a power move, if she decided to stage a coup to kick biden out using this allegation + saying he's too weak. doubt she'd do it though.

but bernie's base is far more in the "fall in love" side of democratic candidates so a good chunk would be heartbroken but still accept it or recant their support. biden's camp is firmly "fall in line," meaning full denial or being hypocritical until ultimately, it doesn't matter because he's not trump.


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Eh, I kinda agree with Corrik that hardcore Bernie supporters would be the same

When the supposed comment to Warren came out, which was nowhere near as bad, they immediately shifted into hard defense mode of "He never said that. He would never say that. She's a lying snake."

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That video definitely lends some credence to her claim. She still has to explain why she was praising Joe up until 2017, including saying he was a champion of women who were victims of sexual assault.

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StealThisSheen posted...

Eh, I kinda agree with Corrik that hardcore Bernie supporters would be the same

When the supposed comment to Warren came out, which was nowhere near as bad, they immediately shifted into hard defense mode of "He never said that. He would never say that. She's a lying snake."

Well we had evidence he literally asked Warren to run in 2016 and then campaigned harder for Hillary than she did herself.

Youd have to be brain dead to think Bernie would straight-up say a woman cant be President.

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Also when you consider that the hardest of hardcore Bernie supporters seem to be leaning NeverBiden, in spite of what Bernie is telling them, I think its hard to make the argument Bernie supporters would be just as hypocritical.

His base has always prioritized issues over a cult of personality, the medias reporting combined with Bernie being the ONLY guy walking his walk is why people are so misinformed about his base, imo.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

His base has always prioritized issues over a cult of personality

Being Never Biden is literally doing the opposite of prioritizing the issues.

The entire progressive movement is basically dead forever with 4 more year of Trump.

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and obviously dead forever is an exaggeration, but dead for at least 25 years or so with a stacked conservative Supreme Court. Dead for the prime years of most of our lives may as well be dead forever.

Not to mention who knows how many actually dead because Trump will be President when we are going through another wave of Coronavirus.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Id say this tone-policing adjacent take is pretty telling itself.

I am... saddened... that that's how you took that statement.

The point I was making there was that both the initial take of "this is gold" followed by the inability to see how I found that take really revealing was precisely the reason why the right has so much trouble comprehending how many on the left view all this and much of their attacks are bad faith concern trolling.

To see this accusation first through the lens of a political bludgeon, either to Biden directly - or to "the left" in general over some perceived hypocrisy - is missing the entire point of MeToo and Believe Women that they think this is some huge "gotcha" on.

The e n t i r e point was that when such accusations are made to take them seriously and investigate and not just blow it off. By immediately pivoting to using it as a political weapon they're blowing right over the abhorrent behavior described in the allegation and going right to "both sides" and "hypocritical left!"

My position at least has always been we should take the accusation seriously and investigate. I disagree strongly with the ridiculous take in here by some that this is "the same as Ford" and don't care to re litigate all that but I do think the media should continue to investigate the claim and I don't believe this has been reflecting well on Biden at all. It hasn't been to spin right into the political ramifications this may or may not have. This may be the politics topic but that doesn't mean I think it's really "in-bounds" to try and cast any and all news in some "but what does it mean politically" and I think that doing so is kind of callous in some circumstances. Warren's brother passing away due to COVID-19 and going right into the veepstakes is another example that really bugged me but I didn't feel like saying anything because I try not to voice every thing that may bug me that happens in this topic - but this subject has shown repeatedly it'll dominate the topic for a bunch of posts and I honestly was slightly taken aback by the blunt phrasing "this is gold" in regards to the nature of the allegation at hand.

Like it's the worst of the whole "politics as a sports game" attitude that underlies so much of the polarization these days.

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To be fair, after a very qualified woman lost to a literal reality TV star, and then four years later we are now choosing between two old white guys, I'm now of the mindset that a woman probably can't be president because people are terrible.

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red13n posted...

Being Never Biden is literally doing the opposite of prioritizing the issues.

The entire progressive movement is basically dead forever with 4 more year of Trump.

Nah, it's the calculation that Joe Biden gives us 4 years of "well, at least it's better than better than Trump" followed by a backlash in 2024 where a competent monster in the Republican party takes over until 2032.

If Joe doesn't win the Senate, what's the plan for the Supreme Court? Hope that the media doesn't whip up a frenzy against "do-nothing Joe" and they can win it in 2022?

You cannot deny that a Joe Biden Presidency sets up a potentially disastrous 2024, because his entire support is based on "Not Trump". What happens when Trump is gone??

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Also to be clear, I'm planning on voting for Joe Biden, but at this point it is 100% a pity vote, I think Democrats (and the Left) are fucked.

I think you guys fucked us.

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A 7-2 SC is the death knell for the progressive movement in our lifetimes.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

If Joe doesn't win the Senate, what's the plan for the Supreme Court? Hope that the media doesn't whip up a frenzy against "do-nothing Joe" and they can win it in 2022?

I've yet to see someone answer this.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

You cannot deny that a Joe Biden Presidency sets up a potentially disastrous 2024, because his entire support is based on "Not Trump"

This is not why he is popular in Michigan.

Also his entire support is he was Obama's VP and I shouldn't need to tell you how popular Obama was. He should theoretically be taking into account that his VP pick is someone that is going to be the Democratic nominee in 2024 should he win.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I think you guys fucked us.

Who is you guys?

Because the people that "fucked us" are again the people that continue to never show up and vote.

(I voted for Warren)

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I've yet to see someone answer this.

Because there isn't an answer? No Democratic president could do anything in that situation, this isn't a Biden-specific problem. 2022 map is a lot more favorable for Democrats but still.

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red13n posted...

Who is you guys?

Because the people that "fucked us" are again the people that continue to never show up and vote.

(I voted for Warren)

The people who told us Biden was the best choice.

xp1337 posted...

Because there isn't an answer? No Democratic president could do anything in that situation, this isn't a Biden-specific problem. 2022 map is a lot more favorable for Democrats but still.

"blah blah he couldn't win a primary so he can't win a general" let's get that falsehood out of the way, 2020 was the YEAR to pick a change candidate that actually inspires people.

But we didn't.

I just don't see a successful future for a Democratic party that settles for an uninspiring candidate like Joe.

I'm falling into black pill territory more and more every day when Trump says another one of the dumbest things of all time and yet Joe Biden's support doesn't go up.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

"blah blah he couldn't win a primary so he can't win a general" let's get that falsehood out of the way, 2020 was the YEAR to pick a change candidate that actually inspires people.

But we didn't.

I'm not so sure it's a "falsehood" as "unfalsifiable " just as "Sanders would have won [year]" is unfalsifiable. No one can say whether it's true or false.

The only thing we can say with certainty is that in a primary election Biden had more supporters than Sanders. Full stop. If you're arguing Sanders has some hidden unactivated base of voters just waiting to vote for him then this primary was the time to activate them and it's real hard to say that if he couldn't activate them against Biden that he would in a general. Or in a goddamn midterm in a "Sanders wins but Dems don't win the Senate" scenario like the one you posed for Biden.

I'm not satisfied with a Biden primary win, but it happened and I have to make my peace with it. I wanted Warren, I would have settled for a number of other candidates on the spectrum between Sanders/Warren and Biden. It didn't happen. Now because FPTP is the fucking worst and our electoral system is the fucking worst there's only two viable outcomes: Trump or Biden and that's something we all have to deal with.

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xp1337 posted...

To see this accusation first through the lens of a political bludgeon

what first, this story's been out for a month now. at this point the politics of the situation is the main element.

xp1337 posted...

and I honestly was slightly taken aback by the blunt phrasing "this is gold" in regards to the nature of the allegation at hand.

biden/his team has said there wasn't anything there, not even harassment.
an audio clip with a bit of framing will do the job for that.

biden's opponent is a man who specifically found women who made allegations against his opponent's husband and put them front and center. this is up his alley man.


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"You guys" learned absolutely nothing from 2016 and ran the same, exact candidate that lost to a wildly (and unfairly) unpopular Hillary Clinton, you attacked a plethora of better candidates than Joe Biden when they rose in the polls because they just couldn't live up to Bernie's insanely high standards, and Bernie then lost because, perhaps, going out of your way to attack a sizable portion of the electorate that actually goes out and votes while appealing solely to the portion of the electorate that sits at home and posts memes on Twitter...not the best way to garner votes. And by that point, everyone else was driven out of the race, so now we're stuck with handsy, mushmouth Biden.

You think I'm HAPPY to vote for Joe Biden? Fuck no. But I think the progressive wing has fucked us just as much as the moderates by putting Bernie on SO HIGH of a pedestal that you couldn't even imagine that "the most popular politician in America" doesn't appeal to a bunch of fucking people. And as a result, the progressive movement flounders because if you're not willing to go to the radical extreme (by American standards, since inevitably people will compare our left wing to Europe's) that Bernie is willing to go, then you're not good enough.

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Corrik7 posted...

Bernie supporters are really the only ones on the left giving it any traction. Which, of course, would be in reverse if Bernie won the nomination and the allegation was against him.

can you not put words in my mouth, please?

if there were damning evidence that bernie was a rapist, i'd say he's a total scumbag and would immediately stop supporting him.

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

can you not put words in my mouth, please?

if there were damning evidence that bernie was a rapist, i'd say he's a total scumbag and would immediately stop supporting him.

Put the exact same scenario as Ford or Reade towards Bernie. You would defend Bernie. You changed the scenario. Lol.

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Corrik7 posted...

Put the exact same scenario as Ford or Reade towards Bernie. You would defend Bernie.

no, i wouldn't.

how dare you accuse me of defending someone against rape allegations just because i happen to agree with their political opinions? that's a disgusting accusation. take it back.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

The people who told us Biden was the best choice.

I stand by the idea that any Bernie supporters who decided to stay home because the media said Biden was the best choice were never really into the revolution to begin with. The point is to fight opposition like that, not go "Oh okay sorry" and give in just because things seem tough.

It's a poor excuse for anybody trying to use it.

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Inviso posted...

"You guys" learned absolutely nothing from 2016 and ran the same, exact candidate that lost to a wildly (and unfairly) unpopular Hillary Clinton, you attacked a plethora of better candidates than Joe Biden when they rose in the polls because they just couldn't live up to Bernie's insanely high standards, and Bernie then lost because, perhaps, going out of your way to attack a sizable portion of the electorate that actually goes out and votes while appealing solely to the portion of the electorate that sits at home and posts memes on Twitter...not the best way to garner votes. And by that point, everyone else was driven out of the race, so now we're stuck with handsy, mushmouth Biden.

It's hard to respond to this because I can't tell if you're trying to crack a clever joke or actually believe this.

Inviso posted...

You think I'm HAPPY to vote for Joe Biden? f*** no. But I think the progressive wing has f***ed us just as much as the moderates by putting Bernie on SO HIGH of a pedestal that you couldn't even imagine that "the most popular politician in America" doesn't appeal to a bunch of f***ing people. And as a result, the progressive movement flounders because if you're not willing to go to the radical extreme (by American standards, since inevitably people will compare our left wing to Europe's) that Bernie is willing to go, then you're not good enough.

Literally nobody else has walked the walk like they've talked the talk like Bernie, PUH-LEASE stop with this shit. "You think I want Biden!? If only you guys magically crafted another popular politician with progressive views and record then MAYBE you would have beaten this candidate I think is terrible"

Do you even understand what you're saying? It's entirely Bernie's fault those other candidate's dropped out, they clearly have no agency, and Joe Biden, who is bad, won on accident?

Stop trolling, I can't even properly debate this.

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

no, i wouldn't.

how dare you accuse me of defending someone against rape allegations just because i happen to agree with their political opinions? that's a disgusting accusation. take it back.

Nope. And, you know it is true. Easy to say when the situation isn't upon you.

Also, good to know you think both of those are damning allegations.

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If you don't like the candidate that's up, don't vote for them. Super easy. Don't vote for shit you hate because it's better than the alternative.

That's my final say on the matter and am beyond caring about opposition to it.

Corrik7 posted...

Nope. And, you know it is true. Easy to say when the situation isn't upon you.

fuck you

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I voted Bernie, though I also would've been happy with Warren.

Unfortunately, many people like you went "No, FUCK Warren" and wouldn't budge even remotely, so I think pulling the "you guys" shit on people for not wanting to budge from Biden is a bad look.

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

fuck you

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

That's my final say on the matter

We both know it's not

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Corrik7 posted...

posting fucking stupid emojis doesn't change the fact that you're a total asshole

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I've already blocked most of the peope that would come at me about it, I'm pretty much done.

Mr Lasastryke posted...

posting fucking stupid emojis doesn't change the fact that you're a total asshole

You tell people fuck you or fuck off like every couple of days. It is absolutely a you issue.

Like you can sit here and mash the virtue signal button all day, but it doesn't change that many who have done the same here find ways to conveniently not mash it when it comes to something they support.

You have shown nothing that would make me think this would not apply to you.

You have been no harsher in your allegation virtue signaller stampbook responses than TheRock, and we see how easily his thoughts changed as soon as it was someone who he supported on the end of the stick.


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Corrik7 posted...

You tell people fuck you or fuck off like every couple of days.

and it's almost always warranted


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Mr Lasastryke posted...

and it's almost always warranted

Yeah... Okay. Lol.



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you can "lol" all you want, you're still a fucking asshole

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StealThisSheen posted...

I voted Bernie, though I also would've been happy with Warren.

Unfortunately, many people like you went "No, FUCK Warren" and wouldn't budge even remotely, so I think pulling the "you guys" shit on people for not wanting to budge from Biden is a bad look.

I said it many many times before, Warren was my #2 for the longest time.

I won't elaborate on why I'm so soured because it will make people mad, but you know anyway.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

I've already blocked most of the peope that would come at me about it, I'm pretty much done.

Likely non-voter continues to not vote. Wonders why no one pays attention to him.

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red13n posted...

Likely non-voter continues to not vote. Wonders why no one pays attention to him.

If you look at pure numbers, Dems would win every election for the rest of time if they paid attention to people like him.

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

you can "lol" all you want, you're still a fucking asshole

You need that last word, eh? Surely it means a lot you, yes?

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

If you look at pure numbers, Dems would win every election for the rest of time if they paid attention to people like him.

You are assuming a lot of things here. Namely that the people in the middle of the road, made up of older, more likely voters, wont turn and vote the other way. This would likely be a false assumption.

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what "means a lot to me" is that i just got accused of not giving a shit about rape if the person getting accused of being a rapist is someone i agree with politically.

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I think we've gone over it recently, probably in this topic even, "Democrats are more likely to vote off the ticket" is not a mantra of the far left, its a blanket statement to all Democrats.

Its why voting matters. You try to gain 1% of the young vote at the cost 1% of the old vote, guess what you just did? You lost a whole bunch of net voters.

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The problem is that people don't want to think they are voting for a rapist.

That is why Republicans didn't say Trump raped women, but we don't care we will still vote for him.

However, Democrats didn't measure their response. They turned the other guy is a sexual assaulter into a rallying cry, not realizing that sensationalizing these views that didn't warrant it was not a good idea and could boomerang around, quite easily actually since the burden of proof was so literally devoid of any actual evidence.

It puts Democrats into a bind specifically. Do you follow that clearly oversensationalized response fully and disavow wrongly when it does boomerang back based on your prior actions or do you become a hypocrite?

The correct response would to admit the oversensationalized response prior and now you see why it was wrong, but Democrats find it hard to admit they were wrong while the other side still exists.

Not many are going to go with, I view them both as sexual assaulters or rapists, and I choose to vote for the rapist / etc that best represents my viewed. Because most people don't want to think people that way represent their views period.

Thus, they have to spin or warp the situation to somehow not being the same. This is what you see with Biden supporters right now. The only Dems that are really calling out Biden the same way they did Kavanaugh and such are mostly just Bernie supporters who were Bernie or bust.

There are frankly very few Biden supporters that are going to disavow Biden and frankly very few Bernie supporters who will vote for Biden that will do the same either. They will simply change the goalposts. Which really isn't too bad because they are changing them to where they should have been all along. But, it is interesting to see it still applied the other way to political opposition.

That is why Pelosi being called out was funny. It is basically an admittance that the sexual assault claims against Kavanaugh were purely being used politically and not because it is something she ideologically feels at her core.


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Biden will win 2020.

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