Board 8 > Hearthstone Topic #4: Where Illidan and Millhouse are top tier.

(+) Yeah! (+)

That was meant as less of an 'I know what's wrong, why won't they just do what I want' statement and more of a 'This is the song that doesn't end, yes it goes on and on my friend...' one.

I don't think half of the Demon Hunter cards that have already been nerfed needed it.

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You can't interact with dormant minions at all

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ShatteredElysium posted...

Didn't matter in the end but just came across an uncertainty in a match which made me not play a card. Does 'Destroy All Minions' remove dormant minions? And if so, do their deathrattles still activate?

In my instance I had Teron Gorefiend in hand with a Dormant minion on the board whose deathrattle would have given me lethal that turn. I didn't think the Destroy All Other Friendly Minions would remove the minion (so trigger the deathrattle) so didn't play the card and waited until next turn.

Dormant minions are basically immune, there's no way to interact with them. Even Reno's "make all minions disappear" battlecry doesn't affect dormant minions.

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My deck is even more geared to stop aggro decks.

Highlander Priest
# Class: Priest
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Phoenix
#
# 1x (1) Holy Smite
# 1x (1) Imprisoned Homunculus
# 1x (1) Renew
# 1x (2) Imprisoned Vilefiend
# 1x (2) Mo'arg Artificer
# 1x (2) Penance
# 1x (2) Sethekk Veilweaver
# 1x (2) Shadow Word: Death
# 1x (2) Thoughtsteal
# 1x (2) Wild Pyromancer
# 1x (2) Zephrys the Great
# 1x (3) Apotheosis
# 1x (3) Breath of the Infinite
# 1x (3) Dark Prophecy
# 1x (3) Madame Lazul
# 1x (3) Mindflayer Kaahrj
# 1x (3) Shadow Madness
# 1x (4) Bone Wraith
# 1x (4) High Priest Amet
# 1x (4) Holy Nova
# 1x (5) Chronobreaker
# 1x (5) Convincing Infiltrator
# 1x (5) Sandhoof Waterbearer
# 1x (6) Aeon Reaver
# 1x (6) Khartut Defender
# 1x (7) Galakrond, the Unspeakable
# 1x (7) Skeletal Dragon
# 1x (7) Soul Mirror
# 1x (9) Dragonqueen Alexstrasza
# 1x (9) Plague of Death

AAECAafDAx4e3AGXAskG9gfTCoKUA+ubA6GhA/yjA6mlA9GlA/KlA5mpA5+pA9ysA/ KsA4WtA5GxA5m2A5q2A5O6A5u6A6+6A7C6A/S7A8i+A+m+A8jAA9jCAwAA

You want your early minions to have lots of stats, not really just generate value. You'll get plenty of that with Galakrond, Dragonqueen, Zephrys, Lazul, Thoughtsteal, and Skeletal Dragon. You're going to be able to generate more value off those than all but the greediest decks. Your main priority should be figuring out how to stop Face Hunters and Demon Hunters with anything that costs less than 5 mana.

Some cards in your deck that I just don't agree with at all:

• Pyschic Conjurer - You don't need early value from low-cost minions. A 1/1 does nothing on the board, especially against Demon Hunters, and you'd much rather just have any other card Priest can shove into a deck.
• Evil Conscriptor - Lackeys don't get great use out of them in Priest, and they potentially ruin your Psychopomp. They also die for almost free to a lot of Hunters' turn 1 and 2 plays, like Dwarven Sharpshooter and Phase Stalker. They just don't contest well.
• Big Ol Whelp - This I could see an argument for if you also ran Dragonmaw Sentinel, but there's no dragon synergies in the deck. Especially in Priest mirror matches, it's almost a dead card because 90% of them will go to fatigue.
• Psyche Split - What are you hoping to copy with this card? Against aggro, it's basically useless unless you survive to turn 10 and plop it on a Waterbearer, but if you've made it to Turn 10, you're likely going to win anyway. Against another value or control deck, if you have a big minion stick to use it on, this is just a big over-commitment that necessitates a board wipe.
• Cabal Shadow Priest - The only deck I could see this being all that useful against is Enrage Warrior. It's too slow against everything else. I don't know the specific numbers, but I feel like I have a fantastic winrate against Warriors already and really don't need to boost that matchup at all.

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skullbone posted...

Yeah I don't really think Demon Hunter is a huge problem anymore. If it gets nerfed to oblivion then people are just going to play Dragon Hunter or Highlander Hunter and do the same thing.

Ehh...even if it gets nerfed a lot, it's still going to be a board centric aggro deck that's good against other board centric aggro decks.

Like...remember last year before AoO came out and Zoo was a reasonable deck? Now it's like "well Flame Imp on 1 isn't good anymore cause Demon Hunter just kills it".

Aldor Attendant:Old: [Cost 2] 2 Attack, 3 Health New: [Cost 1] 1 Attack, 3 Health.

This one is a really big deal; one of the things Pure Paladin was missing was a playable 1 drop, since they kind-of need to take board for early control having no removal spells until turn 4. Even just a vanilla 1 mana 1/3 would be good because it curves really well into Hand of A'dal.

Also, wild odd libram paladin is now potentially a thing, so that's interesting. You can also draw these with Crystology.

Torrent:Old: [Cost 5] New: [Cost 4].

Um, wow ok. So before it was a 5 mana assassinate that sometimes costs 2, and now it's a 4 mana assassinate that sometimes costs 1. That seems really good; Walk the Plank was playable at 4 mana.

That said, Torrent didn't fit into any Shaman decks currently (7% playrate in Shaman, doesn't even always make it into highlander decks) so I see where they're coming from with the buff.

Shattered Rumbler:Old: 4 Attack, 6 Health New: 5 Attack, 6 Health.

Ehh...still bad I think. The problem with Shattered Rumbler is that a symmetrical board clear is pretty situational, and you don't know a turn in advance if it's going to be the right situation. Also 3% inclusion rate in Shaman decks right now getting a +1 attack buff on a control card. Ooookaaaay. The only way this becomes relevant is if the buffs to Torrent spawn a new spell shaman archetype.

"The Lurker Below:Old: 6 Attack, 3 Health New: 6 Attack, 5 Health."

So...just a better fire elemental now? (Other than the inability to hit face?) OK. People do already play this card in controlling decks, and controlling decks like having 2 more health on the minions they already play, so sure.

Priestess of Fury:
Old: 6 Attack, 7 Health New: 6 Attack, 5 Health.

I think this will push DH towards cutting Priestess again, going with a lower curve. Some will still run it--doesn't look unplayable with 5 heath, but it does clog up outcasts.

Crimson Sigil Runner:
Old: 2 Attack, 1 Health New: 1 Attack, 1 Health.

Pretty happy about this change. It'll still be good in combo/control DH lists, but I think aggro DH cuts it now, and my big issue with DH is how many premium 0 mana and 1 mana plays they have giving them usually a better earlygame than every other earlygame deck. Like...if they play this on turn 1, draw a card with it, and then you play a Blazing Battlemage or Flame Imp? You just get 2-for-1'd. So...would you rather get 2-for-1'd or surrender board control. This one is a bigger deal to me than the Priestess of Fury change.

"Scavenger's Ingenuity:Old: Draw a Beast. Give it +3/+3. New: Draw a Beast. Give it +2/+2."

Eh, sure, close to the highest winrate card in most decks that run it, including Dragon Hunter (despite being a beast synergy card). Worth noting that this nerf will hurt hunter against DH a lot--DH struggles to clear really big minions, and now, either hunters will cut Ingenuity or the minion will be easier for DH to clear.

Shadowjeweler Hanar:
Old: 1 Attack, 5 Health New: 1 Attack, 4 Health.

Blackjack Stunner:
Old: Battlecry: If you control a Secret, return a minion to its owners hand. It costs (2) more. New: Battlecry: If you control a Secret, return a minion to its owners hand. It costs (1) more.

Personal preference I guess but I'd rather they hit Galakrond. "Secret Stealth Rogue" the deck that doesn't run the Galakrond package has like...a 40% winrate. These are strong cards and all that, but they happen once and then they're over. They're only a problem when Rogue has a million resources backing them up via Galakrond.

They are some of the highest winrate Rogue cards, though, so I can see why they were hit.

"Bloodboil Brute:Old: 6 Attack, 8 Health New: 5 Attack, 8 Health"

Definitely had a nerf coming. That said, Bloodboil Brute kills Priestess of Fury now even without a risky skipper combo, so I think the Warrior vs DH matchup may have gotten better rather than worse.

"Bloodsworn Mercenary:Old: 3 Attack, 3 Health New: 2 Attack, 2 Health."

Ehhh? Kinda surprised this one is getting hit way harder than Bloodboil Brute. I don't know if this is a card the deck can even afford to cut, since it wants it to combo with Kor Kron Elite, but man, maybe you go down to 1 copy?

Also a stealth nerf to the Teron Gorefiend version of the deck. Copying Teron was fun, objectively by the statistics Teron probably wasn't worth running, but I loved getting big Terons and copying them.

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MrSmartGuy posted...

Psychic Conjurer

Part of the THIEF package, really. I enjoy hitting people with their own things. Probably the only one I will hard keep.

Evil Conscriptor

Just an early game card, and lackeys can help respond to early boards.

Big Ol Whelp

This one is basically just filler/cycle and could be easily replaced.

Psyche Split

VeilWeaver, waterbearer, and fellow humans have all felt good to hit. Also I did win a game copying one of their 4/9 taunts, then deathing their now 5 attack taunt. I do agree it is clunky at times though.

Cabal Shadow Priest

Stealing a Hanar or phase stalker has resulted in instant wins for me so far. Plus, THIEF. Will probably keep this one of the theme too.

The other three feel fine to remove though.

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Justifying some of the cards in my list that aren't in yours:

• Imprisoned cards - I really like the Imprisoned cards in Priest, especially the Vilefiend, since it synergizes well with Apotheosis. They'd be bad topdecks in any other class, but with Priest, a lot of your late turns in value matchups are focused on getting rid of your 10th card in hand so you can use your Galakrond Hero Power. Topdecking a 1 or 2 mana minion that does nothing is perfectly fine, and maybe even helpful, just so you have room to generate more value. If you have them in your starting hand, they're fantastic.
• Mo'arg Artificer/Wild Pyromancer - I discussed this earlier, but at least one of these cards is 100% necessary to stand a chance against Spell Druid. Pyro has good synergy with all your spells, but especially Apotheosis, Mo'arg with Holy Smite, Breath of the Infinite, and Holy Nova, and SUPER synergy with Penance. I wouldn't necessarily recommend putting both in, but definitely pick one.
• High Priest Amet - I wouldn't say craft him because he's definitely not necessary. I really only have him in my deck because he's a 4-mana 2/7, which is outstanding against aggro. He also has pseudo-taunt, despite having little-to-no synergy with the rest of the deck. Your opponent doesn't know that, so a lot of the time he's basically just 4-mana heal for 7 and deal 2 damage to a few things, which is even better than Holy Nova. Also, in the end-game, you generate a lot of bad 2/1's and 2/3's with your hero power, and now they suddenly have a lot of survivability and are really annoying for opponents to deal with.
• Soul Mirror - It's a better Lightbomb, and Lightbomb is one of the best AoE's the game has ever seen. If you plan on playing Priest in the forseeable future, you need to craft this card. It's probably the deck's best card, maybe even better than Zephrys. You'd think it would be too slow against Demon Hunters, but there isn't a single minion in Demon Hunter that survives Soul Mirror. I'm actually kind of sad about the Priestess of Fury nerf, because it means I won't get anymore 6/1's that shoot 6 missiles anymore. Anyway, yeah, it's 100% core to the deck functioning.

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I think Psychic Conjurer is fine on paper. Priest Babbling Book.

Obviously not in a deck focused on resurrect effects, but I think the power level of the card is fine.

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If you want a 1-mana play to steal a card, I'm honestly not convinced Mind Vision isn't better. It has the potential to hit cards you know are in your opponent's hand, like 0-mana dragons or their Galakrond. You also have the bonus of knowing a card in their hand for potential plays in the future. Again, a 1/1 accomplishes so very little in Priest it might as well not exist.

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Hmmmm.

Conjurer -> Mind Vision
Conscripter -> Imprisoned Vilefiend
Whelp -> Pyro
Split -> Soul Mirror

I think I'll start there.

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I was thinking more on it, and I think having a 1/1 on board is actively detrimental in a few matchups.
It gives Rogues things to Seal Fate and Backstab to start combos at the start of a game (another reason I like early-game Imprisoned minions).
It gives Warriors things to Rush into and activate Battle Rage for free.
It gives Hunters tiny opponent minions to proc their Pack Tactics (though an argument against this is that it's one more tiny thing they might not be able to ignore if they have a Freezing Trap up, but most Hunters don't run that anymore).
And then they might as well not exist against Demon Hunters. The most you could hope for with one is that they may have to forego using Sigil Runner on Turn 1 in response, or have to waste the coin Hero Powering it.

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Slightly concerned my Face Hunter deck may not be as effective in Platinum as it has been at the previous ranks. I'm 12-11 since being in the rank so far (Rank 9 / 3 Stars) but for sure some of my wins have been against shitty players making obvious misplays (how do so many bad players get to this rank?). It's amazing how many people play cards in the very obvious wrong order, usually the more aggro orientated decks.

Does anyone has the HSReplay premium to tell me how Face Hunter does at Diamond? Or is there another site that tells you winrates / meta above Diamond as HSReplay seems to put it behind a paywall.

Like I could grind up at ~50% winrate but obviously will take quite some time.

Thieflander 1.1 is online and has gone 3-1 so far.

Including a 36 turn game against a Galakrond Priest that I won!

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Pulled off the fabled Brann + Golden Murozond combo just now and got 2/3 of my 6 drops were Kalecgos. That one felt good

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I was sold on the argument that you can target stuff you know is in hand, like buffed Zixor or Galakrond and whatnot. Plus since I added Pyro, it's also a cheap source of 1 to all.

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FFDragon posted...

I was sold on the argument that you can target stuff you know is in hand, like buffed Zixor or Galakrond and whatnot. Plus since I added Pyro, it's also a cheap source of 1 to all.

Just as long as you remember to save mind vision until after they use the coin it's fine.

I think on turn 1 the 1/1 is clearly better, since it never gives coin, and can maybe threaten to trade with a 2/1. But if you don't mind holding it in hand for later, then yeah, it's a handbuff/handdiscount meta, so mind vision makes sense.

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Yeah dodging coin is the only real downside, I think. But I also like the symmetry of 2 from the deck (Thoughtsteal), 2 from the hand (Lazul/Mind Vision) and 2 from the board (Shadow Priest/Shadow Madness) for THIEF.

Very heavily debating on Murazond right now, but I don't think I need it.

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Just had a tilting loss to a Mage because he got Sandhoof Waterbearer off Apexis Blast.

I actually don't mind taking a coin off my opponent. I've used Lazul and taken a coin in the early game twice before. It really helps to curve into your higher impact 5- and 6-drops. If Mind Vision gives you a Coin, that's still a perfectly fine result. You're spending 1-mana now when you weren't gonna use it anyway into 1-mana later for a bigger swing turn later.

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Lost 6 out of 7 matches but managed to follow it up with 6 wins in a row. Sadly my win streak just ended to another aggro deck that beat me by a turn. So now instead of being 2 wins away from the next floor I'm back to being 4 wins away (Rank 7 / 2 Stars). 22-20 since the last floor so far.

After tilting myself to the tune of around -450 a few days back, I'm back to where I left off. Didn't help that one of the games apparently had some kind of connection problems or something as a few turns in we were already down to four players, and that seems like too many people to quit so early because of they had bad starts or something.

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Welp I done did it again


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Yay

also you are a few thousand legend points higher than me too, Im bad at making control warlock work

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Pulled the trigger on Runeterra and played for a few hours doing all of the tutorials. I feel like there are more complicated turns in the tutorials than 95% of what you see in Hearthstone.

I'd recommend everyone to give it a try if you're getting bored with Hearthstone. Monetization also seems to be way better since you can just buy the cards you want and card packs don't exist.

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Just had a Warrior bad manners me and I was hoping so much for it to backfire on him (largely because I was on a win streak too). Noticed he had lethal next turn so showed him I was 1 HP on lethal myself and ended turn to let him do whatever combo he had. He left me with 1 HP too and armored up to get effective 3 HP. I had a ton of cards left in my deck that would have caused that to backfire and leave me with lethal (I didn't count but for sure it was above 50%). Sadly I did not draw a card I needed.

I never play on mobile usually, but I was out today and had to wait a while so I booted up a BG even though I know that's a terrible idea.

But then got first place for the first time this expansion with a mediocre dragon build.

"okay"


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Just won a dragon mirror matchup in battlegrounds where my opponent had two Kalecgos to my one, as well as better dragons overall, by selling one of my giant dragons and replacing it with a non-buffed Cave Hydra. Little guy turned something like a 25 damage loss the round before into a 25 damage win.

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Because It removed 3x divine shields?

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Yep.

Edit: Similar thing happened a few days ago and I bought the 1/3 taunt to clear the divine shields, except I forgot Nadina wouldn't die when it attacked into it. It did, however clear all of my own divine shields because my Nadina attacked first. Should have thought that one through a little more.

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Camden posted...

Yep.

Edit: Similar thing happened a few days ago and I bought the 1/3 taunt to clear the divine shields, except I forgot Nadina wouldn't die when it attacked into it. It did, however clear all of my own divine shields because my Nadina attacked first. Should have thought that one through a little more.

Righteous Protector is probably better for that kind of mirror. Makes sure Nadina doesn't die, without disrupting your divine shields.

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Oh hey, relevant video to what we were discussing the other day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AimF4_wpp1U

They even spend a few minutes discussing the make-up of their two decks; which cards are good and which are not as useful. Personally, I don't think weapon removal is all that important. I tend to be contesting their board around turn 5, and they usually spend 3 or even all 4 of their attacks on minions the turn they play the Warglaives, but he's the world champion and I'm not.

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The 8 cards below will be eligible for a full dust refund until June 1.

Priestess of Fury:
Old: 6 Attack, 7 Health New: 6 Attack, 5 Health.

Crimson Sigil Runner:
Old: 2 Attack, 1 Health New: 1 Attack, 1 Health.

Scavenger's Ingenuity:
Old: Draw a Beast. Give it +3/+3. New: Draw a Beast. Give it +2/+2.

Shadowjeweler Hanar:
Old: 1 Attack, 5 Health New: 1 Attack, 4 Health.

Blackjack Stunner:
Old: Battlecry: If you control a Secret, return a minion to its owners hand. It costs (2) more. New: Battlecry: If you control a Secret, return a minion to its owners hand. It costs (1) more.

Imprisoned Scrap Imp
:
Old: Dormant for 2 turns. When this awakens, give all minions in your hand +2/+2. New: Dormant for 2 turns. When this awakens, give all minions in your hand +2/+1.

Bloodboil Brute:
Old: 6 Attack, 8 Health New: 5 Attack, 8 Health.

Bloodsworn Mercenary:
Old: 3 Attack, 3 Health New: 2 Attack, 2 Health.

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That should be going live a little bit later today.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't we dust the commons/rares in the group and be guaranteed to get those same cards if we open more packs provided we already have 2 copies of each common and rare? If so I'm going to get a lot of dust before the end of the month =P

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Forceful_Dragon posted...

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't we dust the commons/rares in the group and be guaranteed to get those same cards if we open more packs provided we already have 2 copies of each common and rare? If so I'm going to get a lot of dust before the end of the month =P

Once you collect it once it considers the card "acquired" even if you dust it so no you can't do that.

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darn =P

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If I am playing Rafaam and there is an AFKay in the lobby i WILL run into her on round 2 and it WILL fuck up my normal rafaam playstyle.

These are simply facts. I need to plot out a play order for VS AFKay on 2 because it happens too damn much for me to try and figure it out on the fly each time.

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Just level on 2 if you're against AFK and double buy + hero power on 7 gold instead of leveling to 3.

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Rafaam should level on turn 2 a lot more than people do.

Like, if on turn 2 you find youself with a micro machine and a mecharoo, you probably should have levelled.

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I wish I could just get to the next rank floor so I could put time into battlegrounds again but every time I get close-ish (3 stars away), it yo-yos me and gives me bad matchups.

Feels like I have just bounced up and down between 7 3/3 and 8 2/3 for ages now. When I do reach the rank floor, I'm probably going to be close to .500 for these 5 ranks or maybe even below it.

the gold works out perfectly to level on 6 gold and 7 gold and your chance of hitting a triple on a 1 star unit is fairly high at that point. Throw in the fact that you will almost certainly NOT drop a round during that stretch and you are in great shape. I am very hard pressed to want to level on 4gold when you consider all that.

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I feel it's still worth it to hero power, it's just a reasonable tempo tool, especially if your opponent has a token character (if you hit it and maybe a couple others it's good tempo)

I actually like going 2/3/4 on 6/7/8 with Rafaam, you can get reasonable tempo pretty quickly if you steal the right stuff. Yogg's another one that's a good power level character.

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Well, after disenchanting all those cards I have...two decks playable in standard (Libram Paladin and an old deck with I think no cards from the new expansion).

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Ugh, this is infuriating. Finally get to the point where I am about to win streak. App glitches out after I play a card and won't let me play anything else. Then won't let me back into the match when I try to reconnect.

So 3 game swing. Back down to 7 1/3 instead of 6 1/3 on a win streak.

EDIT: And next match is a Warrior who my deck may as well be an autoloss against.
EDIT2: I beat the Warrior at least so if I win this next game I'll be pissed as that would have put me at rank floor
EDIT3: I won the next match so would have been at rank floor (I know I wouldn't have gotten the same opponents). Ugh.

Also, how on earth has renew not been nerfed?

you get cards in my deck out of your mouth

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I just don't see how it is remotely balanced. Like it should either be more mana (even at 2 it seems pretty damn good) or it should have the effect reduced (add a random priest spell instead of discover?)

Heal 3 is worth about .5 mana and discover a card is worth about 1 mana so it's not too ridiculous. Limiting to spells might be another .5 mana?

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