Current Events > Do you agree with Idaho banning trans-atheletes?

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/sports/transgender-idaho-ban-sports.html

This is the biggest hot topic on the subject as of late. Do you agree that gender testing needs to be done in order to conduct fair play as Idaho suggests? Do they really have an "advantage" or is it just transphobic nonsense being projected?

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They have an advantage. They should have their own league. I do not think I am being transphobic when I say this.

It's flat out not fair.
Genetically men are faster and stronger than women. You're tilting the field severely by letting transgender athletes participate in women's sports.

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https://youtu.be/URz-RYEOaig

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This article argues heavily on the contrary to the votes of this poll. If you agree, might you give this a read?

https://www.menshealth.com/uk/fitness/a26798247/trans-athletes-sporting-performance/

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AirFresh posted...

This article argues heavily on the contrary to the votes of this poll. If you agree, might you give this a read?

https://www.menshealth.com/uk/fitness/a26798247/trans-athletes-sporting-performance/

Okay so Im reading this article. But I am like.. embarrassed at how Im not understand by the terms Transgender men and transgender women like Im really not trying to be funny or anything. Its confusing to read.

posting links you have to subscribe to should be a moddable offense at this point.
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MICHALECOLE posted...

Okay so Im reading this article. But I am like.. embarrassed at how Im not understand by the terms Transgender men and transgender women like Im really not trying to be funny or anything. Its confusing to read.

They transitioned into that gender. So a trans-male used to be a girl and vice versa.

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Not my fight so don't really care

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This many Yes votes is surprising.

BawdySausage posted...

This many Yes votes is surprising.

Nah

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645AR posted...

posting links you have to subscribe to should be a moddable offense at this point.

agree

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Im torn

I think is very much is an advantage, but I say let them and then people will see how bad it is for the cis women and they can battle it out. I think they should get the thoughts on the women sports and let them deal with it.

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I think gender based divisions in sports is kind of dumb to begin with. I would prefer it be weight classes like they have in MMA for instance, but it doesn't need to be weight per se. It could be based on bone density, or androgens, or any number of criteria. The gender one is pretty bad, because all of the advantages that are associated with males are on a spectrum and a male isn't guaranteed to have high levels of testosterone, a larger heart, bigger lungs, denser bones, more muscle mass, etc.

The thing with athletics is they are inherently unfair and a form of social Darwinism in terms of success. You can't just say "oh this athlete trained hard and that's why they're the best", it's very disingenuous, because we know certain genetic advantages are required, because no pro-athletes aren't training very hard. People might pull out exceptions in basketball like Spud Webb, and say short people can compete too, genetics doesn't matter! Ignoring that this individual despite being exceptionally short by professional basketball standards, was only slightly below average height.

You can't make sports fair, because they are unfair by nature, and the whole gender division is just an arbitrary attempt at fairness. It's no different than having a short league for basketball or weight divisions for fighting.

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It's a nuanced issue and something we have to figure out. After all, there's a difference between gender and sex. But if someone goes through puberty as a male and perhaps is pretty good competing in the male competitions but not quite at the top, its pretty problematic for them to just decide to identify as female. Even undergoing hormones after puberty idk if that's enough. It's just a hard issue to tackle. I honestly don't blame them for banning it tbh.
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Transwomen should compete with each other instead of women. They have too much of an advantage and it's not fair to women athletes.

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All sports should remove all classes/divisions and allow the cream to rise to the top. I want to see Tee Ballers vs Major League Pros and girls in wheelchairs vs 7'6" NBA All stars with a 6 foot vertical leap.

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ssjevot posted...

I think gender based divisions in sports is kind of dumb to begin with. I would prefer it be weight classes like they have in MMA for instance, but it doesn't need to be weight per se. It could be based on bone density, or androgens, or any number of criteria. The gender one is pretty bad, because all of the advantages that are associated with males are on a spectrum and a male isn't guaranteed to have high levels of testosterone, a larger heart, bigger lungs, denser bones, more muscle mass, etc.

The thing with athletics is they are inherently unfair and a form of social Darwinism in terms of success. You can't just say "oh this athlete trained hard and that's why they're the best", it's very disingenuous, because we know certain genetic advantages are required, because no pro-athletes aren't training very hard. People might pull out exceptions in basketball like Spud Webb, and say short people can compete too, genetics doesn't matter! Ignoring that this individual despite being exceptionally short by professional basketball standards, was only slightly below average height.

You can't make sports fair, because they are unfair by nature, and the whole gender division is just an arbitrary attempt at fairness. It's no different than having a short league for basketball or weight divisions for fighting.

Have you ever...played a sport dude?

Second question have you ever been outside ?

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Competing against men?

Sure why not

Women? No
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im not 13 posted...

Have you ever...played a sport dude?

Second question have you ever been outside ?

If you disagree, state your point, dont just get mad and look like an ass.

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Jerry_Hellyeah posted...

im not 13 posted...

Have you ever...played a sport dude?

Second question have you ever been outside ?

If you disagree, state your point, dont just get mad and look like an ass.

Look at the olympics. Katie Ledecky is the greatest female swimmer to ever live and she wouldnt have even qualified for the final heats if she competed with the men.
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im not 13 posted...

Have you ever...played a sport dude?

Second question have you ever been outside ?

I ran track in high school (short distance and long jump) and played basketball. I've played many other sports, but not at a competitive level. I'm not really sure what about my post made you reach those conclusions though.

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WaterLink posted...

Look at the olympics. Katie Ledecky is the greatest female swimmer to ever live and she wouldnt have even qualified for the final heats if she competed with the men.

What in my post ever suggested I thought that would be the case? They should reach the opposite conclusion if anything. I'm arguing natural advantages are more important than training at the highest level of competition in my post.

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ssjevot posted...

What in my post ever suggested I thought that would be the case?

ssjevot posted...

I think gender based divisions in sports is kind of dumb to begin with.

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So you just didn't read my post where I explain why? You probably also didn't read the original article. If you had you would know an XX female, born female, has been barred from competition for having naturally high levels of testosterone. Those are the types of things I was talking about in my post.

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yes, those who can give birth and those who cant should not compete in the same sport

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This is what happens when you base things on if some people might be offended or not

Logically, biological males and biological women should not be competing in the same sport based on athleticism. A mens basketball team will shit on a womens basketball team 9 times out of 10 just due the difference in power, speed, and height. That is undeniable fact. If you say you feel like a woman, tough luck, you are still biologically a man, you don't just lose all your muscle mass and height because you feel like a woman.

Give trans people their own divisions, so that way it is a fair playing field

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MT_TRAEH posted...

yes, those who can give birth and those who cant should not compete in the same sport

Wait so if a woman can't give birth for medical reasons she should be forced to compete against men?

lolwut?
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UnfairRepresent posted...

Wait so if a woman can't give birth for medical reasons she should be forced to compete against men?

lolwut?

don't play dumb, we both know what he means, he just has to say it that way or else he'll get modded

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ssjevot posted...

The thing with athletics is they are inherently unfair and a form of social Darwinism in terms of success.

And here's my belief.

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Well I am glad someone understood what I was trying to say. At least two people somehow thought I was trying to say there are no gender differences in sports.

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AirFresh posted...

Do they really have an "advantage"

The number of womens records being smashed by trans athletes says Yes they do.
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Crazyman93 posted...

The number of womens records being smashed by trans athletes says Yes they do.

Basic human biology says yes they do
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Crazyman93 posted...

The number of womens records being smashed by trans athletes says Yes they do.

I'm honestly curious.

What is that number?

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AirFresh posted...

This article argues heavily on the contrary to the votes of this poll. If you agree, might you give this a read?

https://www.menshealth.com/uk/fitness/a26798247/trans-athletes-sporting-performance/

I don't have an issue with trans athletes competing in their new gender category but I didn't find this argument compelling. At least to me it really more supports what @ssjevot is saying

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To elaborate, the argument it makes boils down to it's hard to show a specific advantage that being male gives universally across men and many women can outcompete many men, sometimes even naturally exceeding the arbitrary threshold we set for stuff like testosterone levels for trans athletes.

But it's hard for me to understand how you can make that argument in good faith and not see that its an argument against gendered competition overall

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I dont agree with banning them. They should have their own league and not compete in the existing male/female leagues. It should probably even be split up into mtf and ftm leagues

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I'm surprised the trans athletes themselves dont feel bad about joining the women's league and crushing everyone a third their size

Are they more upset they're not being treated as women or more upset they're not allowed to dominate in a sport they were previously just mediocre at?

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Balrog0 posted...

To elaborate, the argument it makes boils down to it's hard to show a specific advantage that being male gives universally across men and many women can outcompete many men, sometimes even naturally exceeding the arbitrary threshold we set for stuff like testosterone levels for trans athletes.

But it's hard for me to understand how you can make that argument in good faith and not see that its an argument against gendered competition overall

Yeah, I thought I would be a fringe view here, but it's really kind of what the logical conclusion is to a lot of these arguments.

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Colorahdo posted...

I'm surprised the trans athletes themselves dont feel bad about joining the women's league and crushing everyone a third their size

Are they more upset they're not being treated as women or more upset they're not allowed to dominate in a sport they were previously just mediocre at?

The general argument I have seen argues "Is it fair that biologically bigger women deserve to compete?"

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Unless the sports is non-physical, it's ok to ban trans from female sports. Some trans have more muscles than females. It would be an unfair advantage, especially if it's focused on body muscle mass.

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Like they bring up left handedness. That's useful because not as many people are left handed, meaning lefties get more practice against righties than the opposite. That's true across competitive sports.

But that's an interesting thing to bring up because the advantage is contextual not inherent. If there were more lefties than righties being right handed would be useful.

I'm not sure how to link this up to the current argument but it's an interesting wrinkle

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Its weird seeing people without the slightest clue of sports pretending to know everything about sports.

ssjevot posted...

I think gender based divisions in sports is kind of dumb to begin with. I would prefer it be weight classes like

Like this person for example. A for effort because you typed a bunch but maybe leave sports talk to people who have played sports.

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CrazyandLazy posted...

Unless the sports is non-physical, it's ok to ban trans from female sports. Some trans have more muscles than females. It would be an unfair advantage, especially if it's focused on body muscle mass.

Chess, for example, has just as large a gender disparity as the top level as many physical sports. Competitive shooting is similar I believe, but not an expert on that sport.

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gatorsPENSbucs posted...

Like this person for example. A for effort because you typed a bunch but maybe leave sports talk to people who have played sports.

Did you actually read my post? Going to assume you didn't, as that has been the case so far with everyone who comments that I haven't played sports for some reason.

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ssjevot posted...

Did you actually read my post? Going to assume you didn't, as that has been the case so far with everyone who comments that I haven't played sports for some reason.

Oh I read it and plenty of times was wondering why this person who hasnt played sports is trying to talk like they have.

You did track, thats awesome good for you. You didnt play sports.

Nice name drop with Spud Webb too, Im guessing you just googled small athlete and went with him.

Wanting sports done by weight ...... I cant even begin to say how awful and just terrible that would be and is probably one of the worst suggestions for sports ever.

....chess and competitive shooting ..... what is going on here

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gatorsPENSbucs posted...

Wanting sports done by weight ...... I cant even begin to say how awful and just terrible that would be and is probably one of the worst suggestions for sports ever.

All of the best sports already are done by weight champ

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I played basketball too, but if you're just going to ignore that and make up some shit about me not knowing who Spud Webb is, then this isn't going to work. That you think I want sports done by weight also shows you didn't read my post. You should consider actually reading it, because if you think that's what I meant you didn't.

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ssjevot posted...

I would prefer it be weight classes

Alright so we got this ....

ssjevot posted...

It could be based on bone density, or androgens, or any number of criteria.

Lol okay

ssjevot posted...

The thing with athletics is they are inherently unfair and a form of social Darwinism in terms of success. You can't just say "oh this athlete trained hard and that's why they're the best"

More funny stuff from you

ssjevot posted...

You can't make sports fair, because they are unfair by nature, and the whole gender division is just an arbitrary attempt at fairness.

Your entire post reads like you didnt play sports, or you werent good so you tried to come up with some nonsense to try to make yourself feel better.

You can keep telling the people that have played sports to reread what you wrote or whatever you want to say, but end of the day your entire post was garbage and Im guessing the people agreeing with you are either agreeing because they dont like sports or they just care about the subject and not the slightest care about sports.


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