Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 278: Tulsi Gets a Delegate Edition

(+) Yeah! (+)

Dancedreamer posted...

Because Bloomberg had more ads than he has dollars? I mean if you just look at Bloombergs ads and That's all you knew about him, he'd make a decent candidate.

Yeah, obviously older black voters are uniquely stupid and therefore less able to pick candidates who match their views compared to normal voters. It's incredibly racist to see anyone trying to claim the voting patterns of older black are a result of their political beliefs rather than their inferior intelligence.
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TheRock1525 posted...

More than 4x as many older black voters voted for the racist billionaire mayor who was a Republican not too long ago as they did the socialist.

The man who created stop and frisk got 26% of the older black vote to Sanders' 7%.

Why do you think that is?

It's worth noting that this differs wildly between regions.

https://twitter.com/DrTedJ/status/1235205752018612224?s=19

It's still worth questioning why Bernie has such a weakness with demographic in the south, given that these are the people turning up to vote, but the answer is honestly pretty complicated.

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I hope Warren being the last to drop out will give Bernie more momentum should she endorse him, a comeback narrative perhaps.

The sad fact is that the Democratic Party is a right wing party, just one that is liberal enough to get progressives to vote for them as a shield from the Republican party who are a far right party, despite people not wanting to say it. That is just how much America is slanted to the right compared to the global standard. As a non-American it always struck me as odd that the likes of Biden and Bloomberg get to be called moderates when to look at them, theres nothing moderate about them. Bidens nuttier than the nutters in the Tory party and Bloomberg is basically American Berlusconi. Sad...

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It is far too much wishful thinking to beleive Warren would endorse Bernie.

So uh, guys

Am I going crazy or do projections point at a Bernie win if the current results hold?

Like...look at this vs the 2016 primaries. Hillary won that 55-43 and she nearly doubled Bernie in TX and won Cali. Is there a reason Centrist Voltron would outdo HRC given that context?

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The difference is that Hillary was also a Centrist and also had the full backing of the DNC. She was rigged to win rather than rigged to lose.

Still don't get how anything was rigged here.

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TheRock1525 posted...

Still don't get how anything was rigged here.

True story, they ran out of stickers at my location. Clearly a ploy to thwart voters by spreading the news of sticker shortage among the common folk.

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Hillary was hated *much* more than Biden is

helps that Biden's been alongside a bunch more slimeballs so he doesn't look monumentally evil (unless you're my dad)

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Yeah I think 2016 Bernie benefitted a lot from Not Being Hillary. Gonna need to see the xstats but Biden just looks stronger.

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Xeybozn posted...

Yeah, obviously older black voters are uniquely stupid and therefore less able to pick candidates who match their views compared to normal voters. It's incredibly racist to see anyone trying to claim the voting patterns of older black are a result of their political beliefs rather than their inferior intelligence.

You know what's incredibly racist? Thinking this only applies to black voters for some reason. It doesn't. It applies to all voters.

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TheRock1525 posted...

Still don't get how anything was rigged here.

I don't think anything was rigged. Hell, I don't even think anything was truly shady - Pete and Klob fell in line so quickly that it seemed obvious they were contacted by the DNC/Biden campaign and offered cushy positions in exchange for quick compliance. They didn't even try to hide that and they played by the rules, so I'll never cry conspiracy or anything.

I do think that based on the way the last ~5 days have played out, Democratic Party leadership clearly would have preferred four more years of Trump versus a Sanders presidency. Not even that surprising, but undeniably disappointing.

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CaptainOfCrush posted...

I do think that based on the way the last ~5 days have played out, Democratic Party leadership clearly would have preferred four more years of Trump versus a Sanders presidency. Not even that surprising, but undeniably disappointing.

now do this for the actual voters who voted biden

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CaptainOfCrush posted...

I don't think anything was rigged. Hell, I don't even think anything was truly shady - Pete and Klob fell in line so quickly that it seemed obvious they were contacted by the DNC/Biden campaign and offered cushy positions in exchange for quick compliance. They didn't even try to hide that and they played by the rules, so I'll never cry conspiracy or anything.

I do think that based on the way the last ~5 days have played out, Democratic Party leadership clearly would have preferred four more years of Trump versus a Sanders presidency. Not even that surprising, but undeniably disappointing.

Or they just preferred Biden to Bernie and thought he had a better shot at beating Trump.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

now do this for the actual voters who voted biden

They too also want 4 more years of Trump.

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KanzarisKelshen posted...

So uh, guys

Am I going crazy or do projections point at a Bernie win if the current results hold?

Like...look at this vs the 2016 primaries. Hillary won that 55-43 and she nearly doubled Bernie in TX and won Cali. Is there a reason Centrist Voltron would outdo HRC given that context?

Biden has already beaten Sanders in multiple states he won in 2016 (some that he won fairly big). It isnt going to be that easy to compare by only looking at CA and TX.

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the simplest fact to come out of yesterday is that the youth voter revolution is not happening

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They'd rather post okay boomer on twitter than KO boomers on the ballot box.

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The mass closing of several hundred polling sites is just as much designed for crushing the youth vote as it is for crushing the minority vote. Young people are inherently much more cautious of whether they will be able to wait in line for 3-7 hours to cast a vote.

CelesMyUserName posted...

the simplest fact to come out of yesterday is that the youth voter revolution is not happening

The old black voter and suburban white liberal mom one might be, though!

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With Bloomberg out, Warren staying in virtually hands the nomination to Biden.

On the flip side, old people don't have shit to do.

MichelBollinger posted...

Young people are inherently much more cautious of whether they will be able to wait in line for 3-7 hours to cast a vote.

It's not much of a revolution if they're not showing up because "the lines are too long."

Like, these excuses just don't really fly. If people decided not to vote because they were discouraged by Biden being the DNC Chosen One, or if they decided not to vote because lines were long, then they weren't in it for a revolution. They were fair weather fans.

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MichelBollinger posted...

The mass closing of several hundred polling sites is just as much designed for crushing the youth vote as it is for crushing the minority vote. Young people are inherently much more cautious of whether they will be able to wait in line for 3-7 hours to cast a vote.

This is legit a great point. It is way harder for younger people to vote even if they wanted to.

However...that just makes the risk of relying on their turnout even worse.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Yeah I think 2016 Bernie benefitted a lot from Not Being Hillary. Gonna need to see the xstats but Biden just looks stronger.

He does not. If you want x-stats in a soundbyte, Hillary ran up a 60 point difference in TX. Biden got 6 points. Find me a single instance in our contests where doing an order of magnitude worse = stronger?

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KanzarisKelshen posted...

He does not. If you want x-stats in a soundbyte, Hillary ran up a 60 point difference in TX. Biden got 6 points. Find me a single instance in our contests where doing an order of magnitude worse = stronger?

Right but this was a 4-way and 2016 was a 2-way

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HashtagSEP posted...

It's not much of a revolution if they're not showing up because "the lines are too long."

Like, these excuses just don't really fly. If people decided not to vote because they were discouraged by Biden being the DNC Chosen One, or if they decided not to vote because lines were long, then they weren't in it for a revolution. They were fair weather fans.

"I don't wanna wait in line" is not the same as "I don't want to risk my job by skipping/calling out to vote in a market that is flooded with other applicants", made all the more extreme as a result of much of Bernie's base being underprivileged people and those with lower job security.

Sorry, but it ABSOLUTELY FLYS.

i lasted 6 minutes in the lunch room today

ho-lee fuck the vitriol

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I feel like the DNC should start doing primary voting that lasts a week instead of one day. Much like we should do with the election!

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MichelBollinger posted...

"I don't wanna wait in line" is not the same as "I don't want to risk my job by skipping/calling out to vote in a market that is flooded with other applicants", made all the more extreme as a result of much of Bernie's base being underprivileged people and those with lower job security.

Sorry, but it ABSOLUTELY FLYS.

If you're passionate about it, you plan ahead. Can't vote after work? Schedule a vacation/sick day ahead of time. Most jobs will not fire you for taking time off to go vote, especially if you don't just spring it on them out of nowhere. This is not some problem that only exists to young people, and framing it like that is pretty dishonest. Other people showed up. It's telling about those that didn't.

You don't just pull up to Burger King, order a Revolution, and ask them to hold the inconvenience.

A LOT of young people just didn't show.

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Dancedreamer posted...

I feel like the DNC should start doing primary voting that lasts a week instead of one day. Much like we should do with the election!

thats an idea ive never heard before and i actually like it at first glance. what are the drawbacks?

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HashtagSEP posted...

If you're passionate about it, you plan ahead. Can't vote after work? Schedule a vacation/sick day ahead of time. Most jobs will not fire you for taking time off to go vote, especially if you don't just spring it on them out of nowhere. This is not some problem that only exists to young people, and framing it like that is pretty dishonest. Other people showed up. It's telling about those that didn't.

You don't just pull up to Burger King, order a Revolution, and ask them to hold the inconvenience.

A LOT of young people just didn't show.

yeah ive never had issues with my jobs letting me or others vote. but ive also always worked "good jobs" and the youth these days work more service oriented jobs where I can see that being more of an issue

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iiaattgg posted...

thats an idea ive never heard before and i actually like it at first glance. what are the drawbacks?

Campaigns can't afford to compete in all 50 states simultaneously.

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iiaattgg posted...

thats an idea ive never heard before and i actually like it at first glance. what are the drawbacks?

For the public? Nothing.

It doesn't let DNC control the narrative though so it can't happen.

HashtagSEP posted...

If you're passionate about it, you plan ahead. Can't vote after work? Schedule a vacation/sick day ahead of time. Most jobs will not fire you for taking time off to go vote, especially if you don't just spring it on them out of nowhere.

Yeah you have absolutely no idea how many jobs this doesn't fly for.

My roomate has worked at Starbucks for over 5 years and right now they are not allotting any paid time off for any reason other than medical in our region.

And before you ask they do not allow scheduke shifting either, if he takes an unpaid day off he cannot come in to work it another day.

iiaattgg posted...

yeah ive never had issues with my jobs letting me or others vote. but ive also always worked "good jobs" and the youth these days work more service oriented jobs where I can see that being more of an issue

While this is true, wasn't there also early voting in many of these states?

Like, I understand stuff can happen to make it difficult, but I'm not sure the logical answer is that a majority of this revolution that was supposed to hit just found it absolutely impossible to vote.

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Candidate 1: Ill get dark money out of politics and instead rely on a ton of cash from small donors and a true grassroots organization to propel me forward.

Candidate 2: Ill spend the most money ever to swarm every state with as many ads as possible and Ill purchase the best ground team money can possibly buy.

Candidate 3: Ill use NO money and NO organization and wait what state are we in again.

Voters: Id like to hear more from candidate 3 please.

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HashtagSEP posted...

If you're passionate about it, you plan ahead. Can't vote after work? Schedule a vacation/sick day ahead of time. Most jobs will not fire you for taking time off to go vote, especially if you don't just spring it on them out of nowhere. This is not some problem that only exists to young people, and framing it like that is pretty dishonest. Other people showed up. It's telling about those that didn't.

You don't just pull up to Burger King, order a Revolution, and ask them to hold the inconvenience.

A LOT of young people just didn't show.

I'm sure Bernie die-hards do this, based on how dramatically young people demos support him, but there are still most likely a ton of young people that don't have the time, energy, or resources (transport, voter id, etc) to pay attention to politics or vote. If you're working a minimum wage job or two you're not looking to rock the boat.

And FWIW Bernie's campaign does do a lot of outreach for this kind of thing, but it still isn't nearly enough.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Right but this was a 4-way and 2016 was a 2-way

Irrelevant. Link still did Link things in 4ways. Give Biden a Draven split on both also-rans (2:1) and he still doesn't do what Hillary did. Empirically, the numbers don't back it up. Does the eyeball test of not winning a primary in 30 years back it up to at least give you something to work with?

Put it this way: Bernie just has to win NY and the shit he did in '16 and locks up the majority. Are you certain he can't do that with AOC stumping for him?

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HashtagSEP posted...

While this is true, wasn't there also early voting in many of these states?

Like, I understand stuff can happen to make it difficult, but I'm not sure the logical answer is that a majority of this revolution that was supposed to hit just found it absolutely impossible to vote.

There is but outreach and education are key here. I lived in Texas since 2013 and, as a member of that coveted 18-30 demo, didn't know it had such a robust early voting system until Beto's campaign spread awareness in 2018.

Our election system is shit!

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

I'm sure Bernie die-hards do this, based on how dramatically young people demos support him, but there are still most likely a ton of young people that don't have the time, energy, or resources (transport, voter id, etc) to pay attention to politics or vote. If you're working a minimum wage job or two you're not looking to rock the boat.

And FWIW Bernie's campaign does do a lot of outreach for this kind of thing, but it still isn't nearly enough.

Right, but then that's an issue that extends to the general election as well. If they couldn't find the time/energy/whatever to vote now, what's to suggest they'd magically be able to then? I'm not denying there's an overall problem with ability to vote, just that it's not some excuse that flies for why things are "rigged" against Bernie now.

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I can also only say so anecdotally, but I know many people who did not know early voting was a thing. That said, living in Georgia that isn't actually RELEVANT right now, but I don't know how much of that info gets out there in places where it is.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Put it this way: Bernie just has to win NY and the shit he did in '16 and locks up the majority. Are you certain he can't do that with AOC stumping for him?

Obviously there's a chance but I'm not optimistic about it either. I think Biden is going to perform decently well from here on out, even in NY.

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HashtagSEP posted...

If you're passionate about it, you plan ahead. Can't vote after work? Schedule a vacation/sick day ahead of time. Most jobs will not fire you for taking time off to go vote, especially if you don't just spring it on them out of nowhere. This is not some problem that only exists to young people, and framing it like that is pretty dishonest. Other people showed up. It's telling about those that didn't.

Not everyone can afford to take a day off. And while this isn't a problem unique to the young, its far more likely to effect them than someone who's had years to save money.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Obviously there's a chance but I'm not optimistic about it either. I think Biden is going to perform decently well from here on out, even in NY.

Decently well doesn't do it. Hillary got. 57% on NY and it was her home turf. What odds would you bet on for him hitting 50%? One in five? One in six? Less? He's not HRC and he needs that kind of performance.

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"If you're passionate, then you can still vote" is not a valid argument against youth voter suppression and if anything would implicitly argue for that case.
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I'm reading that Hillary won TX over Bernie by 32, not 60. So yes, she did a lot better but not like Link to Alucard better.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/super-tuesday-results-2020- primary-texas-voter-suppression-lines-long-wait-queues-a9373886.html

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pyresword posted...

"If you're passionate, then you can still vote" is not a valid argument against youth voter suppression and if anything would implicitly argue for that case.

That's why this is so frustrating. It's dangerous rhetoric.

Dancedreamer posted...

Not everyone can afford to take a day off. And while this isn't a problem unique to the young, its far more likely to effect them than someone who's had years to save money.

Again, though, early voting was bigger than ever this year. And the Sanders campaign absolutely pushed early voting.

I'm not saying voter suppression isn't a problem. It's just not an excuse for why Bernie's losing, or to say everything is rigged against him.

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