Current Events > Mark Ruffalo: Marvel boss Kevin Feige almost quit over lack of representation

(+) Yeah! (+)

Mark Ruffalo has revealed that Marvel boss Kevin Feige nearly left the franchise over its lack of representation.

Speaking to The Independent, Ruffalo recalled an encounter with Feige on the set of 2012s The Avengers, in which he said he was about to urge his Disney superiors to launch a female-driven superhero movie.

Feige was unsure whether Ike Perlmutter, at that point Disneys largest shareholder, could be convinced.

Ruffalo said: When we did the first Avengers, Kevin Feige told me, Listen, I might not be here tomorrow. And hes like, Ike does not believe that anyone will go to a female-starring super movie. So if I am still here tomorrow you will know that I won that battle.

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/mark-ruffalo-kevin-feige-marvel-quit-representation-ike-perlmutter-disney-a9350921.html

Remember this shit the next time somebody whines about 'forced diversity'

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And yet Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel break records.

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Yeah. Sure. Totally believe it.

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If Ike was still calling the shots we probably wouldn't have Black Panther and Captain Marvel solo films to this day.

https://youtu.be/c5hXO1wreS8

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lilJoe457 posted...

Yeah. Sure. Totally believe it.

Why wouldn't you?

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Darmik posted...

Remember this shit the next time somebody whines about 'forced diversity'

How exactly? If anything it kind of validates the 'forced diversity' angle...

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It's well known that Ike Perlmutter and the Marvel Creative Committee strangled the MCU in its early years

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darkzero297 posted...

How exactly? If anything it kind of validates the 'forced diversity' angle...

You can't be this dense...

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darkzero297 posted...

How exactly? If anything it kind of validates the 'forced diversity' angle...

How is fighting major shareholders and executives for the opportunity to make a diverse movie validate forced diversity?

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Darmik posted...

Why wouldn't you?

because it's self righteous? it immediately makes you wonder if there isn't a lot more to this. of course, this isn't the same thing as calling ruffalo a liar. instead it might mean he's not perceptive. thinking about it i ask myself how could disney not want a movie based on a female lead when that's how virtually all their animated movies were made.

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I'll give Feige props for going to bat for a female superhero, but I'm still gonna call him out on picking the worst one of the bunch. <_<

Wewillrocku posted...

because it's self righteous? it immediately makes you wonder if there isn't a lot more to this. of course, this isn't the same thing as calling ruffalo a liar. instead it might mean he's not perceptive. thinking about it i ask myself how could disney not want a movie based on a female lead when that's how virtually all their animated movies were made.

It's pretty known how conservative Ike Perlmutter was with stuff like this. It's pretty well known how conservative Hollywood is in general with stuff like this.

I'm not sure why you think there's more to it. Before Wonder Woman they were looking at Catwoman and Elektra. Is that fair? No. But why would they care about fairness when millions are on the line.

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Darmik posted...

How is fighting major shareholders and executives for the opportunity to make a diverse movie validate forced diversity?

When people talk about this issue, it has been my impression that people often do so at the creative level. Hence the typical counter argument being that 'forced diversity' risks compromising the creative quality of the end product. This story that you posted reinforces the 'forced diversity' notion that the creative angle of these movies is being influenced by the political sensibilities of the creators in a premeditated fashion.

I can't think of a single time I have heard someone take the opposing position on this issue ('forced diversity' being a problem) and tackle it at the level of investors and other stakeholders for example.

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Darmik posted...

It's pretty known how conservative Ike Perlmutter was with stuff like this.

that doesn't seem well known at all, but you can think that he was. i'm not about to argue it except to say the following few words. i'm conservative but i support movies with all female roles. this is common in some parts of asia.

disney has a well known vision for doing things and this vision includes females. that should be obvious to disney fans. i really do not think ruffalo gets it.

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darkzero297 posted...

I can't think of a single time I have heard someone take the opposing position on this issue ('forced diversity' being a problem) and tackle it at the level of investors and other stakeholders.

You should think about why that is.

Forced diversity being an issue because creators want diversity in their own stories makes no sense.

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Demanding a female led movie after a bunch of guys have gotten movies isn't forced diversity.

Skye Reynolds posted...

Demanding a female led movie after a bunch of guys have gotten movies isn't forced diversity.

Holy shit, a good take from you.

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Wewillrocku posted...

disney has a well known vision for doing things and this vision includes females. that should be obvious to disney fans. i really do not think ruffalo gets it.

I mean you're arguing against what we actually ended up getting. It took nearly 10 years to see a female led MCU movie.

Frozen wasn't expected to be a big hit either. That was the movie that really changed the tide for the company. What was the last movie before then that had a woman lead? Princess and the Frog? Brave? (Pixar does seem to get away with doing what they want until they randomly made a bunch of sequels in a row).

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Make a good movie, and nobody will care how "woke" it is.

Let's not pretend Disney's never had a female led movie. Snow White and... Oh, I don't know, one or two others since then. <_<

Darmik posted...

Frozen wasn't expected to be a big hit either. That was the movie that really changed the tide for the company. What was the last movie before then that had a woman lead? Lilo and Stitch?

Brave and The Princess and the Frog were both after Lilo and Stitch.

I remembered those after I hit post! I don't think either of them were a big hit. No idea how much influence Ike had over other studios of Disney either.

But the reluctance of Marvel Studios doing a female led movie is pretty obvious. Ike tends to be one of the big people blamed for that.

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Skye Reynolds posted...

Brave and The Princess and the Frog were both after Lilo and Stitch.

Princess and the Frog was a flop and Brave is Pixar

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darkzero297 posted...

Hence the typical counter argument being that 'forced diversity' risks compromising the creative quality of the end product.

In this case the creators wanted diversity and it was executive meddling that risked compromising the creative quality of the end product.

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Oh yeah, Ike Perlmutter is kind of a notorious bastard.

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Darmik posted...

You should think about why that is.

Forced diversity being an issue because creators want diversity in their own stories makes no sense.

The entire issue is predicated on how well the diversity is implemented into the work. If it is done in an awkward or 'forced' manner, then the quality of the work is affected negatively and complaints follow from that. Is that not the issue? If not, then what is the source of contention? I am trying to be open minded about this, but I am increasingly convinced that you have misunderstood the implications of what Mark Ruffalo has said here.

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The Princess and the Frog is responsible for Disney abandoning 2D animation. It's a shame. Tiana was a good character, but the story itself was a little weak. The story feels like it's missing its second act.

Brave wasn't very good, aside from an excellent mother-daughter chemistry, but it won best animated feature over Wreck-It Ralph because it featured a tomboy who didn't need a man.

Then Frozen came along and was legit good all around. I still think Tiana is the best lead of the bunch, but a good character can only do so much to compensate for a weak plot. It's not a bad concept. They just... didn't do anything with it.

No he didn't

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Disney isn't reluctant to have female leads. The thing they're reluctant to do is have female leads in action roles. And that seems to remain an issue. If you look at the animated Disney filmography, one thing that is missing is a female adventurer.

There is Mulan, but that film was mostly an Eddie Murphy vehicle anyway. I'm talking about having a movie like Aladdin or Robin Hood, but with a female lead. That's really what's missing. Add one or two action scenes and Brave could've been that film. As it stands, she's still more of a tomboy than an adventure hero.

I haven't seen Frozen 2. The trailer made it look like it might be leaning in that direction. But nothing I've heard or read confirms that.

oh, by ruffalo i was referring to kevin f. the whole time, that's what i meant. never heard of either person before.

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darkzero297 posted...

The entire issue is predicated on how well the diversity is implemented into the work. If it is done in an awkward or 'forced' manner, then the quality of the work is affected negatively and complaints follow from that. Is that not the issue? If not, then what is the source of contention? I am trying to be open minded about this, but I am increasingly convinced that you have misunderstood the implications of what Mark Ruffalo has said here.

The issue with that argument is you're saying that having this stuff negatively impacts the story without really explaining why. How is it not 'forced' There are plenty of people who think companies like Disney do this stuff to appease social justice types and not because they want to.

Which implications do you think I've misunderstood? The implication seems to be that Feige had to fight tooth and nail to get a movie like Captain Marvel and would have left the company if he didn't get it.

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Mark Ruffalo is like the Brian Williams of Hollywood.
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AlisLandale posted...

In this case the creators wanted diversity and it was executive meddling that risked compromising the creative quality of the end product.

That's definitely an interesting point because I can imagine being able to argue the exact opposite. The question of 'forced diversity' implies that the diversity is being forced in artificially. So was the director looking to make a diverse project but was stopped from doing so from above, or was the director hired for a project but wanted to make his own changes.

Who is the 'creator' in this scenario? Is it the company that decided to make movies based on properties it acquired, or was it the director ultimately hired to do the job? Who is responsible for forcing their way in.

As I have said earlier in the topic, it seems from what Mark Ruffalo is saying that Kevin was the one trying to force a change and affect the original creative vision.

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darkzero297 posted...

Kevin was the one trying to force a change and affect the original creative vision.

Kevin was given full creative license though. So what was the "original vision" if not his?

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Haha

oh no the struggles of Hollywood rich people. :(

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darkzero297 posted...

That's definitely an interesting point because I can imagine being able to argue the exact opposite. The question of 'forced diversity' implies that the diversity is being forced in artificially. So was the director looking to make a diverse project but was stopped from doing so from above, or was the director hired for a project but wanted to make his own changes.

Who is the 'creator' in this scenario? Is it the company that decided to make movies based on properties it acquired, or was it the director ultimately hired to do the job? Who is responsible for forcing their way in.

As I have said earlier in the topic, it seems from what Mark Ruffalo is saying that Kevin was the one trying to force a change and affect the original creative vision.

You're misunderstanding the relationship here. Kevin Feige is the head of the MCU. Basically he's in charge of the MCU output. He chooses what they make, what directors to go with, etc. (assuming the Disney higher ups approve).

There's no original creative vision for him to meddle with because he was being denied the opportunity to start a female led Marvel movie to begin with.

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Darmik posted...

The issue with that argument is you're saying that having this stuff negatively impacts the story without really explaining why. How is it not 'forced' There are plenty of people who think companies like Disney do this stuff to appease social justice types and not because they want to.

Which implications do you think I've misunderstood? The implication seems to be that Feige had to fight tooth and nail to get a movie like Captain Marvel and would have left the company if he didn't get it.

I was purposely not explaining how 'forced diversity' might affect quality negatively because I'm not actually interested in that point of view. Rather, my only interest here was how you interpreted what Mark Ruffalo said as a refutation of the 'forced diversity' accusation when I could even more easily see this intrepreted as confirmation of precisely that accusation. The fact that Keven Feige had to fight so hard for it is what makes it look forced.

As it so happens, I actually agree with Kevin Feige. Black Widow should have had her own movie long ago at this point.


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darkzero297 posted...

Rather, my only interest here was how you interpreted what Mark Ruffalo said as a refutation of the 'forced diversity' accusation when I could even more easily see this intrepreted as confirmation of precisely that accusation. The fact that Keven Feige had to fight so hard for it is what makes it look forced.

What in the world.

You're acting like Feige is the only one in the company who wanted to do it. But it was only the odd executive like Ike that wanted him to 'not' do it.

Plenty of directors and actors want to make diverse movies. This is what Black Panther and Captain Marvel are. But they have to fight harder for the opportunity. Which is why these arguments about 'forced diversity' are dumb. More often than not the opposite happens and creatives are forced to make safe movies because that's all that gets approved.

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Darmik posted...

You're misunderstanding the relationship here. Kevin Feige is the head of the MCU. Basically he's in charge of the MCU output. He chooses what they make, what directors to go with, etc. (assuming the Disney higher ups approve).

There's no original creative vision for him to meddle with because he was being denied the opportunity to start a female led Marvel movie to begin with.

If that's true then I am mistaken then.

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I don't believe this.

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Damn, for whatever reason I was under the impression that Kevin Feige was just a director/producer, and not the actual head of MCU. Ok then that changes things. My mistake.

If Feige was intent on making a certain type of movie with a certain lead character and it was the Disney higher ups who prevented that due to concerns about diversity, then the interference would be on their part, not Feige.

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I don't trust a hack like Ruffalo. He is an expert at virtue signaling.
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So how do we know Perlmutter's reluctance isn't based on Superhero movies not fully being bulletproof box-office hits yet? This encounter happened during filming of The Avengers, which is where the MCU started to become a serious franchise and not just a movie here and there.

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Skye Reynolds posted...

I'll give Feige props for going to bat for a female superhero, but I'm still gonna call him out on picking the worst one of the bunch. <_<

Other than She-Hulk and Black Widow, who else could carry a movie?

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jumi posted...

Other than She-Hulk and Black Widow, who else could carry a movie?

Go to the Marvel Wiki and select Random Article until you find a female superhero. There's a 60% chance at least she'd be better than Captain Identity Thief.

Skye Reynolds posted...

Go to the Marvel Wiki and select Random Article until you find a female superhero. There's a 60% chance at least she'd be better than Captain Identity Thief.

And yet you can't give a name.

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jumi posted...

And yet you can't give a name.

I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with the extended Marvel universe. I mostly know the characters who had cartoons, video games, or movies. I refuse to believe the collective writers at Marvel Comics cared so little for women that Captain Marvel is their best offering outside of characters from X-Men, Spider-Man, or the Fantastic Four.

I did do the random character generator on the Marvel wiki page. It gave me Rogue, Black Widow, Storm, and White Queen -- all of which would've been better although not all would've been available for use.

It also generated this character:
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Waziria_(Earth-616)

I don't know who she is, but I'd rather watch a movie about some Smurf or random or blue elf than I would a film about an overpowered identity thief in a bad costume.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLw0a6kUlXE
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I do know that Feige HATED Perlmutter so I'd believe this

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