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EzeDoesIt 12/17/19 1:39:42 PM #1: |
The absolutely most diabolically brilliant thing the GOP has accomplished is to have young, low income earners spend their time defending tax cuts for billionaires and corporations. We need more people calling them out like the Twitter user above did here. --- "Beef is when I quote you, guaranteed to break the TOU." -The Notorious Shablagoo ... Copied to Clipboard!
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BroodRyu 12/17/19 1:40:48 PM #2: |
Im at the point where Ive stopped caring. I feel like anything I try to do is fruitless and pointless.
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konokonohamaru 12/17/19 1:42:25 PM #3: |
The question is whether it will even work, and what are the secondary consequences, not whether they can afford it.
--- A very happy young man looking forward to a bright and wonderful future. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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SquantoZ 12/17/19 1:44:27 PM #4: |
But but but...they worked hard to get there...but but but...shut the fuck up!
--- "Context Matters" ... Copied to Clipboard!
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BadderHare 12/17/19 1:47:23 PM #5: |
The most diabolically brilliant thing progressives have accomplished is to convince young people that economic illiteracy is virtuous.
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Shablagoo 12/17/19 1:50:15 PM #6: |
BadderHare posted...
The most diabolically brilliant thing progressives have accomplished is to convince young people that economic illiteracy is virtuous. Nah, our economy was better when billionaires were taxed. We used to tax them until some crooks came along and rigged the system even worse than it already was. --- "It was some post on the NFL board that got him." -AwesomeToTheMAX ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Solar_Crimson 12/17/19 1:51:47 PM #7: |
As much as I agree that billionaires should be taxed more (since taxes should be proportional to an individual's wealth), there's also the real possibility of them picking up shop and settling in some other country with more lax tax laws if we try to implement this.
--- Be wary of boarding the hype train, lest you end up on the ruse cruise... - nanobuilder (r/nintendo) http://backloggery.com/SolarCrimson ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Solar_Crimson 12/17/19 1:53:14 PM #8: |
Shablagoo posted...
Nah, our economy was better when billionaires were taxed. We used to tax them until some crooks came along and rigged the system even worse than it already was.And it's rather amazing how poor Republicans defend these billionaires, as if said billionaires would give two shits about them. --- Be wary of boarding the hype train, lest you end up on the ruse cruise... - nanobuilder (r/nintendo) http://backloggery.com/SolarCrimson ... Copied to Clipboard!
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BadderHare 12/17/19 1:53:52 PM #9: |
Shablagoo posted...
They are taxed and you should know Zucman and Saez are notorious in the economics community and were rightly torn apart for that "study" of theirs. PS Not everyone who is economically literate is a Republican, in fact very few are. Get an actual argument. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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hockeybub89 12/17/19 1:54:13 PM #10: |
I think every billionaire could easily survive being less of a billionaire.
--- ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Snickers_Pls 12/17/19 1:55:47 PM #13: |
konokonohamaru posted...
The question is whether it will even work lol it worked for decades when the top 1% paid shit loads more in taxes oh and everyone was fine with it and no one bitched this new republican greed is disgusting ... Copied to Clipboard!
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konokonohamaru 12/17/19 1:56:08 PM #15: |
Solar_Crimson posted...
Speaking as an independent, my fear is that "let's tax the billionaires" will morph into "let's tax anyone making a decent income" while the millionaires get to exploit loopholes and get out from paying their statutory share I'd love if billionaires ended up paying a greater share of their income in taxes, I just don't know if I trust any of the politicians to carry it out --- A very happy young man looking forward to a bright and wonderful future. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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NinjaWarrior455 12/17/19 1:56:22 PM #16: |
hockeybub89 posted...
I think every billionaire could easily survive being less of a billionaire.But their 5th yacht --- Super Bowl 52 Champions!!!! http://myanimelist.net/animelist/NinjaWarrior457 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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BadderHare 12/17/19 1:56:47 PM #17: |
Snickers_Pls posted...
lol it worked for decades when the top 1% paid shit loads more in taxes It is common knowledge that no one ever actually paid those rates. Less talking points guys. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Balrog0 12/17/19 1:58:01 PM #18: |
BadderHare posted...
It is common knowledge that no one ever actually paid those rates. this is such a stupid talking point because even though they didn't pay their marginal tax rates (btw, no one pays their marginal rate, that's not how they work) they did pay a larger percentage of their income in taxes, which is the point --- But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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SK8T3R215 12/17/19 2:01:44 PM #21: |
Shablagoo posted...
Nah, our economy was better when billionaires were taxed. We used to tax them until some crooks came along and rigged the system even worse than it already was. That graph is from the flawed study where they basically picked and chose data to bump up lower income taxes while reducing rich taxes to make this big headline to tout. Like they didn't include the earned income tax credit as a tax benefit and included unrealized gains are income. --- New York Knicks, New York Jets, New York Yankees. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Snickers_Pls 12/17/19 2:02:34 PM #22: |
BadderHare posted...
Lol no ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Balrog0 12/17/19 2:02:43 PM #23: |
HellRatUFO posted...
Tax revenue is higher when taxes are lowered lol. This isnt exclusively a Republican thing either, as this applied to both John F. Kennedy and Bill Clinton when they signed tax cuts. lmao Clinton raised taxes and cut spending, what are you talking about --- But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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konokonohamaru 12/17/19 2:03:27 PM #24: |
HellRatUFO posted...
Ah the Laffer Curve comes out to play --- A very happy young man looking forward to a bright and wonderful future. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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BadderHare 12/17/19 2:03:58 PM #25: |
Snickers_Pls posted...
Lol no Oh man nevermind this never happened since you said lol no my mistake. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Tmaster148 12/17/19 2:04:04 PM #26: |
That's crazy. Raising taxes and cutting spending leads to the government having more tax money. Who would have thought.
--- ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Solid Sonic 12/17/19 2:04:35 PM #27: |
BroodRyu posted...
Im at the point where Ive stopped caring. I feel like anything I try to do is fruitless and pointless. Millennial thinking. --- "It feels like I'm always wrong." "Nah, that's not true...I mean you just made that statement, didn't you?" ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Balrog0 12/17/19 2:05:08 PM #28: |
look, the tax foundation is admittedly conservative and even they don't say that raising rates reduces taxes
this is the talking point you were looking for, but you fumbled it because you can clearly see that tax revenue goes up when rates go up and go down when rates go down --- But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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BadderHare 12/17/19 2:05:53 PM #29: |
It should also be noted that the "research" done by Saez and Zucman was part of a book they were about to release and they also work for Warren's campaign, so they got a lot of mileage out of a false claim that the media parroted endlessly.
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DrizztLink 12/17/19 2:06:06 PM #30: |
BadderHare posted...
Oh man nevermind this never happened since you said lol no my mistake.Nobody is obligated to thoroughly work through a rebuttal until you actually back up your original statement with evidence. Until there's something more than "everyone knows" to your argument, lol no is all you get. --- ... Copied to Clipboard!
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konokonohamaru 12/17/19 2:07:11 PM #31: |
Balrog0 posted...
look, the tax foundation is admittedly conservative and even they don't say that raising rates reduces taxes To be fair you're only showing that their average rate goes up when their marginal rate goes up, not that tax revenues increase. Not that I disagree with your overall point --- A very happy young man looking forward to a bright and wonderful future. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Balrog0 12/17/19 2:08:36 PM #32: |
konokonohamaru posted...
To be fair you're only showing that their average rate goes up when their marginal rate goes up, not that tax revenues increase. lol fair enough --- But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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BadderHare 12/17/19 2:11:01 PM #33: |
DrizztLink posted...
Nobody is obligated to thoroughly work through a rebuttal until you actually back up your original statement with evidence. My bad I forgot common knowledge isn't common knowledge on CE. Got to talk a little slower in these parts. https://www.aier.org/article/the-rich-never-actually-paid-70-percent/ ... Copied to Clipboard!
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EndOfDiscOne 12/17/19 2:12:10 PM #34: |
26.9% is not that low of an effective tax rate tbh. I just looked at mine (total tax divided by AGI), and it was 12.0% last year. My marginal rate was 24%.
--- I am the Cheese! I am the best character on the show! I am better than both the salami and the bologna COMBINED! ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Balrog0 12/17/19 2:13:07 PM #35: |
EndOfDiscOne posted...
26.9% is not that low of an effective tax rate tbh. I just looked at mine (total tax divided by AGI), and it was 12.0% last year. this was before the TCJA that skewed benefits to the rich fwiw --- But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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PatrickMahomes 12/17/19 2:13:44 PM #36: |
BroodRyu posted...
Im at the point where Ive stopped caring. I feel like anything I try to do is fruitless and pointless. Welcome to the club fam --- Shoutout to LordFarquad1312 for informing me that the weird furry anime where the fox thing hates her job or something is called Aggretsuko. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Garioshi 12/17/19 2:15:32 PM #37: |
Solar_Crimson posted...
As much as I agree that billionaires should be taxed more (since taxes should be proportional to an individual's wealth), there's also the real possibility of them picking up shop and settling in some other country with more lax tax laws if we try to implement this.Fuck 'em. --- "I play with myself" - Darklit_Minuet, 2018 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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treewojima 12/17/19 2:16:46 PM #38: |
I imagine most of their wealth is tied up in investments/capital gains, so if you're thinking they're going to flee the US, you'd want to look at similarly developed nations and their respective rates
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Balrog0 12/17/19 2:20:56 PM #39: |
treewojima posted...
I imagine most of their wealth is tied up in investments/capital gains, so if you're thinking they're going to flee the US, you'd want to look at similarly developed nations and their respective rates fuckin ireland --- But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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SauI_Goodman 12/17/19 2:21:48 PM #41: |
If you get a chance read Secrecy World. The amount of stuff the rich will do to avoid paying taxes is unbelievable.
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konokonohamaru 12/17/19 2:22:22 PM #42: |
Balrog0 posted...
Can't blame them tho can you? --- A very happy young man looking forward to a bright and wonderful future. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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konokonohamaru 12/17/19 2:23:01 PM #43: |
SauI_Goodman posted...
If you get a chance read Secrecy World. The amount of stuff the rich will do to avoid paying taxes is unbelievable. They don't even have to do it themselves. Just pay a tax advisor a small percentage commission and they'll do it all for you --- A very happy young man looking forward to a bright and wonderful future. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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EzeDoesIt 12/17/19 2:24:15 PM #44: |
SauI_Goodman posted...
If you get a chance read Secrecy World. The amount of stuff the rich will do to avoid paying taxes is unbelievable. Netflix made a movie based off it too, The Laundromat. Not sure if its any good though, and its a fictional drama not a documentary. --- "Beef is when I quote you, guaranteed to break the TOU." -The Notorious Shablagoo ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Balrog0 12/17/19 2:27:17 PM #45: |
shockthemonkey posted...
This article highlights how the ultra rich paid much higher effective rates than they currently do. Youre not making the argument you think youre making. it's also not a great comparison for the purposes of federal income tax rates because they are discussing state and local taxes (and other federal taxes) in that article as well --- But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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BadderHare 12/17/19 2:28:33 PM #46: |
shockthemonkey posted...
This article highlights how the ultra rich paid much higher effective rates than they currently do. Youre not making the argument you think youre making. The takeaway from the history lesson of the 1950s is not the golden age of high taxes and prosperity that supporters of the Green New Deal imagine it to be. Rather, the tax policy of this period strongly suggests that high statutory rates are only sustainable when they are accompanied by massive legal tax shelters that are written into the tax code by design. The high statutory tax rates were just a facade obscuring a more tempered reality. These legal loopholes reduced the effective tax burden on top earners to a manageable level. While apples-to-apples comparisons between the 1950s and the tax system today require making several assumptions about the reliability of tax-reported income data, a recent report from the Tax Foundation used an estimate of the top 1 percent income share to calculate its associated effective tax rates over time. Its findings show that this groups effective income tax rate in the 1950s was only slightly higher than today: 42 percent versus 36.4 percent. 6% really isn't "much higher" and it certainly doesn't justify what progressives are asking for. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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treewojima 12/17/19 2:30:10 PM #47: |
Balrog0 posted...
treewojima posted...I imagine most of their wealth is tied up in investments/capital gains, so if you're thinking they're going to flee the US, you'd want to look at similarly developed nations and their respective rates https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/tax/capital_taxes/capital_gains_tax.html this says 33% compared to the max of 20% in the US ... Copied to Clipboard!
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EzeDoesIt 12/17/19 2:38:13 PM #48: |
BadderHare posted...
The takeaway from the history lesson of the 1950s is not the golden age of high taxes and prosperity that supporters of the Green New Deal imagine it to be. Rather, the tax policy of this period strongly suggests that high statutory rates are only sustainable when they are accompanied by massive legal tax shelters that are written into the tax code by design. You understand more than just billionaires are in the 1%, right? Way more, actually. --- "Beef is when I quote you, guaranteed to break the TOU." -The Notorious Shablagoo ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Balrog0 12/17/19 2:39:28 PM #49: |
treewojima posted...
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/tax/capital_taxes/capital_gains_tax.html I was joking because ireland has low corporate tax rates; I think the higher capital gains taxes make up for the difference, though ireland is a pretty low-tax country still (Just not as low tax as the US) --- But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Sackgurl 12/17/19 2:42:41 PM #50: |
Balrog0 posted...
lmao lets run the numbers a bit https://www.mercatus.org/publications/government-spending/tax-rates-vs-tax-revenues https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/GC.TAX.TOTL.GD.ZS?locations=US https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/GC.TAX.TOTL.CN?end=2018&locations=US&start=1972&view=chart --- LittleBigPlanet is like merging dress-up with a real game. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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