Current Events > I don't believe in "gender neutral."

(+) Yeah! (+)

If a person is trans and wants to be the opposite sex/gender, then okay. I'm not going to be mean and insist that they're something they don't want to be. But I'm not going to call someone they/them, or acknowledge that "gender neutral" is valid.

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Nobody asked you, though, so like

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I don't believe this topic is going anywhere good.
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Orlando_Jordan posted...

But I'm not going to call someone they/them, or acknowledge that "gender neutral" is valid.

Why is this so hard for you to accept, though?

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Hexenherz posted...

Why is this so hard for you to accept, though?

Because you're either male or female.

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What about cultures that have more than two genders, though? They do exist, and the third gender oftentimes fills a unique cultural niche.

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Hexenherz posted...

What about cultures that have more than two genders, though? They do exist, and the third gender oftentimes fills a unique cultural niche.

What culture has more than two genders? Are you talking about mythology or what?

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Orlando_Jordan posted...

What culture has more than two genders? Are you talking about mythology or what?

http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/content/two-spirits_map-html/

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They/them being used as a singular pronounce isn't really new. Like, it's whatever for me. If someone wanted me to refer to them like that, sure
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I'll call a person whatever they want to be called out of courtesy and respect, but I can't deny the biological facts. If you're born that way, that's what you are. You can identify as whatever you want. That's none of my business. But I'm not going to believe a dog is a horse just because the dog thinks it is.

DDirtyDastard posted...

I'll call a person whatever they want to be called out of courtesy and respect, but I can't deny the biological facts. If you're born that way, that's what you are. You can identify as whatever you want. That's none of my business. But I'm not going to believe a dog is a horse just because the dog thinks it is.

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It's getting ridiculous.

I'm a (cis) male. But if I want to play with dolls, I'll do it, because I can.

Also, androgyny.

Don't get me wrong, I worked with a MtF trans once.

We got along. Intelligent as hell, but definitely neurotic. Also, the wrong pronoun thing is real.


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DDirtyDastard posted...

I'll call a person whatever they want to be called out of courtesy and respect, but I can't deny the biological facts. If you're born that way, that's what you are. You can identify as whatever you want. That's none of my business. But I'm not going to believe a dog is a horse just because the dog thinks it is.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-14459843

I mean, it's usually not black-and-white "lol penis man vagina woman".

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Now that I think about it, I haven't heard ANYTHING about siamese twins this millennium.

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MI4 REAL posted...

It's getting ridiculous.

I'm a (cis) male. But if I want to play with dolls, I'll do it, because I can.

Also, androgyny.

Don't get me wrong, I worked with a MtF trans once.

We got along. Intelligent as hell, but definitely neurotic. Also, the wrong pronoun thing is real.

That's an unfair generalization. While it's true that *some* people get upset about it, that doesn't mean *all* transgender individuals get upset about it or put as much importance into it as you might think. I've worked with several transgender individuals and I didn't even know it because they never reacted to someone saying "he" or "she".

I suppose on the inside they might have been annoyed or frustrated, but they certainly never showed it on the outside, and when I found out and apologized they claimed to not care.

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Hexenherz posted...

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-14459843

I mean, it's usually not black-and-white "lol penis man vagina woman".

The term for that situation is hermaphrodite. Has nothing to do with gender dysphoria.

Also, it usually IS black or white. The grey area is an exception.

DDirtyDastard posted...

The term for that situation is hermaphrodite. Has nothing to do with gender dysphoria.

It has a lot to do with it when a doctor incorrectly and arbitrarily determines a person is a male based on external physical markers.

yemmy posted...

I think there are 2 genders period and that transgenderism is a product of mental ilillnesses most of the time.

And I would ask what you think about cultures / societies that have multiple genders?

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Hexenherz posted...

That's an unfair generalization. While it's true that *some* people get upset about it, that doesn't mean *all* transgender individuals get upset about it or put as much importance into it as you might think. I've worked with several transgender individuals and I didn't even know it because they never reacted to someone saying "he" or "she".

I suppose on the inside they might have been annoyed or frustrated, but they certainly never showed it on the outside, and when I found out and apologized they claimed to not care.

No seriously. It was a pre-op MTF, so (they) still looked primarily male. (he) got estrogen shots so he actually grew natural breasts. There were a number of double takes over that, but no one disrespected (her)

The older clientele used all the wrong pronouns, but said nothing but good about (her)


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@DDirtyDastard

Enjoy your suspension.

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Orlando_Jordan posted...

What culture has more than two genders? Are you talking about mythology or what?

Transgender people have literally existed since the dawn of human history. Your ignorance is not a damnation of your character, but it certainly seems to be affecting it.

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Shablagoo posted...

Transgender people have literally existed since the dawn of human history. Your ignorance is not a damnation of your character, but it certainly seems to be affecting it.

I'm not talking about transgender people.

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Orlando_Jordan posted...

I'm not talking about transgender people.

Oops. In any case, the gender spectrum has existed since the dawn of human history.

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I get along with Say and Gunpla, just incase anyone is wondering.

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How about gender reverse or gender park?

MI4 REAL posted...

It's getting ridiculous.

I'm a (cis) male. But if I want to play with dolls, I'll do it, because I can.

Also, androgyny.

Don't get me wrong, I worked with a MtF trans once.

We got along. Intelligent as hell, but definitely neurotic. Also, the wrong pronoun thing is real.

Yeah, I think gender stuff is mainly bullshit. Society determines what men and women should do, wear, how they should act, etc. We're even actively fighting against what biology has determined for us (like how women are often the nurturers and men protect them and gather resources).

These labels seem super forced in today's world, nobody fits neatly into just one category. Just like what you like and celebrate whatever you are, you don't need to come up with 63 or whatever additional genders to try to describe yourself.

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Ultima Dragon posted...

Yeah, I think gender stuff is mainly bullshit. Society determines what men and women should do, wear, how they should act, etc. We're even actively fighting against what biology has determined for us (like how women are often the nurturers and men protect them and gather resources).

These labels seem super forced in today's world, nobody fits neatly into just one category. Just like what you like and celebrate whatever you are, you don't need to come up with 63 or whatever additional genders to try to describe yourself.

There are mutations and flaws in natural biology.....a cat of mine had 5 kittens, but they were all conjoined.......worst thing I ever witnessed.

BTW, I'm 25% female (per an online test), and I shave my pubes. And I am a cis male.

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Ultima Dragon posted...

We're even actively fighting against what biology has determined for us (like how women are often the nurturers and men protect them and gather resources).

Woah boy.

*backs out of topic*

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RoadsterUFO posted...

As a man with long curly hair that gets Brazilian wax jobs now and then that happens to get mistaken for a woman quite frequently... People that meltdown over a random stranger in public mistaking them for something beyond their preferred gender identity are batshit crazy and need to learn that they world does not revolve around them. To what extent do civil strangers meeting you for the first time in public have to participate in your self-image?

The problem I have with this is people who believe those types are a significant number. Ive seen that Gamestop video but I dont think that happens very often.

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I've never been interested in sports. Does that make me less of a man? Is there a specific gender for men who don't like sports? This whole gender non-conforming thing is so ridiculous.

There are (cis) people who literally look like they could be the other gender (Wait, are the male or female? I'm not even going to interact because I might get it wrong, unless I get to know them)

It sucks, yeah. But you know what else sucks, a male with a predominately female name, or a person who gets bullied, and is labeled the aggressor because the bullies outnumber you 2-1

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I mean if someone wants to be identified as something else I'm fine with it. People need to understand that me and I'm sure others probably won't get it right the first time and that they should correct me as long as they aren't assholes about it. But after you correct me once I'll call you what you want to be called.

I always considered they/them to be either gender or acknowledging multiple people. I don't understand that.

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ZMythos posted...

Woah boy.

*backs out of topic*

That's part of the problem.

The thing that destroyed us is the destruction of the 1-income family.

Us men brought home the bacon, and the women took care of the child.

If the woman was unable, we burned the wick at both ends and took care of the slack until she was better.

And we took care of the child on our off-time jointly.

But, of course, the 1 income family was destroyed, and that is the cause of this current dystopia.

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Superlinkbro posted...

I mean if someone wants to be identified as something else I'm fine with it. People need to understand that me and I'm sure others probably won't get it right the first time and that they should correct me as long as they aren't assholes about it. But after you correct me once I'll call you what you want to be called.

I always considered they/them to be either gender or acknowledging multiple people. I don't understand that.

They/them is only grammatically correct for multiple people, not a singular person.

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Superlinkbro posted...

I mean if someone wants to be identified as something else I'm fine with it. People need to understand that me and I'm sure others probably won't get it right the first time and that they should correct me as long as they aren't assholes about it. But after you correct me once I'll call you what you want to be called.

I always considered they/them to be either gender or acknowledging multiple people. I don't understand that.

*girl plays with action figures*

So what?

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MI4 REAL posted...

That's part of the problem.

The thing that destroyed us is the destruction of the 1-income family.

Us men brought home the bacon, and the women took care of the child.

If the woman was unable, we burned the wick at both ends and took care of the slack until she was better.

And we took care of the child on our off-time jointly.

But, of course, the 1 income family was destroyed, and that is the cause of this current dystopia.

Yikes

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PleaseClap posted...

Yikes

Were you not born in the 80s?

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PleaseClap posted...

Yikes

Whats yikes about it? Both parents working puts more stress on home life.

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fan357 posted...

Whats yikes about it? Both parents working puts more stress on home life.

"A woman's place is in the house" is a pretty yikes viewpoint

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Orlando_Jordan posted...

They/them is only grammatically correct for multiple people, not a singular person.

You aren't this big a stickler for grammatical correctness elsewhere, I guarantee it.
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fan357 posted...

Whats yikes about it? Both parents working puts more stress on home life.

I remember a video where one quoted Rockefeller (one of the elite families) said the reason women got the right to work male jobs was so they could tax both instead of just the males.

'If females work too, we can tax them all instead of just the men'

Females didn't win the right to work. And believe me, I work in an automotive factory, and they can work hard.

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PleaseClap posted...

"A woman's place is in the house" is a pretty yikes viewpoint

I sweep and vacuum when I can.

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PleaseClap posted...

"A woman's place is in the house" is a pretty yikes viewpoint

I dunno. Those traditional gender roles weren't around for so long because they were ineffective.

Now, we have effectively twice the supply of workers, so there is a surplus. So wages stagnate. So both parents have to work. So everything from child education to basic nutrition suffers.

Just saying, there seem to be unfortunate consequences to smashing all that patriarchy.

@Sayoria

@gunplagirl

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Orlando_Jordan posted...

They/them is only grammatically correct for multiple people, not a singular person.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they#Usage

They with a singular antecedent goes back to the Middle English of the 14th century[21][22] (slightly younger than they with a plural antecedent, which was borrowed from Old Norse in the 13th century),[23] and has remained in common use for centuries in spite of its proscription by traditional grammarians beginning in the mid 18th century.[24][25]
Informal spoken English exhibits nearly universal use of the singular they. An examination by Jrgen Gerner of the British National Corpus published in 1998 found that British speakers, regardless of social status, age, sex, or region, used the singular they overwhelmingly more often than the gender-neutral he or other options.[26]

Older usage
Singular they is found in the writings of many respected authors. Here are some examples, arranged chronologically:
"Eche on in er craft ys wijs." ("Each one in their craft is wise.") Wycliffe's Bible, Ecclus. 38.35 (1382)[27]
"And whoso fyndeth hym out of swich blame, They wol come up..." Chaucer, "The Pardoner's Prologue" of The Canterbury Tales (c. 1400)[28] quoted by Jespersen and thence in Merriam-Webster's Concise Dictionary of English Usage.[29]
"Eche of theym sholde ... make theymselfe redy." Caxton, Sonnes of Aymon (c. 1489)[30]
"If a person is born of a ... gloomy temper ... they cannot help it." Chesterfield, Letter to his son (1759);[31] quoted in Fowler's.[32]
"A person can't help their birth." Rosalind, in W. M. Thackeray, Vanity Fair (1848);[33] quoted from the OED by Curzan in Gender Shifts in the History of English.[34]
"Now nobody does anything well that they cannot help doing" Ruskin, The Crown of Wild Olive (1866);[35] quoted in Fowler's.[32]
"Nobody in their senses would give sixpence on the strength of a promissory note of the kind." Bagehot, The Liberal Magazine (1910);[36] quoted in Fowler's.[37]

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"we" is a british term.

I'm too drunk to crunch that right now.

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MI4 REAL posted...

GPG is already here. I an not gender neutral. Why call us out?

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Capitalist greed caused the destruction of the 1-income family.



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