Current Events > The original Legend of Zelda and Metroid are probably the best examples of

(+) Yeah! (+)

bad games with amazing concepts.

The Metroidvania and Zelda genre are both amazing genres that unfortunately aren't that common in gaming. Luckily Nintendo basically perfected both of them (including the 3D versions) in the decades following those original games.
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Nice

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Damn_Underscore posted...

The Metroidvania and Zelda genre are both amazing genres that unfortunately aren't that common in gaming.

... how many freakin' indie games have ripped off both?

MarthGoomba posted...

... how many freakin' indie games have ripped off both?

A lot, but you can't blame TC for not knowing. He's too busy milking himself dry to boogie's vids to keep up.

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MarthGoomba posted...

... how many freakin' indie games have ripped off both?

A bunch of mediocre indie games that no one knows about doesn't affect the fact that they aren't very common genres. They still aren't being made that often by AAA developers, and AAA developers/publishers still control the trends in gaming.
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LOZ is "bad"?

Questionmarktarius posted...

LOZ is "bad"?

If it didn't have the LoZ name a lot more people would see it for what it is. Games that require a strategy guide to beat are automatically flawed and not very fun. LoZ is just as cryptic as Castlevania 2 but gets none of the hate for some reason. LoZ is definitely better than Metroid though, for the gameplay alone.
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Metroid is just a fairly raw first attempt at a concept that hadn't really been done before.

Questionmarktarius posted...

Metroid is just a fairly raw first attempt at a concept that hadn't really been done before.

I mean they had to start somewhere but it's a bad game, objectively. Zero Mission is probably the best remake ever made for that exact reason.
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ClunkerSlim posted...

Like not even a little bit.

passthrough walls, tho.

Damn_Underscore posted...

Games that require a strategy guide to beat are automatically flawed and not very fun.

Except it doesn't unless you lack problem solving or critical thinking abilities.

Agreed about OG Metroid though, horrible game.

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I can still draw the metroid map from memory.
Huh.

MetaMajik posted...

Except it doesn't unless you lack problem solving or critical thinking abilities.

Agreed about OG Metroid though, horrible game.

You probably went to the right and got stuck.
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Zack_Attackv1 posted...

You probably went to the right and got stuck.

Or, you know, bombed the floor in a room that looks just like a dozen other rooms, and went nowhere, while missing that one identical room that goes somewhere.

16-BITTER posted...

Ok zoomer

Ahha

Its funny because Zoomer is an actual enemy in the Metroid series...

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I lowkey think the original LoZ is one of the better Zelda games to this day.

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dmaster342 posted...

I lowkey think the original LoZ is one of the better Zelda games to this day.

Why be lowkey about it?
It's still the best one.

Zelda 1 is fun because it's satisfying to be turned loose and figure it out yourself. Explore and bomb

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OG LoZ is basically unplayable for me. As a kid, my first video game ever was Link to the Past. You can't go back from that.

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Questionmarktarius posted...

passthrough walls, tho.

Might be hard to understand for you young'uns but when we say we burnt every Bush we mean we burnt literally every fucking Bush that the candle could reach. Passthrough walls are easy to find in comparison.

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Damn_Underscore posted...

I mean they had to start somewhere but it's a bad game, objectively. Zero Mission is probably the best remake ever made for that exact reason.

I won't deny that Zero Mission is the better game, but I still find the original very much replayable.

I was actually surprised to see people saying it was hard because of the enemies and the lack of a map. It got easier for me once I got the
ice beam and screw attack. And the only time I used a guide for that game was for two missile expansions. Didn't even need a map.

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Tyranthraxus posted...

Passthrough walls are easy to find in comparison.

There is no indication whatsoever that you have to press against the wall for two seconds.

Questionmarktarius posted...

There is no indication whatsoever that you have to press against the wall for two seconds.

Yes there was. You had a dungeon map.

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Tyranthraxus posted...

Yes there was. You had a dungeon map.

"Okay, so do I just hump the wall here?" isn't really something I considered in 1986.

Questionmarktarius posted...

"Okay, so do I just hump the wall here?" isn't really something I considered in 1986.

Well a lot of us did because we did it all.

Bomb every wall
Hump every wall
Burn every Bush
Play the whistle on every screen
Bomb every rock
Push every statue
Push every block
Etc

Of course TLoZ isn't nearly as big as Zelda games these days so it wasn't as time consuming as it sounds, but we did it all.

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Questionmarktarius posted...

Why be lowkey about it?
It's still the best one.

Idk, it just seems to me that ALttP, ALBW, Link's Awakening, etc. are considered better 2D Zeldas and I'm just like, this one is pretty good too and hardly anybody mentions it. Even in this thread people are saying it's not that great so yeah.

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Tyranthraxus posted...

Well a lot of us did because we did it all.

Bomb every wall
Hump every wall
Burn every Bush
Play the whistle on every screen
Bomb every rock
Push every statue
Push every block
Etc

This. I remember doing just that sort of thing in Phantasie and Might and Magic games.

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Tyranthraxus posted...

Well a lot of us did because we did it all.

There were no walls to hump in the entire first run.

Damn_Underscore posted...

A bunch of mediocre indie games that no one knows about doesn't affect the fact that they aren't very common genres. They still aren't being made that often by AAA developers, and AAA developers/publishers still control the trends in gaming.

uh no indies have been the driving force behind the prevalence of metroidvanias in recent years

AAAs control the trends in dudebro gaming

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Tyranthraxus posted...

Well a lot of us did because we did it all.

Bomb every wall
Hump every wall
Burn every Bush
Play the whistle on every screen
Bomb every rock
Push every statue
Push every block
Etc

Of course TLoZ isn't nearly as big as Zelda games these days so it wasn't as time consuming as it sounds, but we did it all.

This isn't fun.
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Damn_Underscore posted...

This isn't fun.

Ok zoomer

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Questionmarktarius posted...

There were no walls to hump in the entire first run.

If you were an idiot kid like I was you probably started out by naming your save file "Zelda"

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Tyranthraxus posted...

If you were an idiot kid like I was you probably started out by naming your save file "Zelda"

well... shit

I think LoZ is still fun, and even if a guide is needed, just playing it feels good. Metroid on the other hand, guide or no guide, is the opposite, I hate playing it. Bad game.

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PiOverlord posted...

I think LoZ is still fun, and even if a guide is needed, just playing it feels good. Metroid on the other hand, guide or no guide, is the opposite, I hate playing it. Bad game.

Lol I like when you are transitioning to another room and an enemy is close enough so it goes with you, damaging you 5 times in the process. It's definitely rough around the edges, but I still enjoy it.

Zelda 1 and Metroid 1: Zelda 1 is definitely the better game. The greatness that later came from them :)

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industrializeit posted...

Lol I like when you are transitioning to another room and an enemy is close enough so it goes with you, damaging you 5 times in the process.

It's also hilariously exploitable to get into places you aren't supposed to be yet.

Legend of Zelda on the NES is still a good game.

I'll give you Metroid 1 though. Horrible game.

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Damn_Underscore posted...

MarthGoomba posted...

... how many freakin' indie games have ripped off both?

A bunch of mediocre indie games that no one knows about doesn't affect the fact that they aren't very common genres. They still aren't being made that often by AAA developers, and AAA developers/publishers still control the trends in gaming.

Yeah dude, Hollow Knight sure is obscure, no one has ever heard of-

https://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2019/02/14/hollow-knight-sales-top-two-million/

...oh

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/182673/metroid-samus-returns/sales

0.56m total

...oh
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NES was a really janky platform, if we're honest about it.
The pinnacle was probably River City Ransom.

ClunkerSlim posted...

All I see are a bunch of people complaining about "NES Hard."

Sorry that LoZ forced you to explore or that Metroid didn't hold your hand with a map.

Future games in those series didn't have those problems and are much better games.
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Questionmarktarius posted...

passthrough walls, tho.

The only important breakable walls are found in dungeons, in the center of one of four walls. This isn't really cryptic, especially when an overworld cave literally tells you to look out for this with bombs.
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ClunkerSlim posted...

All I see are a bunch of people complaining about "NES Hard."

Sorry that LoZ forced you to explore or that Metroid didn't hold your hand with a map.

Even with a map, Metroid is not fun.

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The original Zelda is still fun to play. It's a little bullshit sometimes, but it's an enjoyable experience even if it's flawed.

Unlike the original Metroid. I beat it once and there was virtually no entertainment value at all

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Metroid is arguably better than Super Metroid imho
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Zelda 1 is by FAR the worst Zelda game. It is the clunkiest one by miles.

It would automatically be 3 times better if two changes were made:
1. You can move diagonally.
2. The sword actually SWINGS, not a 2 frame thrust in front of Link.

Completely barring the design choices of the game, the controls and clunkiness alone drag it way the fuck down. Just make Link control identically to LA Link and you got yourself a way better game
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Zelda 2
LttP
OOT
Zelda 1
LA

Those are the top 5 from best to worst.

I still like the original Metroid more than Zero Mission, warts and all. Zero Mission just feels like a cheap rendition of Super Metroid, but doesn't have the design chops. So I'd rather just play Super Metroid.

As for the original Zelda, pretty much a perfect game.

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