Poll of the Day > So I saw Frozen 2. I have thoughts. (Spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Full disclosure, Im not particularly a fan of the original Frozen. It overshadows Moana for some reason, and I cant begin to imagine why, because Moana is one of the best recent Disney movies, and a lot of care and love went into every aspect of it that I feel was lacking with Frozen. Nonetheless, Ive seen it a dozen times because Im with my niece half the week, and of course she loves the shit out of it.

I know the general consensus is that its alright. And Im inclined to disagree. Its good. Not great. but its an enjoyable flick and Im considering watching it again. But its been like 9 hours since I sat in that theatre, and I cant help but feel like this shouldve been longer than it was. Kristoff kinda... disappears for a big chunk of the movie. They set up this subplot where hes worried that Anna is growing apart from him (she spends the movie doting on Elsa because magic drama stuff, so she understandably has her hands tied), and he even has a song about it (the audience was dying laughing during it), and then immediately after... its just dropped. Hes not really around for the SAD at the end of Act 2, and yeah, he shows up to help them at the end, but thats really it. There isnt really a conclusion to this thing they set up. Its just thrown in there because its been 15 minutes without a song, and Disney will throw a tantrum if they cant milk another $2.99 for this when it drops on itunes, and then we dont really see him! The problem is just solved without much time devoted to it.

And yeah, by itself, its not a big thing. How many unnecessary songs did La La Land have, right? But theres just... so much fluff to this soundtrack, and they couldve used that space for other, better songs in other, better scenes. And they... didnt.

Maybe Ive been spoiled by Moanas stuff by Lin Manuel Miranda, but most of the songs here just felt so... unnecessary. And you would think the company that perfected the art of the movie musical wouldve done better than this. But this one problem is so indicative of the bigger issue, where time is devoted to stuff that wouldve logically fit better in a longer narrative.

And Elsa gets a little buddy buddy with some chick, but thats only for like 2 minutes, and its really just exposition. So no lesbian Elsa, which... okay. Fine. Disney wants to market this in China.

The end just sorta... happens. Elsa finds out The Truth, and is immediately put out of commission. Anna plays the hero, saves the day... and then its decided that Elsa belongs in The North, and we get Game of Thrones 2.0 where Anna takes the crown instead.

But theres no buildup to Elsa staying! Oh, Magic is from this enchanted forest thats a hop skip and a jump from the castle, but then it takes a day to get there by horse, but then Elsa manages to make it back (from an island thats far from the forest, but also apparently visible from the horizon) just in time to prevent water from a broken dam from Enchanted Forest. she doesnt even really have a conversation with Natives (and well get to the Natives later, maybe). Oh, Elsa saves the kingdom, has her big triumphant moment and then its all like Oh, yeah, guess you should stay here, lady. But its okay because you can come back whenever you want, in fact come to our little family game night in 3 days.

IDK, Im still ruminating in this. So AMA (about my experience watching this) and Ill answer it. Maybe I was wrong and I missed something, but... idk.

This movie shouldve been Frozen 2+3

---

This was very stream of conciousness-y, so theres really no structure to what I said. But everything I stated still stands.

It couldve been better than it was. Though Ill probably watch it again, and then a third time on Disney+ or whatever.

---

Tangled > Frozen > Moana.

Moana had the best visuals though

---

I think this is visually the best of the Nu Disney era. Some of the shots were STUNNING, and the water effects were just... perfect.

I dont actually like Tangled. Unless you tie me to a chair, and throw my phone away, I wont really watch more than 50% of it.

I think about I Have a Dream at least once a month though.

---

Appropriate

https://imgur.com/a/jX1Q2FS

---

It feels like there are a lot of characters who don't really fulfill a purpose in the film and the backstory tying a lot of loose ends together feels unnecessary.

I don't think it's a problem to give Kristoff a comedy subplot if they don't want to work him into the main story, but having a fairly convoluted mystery (for a short children's movie) with multiple reveals coming from multiple sources doesn't give things a lot of room to grow or develop.

I still really enjoyed the movie though. The lizard is so dope.
---

The lizard was v cute, yes. Cant wait to see 100 variants of plushies for him.

---

I liked how the film didn't have a villain or even really an antagonist

I kept dreading that we'd suddenly have a reveal that Olaf had masterminded everything or some other dumb shit
---

Did I miss why Elsa got Frozen Hearted after finding The Truth? Because it just sorta happens as a way to get her out of the picture so Anna has a harder time doing The Thing and saving the day.

If she was really the Fifth Spirit all along, why did she get incapacitated after learning everything? It just sorta happens, and is undone after its all over, just in time for her to do The Other Thing.

I cant get over the thought of Olaf secretly being fantheory Jar Jar. Thanks for than Bligh

---

PK_Spam posted...

Did I miss why Elsa got Frozen Hearted after finding The Truth? Because it just sorta happens as a way to get her out of the picture so Anna has a harder time doing The Thing and saving the day.

If she was really the Fifth Spirit all along, why did she get incapacitated after learning everything? It just sorta happens, and is undone after its all over, just in time for her to do The Other Thing.

I cant get over the thought of Olaf secretly being fantheory Jar Jar. Thanks for than Bligh

It's literally just "if you go too deep you die" it was in the song

Honestly the climax after that last big song was the weakest part of the film. I wasn't sure on what kind of thematic conclusion I was supposed to be taking home. Anna acts as the voice of reason, who is at the same time presented as holding Elsa back, and then she gets shit upon and then saves the day. Elsa kind of acts like a dick but it leads her to a moment of triumphant self discovery before she becomes Ice Jesus.

It all felt a bit muddled in contrast to the first film.
---

I genuinely feel vindicated that someone else feels the way I do. Why are we not gamefaqs friends? Youve been here just as long as I have (on my old account)

---

My niece wants me to see it with her this week. I'm guessing this doesn't exactly have a 'Let It Go' equivalent?

---

It has two.

Into the Unknown and... uh... this other one before the end of the second act. I cant remember it, but it was actually pretty good.

When I say that some of the songs are unneeded, I dont mean the real emotionally drawn Idina Menzel songs. I mean stuff like Kristoffs Into the Woods, which isnt as good and isnt as cathartic as the others.

---

Is there another duet with Sven?

---

PK_Spam posted...

They set up this subplot where hes worried that Anna is growing apart from him (she spends the movie doting on Elsa because magic drama stuff, so she understandably has her hands tied), and he even has a song about it (the audience was dying laughing during it), and then immediately after... its just dropped. Hes not really around for the SAD at the end of Act 2, and yeah, he shows up to help them at the end, but thats really it. There isnt really a conclusion to this thing they set up.

Him just "coming back" is the conclusion. They've both been there all along. She even apologizes for leaving him behind. What were you really expecting?

PK_Spam posted...

And Elsa gets a little buddy buddy with some chick, but thats only for like 2 minutes, and its really just exposition. So no lesbian Elsa, which... okay. Fine. Disney wants to market this in China.

Elsa still doesn't end up with anyone so no one knows if she's straight, lesbian or anything else.

PK_Spam posted...

The end just sorta... happens. Elsa finds out The Truth, and is immediately put out of commission. Anna plays the hero, saves the day... and then its decided that Elsa belongs in The North, and we get Game of Thrones 2.0 where Anna takes the crown instead.

But theres no buildup to Elsa staying! Oh, Magic is from this enchanted forest thats a hop skip and a jump from the castle, but then it takes a day to get there by horse, but then Elsa manages to make it back (from an island thats far from the forest, but also apparently visible from the horizon) just in time to prevent water from a broken dam from Enchanted Forest. she doesnt even really have a conversation with Natives (and well get to the Natives later, maybe). Oh, Elsa saves the kingdom, has her big triumphant moment and then its all like Oh, yeah, guess you should stay here, lady. But its okay because you can come back whenever you want, in fact come to our little family game night in 3 days.

Elsa says that it's not just her, because both her and Anna are their mother's daughters. It makes sense that the fifth element (multipass) with the ice powers should live with all the elements and the people that are more close to them culturally. And their mom had some sort of importance with the older tribe or something.

Elsa got there fast cause she was riding the water element horse thing. You'd think the water element could out run normal water.

Why does Elsa living someplace else make it weird to invite her to game night? When you move out of your parents house are you supposed to not get invited to them anymore?

PK_Spam posted...

Did I miss why Elsa got Frozen Hearted after finding The Truth? Because it just sorta happens as a way to get her out of the picture so Anna has a harder time doing The Thing and saving the day.

The whole point was that the dam was hurting the land, since Elsa is the fifth spirit she also gets the same effects because of it while she's there. That's why once the dam is broken, she's able to come back.
---

I dont understand how people can post criticisms/opinions, and the FIRST thing other people think to do is to go point by point and debunk everything the other person said. Youre probably very annoying to your family. Im going to explain some of what I said, but Im not hearing it if you wanna But youre wrong because...

AllstarSniper32 posted...

Him just "coming back" is the conclusion. They've both been there all along. She even apologizes for leaving him behind. What were you really expecting?

Okay? You dont take time to set something up as a characters whole arc (in a movie that was already too short and was meta about everyone changing) and then dismiss it at the end with a Oh bb, I know I wasnt paying attention to you for 60% of this movie but I really love you for realsies. Sry kthx.

Its okay Im not fragile :0

It was dumb when the Fosters Home for Imaginary Friends finale movie did it. And its dumb here.

AllstarSniper32 posted...

Why does Elsa living someplace else make it weird to invite her to game night? When you move out of your parents house are you supposed to not get invited to them anymore?

Its weird because they wanted there to be some emotional weight to Elsa staying back, but it has the weird Beauty and the Beast problem where sometimes Enchanted Forest is a whole days trip away, and sometimes it takes like 5 minutes from water from a broken dam to go from there to Arandale. (the villagers in BatB literally get to the castle in a few minutes even! Its super weird)

Anna gives Elsa this big emotionally charged hug like Im gonna miss you so much! But then they double back on it. Oh btw, I know youre gonna have this big important role that were not specifying, but come to my party in a few days, sis! It doesnt gel with what the narrative tells us to feel. They got to have their cake and eat it too.

I still think the whole Natives thing is dumb. I assumed they were all benders or something. But it turns out theyre just in turn with the elements or some shit, which is... uh... okay. And Im nitpicking here, so take this with a grain of salt. Geographically, it doesnt make sense that they look so different than everyone else. And it DEFINITELY makes no sense that Anna and Elsas mom doesnt look Native (yes I know theyre based on the Sami people) when everyone else in that tribe is explicitly coded in design to look the way they do. Down to the eye shape and skin color.

Conspiracy theory time: I genuinely feel like Anna and Elsa got retconned to be half native so nobody could say this was a white savior narrative.

Another nitpick. Also, what was their dear old racist grandfather even going to about the stone giants. The dam didnt weaken them, it just made them super irritable. Was he seriously planning on wiping out Natives and then leaving it at that? Theres this white man and colonialism bad thing going on, and yes, I know this is a Thanksgiving movie, but it doesnt do anything for the narrative as a whole. Its just paying lip service to the idea of genociding natives without actually going into the nitty gritty of it all. Is Arandale gonna start paying reparations for this? It wouldve made sense if the tidal wave JUST wiped out the castle, because it looked like it wasnt going to even hit the town, but Elsa just solves the problem and everyone lives happily ever after and nobody talks about the bigger issue, which... fine. Its Disney.

But youd think they learned their lesson from Pocahontas. And Pocahontas unofficial remake, Moana.

---

PK_Spam posted...

Youre probably very annoying to your family.

He disagrees with you, so he must be annoying to his family? Thats a pretty big leap. Sometimes, people just dont agree or see things the same way...
---

Link, sometimes I genuinely believe you dont actually read the things people write, and just talk to hear yourself speak.

---

PK_Spam posted...

Link, sometimes I genuinely believe you dont actually read the things people write, and just talk to hear yourself speak.

How many times did your mom or dad say the exact same thing to you?
---

PK_Spam posted...

Okay? You dont take time to set something up as a characters whole arc (in a movie that was already too short and was meta about everyone changing) and then dismiss it at the end with a Oh bb, I know I wasnt paying attention to you for 60% of this movie but I really love you for realsies. Sry kthx.

Not everything that's set up needs long resolutions. Kristoff literally comes back and say "I'm here. What do you need?" When Anna needs him and she apologizes for leaving him behind. Resolved. That's why I asked what you were expecting cause to me that was enough resolution for their problem. Not because you're wrong, just wondering what you would have preferred.

PK_Spam posted...

Its weird because they wanted there to be some emotional weight to Elsa staying back, but it has the weird Beauty and the Beast problem where sometimes Enchanted Forest is a whole days trip away, and sometimes it takes like 5 minutes from water from a broken dam to go from there to Arandale. (the villagers in BatB literally get to the castle in a few minutes even! Its super weird)

Well to get to the village you have to take a road being pulled by an animal or maybe walking while getting to Arendale you just have to go down stream. Which I would think would be faster than going by road.

PK_Spam posted...

Anna gives Elsa this big emotionally charged hug like Im gonna miss you so much! But then they double back on it. Oh btw, I know youre gonna have this big important role that were not specifying, but come to my party in a few days, sis! It doesnt gel with what the narrative tells us to feel. They got to have their cake and eat it too.

Yeah I can understand this. I feel like it could also just be that we have no idea how much time has passed after the events. It doesn't seem like much has passed, but I can understand Anna's position. She spent a long time with Elsa being shut up in her room and then the events of the first movie happened and she finally got her sister back and they were having a grand time. Now her sister is not going to be living there anymore.

PK_Spam posted...

And Im nitpicking here, so take this with a grain of salt. Geographically, it doesnt make sense that they look so different than everyone else.

Hmm, I don't think they said how long the natives were there for. I just assumed it was like America where the natives were already there and then the people migrated in.

PK_Spam posted...

I dont understand how people can post criticisms/opinions, and the FIRST thing other people think to do is to go point by point and debunk everything the other person said.

Well, what else are people supposed to do?
---

PK_Spam posted...

Youre probably very annoying to your family.

I get the feeling the converse is true.
---

PK_Spam posted...

Link, sometimes I genuinely believe you dont actually read the things people write, and just talk to hear yourself speak.

Well, I cant hear myself speak when typing, so that wouldnt work. What makes you say that, anyway? Again, sounds like you just dont like it when people dont agree with you...
---

PK_Spam posted...

Conspiracy theory time: I genuinely feel like Anna and Elsa got retconned to be half native so nobody could say this was a white savior narrative.

I buy this.
---