Current Events > Ta-Nahesi Coates writes a great piece on Colin Kaepernick and cancel culture

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BeantownHero 11/23/19 5:51:59 PM #1:	https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/22/opinion/colin-kaepernick-nfl.html We are being told of the evils of cancel culture, a new scourge that enforces purity, banishes dissent and squelches sober and reasoned debate. But cancel culture is not new. A brief accounting of the illustrious and venerable ranks of blocked and dragged Americans encompasses Sarah Good, Elijah Lovejoy, Ida B. Wells, Dalton Trumbo, Paul Robeson and the Dixie Chicks. What was the Compromise of 1877, which ended Reconstruction, but the cancellation of the black South? What were the detention camps during World War II but the racist muting of Japanese-Americans and their basic rights? Thus any sober assessment of this history must conclude that the present objections to cancel culture are not so much concerned with the weapon, as the kind of people who now seek to wield it.Until recently, cancellation flowed exclusively downward, from the powerful to the powerless. But now, in this era of fallen gatekeepers, where anyone with a Twitter handle or Facebook account can be a publisher, banishment has been ostensibly democratized. This development has occasioned much consternation. Scarcely a day goes by without Americas college students being reproached for rejecting poorly rendered sushi or spurning the defenders of statutory rape. Speaking as one who has felt the hot wrath of Twitter, I am not without sympathy for the morally panicked who fear that the kids are not all right. But it is good to remember that while every generation believes that it invented sex, every preceding generation forgets that it once believed the same thing. Besides, all cancellations are not created equal. Christine Blasey Ford, who accused Brett Kavanaugh at his Supreme Court confirmation hearings of sexual assault, was inundated with death threats, forced from her home and driven into hiding. Dave Chappelle, accused of transphobia, collected millions from Netflix for a series of stand-up specials and got his feelings hurt. It would be nice to live in a more forgiving world, one where dissenting from groupthink does not invite exile and peoples occasional lapses are not held up as evidence of who they are. But if we are to construct such a world, we would do well to leave the slight acts of cancellation effected in the quad and cafe, and proceed to more illustrious offices. The N.F.L. is revered in this country as a paragon of patriotism and chivalry, a sacred trust controlled by some of the wealthiest men and women in America. For the past three years, this sacred trust has executed, with brutal efficiency, the cancellation of Colin Kaepernick. This is curious given the N.F.L.s moral libertinism; the league has, at various points, been a home for domestic abusers, child abusers and open racists. And yet it seems Mr. Kaepernicks sin refusing to stand for the national anthem offends the N.F.L.s suddenly delicate sensibilities. And while the influence of hashtags should not be underestimated, the N.F.L. has a different power at its fingertips: the power of monopoly. Effectively, Mr. Kaepernicks cancellation bars him from making a living at a skill he has been honing since childhood. --- nothing is a greater tell of an awful human than using "social justice warrior" as a pejorative. without exception.- Bomani Jones <cite>BeantownHero posted [p:930592028] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/22/opinion/colin-kaepernick-nfl.html <quote>We are being told of the evils of cancel culture, a new scourge that enforces purity, banishes dissent and squelches sober and reasoned debate. But cancel culture is not new. A brief accounting of the illustrious and venerable ranks of blocked and dragged Americans encompasses Sarah Good, Elijah Lovejoy, Ida B. Wells, Dalton Trumbo, Paul Robeson and the Dixie Chicks. What was the Compromise of 1877, which ended Reconstruction, but the cancellation of the black South? What were the detention camps during World War II but the racist muting of Japanese-Americans and their basic rights? Thus any sober assessment of this history must conclude that the present objections to cancel culture are not so much concerned with the weapon, as the kind of people who now seek to wield it.Until recently, cancellation flowed exclusively downward, from the powerful to the powerless. But now, in this era of fallen gatekeepers, where anyone with a Twitter handle or Facebook account can be a publisher, banishment has been ostensibly democratized. This development has occasioned much consternation. Scarcely a day goes by without Americas college students being reproached for rejecting poorly rendered sushi or spurning the defenders of statutory rape. Speaking as one who has felt the hot wrath of Twitter, I am not without sympathy for the morally panicked who fear that the kids are not all right. But it is good to remember that while every generation believes that it invented sex, every preceding generation forgets that it once believed the same thing. Besides, all cancellations are not created equal. Christine Blasey Ford, who accused Brett Kavanaugh at his Supreme Court confirmation hearings of sexual assault, was inundated with death threats, forced from her home and driven into hiding. Dave Chappelle, accused of transphobia, collected millions from Netflix for a series of stand-up specials and got his feelings hurt.</quote> <quote>It would be nice to live in a more forgiving world, one where dissenting from groupthink does not invite exile and peoples occasional lapses are not held up as evidence of who they are. But if we are to construct such a world, we would do well to leave the slight acts of cancellation effected in the quad and cafe, and proceed to more illustrious offices. The N.F.L. is revered in this country as a paragon of patriotism and chivalry, a sacred trust controlled by some of the wealthiest men and women in America. For the past three years, this sacred trust has executed, with brutal efficiency, the cancellation of Colin Kaepernick. This is curious given the N.F.L.s moral libertinism; the league has, at various points, been a home for domestic abusers, child abusers and open racists.</quote> <quote>And yet it seems Mr. Kaepernicks sin refusing to stand for the national anthem offends the N.F.L.s suddenly delicate sensibilities. And while the influence of hashtags should not be underestimated, the N.F.L. has a different power at its fingertips: the power of monopoly. Effectively, Mr. Kaepernicks cancellation bars him from making a living at a skill he has been honing since childhood.</quote> </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Antifar 11/23/19 5:55:35 PM #2:	Good take, imo --- kin to all that throbs <cite>Antifar posted [p:930592210] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>Good take, imo </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Milkman5 11/23/19 5:57:01 PM #3:	Kaepernick is not even a good quarterback <cite>Milkman5 posted [p:930592289] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>Kaepernick is not even a good quarterback </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BeantownHero 11/23/19 5:57:51 PM #4:	A sobering process that began with the broadcast beatings of civil rights marchers at Edmund Pettus Bridge in Selma in 1965, then accelerated with the recorded police brutality against Rodney King, has achieved its zenith with the social media sharing of the executions of Walter Scott, Laquan McDonald and Daniel Shaver. Mr. Trumps boasting of sexual assault proved no barrier to the White House. Roger Ailess career as a media exec was but a cover for his true calling, sexual coercion. Bill Cosby, once exalted as Americas dad, was unmasked as a mass rapist. The new cancel culture is the product of a generation born into a world without obscuring myth, where the great abuses, once only hinted at, suspected or uttered on street corners, are now tweeted out in full color. Nothing is sacred anymore, and, more important, nothing is legitimate least of all those institutions charged with dispensing justice. And so, justice is seized by the crowd. This is suboptimal. The choice now would seem to be between building egalitarian institutions capable of withstanding public scrutiny, or further retreat into a dissembling fog. The N.F.L. has chosen the latter option. First there was the notion that Mr. Kaepernick was not good enough to play in the league. When this fiction collapsed under the weight of injury and journeymen pulled off the streets, the N.F.L. conjured up a distraction. Whatever one thinks of Jay-Zs partnership with the league, what it achieved was the replacement of the name of the N.F.L. commissioner, Roger Goodell, by Jay-Zs headlines. And then last week there was the rushed tryout, the details of which are still murky. But what followed was a debate over Mr. Kaepernicks comportment, attire and what he had to say. The debate helped obscure this central fact a multibillion-dollar monopoly is, at this very hour, denying a worker the right to ply his trade and lying about doing so. It has been said that Colin Kaepernick missed an opportunity, that no matter how crooked the bargain, if he were truly serious about getting a job, he would have acceded to the N.F.L.s demands. But Mr. Kaepernick is not fighting for a job. He is fighting against cancellation. And his struggle is not merely his own it is the struggle of Major Taylor, Jack Johnson, Craig Hodges and Muhammad Ali. This isnt a fight for employment at any cost. It is a fight for a world where we are not shot, or shunned, because the masters of capital, or their agents, do not like our comportment, our attire or what we have to say. --- nothing is a greater tell of an awful human than using "social justice warrior" as a pejorative. without exception.- Bomani Jones <cite>BeantownHero posted [p:930592329] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote><quote>A sobering process that began with the broadcast beatings of civil rights marchers at Edmund Pettus Bridge in Selma in 1965, then accelerated with the recorded police brutality against Rodney King, has achieved its zenith with the social media sharing of the executions of Walter Scott, Laquan McDonald and Daniel Shaver. Mr. Trumps boasting of sexual assault proved no barrier to the White House. Roger Ailess career as a media exec was but a cover for his true calling, sexual coercion. Bill Cosby, once exalted as Americas dad, was unmasked as a mass rapist. The new cancel culture is the product of a generation born into a world without obscuring myth, where the great abuses, once only hinted at, suspected or uttered on street corners, are now tweeted out in full color. Nothing is sacred anymore, and, more important, nothing is legitimate least of all those institutions charged with dispensing justice. And so, justice is seized by the crowd. This is suboptimal. The choice now would seem to be between building egalitarian institutions capable of withstanding public scrutiny, or further retreat into a dissembling fog. The N.F.L. has chosen the latter option. First there was the notion that Mr. Kaepernick was not good enough to play in the league. When this fiction collapsed under the weight of injury and journeymen pulled off the streets, the N.F.L. conjured up a distraction. Whatever one thinks of Jay-Zs partnership with the league, what it achieved was the replacement of the name of the N.F.L. commissioner, Roger Goodell, by Jay-Zs headlines.</quote> <quote>And then last week there was the rushed tryout, the details of which are still murky. But what followed was a debate over Mr. Kaepernicks comportment, attire and what he had to say. The debate helped obscure this central fact a multibillion-dollar monopoly is, at this very hour, denying a worker the right to ply his trade and lying about doing so. It has been said that Colin Kaepernick missed an opportunity, that no matter how crooked the bargain, if he were truly serious about getting a job, he would have acceded to the N.F.L.s demands. But Mr. Kaepernick is not fighting for a job. He is fighting against cancellation. And his struggle is not merely his own it is the struggle of Major Taylor, Jack Johnson, Craig Hodges and Muhammad Ali. This isnt a fight for employment at any cost. It is a fight for a world where we are not shot, or shunned, because the masters of capital, or their agents, do not like our comportment, our attire or what we have to say.</quote> </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheGleamEyes 11/23/19 6:03:50 PM #5:	Opinion piece -Topic list <cite>TheGleamEyes posted [p:930592574] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>Opinion piece -Topic list</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HylianFox 11/23/19 6:03:51 PM #6:	Milkman5 posted... Kaepernick is not even a good quarterback BeantownHero posted... First there was the notion that Mr. Kaepernick was not good enough to play in the league. --- I like my beer cold, my TV loud, and my homosexuals FUH-LAMING! - Homer Simpson Don't be a turd. - Chris Pratt <cite>HylianFox posted [p:930592576] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>Milkman5 posted... </cite> <quote>Kaepernick is not even a good quarterback</quote> BeantownHero posted... </cite> <quote>First there was the notion that Mr. Kaepernick was not good enough to play in the league.</quote> </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HylianFox 11/23/19 6:04:30 PM #7:	conservatives really are obsessed with Kaepernick, aren't they? jesus --- I like my beer cold, my TV loud, and my homosexuals FUH-LAMING! - Homer Simpson Don't be a turd. - Chris Pratt <cite>HylianFox posted [p:930592605] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>conservatives really are obsessed with Kaepernick, aren't they? jesus </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ThePrinceFish 11/23/19 6:05:45 PM #8:	HylianFox posted... conservatives really are obsessed with Kaepernick, aren't they? jesus How is an ultra-biased article in favor of Kaepernick by a joke leftist evidence of some kind of conservative obsession --- Dielman on Rivers: "I've tried to get him to say s--- or f--- and all he'll ever do is say 'Golly gee, I can't do that" Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? <cite>ThePrinceFish posted [p:930592656] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>HylianFox posted...</cite> <quote>conservatives really are obsessed with Kaepernick, aren't they? jesus </quote> How is an ultra-biased article in favor of Kaepernick by a joke leftist evidence of some kind of conservative obsession</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
legendary_zell 11/23/19 6:06:13 PM #9:	Correct, as he quite often tends to be. People with power have been cancelling those who challenge them, who make them uncomfortable, who's attitudes they don't like, who have gotten uppity. They've been doing it unchecked for centuries. They're still doing it now. Few have a problem with it. Walmart threatens to cancel and blacklist people and whole towns for daring to unionize and it goes by without a peep. But the idea that some rando on Twitter could point out your shitty views and make people like you less is the death of liberty and free thought in our society. --- https://imgur.com/0Bi86cp <cite>legendary_zell posted [p:930592679] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>Correct, as he quite often tends to be. People with power have been cancelling those who challenge them, who make them uncomfortable, who's attitudes they don't like, who have gotten uppity. They've been doing it unchecked for centuries. They're still doing it now. Few have a problem with it. Walmart threatens to cancel and blacklist people and whole towns for daring to unionize and it goes by without a peep. But the idea that some rando on Twitter could point out your shitty views and make people like you less is the death of liberty and free thought in our society.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TroutPaste 11/23/19 6:06:16 PM #10:	tag He's a solid writer (own one of his books) --- https://steamcommunity.com/id/4leaf440/ https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/1488-free-games <cite>TroutPaste posted [p:930592681] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>tag He's a solid writer (own one of his books)</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
GodardOnGodard 11/23/19 6:06:54 PM #11:	ThePrinceFish posted... HylianFox posted... conservatives really are obsessed with Kaepernick, aren't they? jesus How is an ultra-biased article in favor of Kaepernick by a joke leftist evidence of some kind of conservative obsession Ta-Nahesi Coates is one of the preeminent writers in American letters today @ThePrinceFish --- http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/8015/joelrapie9.gif <cite>GodardOnGodard posted [p:930592711] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>ThePrinceFish posted...</cite> <quote>HylianFox posted...</cite> <quote>conservatives really are obsessed with Kaepernick, aren't they? jesus </quote> How is an ultra-biased article in favor of Kaepernick by a joke leftist evidence of some kind of conservative obsession</quote> Ta-Nahesi Coates is one of the preeminent writers in American letters today @ThePrinceFish</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
flobbyg 11/23/19 6:09:09 PM #12:	HylianFox posted... Milkman5 posted... Kaepernick is not even a good quarterback BeantownHero posted... First there was the notion that Mr. Kaepernick was not good enough to play in the league. He was on my fantasy roster in 2014. He was a pretty good, albeit inexperienced, quarterback --- It's about to go down... <cite>flobbyg posted [p:930592805] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>HylianFox posted...</cite> <quote>Milkman5 posted... </cite> <quote>Kaepernick is not even a good quarterback</quote> BeantownHero posted... </cite> <quote>First there was the notion that Mr. Kaepernick was not good enough to play in the league.</quote> </quote> He was on my fantasy roster in 2014. He was a pretty good, albeit inexperienced, quarterback</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
legendary_zell 11/23/19 6:10:02 PM #13:	ThePrinceFish posted... HylianFox posted... conservatives really are obsessed with Kaepernick, aren't they? jesus How is an ultra-biased article in favor of Kaepernick by a joke leftist evidence of some kind of conservative obsession If Coates is a joke leftist, I wonder what that makes you? Especially considering that the sounds he vomits into the toilet on his drunkest day have more value than anything you or your ilk have ever posted on this board. It's well known that Kaep, AOC, and Ilhan Omar live rent free in the minds of all of y'all. --- https://imgur.com/0Bi86cp <cite>legendary_zell posted [p:930592838] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>ThePrinceFish posted...</cite> <quote>HylianFox posted...</cite> <quote>conservatives really are obsessed with Kaepernick, aren't they? jesus </quote> How is an ultra-biased article in favor of Kaepernick by a joke leftist evidence of some kind of conservative obsession</quote> If Coates is a joke leftist, I wonder what that makes you? Especially considering that the sounds he vomits into the toilet on his drunkest day have more value than anything you or your ilk have ever posted on this board. It's well known that Kaep, AOC, and Ilhan Omar live rent free in the minds of all of y'all.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ThePrinceFish 11/23/19 6:10:37 PM #14:	legendary_zell posted... ThePrinceFish posted... HylianFox posted... conservatives really are obsessed with Kaepernick, aren't they? jesus How is an ultra-biased article in favor of Kaepernick by a joke leftist evidence of some kind of conservative obsession If Coates is a joke leftist, I wonder what that makes you? Especially considering that the sounds he vomits into the toilet on his drunkest day have more value than anything you or your ilk have ever posted on this board. It's well known that Kaep, AOC, and Ilhan Omar live rent free in the minds of all of y'all. Lmao whatever you say. Coates is FrisbeeDude with a job rather than a racist message board gimmick. --- Dielman on Rivers: "I've tried to get him to say s--- or f--- and all he'll ever do is say 'Golly gee, I can't do that" Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? <cite>ThePrinceFish posted [p:930592867] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>legendary_zell posted...</cite> <quote>ThePrinceFish posted...</cite> <quote>HylianFox posted...</cite> <quote>conservatives really are obsessed with Kaepernick, aren't they? jesus </quote> How is an ultra-biased article in favor of Kaepernick by a joke leftist evidence of some kind of conservative obsession</quote> If Coates is a joke leftist, I wonder what that makes you? Especially considering that the sounds he vomits into the toilet on his drunkest day have more value than anything you or your ilk have ever posted on this board. It's well known that Kaep, AOC, and Ilhan Omar live rent free in the minds of all of y'all.</quote> Lmao whatever you say. Coates is FrisbeeDude with a job rather than a racist message board gimmick.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Awesome 11/23/19 6:10:48 PM #15:	https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2725504-colin-kaepernicks-girlfriend-nessa-diab-tweets-django-comparison-at-ray-lewis this is why the nfl doesnt want anything to do with colin, if his girlfriend didnt open her mouth and said something racist he most likely would have been playing already if he went back to when he was good. --- Hello. <cite>Awesome posted [p:930592878] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2725504-colin-kaepernicks-girlfriend-nessa-diab-tweets-django-comparison-at-ray-lewis this is why the nfl doesnt want anything to do with colin, if his girlfriend didnt open her mouth and said something racist he most likely would have been playing already if he went back to when he was good.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
konokonohamaru 11/23/19 6:13:59 PM #16:	What drivel. The only person responsible for cancelling Kaepernick is Kaepernick. --- A very happy young man looking forward to a bright and wonderful future. <cite>konokonohamaru posted [p:930593003] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>What drivel. The only person responsible for cancelling Kaepernick is Kaepernick.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Proto_Spark 11/23/19 6:27:39 PM #17:	Awesome posted... https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2725504-colin-kaepernicks-girlfriend-nessa-diab-tweets-django-comparison-at-ray-lewis this is why the nfl doesnt want anything to do with colin, if his girlfriend didnt open her mouth and said something racist he most likely would have been playing already if he went back to when he was good. Also earlier this year the Seahawks were looking at him and upon asking him if he's gonna cause any more attention, he answered "idk" which seems like a bad answer. A Yes would be better than i don't know, becasue an i don't know sounds like hes got something bad planned and can't tell you about it. Not to mention he had a tryout with most teams like a week ago, and then suddenly changed the time and place of the tryout, so most teams didn't bother coming. https://www-1.thenewstribune.com/sports/nfl/seattle-seahawks/article237520869.html I think Kaep doesn't even want to play football anymore now that he has that sweet Nike deal money. <cite>Proto_Spark posted [p:930593607] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>Awesome posted...</cite> <quote>https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2725504-colin-kaepernicks-girlfriend-nessa-diab-tweets-django-comparison-at-ray-lewis this is why the nfl doesnt want anything to do with colin, if his girlfriend didnt open her mouth and said something racist he most likely would have been playing already if he went back to when he was good.</quote> Also earlier this year the Seahawks were looking at him and upon asking him if he's gonna cause any more attention, he answered "idk" which seems like a bad answer. A Yes would be better than i don't know, becasue an i don't know sounds like hes got something bad planned and can't tell you about it. Not to mention he had a tryout with most teams like a week ago, and then suddenly changed the time and place of the tryout, so most teams didn't bother coming. https://www-1.thenewstribune.com/sports/nfl/seattle-seahawks/article237520869.html I think Kaep doesn't even want to play football anymore now that he has that sweet Nike deal money.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BeantownHero 11/24/19 1:19:16 AM #18:	GodardOnGodard posted... Ta-Nahesi Coates is one of the preeminent writers in American letters today @ThePrinceFish Disagreeing with Coates is one thing...calling him a "Joke leftist" is a good way to render your opinions irrelevant --- nothing is a greater tell of an awful human than using "social justice warrior" as a pejorative. without exception.- Bomani Jones <cite>BeantownHero posted [p:930609993] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>GodardOnGodard posted... </cite> <quote>Ta-Nahesi Coates is one of the preeminent writers in American letters today @ThePrinceFish</quote> Disagreeing with Coates is one thing...calling him a "Joke leftist" is a good way to render your opinions irrelevant </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Delirious_Beard 11/24/19 1:29:28 AM #20:	i don't really know if there's precedent for a guy that accomplished what kap did getting denied an NFL job --- https://imgur.com/HUHxlFl You act like I don't know my own way home <cite>Delirious_Beard posted [p:930610296] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>i don't really know if there's precedent for a guy that accomplished what kap did getting denied an NFL job</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lorenzo_2003 11/24/19 1:40:08 AM #21:	CrimsonRage posted... yep. conservatives don't hate cancel culture, they hate that liberals have gotten better at it. Wait, I thought you said you were Muslim? Wouldn't that be ultra conservative by default, though not necessarily US Republican? --- ... <cite>Lorenzo_2003 posted [p:930610649] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>CrimsonRage posted...</cite> <quote>yep. conservatives don't hate cancel culture, they hate that liberals have gotten better at it.</quote> Wait, I thought you said you were Muslim? Wouldn't that be ultra conservative by default, though not necessarily US Republican?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
2Privileged4U 11/24/19 1:45:00 AM #23:	CrimsonRage posted... yep. conservatives don't hate cancel culture, they hate that liberals have gotten better at it. It's no longer fun when the rabbit has the gun --- "Give me Liberty or give me death!" -Melania Trump <cite>2Privileged4U posted [p:930610770] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>CrimsonRage posted...</cite> <quote>yep. conservatives don't hate cancel culture, they hate that liberals have gotten better at it.</quote> It's no longer fun when the rabbit has the gun</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Philosopher_X 11/24/19 1:46:53 AM #24:	Good read, good read Lorenzo_2003 posted... CrimsonRage posted... yep. conservatives don't hate cancel culture, they hate that liberals have gotten better at it. Wait, I thought you said you were Muslim? Wouldn't that be ultra conservative by default, though not necessarily US Republican? Wtf does this have to do with the topic? Take your games elsewhere. --- Don't over complicate the obvious. Don't oversimplify the intricate. <cite>Philosopher_X posted [p:930610821] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>Good read, good read Lorenzo_2003 posted...</cite> <quote> CrimsonRage posted...</cite> <quote> yep. conservatives don't hate cancel culture, they hate that liberals have gotten better at it. </quote> Wait, I thought you said you were Muslim? Wouldn't that be ultra conservative by default, though not necessarily US Republican?</quote> Wtf does this have to do with the topic? Take your games elsewhere.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Gobstoppers12 11/24/19 1:47:02 AM #25:	BeantownHero posted... First there was the notion that Mr. Kaepernick was not good enough to play in the league This notion was true, and remains true, and that is where this story should end. --- I write Naruto Fanfiction. But I am definitely not a furry. <cite>Gobstoppers12 posted [p:930610826] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>BeantownHero posted...</cite> <quote>First there was the notion that Mr. Kaepernick was not good enough to play in the league</quote> This notion was true, and remains true, and that is where this story should end.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
berlyman101 11/24/19 1:51:23 AM #26:	Gobstoppers12 posted... This notion was true, and remains true, and that is where this story should end. In a league where Ryan Fitzpatrick and Joe Flacco start this is a sad lie. --- http://www.lukesurl.com/comics/2010-02-24-determinism.png <cite>berlyman101 posted [p:930610959] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>Gobstoppers12 posted... </cite> <quote>This notion was true, and remains true, and that is where this story should end.</quote> In a league where Ryan Fitzpatrick and Joe Flacco start this is a sad lie. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
iPhone_7 11/24/19 1:51:59 AM #27:	I thought cancel culture wasnt a thing --- Sig User Logic https://imgur.com/lA5fm7w <cite>iPhone_7 posted [p:930610970] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>I thought cancel culture wasnt a thing</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
gsninja 11/24/19 1:57:40 AM #28:	iPhone_7 posted... I thought cancel culture wasnt a thing In a time where anything and everything needs a label and a term, it unfortunately is. --- Switch FC: 1284-3127-1819 \| Street Fighter V IGN: CallMeMommy69 Life is like a box of chocolates; it doesn't last as long for fat people. <cite>gsninja posted [p:930611172] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>iPhone_7 posted...</cite> <quote>I thought cancel culture wasnt a thing</quote> In a time where anything and everything needs a label and a term, it unfortunately is.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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2Privileged4U 11/24/19 2:07:37 AM #31:	CrimsonRage posted... Lorenzo_2003 posted... CrimsonRage posted... yep. conservatives don't hate cancel culture, they hate that liberals have gotten better at it. Wait, I thought you said you were Muslim? Wouldn't that be ultra conservative by default, though not necessarily US Republican? no? i am not nor have i ever been a muslim. I read that in Clayton Bigsby's voice --- "Give me Liberty or give me death!" -Melania Trump <cite>2Privileged4U posted [p:930611433] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>CrimsonRage posted...</cite> <quote>Lorenzo_2003 posted...</cite> <quote> CrimsonRage posted...</cite> <quote> yep. conservatives don't hate cancel culture, they hate that liberals have gotten better at it. </quote> Wait, I thought you said you were Muslim? Wouldn't that be ultra conservative by default, though not necessarily US Republican?</quote> no? i am not nor have i ever been a muslim.</quote> I read that in Clayton Bigsby's voice</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
snake1989 11/24/19 2:12:33 AM #32:	Interesting article, but there are some parts that weren't well reasoned. He's not wrong that the powerful have always silenced people and suppressed dissent historically. But it kinda reads like whataboutism and "all politics is identity politics if you think about it" type of reasoning that attempts to obfuscate and deny the importance of the specific present-day issue that people are talking about when they use those terms. I think that makes this article an ineffective rebuttal to the wider claim that cancel culture is a very unique expression of the censorious urge that is presenting different problems due to its distinct features. The whole section talking about the NFL like it's a shadowy megacorporation, while not innacurate, also felt kind of incomplete in leaving out that equally huge megacorpations like Nike took the opposite "side" on Kaepernick. The NFL as a whole generated $8.7 billion in revenue in 2018. Nike made $36.4 billion in the same year. To drive that home further, Nike's gross profit that year was $16 billion, itself almost double the total raw revenue of the entire NFL. --- "A man chooses. A slave obeys."-Andrew Ryan <cite>snake1989 posted [p:930611567] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>Interesting article, but there are some parts that weren't well reasoned. He's not wrong that the powerful have always silenced people and suppressed dissent historically. But it kinda reads like whataboutism and "all politics is identity politics if you think about it" type of reasoning that attempts to obfuscate and deny the importance of the specific present-day issue that people are talking about when they use those terms. I think that makes this article an ineffective rebuttal to the wider claim that cancel culture is a very unique expression of the censorious urge that is presenting different problems due to its distinct features. The whole section talking about the NFL like it's a shadowy megacorporation, while not innacurate, also felt kind of incomplete in leaving out that equally huge megacorpations like Nike took the opposite "side" on Kaepernick. The NFL as a whole generated $8.7 billion in revenue in 2018. Nike made $36.4 billion in the same year. To drive that home further, Nike's gross profit that year was $16 billion, itself almost double the total raw revenue of the entire NFL.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Thunder_Dogg 11/24/19 2:17:14 AM #33:	It's usually not a good idea to conflate whataboutism with pointing out parallels from a different perspective --- What do you stand for? What do you stand against? Where do you draw the line? Figure it out! <cite>Thunder_Dogg posted [p:930611681] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>It's usually not a good idea to conflate whataboutism with pointing out parallels from a different perspective</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Philosopher_X 11/24/19 2:25:53 AM #34:	Too much critical thought went into that to be labeled as "whataboutism." A gross oversimplification and pretty fucked up. --- Don't over complicate the obvious. Don't oversimplify the intricate. <cite>Philosopher_X posted [p:930611899] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>Too much critical thought went into that to be labeled as "whataboutism." A gross oversimplification and pretty fucked up.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
snake1989 11/24/19 2:26:58 AM #35:	Thunder_Dogg posted... It's usually not a good idea to conflate whataboutism with pointing out parallels from a different perspective I don't know if I'd call them relevent parallels if what they're describing isn't really comparable beyond a superficial level. Saying "war was also morally questionable in Vietnam" in response to someone saying "drone strikes in populated areas seem morally questionable" isn't really a very meaningful response to the latter. Perhaps whataboutism isn't the correct term, but it sure sounded like whataboutism to me. --- "A man chooses. A slave obeys."-Andrew Ryan <cite>snake1989 posted [p:930611933] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>Thunder_Dogg posted...</cite> <quote>It's usually not a good idea to conflate whataboutism with pointing out parallels from a different perspective</quote> I don't know if I'd call them relevent parallels if what they're describing isn't really comparable beyond a superficial level. Saying "war was also morally questionable in Vietnam" in response to someone saying "drone strikes in populated areas seem morally questionable" isn't really a very meaningful response to the latter. Perhaps whataboutism isn't the correct term, but it sure sounded like whataboutism to me.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Philosopher_X 11/24/19 2:32:00 AM #36:	snake1989 posted... Thunder_Dogg posted... It's usually not a good idea to conflate whataboutism with pointing out parallels from a different perspective I don't know if I'd call them relevent parallels if what they're describing isn't really comparable beyond a superficial level. Saying "war was also morally questionable in Vietnam" in response to someone saying "drone strikes in populated areas seem morally questionable" isn't really a very meaningful response to the latter. Perhaps whataboutism isn't the correct term, but it sure sounded like whataboutism to me. Anything can be compared. Anything. Now you're conflating something being comparable to something being equal to, and that wasn't even his point. Please don't distort the message. It was very clear, and pointing out that something has been around for a long time is not a whataboutism. These terms keep getting thrown around way too loosely, and it's irresponsible. --- Don't over complicate the obvious. Don't oversimplify the intricate. <cite>Philosopher_X posted [p:930612069] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>snake1989 posted...</cite> <quote>Thunder_Dogg posted...</cite> <quote> It's usually not a good idea to conflate whataboutism with pointing out parallels from a different perspective</quote> I don't know if I'd call them relevent parallels if what they're describing isn't really comparable beyond a superficial level. Saying "war was also morally questionable in Vietnam" in response to someone saying "drone strikes in populated areas seem morally questionable" isn't really a very meaningful response to the latter. Perhaps whataboutism isn't the correct term, but it sure sounded like whataboutism to me.</quote> Anything can be compared. Anything. Now you're conflating something being comparable to something being equal to, and that wasn't even his point. Please don't distort the message. It was very clear, and pointing out that something has been around for a long time is not a whataboutism. These terms keep getting thrown around way too loosely, and it's irresponsible.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
snake1989 11/24/19 2:40:00 AM #37:	Philosopher_X posted... snake1989 posted... Thunder_Dogg posted... It's usually not a good idea to conflate whataboutism with pointing out parallels from a different perspective I don't know if I'd call them relevent parallels if what they're describing isn't really comparable beyond a superficial level. Saying "war was also morally questionable in Vietnam" in response to someone saying "drone strikes in populated areas seem morally questionable" isn't really a very meaningful response to the latter. Perhaps whataboutism isn't the correct term, but it sure sounded like whataboutism to me. Anything can be compared. Anything. Now you're conflating something being comparable to something being equal to, and that wasn't even his point. Please don't distort the message. It was very clear, and pointing out that something has been around for a long time is not a whataboutism. These terms keep getting thrown around way too loosely, and it's irresponsible. I'll accept if you don't like the use of that term, but I stand by his core argument being flawed: Any sober assessment of this history must conclude that the present objections to cancel culture are not so much concerned with the weapon, as the kind of people who now seek to wield it. This assertion completely ignores the possibility that the weapon itself changed, and that those changes have contributed to the problems with cancel culture that are unique to it. --- "A man chooses. A slave obeys."-Andrew Ryan <cite>snake1989 posted [p:930612306] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>Philosopher_X posted...</cite> <quote> snake1989 posted...</cite> <quote> Thunder_Dogg posted...</cite> <quote> It's usually not a good idea to conflate whataboutism with pointing out parallels from a different perspective </quote> I don't know if I'd call them relevent parallels if what they're describing isn't really comparable beyond a superficial level. Saying "war was also morally questionable in Vietnam" in response to someone saying "drone strikes in populated areas seem morally questionable" isn't really a very meaningful response to the latter. Perhaps whataboutism isn't the correct term, but it sure sounded like whataboutism to me. </quote> Anything can be compared. Anything. Now you're conflating something being comparable to something being equal to, and that wasn't even his point. Please don't distort the message. It was very clear, and pointing out that something has been around for a long time is not a whataboutism. These terms keep getting thrown around way too loosely, and it's irresponsible.</quote> I'll accept if you don't like the use of that term, but I stand by his core argument being flawed: <quote>Any sober assessment of this history must conclude that the present objections to cancel culture are not so much concerned with the weapon, as the kind of people who now seek to wield it.</quote> This assertion completely ignores the possibility that the weapon itself changed, and that those changes have contributed to the problems with cancel culture that are unique to it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Philosopher_X 11/24/19 2:50:04 AM #38:	The perspective part was already addressed earlier in #33. Cancel Culture has been around for a long time and the perspective changed when others started to wield that power. That's literally not a whataboutism. I don't care if you use the term, my issue comes from the MISUSE. It doesn't fit at all. You have to add something that wasn't there in order to make that connection. There's nothing to even clarify. You've distorted the entire message and appears to just be intellectual dishonesty... If I'm being honest. In a nutshell: The article isn't "they do it too!" The article is "Its BEEN going on for longer than you realize." --- Don't over complicate the obvious. Don't oversimplify the intricate. <cite>Philosopher_X posted [p:930612546] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>The perspective part was already addressed earlier in #33. Cancel Culture has been around for a long time and the perspective changed when others started to wield that power. That's literally not a whataboutism. I don't care if you use the term, my issue comes from the MISUSE. It doesn't fit at all. You have to add something that wasn't there in order to make that connection. There's nothing to even clarify. You've distorted the entire message and appears to just be intellectual dishonesty... If I'm being honest. In a nutshell: The article isn't "they do it too!" The article is "Its BEEN going on for longer than you realize."</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Thunder_Dogg 11/24/19 2:55:07 AM #39:	Using examples to support your argument is now Whataboutism. --- What do you stand for? What do you stand against? Where do you draw the line? Figure it out! <cite>Thunder_Dogg posted [p:930612670] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>Using examples to support your argument is now Whataboutism.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
snake1989 11/24/19 3:16:03 AM #40:	Philosopher_X posted... The perspective part was already addressed earlier in #33. Cancel Culture has been around for a long time and the perspective changed when others started to wield that power. That's literally not a whataboutism. I don't care if you use the term, my issue comes from the MISUSE. It doesn't fit at all. You have to add something that wasn't there in order to make that connection. There's nothing to even clarify. You've distorted the entire message and appears to just be intellectual dishonesty... If I'm being honest. In a nutshell: The article isn't "they do it too!" The article is "Its BEEN going on for longer than you realize." I'm certainly not trying to be. I agree with a lot of what he said, but I felt like he didn't fully deliver on his central argument and that bugs me. The exact technology that he says enabled more people of different social standings to cancel each other is also the technology that has enabled the effects of this cancellation, and general negativity and harassment, to travel further and faster than ever before. We also don't have an effective system in place currently to protect people from these effects if they are innocent of wrongdoing but have garnered negative publicity (such as his example of Dr. Ford). I also agree with him that similar things have been happening for as long as humans have existed, but to then conclude, as he does, that the only reason someone could object to this new form is because they dislike the wielders isn't a very well-argued point. It bothers me that someone like Dr. Ford receives mountains of death threats from thousands of anonymous people on the internet. It bothers me in a different way than the evils that tyrants and corrupt governments have inflicted in the past. And that isn't because of who wields it but because the effects are different, and occurring in different times. I think both are evil, but one is historical, and therefore can't be directly fixed. The other is happening right now, and it's not too late for people to do something to keep it from getting worse. --- "A man chooses. A slave obeys."-Andrew Ryan <cite>snake1989 posted [p:930613146] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>Philosopher_X posted...</cite> <quote>The perspective part was already addressed earlier in #33. Cancel Culture has been around for a long time and the perspective changed when others started to wield that power. That's literally not a whataboutism. I don't care if you use the term, my issue comes from the MISUSE. It doesn't fit at all. You have to add something that wasn't there in order to make that connection. There's nothing to even clarify. You've distorted the entire message and appears to just be intellectual dishonesty... If I'm being honest. In a nutshell: The article isn't "they do it too!" The article is "Its BEEN going on for longer than you realize."</quote> I'm certainly not trying to be. I agree with a lot of what he said, but I felt like he didn't fully deliver on his central argument and that bugs me. The exact technology that he says enabled more people of different social standings to cancel each other is also the technology that has enabled the effects of this cancellation, and general negativity and harassment, to travel further and faster than ever before. We also don't have an effective system in place currently to protect people from these effects if they are innocent of wrongdoing but have garnered negative publicity (such as his example of Dr. Ford). I also agree with him that similar things have been happening for as long as humans have existed, but to then conclude, as he does, that the only reason someone could object to this new form is because they dislike the wielders isn't a very well-argued point. It bothers me that someone like Dr. Ford receives mountains of death threats from thousands of anonymous people on the internet. It bothers me in a different way than the evils that tyrants and corrupt governments have inflicted in the past. And that isn't because of who wields it but because the effects are different, and occurring in different times. I think both are evil, but one is historical, and therefore can't be directly fixed. The other is happening right now, and it's not too late for people to do something to keep it from getting worse.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
snake1989 11/24/19 3:19:46 AM #41:	Thunder_Dogg posted... Using examples to support your argument is now Whataboutism. It can be that if the argument being supported is "people are worrying too much about X when Y is/was the real problem/injustice". And Coates' argument kinda dipped into that in spots. I think he's better than that and could have put forth a better argument as to why the critics of cancel culture aren't seeing the whole picture. --- "A man chooses. A slave obeys."-Andrew Ryan <cite>snake1989 posted [p:930613208] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>Thunder_Dogg posted...</cite> <quote>Using examples to support your argument is now Whataboutism.</quote> It can be that if the argument being supported is "people are worrying too much about X when Y is/was the real problem/injustice". And Coates' argument kinda dipped into that in spots. I think he's better than that and could have put forth a better argument as to why the critics of cancel culture aren't seeing the whole picture.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Philosopher_X 11/24/19 3:25:57 AM #42:	snake1989 posted... I also agree with him that similar things have been happening for as long as humans have existed, but to then conclude, as he does, that the only reason someone could object to this new form is because they dislike the wielders isn't a very well-argued point. I didn't get that at all. Mind sharing the exact quote that made you feel like he said ONLY? I feel like you're adding things that weren't even present in order to create an argument never made. I know the shoe fits many people, and those are the people he's referencing. It goes without saying that it's not about 100% of Americans. --- Don't over complicate the obvious. Don't oversimplify the intricate. <cite>Philosopher_X posted [p:930613350] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>snake1989 posted...</cite><quote> I also agree with him that similar things have been happening for as long as humans have existed, but to then conclude, as he does, that the only reason someone could object to this new form is because they dislike the wielders isn't a very well-argued point. </quote> I didn't get that at all. Mind sharing the exact quote that made you feel like he said ONLY? I feel like you're adding things that weren't even present in order to create an argument never made. I know the shoe fits many people, and those are the people he's referencing. It goes without saying that it's not about 100% of Americans.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ultimate reaver 11/24/19 3:37:49 AM #43:	CrimsonRage posted... yep. conservatives don't hate cancel culture, they hate that liberals have gotten better at it. liberals have not gotten better at cancel culture. if anything everyone has gotten worse at it. the range of things that will actually sink people is massively narrow nowadays --- butts <cite>ultimate reaver posted [p:930613592] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>CrimsonRage posted... </cite> <quote>yep. conservatives don't hate cancel culture, they hate that liberals have gotten better at it.</quote> liberals have not gotten better at cancel culture. if anything everyone has gotten worse at it. the range of things that will actually sink people is massively narrow nowadays </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Thunder_Dogg 11/24/19 3:40:31 AM #44:	When you create a monster and it snatches your weapon and aims it back at you. --- What do you stand for? What do you stand against? Where do you draw the line? Figure it out! <cite>Thunder_Dogg posted [p:930613647] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>When you create a monster and it snatches your weapon and aims it back at you.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
snake1989 11/24/19 3:48:14 AM #45:	Philosopher_X posted... snake1989 posted... I also agree with him that similar things have been happening for as long as humans have existed, but to then conclude, as he does, that the only reason someone could object to this new form is because they dislike the wielders isn't a very well-argued point. I didn't get that at all. Mind sharing the exact quote that made you feel like he said ONLY? I feel like you're adding things that weren't even present in order to create an argument never made. I know the shoe fits many people, and those are the people he's referencing. It goes without saying that it's not about 100% of Americans. This bit, although in fairness I did misspeak slightly. He doesn't use the word "only", but rather implies it strongly when he says that "any sober assessment must conclude" that criticism of cancel culture is a reaction against the democratization of cancel culture and against the people now wielding it. He doesn't even mention the possibility of other factors that might make someone, even someone who agrees with and likes the people wielding it, uneasy at the effects it can have. Thus any sober assessment of this history must conclude that the present objections to cancel culture are not so much concerned with the weapon, as the kind of people who now seek to wield it. Until recently, cancellation flowed exclusively downward, from the powerful to the powerless. But now, in this era of fallen gatekeepers, where anyone with a Twitter handle or Facebook account can be a publisher, banishment has been ostensibly democratized. This development has occasioned much consternation. --- "A man chooses. A slave obeys."-Andrew Ryan <cite>snake1989 posted [p:930613793] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>Philosopher_X posted...</cite> <quote> snake1989 posted...</cite> <quote> I also agree with him that similar things have been happening for as long as humans have existed, but to then conclude, as he does, that the only reason someone could object to this new form is because they dislike the wielders isn't a very well-argued point. </quote> I didn't get that at all. Mind sharing the exact quote that made you feel like he said ONLY? I feel like you're adding things that weren't even present in order to create an argument never made. I know the shoe fits many people, and those are the people he's referencing. It goes without saying that it's not about 100% of Americans.</quote> This bit, although in fairness I did misspeak slightly. He doesn't use the word "only", but rather implies it strongly when he says that "any sober assessment must conclude" that criticism of cancel culture is a reaction against the democratization of cancel culture and against the people now wielding it. He doesn't even mention the possibility of other factors that might make someone, even someone who agrees with and likes the people wielding it, uneasy at the effects it can have. <quote> Thus any sober assessment of this history must conclude that the present objections to cancel culture are not so much concerned with the weapon, as the kind of people who now seek to wield it. Until recently, cancellation flowed exclusively downward, from the powerful to the powerless. But now, in this era of fallen gatekeepers, where anyone with a Twitter handle or Facebook account can be a publisher, banishment has been ostensibly democratized. This development has occasioned much consternation.</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Philosopher_X 11/24/19 4:08:28 AM #46:	There are more than enough people who fit the bill for his argument to be on point, so its not like he's wrong. When the shoe fits, it should be worn. There's no need to defend those it applies to or try to extend it to people who don't fit the description when he was clearly talking about certain demographics, right? He'd have to include himself if he meant otherwise. I thought he was very clear and I don't see any reason to add extra content to his argument. I don't know what more to say. --- Don't over complicate the obvious. Don't oversimplify the intricate. <cite>Philosopher_X posted [p:930614234] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>There are more than enough people who fit the bill for his argument to be on point, so its not like he's wrong. When the shoe fits, it should be worn. There's no need to defend those it applies to or try to extend it to people who don't fit the description when he was clearly talking about certain demographics, right? He'd have to include himself if he meant otherwise. I thought he was very clear and I don't see any reason to add extra content to his argument. I don't know what more to say.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
snake1989 11/24/19 4:42:57 AM #47:	Philosopher_X posted... There are more than enough people who fit the bill for his argument to be on point, so its not like he's wrong. When the shoe fits, it should be worn. There's no need to defend those it applies to or try to extend it to people who don't fit the description when he was clearly talking about certain demographics, right? He'd have to include himself if he meant otherwise. I thought he was very clear and I don't see any reason to add extra content to his argument. I don't know what more to say. I get that, but if Coates was primarily intending to speak specifically about the racists/sexists who oppose cancel culture, then why did he not say so? Why did he paint virtually all criticism of cancel culture as originating from within that group, when even someone like president Obama has criticized cancel culture? Maybe I had too high of expectations based on the largely positive reactions toward the article in this thread. But if we take the interpretation that Coates' main thrust is "the people who oppose something because of racism rather than for principled reasons are bad", he's really not adding much to the conversation about cancel culture itself even though I would agree with that argument in isolation. --- "A man chooses. A slave obeys."-Andrew Ryan <cite>snake1989 posted [p:930614788] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>Philosopher_X posted...</cite> <quote>There are more than enough people who fit the bill for his argument to be on point, so its not like he's wrong. When the shoe fits, it should be worn. There's no need to defend those it applies to or try to extend it to people who don't fit the description when he was clearly talking about certain demographics, right? He'd have to include himself if he meant otherwise. I thought he was very clear and I don't see any reason to add extra content to his argument. I don't know what more to say.</quote> I get that, but if Coates was primarily intending to speak specifically about the racists/sexists who oppose cancel culture, then why did he not say so? Why did he paint virtually all criticism of cancel culture as originating from within that group, when even someone like president Obama has criticized cancel culture? Maybe I had too high of expectations based on the largely positive reactions toward the article in this thread. But if we take the interpretation that Coates' main thrust is "the people who oppose something because of racism rather than for principled reasons are bad", he's really not adding much to the conversation about cancel culture itself even though I would agree with that argument in isolation.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Philosopher_X 11/24/19 4:50:26 AM #48:	More straw man arguments? Nobody said anything about him talking specifically to racist/sexist. You keep adding content that isn't there and have gotten completely off base at this point. I shouldn't have expected anything less from CE. --- Don't over complicate the obvious. Don't oversimplify the intricate. <cite>Philosopher_X posted [p:930614916] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>More straw man arguments? Nobody said anything about him talking specifically to racist/sexist. You keep adding content that isn't there and have gotten completely off base at this point. I shouldn't have expected anything less from CE.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
snake1989 11/24/19 5:01:49 AM #49:	Philosopher_X posted... More straw man arguments? Nobody said anything about him talking specifically to racist/sexist. You keep adding content that isn't there and have gotten completely off base at this point. I shouldn't have expected anything less from CE. What am I strawmanning? Coates references several historical victims of racism in his opening paragraph. He asserts that the critics of cancel culture are ignoring these examples, and further asserts that they are opposing cancel culture because they dislike the "kind of people" who are using it. That he is characterizing them as bigots seems pretty clear-cut to me. --- "A man chooses. A slave obeys."-Andrew Ryan <cite>snake1989 posted [p:930615143] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>Philosopher_X posted...</cite> <quote>More straw man arguments? Nobody said anything about him talking specifically to racist/sexist. You keep adding content that isn't there and have gotten completely off base at this point. I shouldn't have expected anything less from CE.</quote> What am I strawmanning? Coates references several historical victims of racism in his opening paragraph. He asserts that the critics of cancel culture are ignoring these examples, and further asserts that they are opposing cancel culture because they dislike the "kind of people" who are using it. That he is characterizing them as bigots seems pretty clear-cut to me.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Philosopher_X 11/24/19 5:41:01 AM #50:	I'm drinking now, so maybe I'll get back to you later. But you're still distorting his messages and trying to trivialize his message as a whataboutism. If you're still stuck with that mindset, we'll just have to agree to disagree --- Don't over complicate the obvious. Don't oversimplify the intricate. <cite>Philosopher_X posted [p:930615796] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>I'm drinking now, so maybe I'll get back to you later. But you're still distorting his messages and trying to trivialize his message as a whataboutism. If you're still stuck with that mindset, we'll just have to agree to disagree</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Jagermeister513 11/24/19 5:50:47 AM #51:	Coates and Kaepernick are both race baiting trash. --- I keep the dope fiends higher than the Goodyear Blimp <cite>Jagermeister513 posted [p:930615942] in Ta-Nahesi ... [t:78191703]...</cite> <quote>Coates and Kaepernick are both race baiting trash.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Ta-Nahesi Coates writes a great piece on Colin Kaepernick and cancel culture (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Ta-Nahesi Coates writes a great piece on Colin Kaepernick and cancel culture