Current Events > You know a kind of misogynistic workplace thing that sucks for men the most?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Stress. How you're expected to handle stress, versus how women are allowed to handle stress.

Now to be fair I have worked in places where this isn't an issue, and I'm sure a lot of modern offices are wise to this, but I have also worked for some ass-backward places. And I swear to God it's always some paternalistic manager or Director who will give every woman in the office a mile and not allow the men an inch.

I used to work in a place with an MD like this. This guy was a sexist pig through and through, and one thing he loved doing is being the fucking hero any time a female employee had a problem. He would swoop in, save the day, and bring out a box of tissues in solidarity. All the girls had to do was turn on the waterworks or say they felt overwhelmed and bam - take two days off, I'll sort this for you, the client will understand.

Not me, or any of the guys though. Goddamn. If we felt overwhelmed, or stressed, or on the verge of tears (but never actually crying, because boys don't cry remember), then it was because we were bad at time management, or hadn't organised things well to begin with, or poor at prioritising. Admitting any of these problems was akin to saying "I'm bad at my job and it's about time you screamed at me". I wouldn't even dream of taking a sick day for "stress", despite the fact that there was one particular girl who was off about once a fortnight for stress.

I don't know if anyone here has had a similar experience, just felt like a vent.
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how is that misogynistic and not misandrystic
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Can confirm that I've seen women at work cry from stress, but never a man. Then again I can't imagine crying from being stressed.

Edit: I have seen gay men cry from stress
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"waah why do women have it easier"

Is that what today's sad excuse for men have become? I grew up in a place where guys got semi daily beatings. After that everything else is fair game.

Something is unfair? Tough. You deal with it and move on.
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Damn_Underscore posted...

how is that misogynistic and not misandrystic

Sexism isn't really about what's fundamentally good/bad for women/men, it's about seeing men/women as X and then treating them in such a way that is not equal (or more accurately, fair) based on that perception.

In this case, the guy treating women better wasn't because they deserved better or because he respects women. It was entirely rooted in his own fantasy of being the Daddy. He wanted to save them, because women are precious (in his mind), and need help to do basic tasks. Quite patronising really, even if it ultimately did mean the women were better off.
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saspa posted...

"waah why do women have it easier"

Is that what today's sad excuse for men have become? I grew up in a place where guys got semi daily beatings. After that everything else is fair game.

Something is unfair? Tough. You deal with it and move on.

This seems like a really stupid way to justify how an employer should treat employees.

Also for clarification, I did deal with it and move on (you know, because I'm an adult, but it still happened. We're just talking here.
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saspa posted...

"waah why do women have it easier"

Is that what today's sad excuse for men have become? I grew up in a place where guys got semi daily beatings. After that everything else is fair game.

Something is unfair? Tough. You deal with it and move on.

Literal toxic masculinity and double standards. And I don't even particularly like pointing these things out.

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being expected to do all the (light) manual labor because you're stronger

would be my answer

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pinky0926 posted...

Damn_Underscore posted...

how is that misogynistic and not misandrystic

Sexism isn't really about what's fundamentally good/bad for women/men, it's about seeing men/women as X and then treating them in such a way that is not equal (or more accurately, fair) based on that perception.

In this case, the guy treating women better wasn't because they deserved better or because he respects women. It was entirely rooted in his own fantasy of being the Daddy. He wanted to save them, because women are precious (in his mind), and need help to do basic tasks. Quite patronising really, even if it ultimately did mean the women were better off.

It's interesting how quickly you made a complete 180 and made women the victims in this scenario. Wonder if that's more of your "misogyny."

Annihilated posted...

pinky0926 posted...

Damn_Underscore posted...

how is that misogynistic and not misandrystic

Sexism isn't really about what's fundamentally good/bad for women/men, it's about seeing men/women as X and then treating them in such a way that is not equal (or more accurately, fair) based on that perception.

In this case, the guy treating women better wasn't because they deserved better or because he respects women. It was entirely rooted in his own fantasy of being the Daddy. He wanted to save them, because women are precious (in his mind), and need help to do basic tasks. Quite patronising really, even if it ultimately did mean the women were better off.

It's interesting how quickly you made a complete 180 and made women the victims in this scenario. Wonder if that's more of your "misogyny."

It's possible for the women to be better off in this scenario and for the man responsible to base his decisions on thinking women are more fragile than men. It's not really complicated.

But yes of course, then men were worse off, and treated in such a way that men shouldn't, which is also sexism. This is not an either/or thing.
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But if he can afford to give female employees off then he can afford to give male employees off too. But he won't.

I really doubt this guy "hates" either men or women. But his policies are beneficial to women and hurtful to men.
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dolomedes posted...

this is not my experience at all.

i've cried at work and i've taken personal days for mental health reasons. i've communicated with management that i've been brought to tears by the unneeded stress they allow to fall on their team members - i've also communicated that i've used sick pay just to have a day off to chill out.

you being uncomfortable with your emotional needs = a broken system that hurts men? okay

Sounds like you had/have a supportive work environment, which is good. My current workplace is more like this, which is also good.

I'm talking about someplace else though, and it's not the only time I've encountered it.
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Damn_Underscore posted...

But if he can afford to give female employees off then he can afford to give male employees off too. But he won't.

I really doubt this guy "hates" either men or women. But his policies are beneficial to women and hurtful to men.

He didn't hate women in the sense that he disliked them or wanted to beat them up or whatever. His policies were based on the idea that women are more fragile than men. That it was his job to look after them in such a way that he wouldn't extend to his male employees.
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I hear you man. Even if you're in a place where it shouldn't be an issue from a management perspective, you're still a man who was "brought up that way" and likely around men who for whom it was the same. Social pressure alone.

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pinky0926 posted...

how women are allowed to handle stress.

maybe you don't see it but the frequency with which personality traits are used on women's vs men's performance reviews to justify lesser raises suggests that while we are 'allowed' to handle stress in the ways you're describing, it is a trap and we are punished for it.
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dolomedes posted...

pinky0926 posted...

Sounds like you had/have a supportive work environment, which is good. My current workplace is more like this, which is also good.
I'm talking about someplace else though, and it's not the only time I've encountered it.

i can't tell you the number of people who collect unemployment after leaving my current employer, citing the place as a 'hostile work environment'

i've never worked under such awful management. i have zero support. it's why i've cried at work multiple times lmao

then you should report them. if its so horribly mismanaged that people are crying and quitting then someone higher up needs to be canned.
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Would you still be angry if his policies applied to all employees? Or would it be better if he said "deal with it" to all his employees?

Expecting men to just deal with stress isn't anti-female at all, it's anti-male. The reality is that women do benefit from his policies, and men would too if he offered those policies to men.
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dolomedes posted...

pinky0926 posted...

Sounds like you had/have a supportive work environment, which is good. My current workplace is more like this, which is also good.
I'm talking about someplace else though, and it's not the only time I've encountered it.

i can't tell you the number of people who collect unemployment after leaving my current employer, citing the place as a 'hostile work environment'

i've never worked under such awful management. i have zero support. it's why i've cried at work multiple times lmao

That's rough man.

Sackgurl posted...

pinky0926 posted...

how women are allowed to handle stress.

maybe you don't see it but the frequency with which personality traits are used on women's vs men's performance reviews to justify lesser raises suggests that while we are 'allowed' to handle stress in the ways you're describing, it is a trap and we are punished for it.

I hadn't considered that side of things actually.

Damn_Underscore posted...

Would you still be angry if his policies applied to all employees? Or would it be better if he said "deal with it" to all his employees?

Expecting men to just deal with stress isn't anti-female at all, it's anti-male. The reality is that women do benefit from his policies, and men would too if he offered those policies to men.

I think stress leave is legit and people shouldn't be punished for feeling stressed, basically. I was annoyed at how he had a different set of rules for girls and boys.

He had one particular favourite employee he was trying to bang that really took the piss with the whole thing. She'd get stress leave anytime things became slightly unpleasant. You know, because being at work and dealing with problems is always gonna be fun...
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What are peoples thoughts on this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoCG_DS2T6Y

I agree with the idea that while it may seem okay for women to cry at work, it's not considered a good look for those who want to advance in the company.
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Dress codes are pretty sexist too

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Yeah, men are given less compassion and sympathy than women but this extends past the office to nearly everything else in the world as well.
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EndOfDiscOne posted...

What are peoples thoughts on this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoCG_DS2T6Y

I agree with this, but it applies to everyone (although men don't cry as often).

Crying can obviously be genuine, but crying can also be used dishonestly. And there's nothing wrong with assuming that all crying is dishonest in the business world where your goal is to make money. You can be emotionally in a tough space and still talk about it rationally.
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hockeybub89 posted...

Dress codes are pretty sexist too

They can definitely be unbalanced when some people are forced to wear slacks and some people are allowed to wear yoga pants or ripped up jeans to work. Half of the workplace looks professional and half of it looks like it just woke up. Its not a men/women thing, but dress code inequality is something thats always pissed me off.
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All my female bosses have been awesome to me, male bosses, not so much.

I know it will sound insensitive and maybe it is, but if you are crying at work over stress, then maybe move on? I have had stressful jobs. One bad enough that I sought a therapist outside of work and even had a few panic attacks. And it was why I got out of that job. Neither men or women should be crying at work due to stress. That says a far more about that particular place of employment than it does anything being inherently sexist or not in society for how both sexes handle stress.

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hockeybub89 posted...

Dress codes are pretty sexist too

The dress code at Whole Foods is ridiculous and enforced in a really punitive manner. It's designed to specifically target stuff like leggings and yoga pants and is enforced really unevenly.
For example, it tends to be enforced much harder on women who are conventionally attractive, which tells you everything you need to know about it(literally they let the chubby white girl wear leggings or whatever without ever commenting on it, but my skinny black coworker got written up and sent home within the hour).

OP definitely happened and isn't just a fictitious projection of bias.
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