Current Events > Looks like The Rise of Skywalker is going to be an epic shit show.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Mr_MacPhisto posted...

Sadly, albeit expectedly, Disney made the new trilogy for the main purpose of vacuuming in as much cash from the general public as possible, especially kids.

Every Star Wars movie after the first one?

Star Wars, at least the movies, have always been a shallow good vs evil soap opera geared towards the lowest common denominator. And that's okay.

Seems like a lot of people just grew up on one Star Wars trilogy or the other and make them out to be more than they are.
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Mr_MacPhisto posted...

Sadly, albeit expectedly, Disney made the new trilogy for the main purpose of vacuuming in as much cash from the general public as possible, especially kids. Delivering something thoughtfully and carefully crafted for the most dedicated Star Wars fans was not important to them.

Putting people in charge of Star Wars that never actually cared about Star Wars could only have ended this way.

It's not like Episode VI wasn't shit up for the sole purpose of selling stupid fucking little bears as merchandise.
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Adam Driver is phenomenal tho.
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The only real great characters here are Kyle Katarn and his antagonist Desan I think his name was.
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Hairistotle posted...

i would be surprised if rian johnson was a star wars fan

why would that surprise you

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Hairistotle posted...

cuz i'd assume hes more so just passively aware of star wars as a thing

why tho

I realize I sound accusatory but I'm just genuinely curious. Most of what I read about him prior to 7 and 8 led me to believe he was

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Doom_Art posted...

Mr_MacPhisto posted...

Putting people in charge of Star Wars that never actually cared about Star Wars could only have ended this way.

I mean it would be a bit silly to suggest Abrams and Johnson are not Star Wars fans

In Abrams case it was his reason for directing the Star Trek reboot.

"I've fantasized about making a Star Wars movie since I was a kid and this is as close as I'll ever get"

Exactly. Kevin Smith (I think he was filling in for the actual host) even hosted a dinner show where he had famous guests join him. That episode, George Lucas and J.J. (before he was anywhere near the Star Wars franchise) were both present and J.J. was mirin' Lucas the whole time.
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Hairistotle posted...

i dont have anything solid for you. just based on the feeling TLJ left me with, i would be surprised to hear that johnson is a star wars fan

Alright then lol

Kitt posted...

Exactly. Kevin Smith (I think he was filling in for the actual host) even hosted a dinner show where he had famous guests join him. That episode, George Lucas and J.J. (before he was anywhere near the Star Wars franchise) were both present and J.J. was mirin' Lucas the whole time.

Yeah it's JJ and Dave Filoni who are the big superfans involved with the franchise now. Both seem to have a pretty good handle on how things should work.


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I was speaking less about the JJ's of the world involved in the process, and more about the Kennedy's and such when it comes to people who don't care about Star Wars.

Even still, for as much of a fan as Abrams was, he played it incredibly safe with TFA. Which is fine if you're into that, but for me he didn't bring anything to the table that any other director couldn't have done just as well.
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Ah yes naturally it always comes back to Kennedy

The role she plays in the management of Lucasfilm is different from what I think a lot of people criticizing her seem to think it is.

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I will agree on TFA playing things very safe though.

I think that's part of the reason for why I admire bits of TLJ so much.

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I think Rian Johnson gets Star Wars more than Abrams. TLJ took inspiration from the same places Lucas did, like Kurosawa and ancient mythology. TFA took its cues from Star Wars
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Doom_Art posted...

Alright then lol

Yeah it's JJ and Dave Filoni who are the big superfans involved with the franchise now. Both seem to have a pretty good handle on how things should work.

Its Hair, dont even respond. Hes literally given up on a whole franchise he enjoyed because he didnt like one movie out of 10.

Like if a LotR fan stopped watching their favourite movies because they didnt like the Hobbit. Just nonsense.

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will there be finn/poe buttsex
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SSJGrimReaper posted...

will there be finn/poe buttsex

One of the new novels set between TLJ and TROS leans pretty heavily into Finn/Poe

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Doom_Art posted...

I will agree on TFA playing things very safe though.

I think that's part of the reason for why I admire bits of TLJ so much.

I think both movies suffer the same problem... which is that the other exists. They don't go together at all. At times it feels like they are actively working against each other.
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Mr_MacPhisto posted...

I think both movies suffer the same problem... which is that the other exists. They don't go together at all. At times it feels like they are actively working against each other.

A friend of mine had a good observation when we were chatting about this

"7 and 8 are both good movies, but as parts of a series they're not very good"

I'm gonna wait for TROS before I judge the whole trilogy.

There's a bunch of ways 9 can tie everything together nicely, so I'll wait and see how it goes.

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Mr_MacPhisto posted...

Doom_Art posted...

I will agree on TFA playing things very safe though.

I think that's part of the reason for why I admire bits of TLJ so much.

I think both movies suffer the same problem... which is that the other exists. They don't go together at all. At times it feels like they are actively working against each other.

How
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electricbugs2 posted...

Doom_Art posted...

Alright then lol

Yeah it's JJ and Dave Filoni who are the big superfans involved with the franchise now. Both seem to have a pretty good handle on how things should work.

Its Hair, dont even respond. Hes literally given up on a whole franchise he enjoyed because he didnt like one movie out of 10.

Like if a LotR fan stopped watching their favourite movies because they didnt like the Hobbit. Just nonsense.

Dude has been pretty vocal about his contempt for the prequels so it's more of not liking at least 4 of the more recent films out of 10. He doesn't even to seem to have the usual hate boner this board has as he doesn't even like the prequels more than the ST
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TFA played things stupid. They utterly failed to establish a meaningful tone, they failed to establish a meaningful connection between it and 6, the characters are so lazily written, there's too much forced fan service and it ultimately fails to capture the sense of romance and adventure that the original movies had.

To be fair, it is hard to live up to the original movies, especially when that kind of pacing just isn't popular in movies any more. But they just forewent all that in favor of dumb jokes and dumb action scenes.

A lot of people say TLJ was the final nail in the coffin. I think the failed soft reboot that Episode 7 was.

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SailorGoon posted...

Dude has been pretty vocal about his contempt for the prequels so it's more of not liking at least 4 of the more recent films out of 10. He doesn't even to seem to have the usual hate boner this board has as he doesn't even like the prequels more than the ST

Fair, but hes specifically said TLJ means no more Star Wars period. No games, books, Knick knacks etc.

That's just dumb.

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Hexenherz posted...

To be fair, it is hard to live up to the original movies

Not really. It hit me pretty late, but it's all just nostalgia really. A lot of the younger people I talk to prefer the ST to OT. It's basically a given if it's something they're all exposed to at once than over time.
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electricbugs2 posted...

Fair, but hes specifically said TLJ means no more Star Wars period. No games, books, Knick knacks etc.

That's just dumb.

I've seen stuff with people indicating that after TLJ they sold all their collectibles and every piece of merchandise they own, totaling thousands of dollars.

I can't fathom having a movie that at worst was mildly disappointing affecting me to such a severe degree.

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Maybe it is nostalgia, but the original movies have something that the new movies don't. They're simple, the characters make sense and show development, there are maybe a few plot holes but ultimately it's a cohesive story.

TFA had none of that. None of the scenes had a real sense of tension except the one with Han towards the end. Everything leading up to that was just awkward action combined with even more awkward attempts at humor.

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Hexenherz posted...

the original movies have something that the new movies don't

Hexenherz posted...

nostalgia

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Hexenherz posted...

Maybe it is nostalgia, but the original movies have something that the new movies don't. They're simple, the characters make sense and show development, there are maybe a few plot holes but ultimately it's a cohesive story.

TFA had none of that. None of the scenes had a real sense of tension except the one with Han towards the end. Everything leading up to that was just awkward action combined with even more awkward attempts at humor.

I fail to see how the new characters don't make sense(in TFA I mean). Finn doesn't want to be a part of the First Orders tyranny. He goes from just wanting to run away with his tail between his legs to doing the right thing because he realizes running away won't change a thing. Shit he only cared about his safety and then he's ready to lay it on the line for something greater.

Rey yearns to find out more about her past. I couldn't think of a more natural motive for someone abandoned as a child.
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Doom_Art posted...

electricbugs2 posted...

Fair, but hes specifically said TLJ means no more Star Wars period. No games, books, Knick knacks etc.

That's just dumb.

I've seen stuff with people indicating that after TLJ they sold all their collectibles and every piece of merchandise they own, totaling thousands of dollars.

I can't fathom having a movie that at worst was mildly disappointing affecting me to such a severe degree.

You'd think TLJ is the worst sequel on the planet with how some people talk about it.
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Nah man look at it objectively.

Rey faces zero challenge whatsoever, and therefore literally can't develop at all.

Finn's character doesn't make sense. He was indoctrinated as a child to fight for the new Order, but is so psychologically traumatized he decides he has to leave. In the next scene he's making jokes about how cool Rey is and jokes about her having a boyfriend.

Poe seems cool but doesn't have a lot of screen time. Also seems like he doesn't have a lot of room for growth either.

Han, Chewie and Leia are already established characters, so there's nowhere for them to go there.

Kylo Ren is literally the only intriguing character in the film. One for... However many is not a good track record.

Then there's the setting. They utterly failed to establish just how the First Order came to be so powerful if the Empire had been destroyed. They didn't establish that the Republic had been restored and I didn't even care that it got destroyed because of that, they could have destroyed any random ass planet to the same effect.
The writing was just all over the place.


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Fun Fact: The initial reaction to Empire was very similar to that to TLJ, and now Empire is regarded as the gold standard for sequels.
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Jiggy101011 posted...

Endgame went through reshoots too. Just sayin.

It was to add "I am Ironman" which made the scene 10000x better

RebelElite791 posted...

Fun Fact: The initial reaction to Empire was very similar to that to TLJ, and now Empire is regarded as the gold standard for sequels.

For real lol

Look at the reviews from some folks when Empire came out, it sounds identical

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I think it's pretty disingenuous to make one or two lines reflective of the characters personality as a whole.

You can't forget that Finn for the larger part of his life only worked as a fucking space janitor. Going from mopping up floors to slaughtering an entire village is a pretty significant change.

As for Rey, she has her own struggles. The thing is that it strays from the traditional formula. It's all mostly internal conflicts. She wants to know more about herself but she's also afraid of what she'll learn because it might bring new responsibilities hence her hesitance to take the Lightsaber on Takodana.

As for the worldbuilding, it's no different than the OT. Episode 4 starts off and you got an empire and rebellion. You know nothing more. Alderan blows up? Why the fuck do I care? Who's on Alderan that I know at this point.
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Like I said, simplicity. You didn't need to know more than "bad guys and good guys" because that premise on its own is enough to carry a story. We know the Empire is bad because they destroyed a girl's home world for not telling them where the Rebel base was. That's as evil as you can get.

You learn more about all of it as time goes on and the story progresses.

TFA was jumping in to an established world and plot line but didn't make it connect. We know the First Order is bad because they killed a village. But wait, the Empire was destroyed, where did the First Order even come from?

Also, it's more than "just a few lines". Everyone in this movie makes dumb jokes constantly throughout. It is not believable that a guy would be emotionally traumatized one day and then the very next day his first reaction is to hit on this girl. That makes him a poorly written, dumb character.

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Sounds more like double standards. You say OT is good because of its simplicity. That's the one thing it apparently has over the ST. Yet you turn around and say the ST having it is bad and it needs the explanations because it's an established franchise. It's the same thing. They talk about how the FO rose from the empire. There were a lot of implications. It was clearly set up so that they could expound upon the details in sequels. They were just laying the ground work for something greater. 30 years in between is a long time. A lot of stuff happened in between.

I still think it fits Finns character. Finn just wants to get away. He wants to escape. Seems like looking for love and trying to ignore what just happened is a pretty reasonable mindset for someone who wants to get away from it all.
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The rise of the First Order is pretty set up in the tie-in book that had Leia as the main character.

Sure this stuff probably would have made for a good movie but I think TFA was the movie it needed to be for Disney's debut. A return to basics. There's still fresh memories of The Phantom Menace being mocked for space politics.
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RebelElite791 posted...

Fun Fact: The initial reaction to Empire was very similar to that to TLJ, and now Empire is regarded as the gold standard for sequels.

I was just gonna say that
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What about the initial reaction to Attack of the Clones? And how has that changed aside from getting worse?
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SailorGoon posted...

What about the initial reaction to Attack of the Clones? And how has that changed aside from getting worse?

I remember people liking it but those people would have been 12-14.
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I don't think the reaction to The Attack of the Clones was all that unique for the prequel trilogy. The Phantom Menace already set a standard.
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People liked Attack of the Clones and the rest of the prequels when they came out. it only got venomous online some years later
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I don't know man. Attack it the Clones is where the most frequent critiques stem from. That movie accounts for a greater portion of the PTs cringey romance, dialogue, and shitty CG. TPM might have set a standard, but AotC grabbed the bar and threw it on the fucking ground. It's like someone watched TPM and thought "Wow, Star Wars couldn't get any worse" and Georgey boy took that as a challenge.
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SailorGoon posted...

I don't know man. Attack it the Clones is where the most frequent critiques stem from. That movie accounts for a greater portion of the PTs cringey romance, dialogue, and shitty CG. TPM might have set a standard, but AotC grabbed the bar and threw it on the fucking ground. It's like someone watched TPM and thought "Wow, Star Wars couldn't get any worse" and Georgey boy took that as a challenge.

George has been trying desperately to destroy Star Wars since the 90s.
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Do or do not. There is no try. And George fucking DID.
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