Current Events > Free healthcare is fucking great and all but let me tell you something absurd

(+) Yeah! (+)

So if you want to get a doctors appointment in the UK, everyone basically has to suffer through the same problem.

You call at 7:30, you find out they're not open until 8am. You call at 7:59, you still get an answering machine.

You call at 8:01, and you are informed that you are number 39 in a queue, if you even get an automated response at all. If you do get an answer, the receptionist (and she is always a miserable bitch) will tell you that there are no more bookings for that day.

But here's the amazing part. They won't accept appointments after that. You can't book for tomorrow. You just have to follow this insane morning ritual until you do eventually get a spot.

Last time I called, I had this amazing exchange (word for word):

Me: Hi, I'd like to make an appointment please.
Receptionist: Ok, when would you like to be seen?
Me: Uh, whenever really. Today, tomorrow, whenever suits.
Receptionist: I'm sorry, but we are fully booked today.
Me: Oh ok. Sometime later in the week then?
Receptionist: No, we can't accept advance bookings. You'll need to call back tomorrow.

It's fucking fantastic that I can get my health problems taken care of without having to remortgage the house, but fuck me just getting that appointment is about on par with getting Beyonce tickets.
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that seems pretty dumb. advance reservations are pretty standard for every other business. is there a reason for that?
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Is every clinic or hospital always full?
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Sackgurl posted...

that seems pretty dumb. advance reservations are pretty standard for every other business. is there a reason for that?

Political reasons. Unacheivable targets were set by the NHS for no less than a 48 waiting time for GPs. So to get around this problem they just stopped allowing advance bookings altogether.

It's a bit like how your school system has become triply fucked because teachers are being required to meet impossible grade standards across the board.

Edit: I may be totally wrong about this actually. I don't really know the reasons. It might be to stop GPs being booked out for weeks, and to discourage casual people who don't really have problems. I dunno.
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Seems pretty smarmy to ask when you want to schedule it, knowing the day is fully booked and you can't book later days.

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Yeah, its gonna be that way until robots can do basic diagnosis

Can you just go to an ER or something? Thats what our poor people do.
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shnangyboos posted...

Seems pretty smarmy to ask when you want to schedule it, knowing the day is fully booked and you can't book later days.

This happened like 6 weeks ago and I'm still salty about it.
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this is one reason to prefer a single payer system to direct government employment of most of the health care sector

imho

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This is entirely different than my experience in Canada.

I have a family doctor and I can make an appointment for any day. Two months ago I called to make an appointment for a week later with no problem. I've also went to a walk-in where you take numbers for that day, waited for like an hour or so at most.

Your problem isn't inherent to free healthcare, it's based off the the NHS' 48 hour policy like you mentioned.

Thank the Tories for sabotaging the NHS
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MagnusX posted...

This is entirely different than my experience in Canada.

as balrog points out, that's because the system in canada is different
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MagnusX posted...

This is entirely different than my experience in Canada.

I have a family doctor and I can make an appointment for any day. Two months ago I called to make an appointment for a week later with no problem. I've also went to a walk-in where you take numbers for that day, waited for like an hour or so at most.

Your problem isn't inherent to free healthcare, it's based off the the NHS' 48 hour policy like you mentioned.

I must admit that I'm a little afraid of what a US "Medicare for all" system would look like, despite strongly feeling that we should do something different.
In our current system, our employers basically choose our health insurance for us (this "dur hour, Americans want to be able to choose" bullshit that I've been hearing in the democratic debate is stupid. Only the rich actually get to choose their own insurance company...) and some of them suck.
My fear is that we'll end up with "Medicare for all but still with private insurance" and the rich will get their nice choices and prioritized while everyone else gets stuck with a shitty government-run system.
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I was bitten by a dog, went to the clinic and they fixed it directly, no need to call.
Fix your stuff, UK.
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so this issue isnt inherent to universal healthcare, its a stupid directive put in place by idiot politicians for bullshit reasons.
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RescueBC posted...

My fear is that we'll end up with "Medicare for all but still with private insurance" and the rich will get their nice choices and prioritized while everyone else gets stuck with a shitty government-run system.

that is why part of medicare for all is banning insurance from competing with it

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Balrog0 posted...

that is why part of medicare for all is banning insurance from competing with it

well, that and if everyone is automatically on a system that pays for necessary procedures, insurance that covers those same things would be collecting a premium and paying out nothing

i expect we'd still see supplemental insurance for elective procedures
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Balrog0 posted...

RescueBC posted...

My fear is that we'll end up with "Medicare for all but still with private insurance" and the rich will get their nice choices and prioritized while everyone else gets stuck with a shitty government-run system.

that is why part of medicare for all is banning insurance from competing with it

Exactly...this is why anyone who wants to keep the private insurance companies around with the addition of medicare for all is not getting my vote. Lol
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I'm in the UK and I can ring up in the morning or I can make appointments days/weeks in advance online.

Balrog0 posted...

RescueBC posted...

My fear is that we'll end up with "Medicare for all but still with private insurance" and the rich will get their nice choices and prioritized while everyone else gets stuck with a shitty government-run system.

that is why part of medicare for all is banning insurance from competing with it

All you get out of that is cash-only "concierge" doctors.

RescueBC posted...

My fear is that we'll end up with "Medicare for all but still with private insurance" and the rich will get their nice choices and prioritized while everyone else gets stuck with a s***ty government-run system.

At some point you'll have to accept the fact that the rich will have better everything no matter what country you're in

The question is whether the gap will be uconscionably large and whether what the poor have is acceptable.

Currently in the US healthcare system I would say that on average it's acceptable but there's too much risk , it's too easy to get hit by an unsuspected bill due to insurance issues, or lose access to health care coz you lost your job
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In the US I went to the doctor solely to get referred to a better doctor, and he needed to fax a referral to them

They send all of their referrals to a third party. They literally fax out to a company designed only to send faxes.

It took 25 days to send a fax.
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Colorahdo posted...

In the US I went to the doctor solely to get referred to a better doctor, and he needed to fax a referral to them

They send all of their referrals to a third party. They literally fax out to a company designed only to send faxes.

It took 25 days to send a fax.

Yes.
Thankfully I now have insurance where referrals aren't necessary but this is a struggle for a lot of people under our current shit system.
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Are there no emergency care clinics or emergency rooms?

Veggeta X posted...

Is every clinic or hospital always full?

In canada the waits are bad too

We have a doctor shortage

Its better as a doctor to work in the states

Imo our nurses are overpaid, and a we should put that money in doctors

Raikuro posted...

Are there no emergency care clinics or emergency rooms?

Australia has them. I'm sure the UK and Canada have them as well. There's no way someone gets stabbed, comes in on an ambulance, and then waits 4 hours behind them people with colds and swollen eyes. It just doesn't happen
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Raikuro posted...

Are there no emergency care clinics or emergency rooms?

Sure, but you don't go to those for routine stuff.

The problem isn't the concept of healthcare that's free at the point of service. The problem is the conservatives gutting NHS, schools and other public services.

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p-m posted...

I'm in the UK and I can ring up in the morning or I can make appointments days/weeks in advance online.

How is that so? TC said it's not possible
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IloveJesus posted...

Sure, but you don't go to those for routine stuff.

When was the last time you've seen an ER?

MagnusX posted...

This is entirely different than my experience in Canada.

I have a family doctor and I can make an appointment for any day. Two months ago I called to make an appointment for a week later with no problem. I've also went to a walk-in where you take numbers for that day, waited for like an hour or so at most.

Your problem isn't inherent to free healthcare, it's based off the the NHS' 48 hour policy like you mentioned.

That is not my experience here. I am looking for a new doctor as mine is retiring. No one is taking any new patients, and to go to walk in takes about 2 hours minimum at any clinic here. You need to plan at least 1 month in advance for an appointment as doctors are booked that far (and you only get 15 minutes if you are lucky). The ER, when actually experiencing an emergency, can take up to 8 hours.
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People in America act like its bad you pay a co-pay to see a doctor.

Also TC, how is your healthcare free? Doesn't your expense come out of your paycheck when you look at your deductions? How much is the mandatory fee?

MaverickXeo posted...

MagnusX posted...

This is entirely different than my experience in Canada.

I have a family doctor and I can make an appointment for any day. Two months ago I called to make an appointment for a week later with no problem. I've also went to a walk-in where you take numbers for that day, waited for like an hour or so at most.

Your problem isn't inherent to free healthcare, it's based off the the NHS' 48 hour policy like you mentioned.

That is not my experience here. I am looking for a new doctor as mine is retiring. No one is taking any new patients, and to go to walk in takes about 2 hours minimum at any clinic here. You need to plan at least 1 month in advance for an appointment as doctors are booked that far (and you only get 15 minutes if you are lucky). The ER, when actually experiencing an emergency, can take up to 8 hours.

This is true, I have a family doctor but its hard for new people to get family doctors

My family doctor is in an inconvenient location, so walk in clinics are easier

It would be too hard to get a new doctor

sounds better than being poor and or dying

the thing about free public health care, if you don't want you can still get a private insurance if you don't want to wait. Just gotta pay more.
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Sega95 posted...

People in America act like its bad you pay a co-pay to see a doctor.

it is

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Balrog0 posted...

Sega95 posted...

People in America act like its bad you pay a co-pay to see a doctor.

it is

Balrog0 posted...

Sega95 posted...

People in America act like its bad you pay a co-pay to see a doctor.

it is

How is a $20 co pay worse than money mandatory coming out of your paycheck even if you are healthy and don't go to the doctor?

Instead of paying for the service when you need it, you want to extort others?

Also, whats the mandatory fee you are paying for this "Free" healthcare you are paying for?

ALIEN_WORK2HOP posted...

sounds better than being poor and or dying

the thing about free public health care, if you don't want you can still get a private insurance if you don't want to wait. Just gotta pay more.

That's like saying a can of dog food is better than starving. It's true, but it doesn't mean you're getting quality.

People in the US lionize more socialist heath care systems without looking at some of the larger issues. My grandmother was on a wait list for an MRI for months (sorry you're having mini heart attacks, but you have to wit your turn), then it was a 4 hour trip to get to the MRI, meaning a nice full day for her and her ride. I don't have a family doctor, which may not be all bad as the one I had once told me and my mother not to come in unless I was more seriously sick. Friends are losing theirs. Various family members are on wait lists for surgeries. It beats dying, but it still sucks.

Everyone wants the free health care, but no one wants to be the doctor, a little thing ignored in medicare for all pushes, but then, the public believes you can buy anything you want on demand and shortages aren't a real thing.
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pinky0926 posted...

Sackgurl posted...

that seems pretty dumb. advance reservations are pretty standard for every other business. is there a reason for that?

Political reasons. Unacheivable targets were set by the NHS for no less than a 48 waiting time for GPs. So to get around this problem they just stopped allowing advance bookings altogether.

It's a bit like how your school system has become triply fucked because teachers are being required to meet impossible grade standards across the board.

Edit: I may be totally wrong about this actually. I don't really know the reasons. It might be to stop GPs being booked out for weeks, and to discourage casual people who don't really have problems. I dunno.

No wonder the NHS gets so much hate. You are expected to book doctors appointments in advance in the US, like up to a year in advance.
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Sega95 posted...

How is a $20 co pay worse than money mandatory coming out of your paycheck even if you are healthy and don't go to the doctor?

I don't understand the framing of the question. If cost-sharing were limited to $20 a visit that might not be so bad.


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Live in Canada. Called my family physician on Tuesday and got an appointment for Friday.
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Balrog0 posted...

Sega95 posted...

How is a $20 co pay worse than money mandatory coming out of your paycheck even if you are healthy and don't go to the doctor?

I don't understand the framing of the question. If cost-sharing were limited to $20 a visit that might not be so bad.

How do you not understand? I just asked you WHY paying a $20 co-pay is bad when YOU need to see the doctor, specifically YOU.

As opposed to forcing everyone to pay for something, even though they don't need to use it.

Also how come nobody is posting the mandatory amount they are paying for their healthcare in these "free" healthcare countries?

Its not free then.

Sega95 posted...

How do you not understand?

I just explained one reason I don't understand the framing, if it wasn't clear to you then I can be more explicit -- cost-sharing isn't limited to $20 so even though I understand the intent of your question I am saying that it doesn't cohere to reality so it is meaningless

Also, people who experience cost-sharing are people who are already having money taken out of every paycheck even if they're healthy and don't see a doctor. So both parts of the framing of your question are misleading.

Do you have any questions?

Sega95 posted...

Also how come nobody is posting the mandatory amount they are paying for their healthcare in these "free" healthcare countries?

Its not free then.

How much are you paying for health care that you don't use in America?

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Sega95 posted...

Balrog0 posted...

Sega95 posted...

How is a $20 co pay worse than money mandatory coming out of your paycheck even if you are healthy and don't go to the doctor?

I don't understand the framing of the question. If cost-sharing were limited to $20 a visit that might not be so bad.

How do you not understand? I just asked you WHY paying a $20 co-pay is bad when YOU need to see the doctor, specifically YOU.

As opposed to forcing everyone to pay for something, even though they don't need to use it.

Two reasons - when everyone pays, it costs less for everyone. Secondly, not everyone has $20 to spare.

I'm a paramedic in Canada, so this is all coming from my personal experience. The poor are disproportionately large users of health care. I don't say this as a criticism - it's hard to stay healthy when you're poor. You don't eat as well, you're more stressed, you work longer hours, worse living conditions. You can't take time off work for being sick. Minor health issues start to spiral into more significant ones. Poor diet (veggies are expensive, don't have time to cook, etc...) leads to diabetes. High cholesterol and high blood pressure lead to increased risks of heart attack - you could take medication, but you'd have to take a day off work to go see your doctor, then pay for the meds.

Then all these issues accumulate, and now you're actually sick. So you call an ambulance, get admitted to hospital. Depending on the floor, this could cost upwards of $5k a night. Now, instead of the government (and by extension, the citizens) helping this person with a $20 co-pay, now we're all on the hook for $5000 a night.

Or maybe they don't call an ambulance at all, because in Ontario an ambulance costs $45. So you think "This pain in my chest will go away, no big deal" because $45 is your grocery budget for the week. Whoops. Turns out you're having a heart attack, and then you die. Because you didn't have $50 to spare.

Do you think someone should die over $45? Over $20? Because I guarantee you it happens.

Balrog0 posted...

I just explained one reason I don't understand the framing, if it wasn't clear to you then I can be more explicit -- cost-sharing isn't limited to $20 so even though I understand the intent of your question I am saying that it doesn't cohere to reality so it is meaningless

How is it meaningless? Doctors charge a $20 copay. You not understanding is due to a basic lack of intelligence of reality.

Balrog0 posted...

Also, people who experience cost-sharing are people who are already having money taken out of every paycheck even if they're healthy and don't see a doctor. So both parts of the framing of your question are misleading.

Not misleading at all, you can either, 1. Pay for your service when you need it, or 2. Force everyone to pay for the service even if they don't need it. Literally 2 options, I asked which one you thought would be better, and why?

Balrog0 posted...

How much are you paying for health care that you don't use in America?

$0.

Now again, in these countries that claim to have free healthcare, SPECIFICALLY, what is the amount coming out of your paycheck?

I guarantee its more than a $20 co-pay.

if i didn't fall into that category of low income. would be out 100$ a month premium and 5$ per visit for medications etc.

only had to use it once because of the seizure incident (i don't have any memory leading up to or during the blackout window) ended up in the back of an ambulance 1500 bill ><. think they stopped coming after me i barely have enough money to afford bills.
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Sega95 posted...

How is it meaningless? Doctors charge a $20 copay. You not understanding is due to a basic lack of intelligence of reality.

I just explained how it's meaningless. Read it again.

Sega95 posted...

Not misleading at all, you can either, 1. Pay for your service when you need it, or 2. Force everyone to pay for the service even if they don't need it. Literally 2 options, I asked which one you thought would be better, and why?

It is misleading, because this isn't how it works. Are you old enough to have had to use your own insurance?

Sega95 posted...

Balrog0 posted...
How much are you paying for health care that you don't use in America?

$0.

oh, so you really aren't old enough to work or you've never actually looked at your paycheck

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ALIEN_WORK2HOP posted...

sounds better than being poor and or dying

the thing about free public health care, if you don't want you can still get a private insurance if you don't want to wait. Just gotta pay more.

So we can choose to die by having to wait for needed services? So many people here who need life saving/changing surgeries are choosing to go to other countries to have them done.

My mother has been unable to work for about 15 years due to bone fragments in her knee... she is still on the 'list' for surgery, and they call every six months to state that.
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Sega95 posted...

I guarantee its more than a $20 co-pay.

Yeah? Because seeing a doctor costs more than $20? A $20 co-pay doesn't cover a visit with the doctor, so the question is still "who pays for the rest"?

Balrog0 posted...

t is misleading, because this isn't how it works. Are you old enough to have had to use your own insurance?

100% how it works, you either pay a co-pay in America to see a doctor, or pretend something is free in another country even though you are forced to pay for it with your taxes.

Balrog0 posted...

oh, so you really aren't old enough to work or you've never actually looked at your paycheck

Nope, been working full time, $0 for not using, if I see a Doctor, I pay $20 for the visit, 1 free physical a year.

Get wrecked financially because you don't understand basics XD

Also, still waiting for the $$$ amount for the insurance in the free countries, nobody is going to post it because its not free XD

Questionmarktarius posted...

When was the last time you've seen an ER?

About 3 months ago.

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