Current Events > Twitter bullies brought Jordan Peterson to tears.

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Goats
10/26/19 12:35:05 AM
#51:


How many LGBT people have been driven to near suicide by this guy's hate or his influence?
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Solid Snake07
10/26/19 12:35:18 AM
#52:


averagejoel posted...
Solid Snake07 posted...
averagejoel posted...
Solid Snake07 posted...
Godnorgosh posted...
I wonder if he considered that trans people find it similarly upsetting when someone deliberately refuses to use their preferred pronouns or acknowledge their gender identity.


He never advocated that people should refuse to adopt someone's preferred pronouns. He said the government shouldn't legislate speech, the particular case just happened to be about preferred pronouns

he may have had a point if the bill had anything to do with legislating speech, or even if it mentioned the word "pronoun" at all


I dont really know much about the bill itself to be honest. What was it?

https://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/42-1/bill/c-16/first-reading


Im posting on a video game message board slightly drunk on a Friday night. I'm definitely not reading a bill. If you can tell me what it is and why it's misrepresented by peterson Im open ears
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Bio1590
10/26/19 12:35:34 AM
#53:


Why are we still supposed to care about this guy.

Solid Snake07 posted...
I know I saw an interview where he was asked if a student of his asked him to use a preferred pronoun he would. He just didnt agree with being forced to by law.

This is wrong, he's literally on-the-record stated that he would refuse to use non-gendered pronouns if requested. And he literally never represented the law right in the first place.
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shnangyboos
10/26/19 12:37:26 AM
#54:


Goats posted...
How many LGBT people have been driven to near suicide by this guy's hate or his influence?


I don't know, do tell us.

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Bio1590
10/26/19 12:46:17 AM
#55:


Solid Snake07 posted...
If you can tell me what it is and why it's misrepresented by peterson Im open ears

Literally all it did was add "Gender orientation" and "Gender identity" to the Human Rights Code as part of the typical list that includes "race, national or ethnic origin, language, colour, religion, sex, age, mental or physical disability, and sexual orientation" in regards to discrimination, and also added "Gender identity" and "Gender expression" as identifiable groups when it comes to "advocating genocide".

The guy literally started ranting and raving about being thrown in prison for misgendering or mislabeling someone based solely on the above...and it was literally never, ever a possibility that he could be.
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Solid Snake07
10/26/19 12:47:28 AM
#56:


Bio1590 posted...
Why are we still supposed to care about this guy.

Solid Snake07 posted...
I know I saw an interview where he was asked if a student of his asked him to use a preferred pronoun he would. He just didnt agree with being forced to by law.

This is wrong, he's literally on-the-record stated that he would refuse to use non-gendered pronouns if requested. And he literally never represented the law right in the first place.


Oh, hes refused to go to the limits of mental illness? Simply calling a biological male she or a biological female he isnt enough.

You people are out of your fucking mind. And we all have enough shit going on in our own lives without taking on your baggage you narssasistic fucks.
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vigorm0rtis
10/26/19 12:50:41 AM
#57:


Solid Snake07 posted...

I know I saw an interview where he was asked if a student of his asked him to use a preferred pronoun he would. He just didnt agree with being forced to by law.

I also know he's a very politicized public figure that is commonly misrepresented for his actual views.


You know when I said "disingenuous" earlier? You strike me as one of those who can't see through it.

There are good reasons not to pass those laws-- but it's interesting that Petersen never made one of those arguments.
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averagejoel
10/26/19 12:53:11 AM
#58:


Solid Snake07 posted...
Im posting on a video game message board slightly drunk on a Friday night. I'm definitely not reading a bill. If you can tell me what it is and why it's misrepresented by peterson Im open ears

there's a list of "prohibited grounds of discrimination" -- basically you can't discriminate against someone based on their race, nationality, marital status, etc. the bill added "gender identity" as one of those categories.

I don't know if ol' jordy was deliberately lying or legitimately didn't understand the bill, but either way, he was spreading objectively false information about it, based on the idea that it could be used to inhibit free speech or control language in some way
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EzeDoesIt
10/26/19 1:01:38 AM
#59:


Solid Snake07 posted...
Im posting on a video game message board slightly drunk on a Friday night. I'm definitely not reading a bill. If you can tell me what it is and why it's misrepresented by peterson Im open ears
Its just extending their anti-discrimination laws to include trans people AKA Jordan Peterson is even dumber than I thought.

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Solid Snake07
10/26/19 1:01:47 AM
#60:


vigorm0rtis posted...
Solid Snake07 posted...

I know I saw an interview where he was asked if a student of his asked him to use a preferred pronoun he would. He just didnt agree with being forced to by law.

I also know he's a very politicized public figure that is commonly misrepresented for his actual views.


You know when I said "disingenuous" earlier? You strike me as one of those who can't see through it.

There are good reasons not to pass those laws-- but it's interesting that Petersen never made one of those arguments.


Maybe. I've had people tell me he took a disingenuous stance on that bill, but I've yet to have anyone break it down for me why he does when pressed, which reeks of bull shit.

I guess I could read it myself but I'm not really in the habit of reading foreign legislation.....I dont really care. I care more about people on the internet misrepresenting what someone has said publicly. And ive seen this a gross amount of times with Peterson. I'm not even a big fan of his, but if you have to make up bs about someone to discredit them you've discredited yourself in my eyes.
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Solid Snake07
10/26/19 1:03:58 AM
#61:


averagejoel posted...
Solid Snake07 posted...
Im posting on a video game message board slightly drunk on a Friday night. I'm definitely not reading a bill. If you can tell me what it is and why it's misrepresented by peterson Im open ears

there's a list of "prohibited grounds of discrimination" -- basically you can't discriminate against someone based on their race, nationality, marital status, etc. the bill added "gender identity" as one of those categories.

I don't know if ol' jordy was deliberately lying or legitimately didn't understand the bill, but either way, he was spreading objectively false information about it, based on the idea that it could be used to inhibit free speech or control language in some way


So is refusing to call someone by their preferred pronoun discrimination?

Cause I'm assuming that was the interpretation of some of the opposition to Peterson
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averagejoel
10/26/19 1:06:31 AM
#62:


Solid Snake07 posted...
averagejoel posted...
Solid Snake07 posted...
Im posting on a video game message board slightly drunk on a Friday night. I'm definitely not reading a bill. If you can tell me what it is and why it's misrepresented by peterson Im open ears

there's a list of "prohibited grounds of discrimination" -- basically you can't discriminate against someone based on their race, nationality, marital status, etc. the bill added "gender identity" as one of those categories.

I don't know if ol' jordy was deliberately lying or legitimately didn't understand the bill, but either way, he was spreading objectively false information about it, based on the idea that it could be used to inhibit free speech or control language in some way


So is refusing to call someone by their preferred pronoun discrimination?

in certain contexts it could be
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Solid Snake07
10/26/19 1:07:25 AM
#63:


averagejoel posted...
Solid Snake07 posted...
averagejoel posted...
Solid Snake07 posted...
Im posting on a video game message board slightly drunk on a Friday night. I'm definitely not reading a bill. If you can tell me what it is and why it's misrepresented by peterson Im open ears

there's a list of "prohibited grounds of discrimination" -- basically you can't discriminate against someone based on their race, nationality, marital status, etc. the bill added "gender identity" as one of those categories.

I don't know if ol' jordy was deliberately lying or legitimately didn't understand the bill, but either way, he was spreading objectively false information about it, based on the idea that it could be used to inhibit free speech or control language in some way


So is refusing to call someone by their preferred pronoun discrimination?

in certain contexts it could be


So how is that not forced speech?
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Polycosm
10/26/19 1:07:51 AM
#64:


I haven't listened to much of Peterson's content so I don't know who's wrong here... but I've only ever heard him argue against the gender pronoun law from a free speech standpoint, and I've heard him affirm that he calls people by their preferred pronouns.

Also, "clean your room" is a message of personal responsibility-- not a call to bully others. It's one thing to say that Peterson needs to take his own advice. It's another thing to gleefully celebrate the guy's mental breakdown in the face of online harassment.
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EzeDoesIt
10/26/19 1:09:03 AM
#65:


Solid Snake07 posted...
So how is that not forced speech?


Same way hate crime laws against using racial epithets isnt forced speech.

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Solid Snake07
10/26/19 1:11:22 AM
#66:


EzeDoesIt posted...
Solid Snake07 posted...
So how is that not forced speech?


Same way hate crime laws against using racial epithets isnt forced speech.


Those require an actual crime to take place. I can call someone a racial slur all day long, doing it while I assault them is entirely different thing.

You do see the difference there right?
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EzeDoesIt
10/26/19 1:13:51 AM
#67:


I assumed thats where averagejoels context comes in.
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averagejoel
10/26/19 1:14:20 AM
#68:


Solid Snake07 posted...
averagejoel posted...
Solid Snake07 posted...
averagejoel posted...
Solid Snake07 posted...
Im posting on a video game message board slightly drunk on a Friday night. I'm definitely not reading a bill. If you can tell me what it is and why it's misrepresented by peterson Im open ears

there's a list of "prohibited grounds of discrimination" -- basically you can't discriminate against someone based on their race, nationality, marital status, etc. the bill added "gender identity" as one of those categories.

I don't know if ol' jordy was deliberately lying or legitimately didn't understand the bill, but either way, he was spreading objectively false information about it, based on the idea that it could be used to inhibit free speech or control language in some way


So is refusing to call someone by their preferred pronoun discrimination?

in certain contexts it could be


So how is that not forced speech?

you're gonna need to explain how it is
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vigorm0rtis
10/26/19 1:18:03 AM
#69:


Solid Snake07 posted...
EzeDoesIt posted...
Solid Snake07 posted...
So how is that not forced speech?


Same way hate crime laws against using racial epithets isnt forced speech.


Those require an actual crime to take place. I can call someone a racial slur all day long, doing it while I assault them is entirely different thing.

You do see the difference there right?


Article 369 of the Criminal Code, titled 'Incitement to hatred or discrimination', prohibits hate speech directed against a group of persons. The offense carries a punishment of 6 months to 3 years' imprisonment, or a fine.
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Solid Snake07
10/26/19 1:18:29 AM
#70:


averagejoel posted...
Solid Snake07 posted...
averagejoel posted...
Solid Snake07 posted...
averagejoel posted...
Solid Snake07 posted...
Im posting on a video game message board slightly drunk on a Friday night. I'm definitely not reading a bill. If you can tell me what it is and why it's misrepresented by peterson Im open ears

there's a list of "prohibited grounds of discrimination" -- basically you can't discriminate against someone based on their race, nationality, marital status, etc. the bill added "gender identity" as one of those categories.

I don't know if ol' jordy was deliberately lying or legitimately didn't understand the bill, but either way, he was spreading objectively false information about it, based on the idea that it could be used to inhibit free speech or control language in some way


So is refusing to call someone by their preferred pronoun discrimination?

in certain contexts it could be


So how is that not forced speech?

you're gonna need to explain how it is


No, you need to explain the context that it is or isn't illegal discrimination.
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averagejoel
10/26/19 1:19:49 AM
#71:


Solid Snake07 posted...
No, you need to explain the context that it is or isn't illegal discrimination.

or you could just read the damn bill lol

I'm not a lawyer
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Solid Snake07
10/26/19 1:28:40 AM
#72:


averagejoel posted...
Solid Snake07 posted...
No, you need to explain the context that it is or isn't illegal discrimination.

or you could just read the damn bill lol

I'm not a lawyer


Neither am I and you obviously just admited you haven't read it either(why would you?lol)but I have an unrealistic expectation of straightforward laws that explicitly say what they mean instead of relying on the first judge to rule in high courts to interpret them how they want. Especially when it comes to speech.

What a fucked up precident to set. "You cant call me this cause I dont like it!"
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PleaseClap
10/26/19 1:30:57 AM
#73:


Canadian Human Rights Act

1 Section 2 of the Canadian Human Rights Act is replaced by the following:
Purpose

2 The purpose of this Act is to extend the laws in Canada to give effect, within the purview of matters coming within the legislative authority of Parliament, to the principle that all individuals should have an opportunity equal with other individuals to make for themselves the lives that they are able and wish to have and to have their needs accommodated, consistent with their duties and obligations as members of society, without being hindered in or prevented from doing so by discriminatory practices based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, age, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, marital status, family status, disability or conviction for an offence for which a pardon has been granted or in respect of which a record suspension has been ordered.

2 Subsection 3(1) of the Act is replaced by the following:
Prohibited grounds of discrimination

3 (1) For all purposes of this Act, the prohibited grounds of discrimination are race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, age, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, marital status, family status, disability and conviction for an offence for which a pardon has been granted or in respect of which a record suspension has been ordered. Every 3rd Tuesday will now formally be codified as "Taco Tuesday." Citizens who fail to consume at least 2 [two] tacos will be subjected to no less than 15 years imprisonment.

Criminal Code

3 Subsection 318(4) of the Criminal Code is replaced by the following:
Definition of identifiable group
(4) In this section, identifiable group means any section of the public distinguished by colour, race, religion, national or ethnic origin, age, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, or mental or physical disability.

4 Subparagraph 718.2(a)(i) of the Act is replaced by the following:
(i) evidence that the offence was motivated by bias, prejudice or hate based on race, national or ethnic origin, language, colour, religion, sex, age, mental or physical disability, sexual orientation, or gender identity or expression, or on any other similar factor,

The horror!
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averagejoel
10/26/19 1:57:07 AM
#74:


Solid Snake07 posted...
Neither am I and you obviously just admited you haven't read it either

I literally did, and I literally explained it to you, but you insist on being dense about it
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ReignFury
10/26/19 1:58:20 AM
#75:


Wow, a lot of supporters regularly use his arguments to claim victimhood and attack women and/or minorities and I can see them turning on him for breaking like this.

Im a fan if his but I don't do the MGTOW redd pill stuff, I reflect on a lot of his viewpoints and it helps me focus more on my own path and less on anything else. To me hes not a hero or a guru, hes simply a resource for self improvement and progression.
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Joelypoely
10/26/19 2:36:23 AM
#76:


awesome999 posted...
That article reads in a way that suggests the author is inherently biased

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Disengaged
10/26/19 3:00:33 AM
#77:


Time to dissolve and regrow your brain petey.
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Bio1590
10/26/19 3:19:21 AM
#78:


Jesus Christ imagine admitting you refuse to read something and then still trying to argue with someone over whether someone else's interpretation of it is wrong or not.
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ssjevot
10/26/19 3:35:38 AM
#79:


kingdrake2 posted...
it's even nastier than alcohol abuse. wish him the best in trying to overcome it.
if only those cops would go after those goddamn dealers... gotta take out the hydra somehow.


Wouldn't his dealer in this scenario be the Canadian healthcare system?

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Blue_Dream87
10/26/19 4:11:48 AM
#80:


I think the dude is shitty and is just another grifters taking advantage of this "culture war".

However, online harassment is also shitty and toxic, and ridiculing a drug addict for getting help is not something society should normalize. He was stupid enough to try and quit a Klonopin addiction cold turkey, I think he's suffered enough from his own devices. Keep up the criticism but remember we're all human

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MrMallard
10/26/19 5:20:37 AM
#81:


Solid Snake07 posted...
averagejoel posted...
Solid Snake07 posted...
averagejoel posted...
Solid Snake07 posted...
Im posting on a video game message board slightly drunk on a Friday night. I'm definitely not reading a bill. If you can tell me what it is and why it's misrepresented by peterson Im open ears

there's a list of "prohibited grounds of discrimination" -- basically you can't discriminate against someone based on their race, nationality, marital status, etc. the bill added "gender identity" as one of those categories.

I don't know if ol' jordy was deliberately lying or legitimately didn't understand the bill, but either way, he was spreading objectively false information about it, based on the idea that it could be used to inhibit free speech or control language in some way


So is refusing to call someone by their preferred pronoun discrimination?

in certain contexts it could be


So how is that not forced speech?

You greet a person using masculine pronouns because they strike you as being masculine - an especially manly woman, or a trans woman, for example. This person tells you that they identify with these feminine pronouns.

If you continue to use masculine pronouns for them with this information, in the face of them correcting you, it can be argued that you're being hostile given the context of this exchange. No-one's gonna throw you into a gulag for misgendering someone off the bat, but if they say "actually I go by these pronouns" and you keep calling them "sir" or "ma'am" in the face of these clear requests, then you're probably gonna get slapped with discrimination.

Maybe you're the sort of person who's had to budge on certain things your brain hardwires in without your control. If you can make a decent case of operating in good faith, then maybe everything will be good. But if you're spending your time jabbing at people based on their gender identification, you might be held liable for discriminating against them.
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MrMallard
10/26/19 5:24:33 AM
#82:


Bio1590 posted...
Jesus Christ imagine admitting you refuse to read something and then still trying to argue with someone over whether someone else's interpretation of it is wrong or not.

Because it doesn't matter if you're right or wrong. As long as you're always on the attack, you maintain a dominant image and people can claim you won because you never budged to the opposition.

It doesn't matter about the content of the message, because the tone of the exchange matters much more to a conservative pundit's followers. See: the Ben Shapiro interview where he clashed with a British conservative and called it a debate
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Lorenzo_2003
10/26/19 5:37:13 AM
#83:


Garioshi posted...
On one hand, he's human and it's only natural for him to be affected by this sort of thing. On the other hand, if you can't walk the walk, don't talk the talk.


That take does not make sense, given what we know of Jordan Peterson.

To the best of my knowledge, Peterson has never claimed to be a tough guy, or an "Alpha" as some would say. In fact, he has cried before during public speeches, media interviews and at least one vlog. I don't even think he's ever even said that online criticism and such does not have an impact on him. He's been supportive of viewers and patients who have admitted they are suicidal, depressed, mentally ill or generally struggling. This is not a guy who dismisses people's personal pain, but he does seem very wary of anyone who is pro censorship or pro violence.

Again, Peterson is not the type to claim he is a tough guy who would never cry or admit defeat in some way. He's always struck me as a bit effeminate, maybe what older generations would call a dandy.
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EzeDoesIt
10/26/19 7:00:11 AM
#84:


Lorenzo_2003 posted...
Garioshi posted...
On one hand, he's human and it's only natural for him to be affected by this sort of thing. On the other hand, if you can't walk the walk, don't talk the talk.


That take does not make sense, given what we know of Jordan Peterson.

To the best of my knowledge, Peterson has never claimed to be a tough guy, or an "Alpha" as some would say. In fact, he has cried before during public speeches, media interviews and at least one vlog. I don't even think he's ever even said that online criticism and such does not have an impact on him. He's been supportive of viewers and patients who have admitted they are suicidal, depressed, mentally ill or generally struggling. This is not a guy who dismisses people's personal pain, but he does seem very wary of anyone who is pro censorship or pro violence.

Again, Peterson is not the type to claim he is a tough guy who would never cry or admit defeat in some way. He's always struck me as a bit effeminate, maybe what older generations would call a dandy.

this is accurate
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averagejoel
10/26/19 2:03:03 PM
#85:


MrMallard posted...
You greet a person using masculine pronouns because they strike you as being masculine

while the rest of your post is perfectly fine, I find this puzzling -- when greeting someone, people generally use the pronoun "you", which is not gendered in English. in what context would you refer to someone as "he" or "she" when greeting them?
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EzeDoesIt
10/26/19 2:53:05 PM
#86:


averagejoel posted...
MrMallard posted...
You greet a person using masculine pronouns because they strike you as being masculine

while the rest of your post is perfectly fine, I find this puzzling -- when greeting someone, people generally use the pronoun "you", which is not gendered in English. in what context would you refer to someone as "he" or "she" when greeting them?

The main way I could see it is working in the service industry and calling someone maam/miss vs. sir. But it was pretty rare that I used those terms when I worked in the service industry anyway.
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Machete
10/26/19 2:54:38 PM
#87:


Jordan Peterson is basically a fart festival
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hockeybub89
10/26/19 2:55:36 PM
#88:


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averagejoel
10/26/19 3:03:34 PM
#89:


EzeDoesIt posted...
averagejoel posted...
MrMallard posted...
You greet a person using masculine pronouns because they strike you as being masculine

while the rest of your post is perfectly fine, I find this puzzling -- when greeting someone, people generally use the pronoun "you", which is not gendered in English. in what context would you refer to someone as "he" or "she" when greeting them?

The main way I could see it is working in the service industry and calling someone maam/miss vs. sir. But it was pretty rare that I used those terms when I worked in the service industry anyway.

those aren't pronouns though. they're honorifics
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EzeDoesIt
10/26/19 3:05:40 PM
#90:


Sure but insisting on calling a man maam or a woman sir is probably going to offend them.
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averagejoel
10/26/19 3:15:14 PM
#91:


EzeDoesIt posted...
Sure but insisting on calling a man maam or a woman sir is probably going to offend them.

yeah but I was asking specifically about pronouns
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EzeDoesIt
10/26/19 3:48:34 PM
#92:


averagejoel posted...
EzeDoesIt posted...
Sure but insisting on calling a man maam or a woman sir is probably going to offend them.

yeah but I was asking specifically about pronouns

Oh well yeah I agree youd be hard-pressed to refer to someone in the 3rd person when speaking directly to them.
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mybbqrules
10/26/19 7:04:18 PM
#93:


Jordan Peterson: I'm anti-PC! Tell it like it is! No snowflakes allowed!

Also Jordan Peterson: Stop making fun of me BWUH HUH HUH HUUUUUUUH.
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Notti
10/28/19 5:53:59 AM
#94:


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iPhone_7
10/28/19 6:01:39 AM
#95:


I dont like the guy but I dont think its hypocritical of him to be upset. From what I know of him he says anti-pc stuff in general, not gang up with others to specifically target an individual.
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Tyranthraxus
10/28/19 4:33:16 PM
#96:


iPhone_7 posted...
I dont like the guy but I dont think its hypocritical of him to be upset. From what I know of him he says anti-pc stuff in general, not gang up with others to specifically target an individual.


The "anti-pc" stuff is really just a "pc" way of saying "minorities should be subjected to whatever derogatory words the majority wants to call them"

He's not organizing gangs. The gang is already there.

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darkphoenix181
10/28/19 4:35:19 PM
#97:


BignutzisBack posted...
Yes she almost died and he was on anxiety medication for it. She then made a recovery and he tried to wean off and had bad withdrawal symptoms so he checked himself into rehab. A mob of absolute fucking losers got off on this and started mocking him for it and now here we are


Wow.

If this is in regards to his wife dying then that is not nice.

And look at CEmen saying they are happy about it...
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Archibleedies
10/28/19 4:40:01 PM
#98:


noted irl dick gets treated like he's a dick, cries
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Hairistotle
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EverDownward
10/28/19 4:47:01 PM
#99:


He has my sympathies in that drug addiction, mental or physical, is fucking horrific and I sincerely hope he manages to overcome it.
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take me somewhere nice
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Esrac
10/28/19 4:57:31 PM
#100:


I don't really care for his big following, but I kind of get how he would appeal to aimless young men. I also don't get the back lash against him, but I don't think I've heard much from him that I would consider particularly objectionable. He uses a bit too much metaphor though.
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