Current Events > Writing Topic

(+) Yeah! (+)

How is/are your project(s) coming along?

My novel is going through beta reading right now. Need to get it back soon so I can go through my second re-write and polish it up to query.

Trying to get it done before November so I can do that NaNoWriMo thing

How about you all?

You tell me

Mouth of a troubadour, teeth of a carnivore, a cannibals mandible chews you up and shits you out like dinosaur
So regular it's disgusting
A miracle of lyrical construction
Keyboards crushing all the internets these words are touching
I parry like an editor, riposte you like a creditor
Put you in debt with typeset that you need loan to offset it
I'm so oral that it's anal
Not shitting it out on the regular would be fatal
DefecatingwordsturdsCascading
---

Whaa I didn't know you were writing a novel! :O

How did you get your beta reader? The whole process seems extremely tricky to me. I scouted a guy from reddit who apparently is all about beta reading and is great at criticism and does it with a big discount compared to usual beta readers for hire.

I'm 116k words into my own novel. It'll probably end up around a bloated 200k words.

What's your book about?
---

Been scribbling in my journal. Just bought it last month. May need to buy a new one before 2020.

spanky1 posted...

Whaa I didn't know you were writing a novel! :O

How did you get your beta reader? The whole process seems extremely tricky to me. I scouted a guy from reddit who apparently is all about beta reading and is great at criticism and does it with a big discount compared to usual beta readers for hire.

I'm 116k words into my own novel. It'll probably end up around a bloated 200k words.

What's your book about?

I know one person that actually reads so I used her. Thought about joining a writing group around as well but don't have much time for that. My beta ready will not be industry or anything like that. All I asked of her was to tell me where pacing is off, where something doesn't make sense, etc. No suggestions on fixes, but simply structural issues.

Are you planning on trying to sell your novel? 200k is really big if you aren't published. Even for fantasy / sci-fi. Sounds like you know you'll have to cut quite a bit.

I have the opposite issue since I wrote an adventure thriller. I was very plot heavy and by the time I ran through my first draft, I was at about 70k words. I added in a few side plots and another character to arc through which gave it some more depth. Now it's at around 80k words with more world building and better character dev.

On my re-write it'll probably go up to around 85-90k. Then I'll send to agents.

But I do have a few new premises and I'm trying to figure out which one will stick

Sci-fi thriller - premise is in the future, we clone ourselves as our own representatives for voting. But after a while, the clones end up voting against their own interest.

Psychological thriller - teacher has a kid in class that tells her he's going to shoot the school up, but denies every time she mentions it to someone and starts to think she's losing her mind.

Middle Grade - Werewolf man that lives behind the school

I suck at first person POV and since middle grade is heavy into that, I probably won't be working on it just yet.

Romes187 posted...

spanky1 posted...

Whaa I didn't know you were writing a novel! :O

How did you get your beta reader? The whole process seems extremely tricky to me. I scouted a guy from reddit who apparently is all about beta reading and is great at criticism and does it with a big discount compared to usual beta readers for hire.

I'm 116k words into my own novel. It'll probably end up around a bloated 200k words.

What's your book about?

I know one person that actually reads so I used her. Thought about joining a writing group around as well but don't have much time for that. My beta ready will not be industry or anything like that. All I asked of her was to tell me where pacing is off, where something doesn't make sense, etc. No suggestions on fixes, but simply structural issues.

Are you planning on trying to sell your novel? 200k is really big if you aren't published. Even for fantasy / sci-fi. Sounds like you know you'll have to cut quite a bit.

I have the opposite issue since I wrote an adventure thriller. I was very plot heavy and by the time I ran through my first draft, I was at about 70k words. I added in a few side plots and another character to arc through which gave it some more depth. Now it's at around 80k words with more world building and better character dev.

On my re-write it'll probably go up to around 85-90k. Then I'll send to agents.

I'm not going to go traditional publishing for mine, I already know it wouldn't work. It's definitely too big, it'd need to be around 120k words max. I'm gonna publish through Amazon. I even already have a cover and everything.
---

Oh nice. What genre?

If I had a platform, self publishing would be more enticing to me. Though if no one wants to buy the book (and odds are they wont) its a pretty low barrier to entry to getting it out there and available. Just hard to reach people.

Though Ive often though a well placed Facebook ad could reach a shit ton of people for 20 bucks a day. Just depends if you can get the right messaging.

Marketing is what I do for a living so maybe I could still make a little dough.

Either way writing the novel and actually finishing feels nice

It's your basic fantasy setting, but low key on the fantastical, Martin and Abercrombie style. Mostly deals with redeeming fallen villains, turning them into unlikely heroes, and sweet, sweet revenge.

I dunno, I did a lot of looking into traditional publishing, and the more I looked into it, the more unappealing it became. It's such an incredibly long process, too. I feel like it would just be too disheartening for me to pursue.

All I want to do is have my book in hand, anyway. I don't plan on making any money from it one way or another, so might as well self-publish.
---

Were you the guy who triggered a CEman so hard when you told him to write a novel?

ToPoPO posted...

Were you the guy who triggered a CEman so hard when you told him to write a novel?

Yessir :)

spanky1 posted...

It's your basic fantasy setting, but low key on the fantastical, Martin and Abercrombie style. Mostly deals with redeeming fallen villains, turning them into unlikely heroes, and sweet, sweet revenge.

I dunno, I did a lot of looking into traditional publishing, and the more I looked into it, the more unappealing it became. It's such an incredibly long process, too. I feel like it would just be too disheartening for me to pursue.

All I want to do is have my book in hand, anyway. I don't plan on making any money from it one way or another, so might as well self-publish.

Nice man. Would love to read it when its finished

I would advise against NaNoWriMo

Haven't written anything in awhile but I've been considering tightening up the last thing I was working on.

Juhanor posted...

I would advise against NaNoWriMo

Haven't written anything in awhile but I've been considering tightening up the last thing I was working on.

Yeah? I wasnt gonna do it officially and had planned on setting a 50k deadline for the month. I wrote the 80k Im talking about in 2 months so I could do it I think.

But thats only if I can get this one in good enough shape to query. I need to start on the next one anyways

Been stuck in editing hell for over two years now. I have the book written from start to finish, but I was still figuring stuff out as I went along and it's a futuristic setting that was pretty complicated to figure out all the moving parts of, so there are a lot of contradictions to iron out. Also changed the plot a few times -- all for the better, but it's made for a metric fuck-ton of revision and I'm burning myself out.

Supposed to be a trilogy, so I can only hope that the next two will be easier now that I've figured it all out and set a bunch of world details in stone.
---

Romes187 posted...

Yeah? I wasnt gonna do it officially and had planned on setting a 50k deadline for the month. I wrote the 80k Im talking about in 2 months so I could do it I think.

Yeah. Although NaNo technically encourages finishing a draft, in my experience what authors actually gain is a mindset of output over input. Basically, favoring finishing as many drafts as they can and not editing and polishing what they've already done.

Now this isn't a bad thing per se, especially if one struggles to complete even one draft, but I feel like in the long term, rushing out a novel, another novel, another novel, inevitably leads to burn out and disillusionment. Breaking that mindset takes a lot more effort than writing a draft in one month, tbh. So that's why I'd advise against NaNo, especially if you already have the gumption to finish things at your own rate.

Rebooted an older project of mine. Im committed to get a manuscript finished before the end of the year.

Another project is on indefinite hold as I try to figure out how Im going to structure it. What I want it to be may just not work as a novel.
---

I wrote a psychological horror novel in 2016 and then spent 2017 editing and getting it beta read. It still needs a lot of work but I am a bit stuck. My main problems are that I was a heavy drinking mentally ill person in 2016 and now I'm not and I'm having problems connecting with my frame of mind from back then, and also my work atm requires a lot more screen time so I don't really feel like sitting in front of another one when I get home.

Btw absolutewrite is a good place to find beta readers.

Anyone here have a preference for pantsing versus outlining?

I do a little of both but I think pantsing helps me finish because I'm genuinely surprised and excited when something happens in the story.

I guess its true what they say - the first draft is so you can tell yourself the story.

knutjob posted...

I wrote a psychological horror novel in 2016 and then spent 2017 editing and getting it beta read. It still needs a lot of work but I am a bit stuck. My main problems are that I was a heavy drinking mentally ill person in 2016 and now I'm not and I'm having problems connecting with my frame of mind from back then, and also my work atm requires a lot more screen time so I don't really feel like sitting in front of another one when I get home.

Btw absolutewrite is a good place to find beta readers.

I would say start a new book and write what makes you want to write more

Romes187 posted...

Anyone here have a preference for pantsing versus outlining?

I do a little of both but I think pantsing helps me finish because I'm genuinely surprised and excited when something happens in the story.

I guess its true what they say - the first draft is so you can tell yourself the story.

I outline but only in my head, so I dont know what that makes me. I know the full plot before I write the story, but some details may be missing or not fully fleshed out, and I leave room for new stuff if it hits me.
---

I still write reviews on Gamefaqs as a hobby. I'll probably do Resident Evil 4 and Serious Sam HD in the upcoming weeks.
---

Romes187 posted...

Anyone here have a preference for pantsing versus outlining?

I do a little of both but I think pantsing helps me finish because I'm genuinely surprised and excited when something happens in the story.

I guess its true what they say - the first draft is so you can tell yourself the story.

I usually start out making stuff up as I go along. When I have a decent foundation, I flesh out the players and build an outline. And then I repeat the process in chunks, and then go back and edit them to streamline together.
---

spanky1 posted...

I outline but only in my head, so I dont know what that makes me. I know the full plot before I write the story, but some details may be missing or not fully fleshed out, and I leave room for new stuff if it hits me.

Man I dunno how you can keep a full plot in your head. I mean, I can keep my story in my head. But the plot usually has too many scenes for me to remember. Plus a lot are off the top of my head.

Superlinkbro posted...

I still write reviews on Gamefaqs as a hobby. I'll probably do Resident Evil 4 and Serious Sam HD in the upcoming weeks.

Nice! Any writing is good writing :)

AlisLandale posted...

I usually start out making stuff up as I go along. When I have a decent foundation, I flesh out the players and build an outline. And then I repeat the process in chunks, and then go back and edit them to streamline together.

Yeah I'm similar. Especially with characters because I don't give them too much backstory before writing. I really discover them through getting the plot down, then on re-writes I flesh out what they'd really say at that point. This can also change the scene by quite a bit

Romes187 posted...

Anyone here have a preference for pantsing versus outlining?

I do a little of both but I think pantsing helps me finish because I'm genuinely surprised and excited when something happens in the story.

I guess its true what they say - the first draft is so you can tell yourself the story.

I do a mix as well. Outlining was the way I initially thought would work better for me, but as I write I end up pantsing more.

---

Heres another writing

Aces and eights, hand of a dead man, the hand of a joker
Queen in the hole, poker face down on the table
Hit with a blackjack when ever Im able
Ante up or just say uncle, suicide king of the jungle
jack of all spades master of none, hearts in the right place when the deal is done
---

I wish I could write in first person better

R1masher posted...

Heres another writing

Aces and eights, hand of a dead man, the hand of a joker
Queen in the hole, poker face down on the table
Hit with a blackjack when ever Im able
Ante up or just say uncle, suicide king of the jungle
jack of all spades master of none, hearts in the right place when the deal is done

I like poetry

Here is a Haiku I wrote

La Belle Epoque

The ages of gold
Are often stacked above us
Idle with support

Ive been trying to get into writing a bit more, I feel like Im trying to do a lot at once. Im trying to read more, which is important when it comes to writing, but Im also trying to work on my drawing skills. With college work, I keep pushing it to the side. I really need to get more disciplined about it, I guess Im not serious enough about it.
---

Romes187 posted...

I wish I could write in first person better

Do you read with an eye specifically toward improving your writing? At one point I noticed getting a little wordy, so I read The Complete Hemingway.

---

PerseusRad posted...

Ive been trying to get into writing a bit more, I feel like Im trying to do a lot at once. Im trying to read more, which is important when it comes to writing, but Im also trying to work on my drawing skills. With college work, I keep pushing it to the side. I really need to get more disciplined about it, I guess Im not serious enough about it.

It's important to remember that nothing you're doing creatively is a waste of time. I worked on a comic in college, and while it didn't turn into anything, it was still valuable experience. Certainly, I look back at it now and realize I wasn't ready for it, and am kind of glad it didn't go anywhere because... man, that stuff sucks.

---

PerseusRad posted...

Ive been trying to get into writing a bit more, I feel like Im trying to do a lot at once. Im trying to read more, which is important when it comes to writing, but Im also trying to work on my drawing skills. With college work, I keep pushing it to the side. I really need to get more disciplined about it, I guess Im not serious enough about it.

Is that your drawing in your sig?
---

PerseusRad posted...

Ive been trying to get into writing a bit more, I feel like Im trying to do a lot at once. Im trying to read more, which is important when it comes to writing, but Im also trying to work on my drawing skills. With college work, I keep pushing it to the side. I really need to get more disciplined about it, I guess Im not serious enough about it.

I read every single day out loud for about an hour. I feel it helps my prose more than just reading to myself internally.

vigorm0rtis posted...

Do you read with an eye specifically toward improving your writing? At one point I noticed getting a little wordy, so I read The Complete Hemingway.

I just don't read anything in first person. My wife enjoys more cinematic style books and third limited lends itself best to that in my opinion (and her's). I stick mainly to thrillers which is what I like to write. I'm not big into world building, but if I wanted to write a fantasy, I would DEFINITELY read some before jumping in. When you write genre fiction, there are expectations built into the package that you should probably adhere to.

vigorm0rtis posted...

It's important to remember that nothing you're doing creatively is a waste of time. I worked on a comic in college, and while it didn't turn into anything, it was still valuable experience. Certainly, I look back at it now and realize I wasn't ready for it, and am kind of glad it didn't go anywhere because... man, that stuff sucks.

My man! That's exactly right. I have a shit done of music compositions I've done (been playing my whole life) but I'll never go pro. Doesn't stop it from being fulfilling!

My friends and I have been toying around with the idea of making a game for like the last 5 years but we keep hitting roadblocks for the plot. Also we're not deluding ourselves into thinking we were going to make the next hit indie game, it's just a project we want to do to dump our favorite mechanics into and if it becomes popular then cool (also I legally can't make profits from the game if I dump in the AI mechanics I want)

Anyway tldr background aside, does anybody know of a good site with some interesting short stories that we could use as motivation? Or a good creative writing resource? I'm the programmer of the group and not the writer, but I havent programmed anything since we dont have a plot to motivate it
---

Romes187 posted...

When you write genre fiction, there are expectations built into the package that you should probably adhere to.

Interesting, I started writing in earnest again a few years ago and was struggling with not knowing what genre I was writing-- not that it mattered, I'm more or less happy with the work, but I didn't know what to do with it as I started chasing down publication avenues. Just a couple months ago I was chasing down few authors that I wanted to read more of and realized I've been writing 'new weird.'

---

MacadamianNut3 posted...

Anyway tldr background aside, does anybody know of a good site with some interesting short stories that we could use as motivation? Or a good creative writing resource? I'm the programmer of the group and not the writer, but I havent programmed anything since we dont have a plot to motivate it

There are a lot of articles and some decent masterclasses from some big authors. Writing excuses is a good podcast as each episode is about 15-20 mins on one topic and they have like 14 seasons of content

vigorm0rtis posted...

Interesting, I started writing in earnest again a few years ago and was struggling with not knowing what genre I was writing-- not that it mattered, I'm more or less happy with the work, but I didn't know what to do with it as I started chasing down publication avenues. Just a couple months ago I was chasing down few authors that I wanted to read more of and realized I've been writing 'new weird.'

It really depends on how you want to publish. If you go traditional, you will have to know its genre and have proper things happen.

For instance, if you write a mystery, there are things that are standard and readers of the genre will want to see them happen (but in new ways).

If you want to write literary fiction, that's a different story. But most of those books either stay within lit circles, or sell under 1000 copies.

Not saying there aren't breakouts but there is only so much shelf space in a barnes and noble, and a publisher needs to know your book can sit next to the greats in a particular genre. The business side of writing is interesting too (I'm an MBA and my background is in marketing so I naturally like this stuff)

DuranOfForcena posted...

as for the whole gardener vs. architect thing (i hate the term panster lol, it just sounds really stupid to me), i am a hardline architect. i've tried going the gardener route in the past and all it's lead to is scrapping draft after draft because i was never satisfied with where and how it began or with trying to write characters that i didn't really have a proper characterization nailed down for

Are you a fan of GRRM? I know he uses those terms...yeah pantser sounds dumb but people seem to know it hah.

Have you tried to just keep writing? I knew there were a shit ton of things I'd need to change, but for the most part (unless it was absolutely glaring) I didn't go back to change it on the first draft. Or you might just be more comfortable outlining more. I find motivation to keep writing comes from me not knowing how things will turn out. If I know, it kills the surprise a bit (or at least how they get to the end needs to be unknown)

DuranOfForcena posted...

i've been working on the same epic fantasy/arcanepunk project for like half my life, but only in recent years has it taken a pretty solid shape, although only in the forms of an outline, notes and an extensive fleshing out of history and lore. and characters. i've been focusing heavily on getting that completed for a couple years now before i start another draft in earnest. i think it's gone pretty well so far. only time will tell for sure though.

That's awesome, and I'll just say that everything I've learned says you need to give that story up and start another one (again, if your goal is to get published).

You're likely way too close to the story and if you world build too much, you might think you need to inject every single detail because "of course people want to read it - the damn world is awesome!". And that might even be true, but make sure to get characters to interact with that world, because the interaction is what interests people. You don't want to info dump anything in the first chapter in my opinion.

New writers want to over explain because they think the reader needs to know 'this' detail otherwise the scene won't make sense. What they call "Won't make sense" I call "adding mystery and curiosity".

Then later on in the book, you info dump and they're so thankful because now the info is relevant to the character they've invested time into.

I write fiction but I don't read much. I think at this point I just prefer writing my own stories.

---

DuranOfForcena posted...

yeah i understand that no matter what happens, the first draft will be rough and probably pretty shitty, and the true potential is only realized after editing and redrafting and editing and redrafting etc. but i have tried to just keep writing in the past and it never felt right. the motivation for me is the opposite. if i don't know what happens next, then i struggle to pin down the reason for why i am writing the part that i am writing and what it is supposed to accomplish to further the narrative. if i feel like i don't know what it is supposed to accomplish, then i just end up questioning why i am writing this part at all. so outlining has definitely helped me figure out exactly what i need to write and why. my project involves a pretty intricate and multi-faceted history with a lot of moving pieces and separate threads that need to be tied together. i've found it's just impossible for me to develop it in any meaningful or satisfying way without knowing what all those threads and pieces are.

Gotcha. So one thing that helped me was definitely knowing where the characters were, and where they needed to get to next. But one thing I always did while creating the journey between the two was to inject some kind of crazy shit that I didn't think I'd be able to write myself out of. For example, there's a scene in my book where the main characters discover a clue that helps them find their next destination. Originally it was going to go somewhat smooth, but I decided to put the antagonist in the scene and he ends up literally kidnapping one of the characters on his way out.

Then I had to figure out how to make the timing work since the bad guy was taking the character about 6 hours north, the other characters needed to do something in opposite directions....etc etc...

So I had them split up and figured a way to make it all work nicely. And what was cool was the harder the position I put them in, the more clever the solution needed to be...and thats actually more interesting to read imo

DuranOfForcena posted...

yeah, i'm well aware of stuff like this. the worldbuilding is mostly for me and my own piece of mind. of course i'm not gonna do info dumps or inject too many details that don't make any difference. the readers will be fed what they need to know. but for me to do that effectively, i need to know everything. that's been my main goal lately.

Gotcha - if you can build an iceberg appropriately (only showing 10% but implying the other 90% under the water) it works so well and makes the world seem huge without being boring.

I may have the opposite problem where I didn't world build enough. But I'm going to let my reader tell me what they thought on that.

There once was a man from Nantucket
Who frantically picked up a bucket
He pissed amd he puked
He shat and he pooped
Then proudly proclaimed, "eh, fuck it."
---

There once was a dirty old whore
Whose pussy smelled like albacore
When the juices started dripping
Her feet would get to slipping
Then youd have to fuck her down on the floor
---

R1masher posted...

PerseusRad posted...

Ive been trying to get into writing a bit more, I feel like Im trying to do a lot at once. Im trying to read more, which is important when it comes to writing, but Im also trying to work on my drawing skills. With college work, I keep pushing it to the side. I really need to get more disciplined about it, I guess Im not serious enough about it.

Is that your drawing in your sig?

LOL I guess it is, that was like years ago and a joke, I forgot it was even there.
---

Im starting outline a short story about the competitive eating world, but I definitely need to do more research on the subject (why people get into it, contest prep, aftermaths, etc).

I need to start reading more too. Ive definitely been slacking lately.

For those that have published novels, can you drop a link for it? Howd the release/reception/sales go? Id love to read what others from this board have written.
---

HotLap posted...

Im starting outline a short story about the competitive eating world, but I definitely need to do more research on the subject (why people get into it, contest prep, aftermaths, etc).

Sounds like a fun story

HotLap posted...

For those that have published novels, can you drop a link for it? Howd the release/reception/sales go? Id love to read what others from this board have written.

Same. I know someone on LUE was published, but it was sci-fi and got pretty bad reviews...dunno how many copies he sold.

I think the majority of debut authors sell under 1k copies and get around a 5k advance from what I've heard and read. But again, sometimes niche fiction like sci-fi, fantasy, horror, westerns....they have a dedicated readership, but it isn't mainstream fiction so the numbers never get super high.

Butt Weathermen Do
---

spanky1 posted...

Butt Weathermen Do

haha yeah that was it

Romes187 posted...

I would say start a new book and write what makes you want to write more

I think starting again entirely would be even harder if I knew all my work so far was for nothing. I want to just get back writing short stories again and see how I feel if I get my mojo back.