socialism is more accepted now, what is the answer for slackers?

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Squall28 09/26/19 9:28:14 AM #1:	One of the departments at our company is ran by a guy who is really being a team. Everyone sharers in success and failure. However, some are harder workers than others. So for example last night was super busy. Some of them were busting their asses and doing as much as they can. Others were laughing and talking most of the night. We ended up missing the deadline, and now the whole team is being punished for it. Like I realize nepotism is a huge problem along with a host of problems that keep people down, but let's just admit that some people are lazy and useless. We can work to get everyone equal opportunity, but that's not the same as pure redistribution of wealth. --- If you're going through hell, keep going. -Winston Churchill <cite>Squall28 posted [p:927966977] in Since comm... [t:78042899]...</cite> <quote>One of the departments at our company is ran by a guy who is really being a team. Everyone sharers in success and failure. However, some are harder workers than others. So for example last night was super busy. Some of them were busting their asses and doing as much as they can. Others were laughing and talking most of the night. We ended up missing the deadline, and now the whole team is being punished for it. Like I realize nepotism is a huge problem along with a host of problems that keep people down, but let's just admit that some people are lazy and useless. We can work to get everyone equal opportunity, but that's not the same as pure redistribution of wealth.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheMikh 09/26/19 9:35:23 AM #2:	under state communism, imprisonment or worse tends to be the punishment for slackers, similar to the punishment for people that outperform state socialism is not that severe, they're presumably just tolerated, poisoning the work culture and dragging the entire society down until everyone starts to slack, inevitably creating a productivity deficit the government must print money to make up for until the economy crashes from hyperinflation --- https://imgur.com/A0TAfek <cite>TheMikh posted [p:927967189] in Since comm... [t:78042899]...</cite> <quote>under state communism, imprisonment or worse tends to be the punishment for slackers, similar to the punishment for people that outperform state socialism is not that severe, they're presumably just tolerated, poisoning the work culture and dragging the entire society down until everyone starts to slack, inevitably creating a productivity deficit the government must print money to make up for until the economy crashes from hyperinflation</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
John_Galt 09/26/19 9:38:39 AM #3:	Squall28 posted... but let's just admit that some people are lazy and useless. Agreed --- Who is John Galt? <cite>John_Galt posted [p:927967291] in Since comm... [t:78042899]...</cite> <quote>Squall28 posted...</cite> <quote>but let's just admit that some people are lazy and useless. </quote> Agreed</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
averagejoel 09/26/19 9:40:59 AM #4:	Squall28 posted... Like I realize nepotism is a huge problem along with a host of problems that keep people down, but let's just admit that some people are lazy and useless. We can work to get everyone equal opportunity, but that's not the same as pure redistribution of wealth. "equal opportunity" is meaningless. everyone, by virtue of being different people, is always going to have different opportunities, and not all of them will be equal. it's irrelevant to any socialist thought. redistribution of wealth is also useless as it does nothing to prevent that wealth from accumulating again. it is also not a relevant part of socialist thought --- peanut butter and dick <cite>averagejoel posted [p:927967356] in Since comm... [t:78042899]...</cite> <quote>Squall28 posted...</cite> <quote>Like I realize nepotism is a huge problem along with a host of problems that keep people down, but let's just admit that some people are lazy and useless. We can work to get everyone equal opportunity, but that's not the same as pure redistribution of wealth.</quote> "equal opportunity" is meaningless. everyone, by virtue of being different people, is always going to have different opportunities, and not all of them will be equal. it's irrelevant to any socialist thought. redistribution of wealth is also useless as it does nothing to prevent that wealth from accumulating again. it is also not a relevant part of socialist thought</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
EndOfDiscOne 09/26/19 9:43:52 AM #5:	These "slackers" are not as fortunate as the "achievers" because they're often dealing with other issues such as mental problems, less fortunate upbringing, or just a genetic makeup not suited to excel in the workforce. The team should support these people because it's a net benefit for the whole. --- I am the Cheese! I am the best character on the show! I am better than both the salami and the bologna *COMBINED!* <cite>EndOfDiscOne posted [p:927967430] in Since comm... [t:78042899]...</cite> <quote>These "slackers" are not as fortunate as the "achievers" because they're often dealing with other issues such as mental problems, less fortunate upbringing, or just a genetic makeup not suited to excel in the workforce. The team should support these people because it's a net benefit for the whole.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
gloBal enemy 09/26/19 9:45:42 AM #6:	Squall28 posted... One of the departments at our company is ran by a guy who is really being a team. Everyone sharers in success and failure. However, some are harder workers than others. So for example last night was super busy. Some of them were busting their asses and doing as much as they can. Others were laughing and talking most of the night. We ended up missing the deadline, and now the whole team is being punished for it. Like I realize nepotism is a huge problem along with a host of problems that keep people down, but let's just admit that some people are lazy and useless. We can work to get everyone equal opportunity, but that's not the same as pure redistribution of wealth. Sounds like whoever is leading that team did a crap job of managing the team around achieving the deadline. Some (not all) people will do as little as they can get away with. --- If you can understand this, I'm 2/cosC for you. <cite>gloBal enemy posted [p:927967486] in Since comm... [t:78042899]...</cite> <quote>Squall28 posted... </cite> <quote>One of the departments at our company is ran by a guy who is really being a team. Everyone sharers in success and failure. However, some are harder workers than others. So for example last night was super busy. Some of them were busting their asses and doing as much as they can. Others were laughing and talking most of the night. We ended up missing the deadline, and now the whole team is being punished for it. Like I realize nepotism is a huge problem along with a host of problems that keep people down, but let's just admit that some people are lazy and useless. We can work to get everyone equal opportunity, but that's not the same as pure redistribution of wealth.</quote> Sounds like whoever is leading that team did a crap job of managing the team around achieving the deadline. Some (not all) people will do as little as they can get away with. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Squall28 09/26/19 9:47:21 AM #7:	Equal opportunity is stuff like public schools and assistance programs like ESOL. I owe the success I have in life to those teachers I had along the way because my parents were poor refugees that didn't know anything. So efforts to equalize opportunities are not meaningless at all. It has helped countless people like me bring their family out of poverty. --- If you're going through hell, keep going. -Winston Churchill <cite>Squall28 posted [p:927967535] in Since comm... [t:78042899]...</cite> <quote>Equal opportunity is stuff like public schools and assistance programs like ESOL. I owe the success I have in life to those teachers I had along the way because my parents were poor refugees that didn't know anything. So efforts to equalize opportunities are not meaningless at all. It has helped countless people like me bring their family out of poverty.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
gloBal enemy 09/26/19 9:48:20 AM #8:	Squall28 posted... Equal opportunity is stuff like public schools and assistance programs like ESOL. I owe the success I have in life to those teachers I had along the way because my parents were poor refugees that didn't know anything. So efforts to equalize opportunities are not meaningless at all. It has helped countless people like me bring their family out of poverty. I also fail to see how equal opportunity relates to the scenario you described in the original post. --- If you can understand this, I'm 2/cosC for you. <cite>gloBal enemy posted [p:927967559] in Since comm... [t:78042899]...</cite> <quote>Squall28 posted... </cite> <quote>Equal opportunity is stuff like public schools and assistance programs like ESOL. I owe the success I have in life to those teachers I had along the way because my parents were poor refugees that didn't know anything. So efforts to equalize opportunities are not meaningless at all. It has helped countless people like me bring their family out of poverty.</quote> I also fail to see how equal opportunity relates to the scenario you described in the original post. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
averagejoel 09/26/19 9:49:38 AM #9:	Squall28 posted... Equal opportunity is stuff like public schools and assistance programs like ESOL. I owe the success I have in life to those teachers I had along the way because my parents were poor refugees that didn't know anything. So efforts to equalize opportunities are not meaningless at all. It has helped countless people like me bring their family out of poverty. how are you defining "equal" in this context? --- peanut butter and dick <cite>averagejoel posted [p:927967604] in Since comm... [t:78042899]...</cite> <quote>Squall28 posted...</cite> <quote>Equal opportunity is stuff like public schools and assistance programs like ESOL. I owe the success I have in life to those teachers I had along the way because my parents were poor refugees that didn't know anything. So efforts to equalize opportunities are not meaningless at all. It has helped countless people like me bring their family out of poverty.</quote> how are you defining "equal" in this context?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Squall28 09/26/19 9:49:38 AM #10:	EndOfDiscOne posted... These "slackers" are not as fortunate as the "achievers" because they're often dealing with other issues such as mental problems, less fortunate upbringing, or just a genetic makeup not suited to excel in the workforce. The team should support these people because it's a net benefit for the whole. Yeah no. Those slackers were laughing and horsing around most of the night. They weren't suffering from anything but Idontgiveacrapitis. --- If you're going through hell, keep going. -Winston Churchill <cite>Squall28 posted [p:927967606] in Since comm... [t:78042899]...</cite> <quote>EndOfDiscOne posted...</cite> <quote>These "slackers" are not as fortunate as the "achievers" because they're often dealing with other issues such as mental problems, less fortunate upbringing, or just a genetic makeup not suited to excel in the workforce. The team should support these people because it's a net benefit for the whole.</quote> Yeah no. Those slackers were laughing and horsing around most of the night. They weren't suffering from anything but Idontgiveacrapitis.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
The Admiral 09/26/19 9:51:08 AM #11:	If someone actually embraces Communism, they should be fine with the slackers being sent to a gulag or lined up against the wall and shot. --- - The Admiral <cite>The Admiral posted [p:927967652] in Since comm... [t:78042899]...</cite> <quote>If someone actually embraces Communism, they should be fine with the slackers being sent to a gulag or lined up against the wall and shot. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
gloBal enemy 09/26/19 9:57:15 AM #12:	averagejoel posted... how are you defining "equal" in this context? Equal opportunity is never going to be 'truly' equal to everyone but it's around reducing some of the barriers which prevent or hinder lower socio-economic (or other disadvantaged class of people) from accessing certain opportunities without these deliberate interventions... and also to help reduce class warfare. All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others. --- If you can understand this, I'm 2/cosC for you. <cite>gloBal enemy posted [p:927967867] in Since comm... [t:78042899]...</cite> <quote>averagejoel posted... </cite> <quote>how are you defining "equal" in this context?</quote> Equal opportunity is never going to be 'truly' equal to everyone but it's around reducing some of the barriers which prevent or hinder lower socio-economic (or other disadvantaged class of people) from accessing certain opportunities without these deliberate interventions... and also to help reduce class warfare. All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
averagejoel 09/26/19 10:00:48 AM #13:	gloBal enemy posted... averagejoel posted... how are you defining "equal" in this context? Equal opportunity is never going to be 'truly' equal to everyone but it's around reducing some of the barriers which prevent or hinder lower socio-economic (or other disadvantaged class of people) from accessing certain opportunities without these deliberate interventions... and also to help reduce class warfare. All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others. in other words, the goal here is not some abstract concept of "equality", rather, the concrete and specific goal of "reducing some of the barriers which prevent or hinder lower socio-economic (or other disadvantaged class of people) from accessing certain opportunities" --- peanut butter and dick <cite>averagejoel posted [p:927967993] in Since comm... [t:78042899]...</cite> <quote>gloBal enemy posted...</cite> <quote>averagejoel posted... </cite> <quote>how are you defining "equal" in this context?</quote> Equal opportunity is never going to be 'truly' equal to everyone but it's around reducing some of the barriers which prevent or hinder lower socio-economic (or other disadvantaged class of people) from accessing certain opportunities without these deliberate interventions... and also to help reduce class warfare. All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others. </quote> in other words, the goal here is not some abstract concept of "equality", rather, the concrete and specific goal of "reducing some of the barriers which prevent or hinder lower socio-economic (or other disadvantaged class of people) from accessing certain opportunities"</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Tyranthraxus 09/26/19 10:06:15 AM #15:	The USSR would give hard workers / high achievers in school premium property and amenities. The slackers got to live in some of the shittiest conditions in the world. They made it abundantly clear you don't have to work but if you don't there's going to be problems for you. And if you do work there state reaps the benefits and decides what part of that is your compensation. --- It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha." https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv <cite>Tyranthraxus posted [p:927968190] in Since comm... [t:78042899]...</cite> <quote>The USSR would give hard workers / high achievers in school premium property and amenities. The slackers got to live in some of the shittiest conditions in the world. They made it abundantly clear you don't have to work but if you don't there's going to be problems for you. And if you do work there state reaps the benefits and decides what part of that is your compensation. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
IShall_Run_Amok 09/26/19 10:07:36 AM #16:	There's a wide spectrum of "lazy and useless". Some people just want to bum around and do nothing all day, and are satisfied with little else but food, drink, and maybe getting laid from time to time. Some people want to bum around and do nothing all day while raking in the fruits of their fellows' labors for vast personal gain. In our current society, the former is seen in a far harsher light than the latter, which seems all kinds of backwards to me, especially when you consider that young people, mentally and physically ill people, or just plain eccentric individuals who haven't found a proper (profitable) outlet for their abilities, are often lumped into that former category, and we elect the latter to public office pretty much every time. Obviously, the former guy should be doing something to help out from time to time, but the Mitt Romneys and Donald Trumps of the world are infinitely more dangerous and leach off of society on a much grander scale. In a communist or anarchist society, they - not the first guy, not the ill, the young or the eccentric - would be most likely to rise up and make another Staliny mess of things. Suffice it to say, its bad to try and force lazy people into positions of responsibility because they'll muff it (and otherwise may be harmless or have something undiscovered in their nature that, in fact, could make them very useful indeed), the young need to learn to do some work, the ill need all the help they can get, weirdos need to be appreciated for their individual quirks and creativities, and the parasitic "bosses" need to be kept on a short leash wrapped around a thick tree, regardless of whether your society is communist or whatever. I dunno if this answers the question, but its how I feel on the matter. --- Jon can I smell you <cite>IShall_Run_Amok posted [p:927968241] in Since comm... [t:78042899]...</cite> <quote>There's a wide spectrum of "lazy and useless". Some people just want to bum around and do nothing all day, and are satisfied with little else but food, drink, and maybe getting laid from time to time. Some people want to bum around and do nothing all day while raking in the fruits of their fellows' labors for vast personal gain. In our current society, the former is seen in a far harsher light than the latter, which seems all kinds of backwards to me, especially when you consider that young people, mentally and physically ill people, or just plain eccentric individuals who haven't found a proper (profitable) outlet for their abilities, are often lumped into that former category, and we elect the latter to public office pretty much every time. Obviously, the former guy should be doing something to help out from time to time, but the Mitt Romneys and Donald Trumps of the world are infinitely more dangerous and leach off of society on a much grander scale. In a communist or anarchist society, they - not the first guy, not the ill, the young or the eccentric - would be most likely to rise up and make another Staliny mess of things. Suffice it to say, its bad to try and force lazy people into positions of responsibility because they'll muff it (and otherwise may be harmless or have something undiscovered in their nature that, in fact, could make them very useful indeed), the young need to learn to do some work, the ill need all the help they can get, weirdos need to be appreciated for their individual quirks and creativities, and the parasitic "bosses" need to be kept on a short leash wrapped around a thick tree, regardless of whether your society is communist or whatever. I dunno if this answers the question, but its how I feel on the matter.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Squall28 09/26/19 10:12:49 AM #17:	gloBal enemy posted... I also fail to see how equal opportunity relates to the scenario you described in the original post. I only mentioned equal opportunity as an acknowledgement that I believe it is a goal worth striving for, and that providing help to the less fortunate is not something I'm against. how are you defining "equal" in this context? I believe that every should be given a chance to succeed if they are willing to put in the effort for it. The problem with no intervention is that everyone's upbringing is different and have different resources available to them. One guy can have parents that give him private tutors, connections for internships, and much more while another guy can have parents that have done nothing for him. In fact, he might have to take care of them. I believe in government programs to level the playing field in that regard. Also, I think everyone should have a job available to them if they demonstrate they are willing to put in the work. Finding a job can be a huge nightmare, especially if you are down on your luck already. Programs that can help with that, or if there's some government job available to them, I'll be all in for that. --- If you're going through hell, keep going. -Winston Churchill <cite>Squall28 posted [p:927968421] in Since comm... [t:78042899]...</cite> <quote>gloBal enemy posted...</cite> <quote>I also fail to see how equal opportunity relates to the scenario you described in the original post.</quote> I only mentioned equal opportunity as an acknowledgement that I believe it is a goal worth striving for, and that providing help to the less fortunate is not something I'm against. <quote>how are you defining "equal" in this context?</quote> I believe that every should be given a chance to succeed if they are willing to put in the effort for it. The problem with no intervention is that everyone's upbringing is different and have different resources available to them. One guy can have parents that give him private tutors, connections for internships, and much more while another guy can have parents that have done nothing for him. In fact, he might have to take care of them. I believe in government programs to level the playing field in that regard. Also, I think everyone should have a job available to them if they demonstrate they are willing to put in the work. Finding a job can be a huge nightmare, especially if you are down on your luck already. Programs that can help with that, or if there's some government job available to them, I'll be all in for that.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
averagejoel 09/26/19 10:49:00 AM #18:	Squall28 posted... I believe that every should be given a chance to succeed if they are willing to put in the effort for it. The problem with no intervention is that everyone's upbringing is different and have different resources available to them. One guy can have parents that give him private tutors, connections for internships, and much more while another guy can have parents that have done nothing for him. In fact, he might have to take care of them. I believe in government programs to level the playing field in that regard. Also, I think everyone should have a job available to them if they demonstrate they are willing to put in the work. Finding a job can be a huge nightmare, especially if you are down on your luck already. Programs that can help with that, or if there's some government job available to them, I'll be all in for that. I agree with every word of this. but these are very specific goals. "equal opportunity" is an extremely vague term, and I do not think it is an effective description of those goals --- peanut butter and dick <cite>averagejoel posted [p:927969710] in Since comm... [t:78042899]...</cite> <quote>Squall28 posted...</cite> <quote>I believe that every should be given a chance to succeed if they are willing to put in the effort for it. The problem with no intervention is that everyone's upbringing is different and have different resources available to them. One guy can have parents that give him private tutors, connections for internships, and much more while another guy can have parents that have done nothing for him. In fact, he might have to take care of them. I believe in government programs to level the playing field in that regard. Also, I think everyone should have a job available to them if they demonstrate they are willing to put in the work. Finding a job can be a huge nightmare, especially if you are down on your luck already. Programs that can help with that, or if there's some government job available to them, I'll be all in for that.</quote> I agree with every word of this. but these are very specific goals. "equal opportunity" is an extremely vague term, and I do not think it is an effective description of those goals</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
lightwarrior78 09/26/19 11:23:07 AM #19:	I think people that believe in those systems don't think slackers exist. They think we're all being held down by undue hardship and we'll shine to brilliance once that all goes away. Those of us with real jobs know better. Sometimes it's the workplace idiot that thinks getting a piece of paper into a box by a certain time is just too hard to do every month. Sometimes it's the family member without a job that spends their day on facebook, smoking weed, and begging for help with anything they don't want to do (bonus point if it's like my one cousin that gets very abusive if work done for her out of the goodness of another's heart isn't perfect.) Either way, we know people can be lazy, either directly by not wanting to do anything, or indirectly by not learning good work habits that would keep them on the proper task. And to be fair, it's at all levels. Management is full of idiots and slackers that charmed their way into high positions now needing a different paid position to do work they see beneath them or aren't good at. Dilbert cartoons wouldn't still exist if that wasn't the case. I think those systems could work if this was addressed, and they certainly would go over better with the population as a whole. It just wouldn't go over well with the bleeding hearts and slackers think it will all work out somehow instead of bringing in the hard line boss to say "you don't get to draw comic all day. We need people in the fields or in the hospitals providing care, so you will go into those fields and you will work your best at them, or you will only be having your basic needs met. Luxury and leisure can go to those providing to the state what the state needs." --- http://backloggery.com/reddthesock <cite>lightwarrior78 posted [p:927971007] in Since comm... [t:78042899]...</cite> <quote>I think people that believe in those systems don't think slackers exist. They think we're all being held down by undue hardship and we'll shine to brilliance once that all goes away. Those of us with real jobs know better. Sometimes it's the workplace idiot that thinks getting a piece of paper into a box by a certain time is just too hard to do every month. Sometimes it's the family member without a job that spends their day on facebook, smoking weed, and begging for help with anything they don't want to do (bonus point if it's like my one cousin that gets very abusive if work done for her out of the goodness of another's heart isn't perfect.) Either way, we know people can be lazy, either directly by not wanting to do anything, or indirectly by not learning good work habits that would keep them on the proper task. And to be fair, it's at all levels. Management is full of idiots and slackers that charmed their way into high positions now needing a different paid position to do work they see beneath them or aren't good at. Dilbert cartoons wouldn't still exist if that wasn't the case. I think those systems could work if this was addressed, and they certainly would go over better with the population as a whole. It just wouldn't go over well with the bleeding hearts and slackers think it will all work out somehow instead of bringing in the hard line boss to say "you don't get to draw comic all day. We need people in the fields or in the hospitals providing care, so you will go into those fields and you will work your best at them, or you will only be having your basic needs met. Luxury and leisure can go to those providing to the state what the state needs."</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AlephZero 09/26/19 11:24:28 AM #20:	gulag for reeducation --- "life is overrated" - Seiichi Omori 01001100 01010101 01000101 00100000 00110100 00110000 00110010 <cite>AlephZero posted [p:927971048] in Since comm... [t:78042899]...</cite> <quote>gulag for reeducation</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Machete 09/26/19 11:26:24 AM #21:	"ran" instead of run "sharers" Whining about communism and socialism and then ranting about irrelevant garbage Topic creator gets an F- for topic --- "Stop defending yourself." - Veggeta X <cite>Machete posted [p:927971109] in Since comm... [t:78042899]...</cite> <quote>"ran" instead of run "sharers" Whining about communism and socialism and then ranting about irrelevant garbage Topic creator gets an F- for topic</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Squall28 09/26/19 1:48:14 PM #22:	Machete posted... "ran" instead of run "sharers" Whining about communism and socialism and then ranting about irrelevant garbage Topic creator gets an F- for topic Calls out for irrelevant typos. Offers no answers or solutions Classic response of someone with nothing worthwhile to say --- If you're going through hell, keep going. -Winston Churchill <cite>Squall28 posted [p:927977153] in Since comm... [t:78042899]...</cite> <quote>Machete posted...</cite> <quote>"ran" instead of run "sharers" Whining about communism and socialism and then ranting about irrelevant garbage Topic creator gets an F- for topic</quote> Calls out for irrelevant typos. Offers no answers or solutions Classic response of someone with nothing worthwhile to say</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Machete 09/26/19 2:57:18 PM #23:	Squall28 posted... Machete posted... "ran" instead of run "sharers" Whining about communism and socialism and then ranting about irrelevant garbage Topic creator gets an F- for topic Calls out for irrelevant typos. Offers no answers or solutions Classic response of someone with nothing worthwhile to say "Waaaahhhhh" --- "Stop defending yourself." - Veggeta X <cite>Machete posted [p:927980087] in Since comm... [t:78042899]...</cite> <quote>Squall28 posted...</cite> <quote>Machete posted...</cite> <quote>"ran" instead of run "sharers" Whining about communism and socialism and then ranting about irrelevant garbage Topic creator gets an F- for topic</quote> Calls out for irrelevant typos. Offers no answers or solutions Classic response of someone with nothing worthwhile to say</quote> "Waaaahhhhh"</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Squall28 09/26/19 3:04:17 PM #24:	Machete posted... Squall28 posted... Machete posted... "ran" instead of run "sharers" Whining about communism and socialism and then ranting about irrelevant garbage Topic creator gets an F- for topic Calls out for irrelevant typos. Offers no answers or solutions Classic response of someone with nothing worthwhile to say "Waaaahhhhh" Yet another generic response from the toolbox of the clueless. Bravo. I'm sure your mother is proud. --- If you're going through hell, keep going. -Winston Churchill <cite>Squall28 posted [p:927980375] in Since comm... [t:78042899]...</cite> <quote>Machete posted...</cite> <quote>Squall28 posted...</cite> <quote>Machete posted...</cite> <quote>"ran" instead of run "sharers" Whining about communism and socialism and then ranting about irrelevant garbage Topic creator gets an F- for topic</quote> Calls out for irrelevant typos. Offers no answers or solutions Classic response of someone with nothing worthwhile to say</quote> "Waaaahhhhh"</quote> Yet another generic response from the toolbox of the clueless. Bravo. I'm sure your mother is proud.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pls 09/26/19 3:17:41 PM #25:	I've been thinking a lot about this and I think the question is a bad one. If society were to evolve beyond capitalism and to a higher form of society (distinct from the communism of the 1900s but still a lot more Marxian than what we see today), we'd be doing less types of work. Consider how much work these days is bullshit work doing nothing of any real value. Just paper pushing for the goal of extracting profit from natural resources or paper pushing for the sake of looking busy to keep earning a check. Well, what if we evolved as a society so that we were all scientists and engineers and doctors and just spent time working on installing and building better solar panels and wind farms and clean energy and advanced medicine? For the joy of it, not for a buck. So many useless jobs would vanish, and so much less time would be spent needing to slack in the first place. I wonder how much slacking happens because people aren't challenged to work on things they are passionate about, and are instead stuck working just to subsist. If we decentralized energy production, agriculture, medicine, by making them universally accessible...then the point of work would be to become better versions of ourselves as humans, not to "earn a living" --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>pls posted [p:927980936] in Since comm... [t:78042899]...</cite> <quote>I've been thinking a lot about this and I think the question is a bad one. If society were to evolve beyond capitalism and to a higher form of society (distinct from the communism of the 1900s but still a lot more Marxian than what we see today), we'd be doing less types of work. Consider how much work these days is bullshit work doing nothing of any real value. Just paper pushing for the goal of extracting profit from natural resources or paper pushing for the sake of looking busy to keep earning a check. Well, what if we evolved as a society so that we were all scientists and engineers and doctors and just spent time working on installing and building better solar panels and wind farms and clean energy and advanced medicine? For the joy of it, not for a buck. So many useless jobs would vanish, and so much less time would be spent needing to slack in the first place. I wonder how much slacking happens because people aren't challenged to work on things they are passionate about, and are instead stuck working just to subsist. If we decentralized energy production, agriculture, medicine, by making them universally accessible...then the point of work would be to become better versions of ourselves as humans, not to "earn a living"</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Machete 09/26/19 3:49:37 PM #26:	Squall28 posted... Machete posted... Squall28 posted... Machete posted... "ran" instead of run "sharers" Whining about communism and socialism and then ranting about irrelevant garbage Topic creator gets an F- for topic Calls out for irrelevant typos. Offers no answers or solutions Classic response of someone with nothing worthwhile to say "Waaaahhhhh" Yet another generic response from the toolbox of the clueless. Bravo. I'm sure your mother is proud. Actually, I'm the one who is proud of your mother. I'm not going into further detail on the subject though. --- "Stop defending yourself." - Veggeta X <cite>Machete posted [p:927982372] in Since comm... [t:78042899]...</cite> <quote>Squall28 posted...</cite> <quote>Machete posted...</cite> <quote>Squall28 posted...</cite> <quote>Machete posted...</cite> <quote>"ran" instead of run "sharers" Whining about communism and socialism and then ranting about irrelevant garbage Topic creator gets an F- for topic</quote> Calls out for irrelevant typos. Offers no answers or solutions Classic response of someone with nothing worthwhile to say</quote> "Waaaahhhhh"</quote> Yet another generic response from the toolbox of the clueless. Bravo. I'm sure your mother is proud.</quote> Actually, I'm the one who is proud of your mother. I'm not going into further detail on the subject though.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pls 09/26/19 4:02:22 PM #27:	Machete goin for that suspension I see --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>pls posted [p:927982934] in Since comm... [t:78042899]...</cite> <quote>Machete goin for that suspension I see</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Squall28 09/26/19 5:01:09 PM #28:	pls posted... I've been thinking a lot about this and I think the question is a bad one. If society were to evolve beyond capitalism and to a higher form of society (distinct from the communism of the 1900s but still a lot more Marxian than what we see today), we'd be doing less types of work. Consider how much work these days is bullshit work doing nothing of any real value. Just paper pushing for the goal of extracting profit from natural resources or paper pushing for the sake of looking busy to keep earning a check. Well, what if we evolved as a society so that we were all scientists and engineers and doctors and just spent time working on installing and building better solar panels and wind farms and clean energy and advanced medicine? For the joy of it, not for a buck. So many useless jobs would vanish, and so much less time would be spent needing to slack in the first place. I wonder how much slacking happens because people aren't challenged to work on things they are passionate about, and are instead stuck working just to subsist. If we decentralized energy production, agriculture, medicine, by making them universally accessible...then the point of work would be to become better versions of ourselves as humans, not to "earn a living" I think we're still a good ways off from that. There's a lot of stuff that needs to be automated before humans can get to the point of do whatever you want. --- If you're going through hell, keep going. -Winston Churchill <cite>Squall28 posted [p:927985579] in Since comm... [t:78042899]...</cite> <quote>pls posted...</cite> <quote>I've been thinking a lot about this and I think the question is a bad one. If society were to evolve beyond capitalism and to a higher form of society (distinct from the communism of the 1900s but still a lot more Marxian than what we see today), we'd be doing less types of work. Consider how much work these days is bullshit work doing nothing of any real value. Just paper pushing for the goal of extracting profit from natural resources or paper pushing for the sake of looking busy to keep earning a check. Well, what if we evolved as a society so that we were all scientists and engineers and doctors and just spent time working on installing and building better solar panels and wind farms and clean energy and advanced medicine? For the joy of it, not for a buck. So many useless jobs would vanish, and so much less time would be spent needing to slack in the first place. I wonder how much slacking happens because people aren't challenged to work on things they are passionate about, and are instead stuck working just to subsist. If we decentralized energy production, agriculture, medicine, by making them universally accessible...then the point of work would be to become better versions of ourselves as humans, not to "earn a living"</quote> I think we're still a good ways off from that. There's a lot of stuff that needs to be automated before humans can get to the point of do whatever you want.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
The Admiral 09/26/19 5:04:24 PM #29:	pls posted... If we decentralized energy production, agriculture, medicine, by making them universally accessible...then the point of work would be to become better versions of ourselves as humans, not to "earn a living" This will never happen. If people didn't have to work and were afforded infinite leisure time to "work on themselves," they'd end up wasting life away and sniping at each other like the users on this board. Or they'd just spend their days indulging and engaging in self destructive behaviors like rich socialites already do. It'd be the end of society. Humans evolved with the mentality of constant labor being required to support ourselves, and most of us don't do particularly well in the long run when that's no longer required. --- - The Admiral <cite>The Admiral posted [p:927985757] in Since comm... [t:78042899]...</cite> <quote>pls posted... </cite> <quote> If we decentralized energy production, agriculture, medicine, by making them universally accessible...then the point of work would be to become better versions of ourselves as humans, not to "earn a living"</quote> This will never happen. If people didn't have to work and were afforded infinite leisure time to "work on themselves," they'd end up wasting life away and sniping at each other like the users on this board. Or they'd just spend their days indulging and engaging in self destructive behaviors like rich socialites already do. It'd be the end of society. Humans evolved with the mentality of constant labor being required to support ourselves, and most of us don't do particularly well in the long run when that's no longer required. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Hop103 09/26/19 5:14:21 PM #30:	No, it's not. Only crazy, rich, predominately white folks want socialism. --- "In the name of the future moon I shall punish you"-Chibi Moon <cite>Hop103 posted [p:927986220] in Since comm... [t:78042899]...</cite> <quote>No, it's not. Only crazy, rich, predominately white folks want socialism.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
averagejoel 09/26/19 5:14:42 PM #31:	did... did Proudclad just gain an understanding of some basic socialist ideas? --- peanut butter and dick <cite>averagejoel posted [p:927986234] in Since comm... [t:78042899]...</cite> <quote>did... did Proudclad just gain an understanding of some basic socialist ideas?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
evil_zombie11 09/26/19 5:23:07 PM #32:	I'd run the gulags so you could send the lazy and stupid to me. Praise be to communism comrades --- Yo wtf Probably lifting or running... <cite>evil_zombie11 posted [p:927986618] in Since comm... [t:78042899]...</cite> <quote>I'd run the gulags so you could send the lazy and stupid to me. Praise be to communism comrades</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Squall28 09/26/19 6:02:04 PM #33:	The Admiral posted... pls posted... If we decentralized energy production, agriculture, medicine, by making them universally accessible...then the point of work would be to become better versions of ourselves as humans, not to "earn a living" This will never happen. If people didn't have to work and were afforded infinite leisure time to "work on themselves," they'd end up wasting life away and sniping at each other like the users on this board. Or they'd just spend their days indulging and engaging in self destructive behaviors like rich socialites already do. It'd be the end of society. Humans evolved with the mentality of constant labor being required to support ourselves, and most of us don't do particularly well in the long run when that's no longer required. I do know a lot of people who couldn't stand retirement and went back to work --- If you're going through hell, keep going. -Winston Churchill <cite>Squall28 posted [p:927988431] in Since comm... [t:78042899]...</cite> <quote>The Admiral posted...</cite> <quote>pls posted... </cite> <quote> If we decentralized energy production, agriculture, medicine, by making them universally accessible...then the point of work would be to become better versions of ourselves as humans, not to "earn a living"</quote> This will never happen. If people didn't have to work and were afforded infinite leisure time to "work on themselves," they'd end up wasting life away and sniping at each other like the users on this board. Or they'd just spend their days indulging and engaging in self destructive behaviors like rich socialites already do. It'd be the end of society. Humans evolved with the mentality of constant labor being required to support ourselves, and most of us don't do particularly well in the long run when that's no longer required. </quote> I do know a lot of people who couldn't stand retirement and went back to work</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pls 09/26/19 6:13:17 PM #34:	Squall28 posted... I think we're still a good ways off from that. There's a lot of stuff that needs to be automated before humans can get to the point of do whatever you want. Imo we could accomplish all of those things starting right now, getting to the point where food and energy production are clean, sustainable, plentiful, and ubiquitous. We just need the will to think big and act. The Admiral posted... pls posted... If we decentralized energy production, agriculture, medicine, by making them universally accessible...then the point of work would be to become better versions of ourselves as humans, not to "earn a living" This will never happen. If people didn't have to work and were afforded infinite leisure time to "work on themselves," they'd end up wasting life away and sniping at each other like the users on this board. Or they'd just spend their days indulging and engaging in self destructive behaviors like rich socialites already do. It'd be the end of society. Humans evolved with the mentality of constant labor being required to support ourselves, and most of us don't do particularly well in the long run when that's no longer required. You're missing the mark here. We have more leisure time now than we did 100 years ago, thanks to innovations like the washing machine and other kinds of automation, and yet we see that society has improved in life expectancy, happiness, and decreased rates of violence across the board. So it seems that a lot more leisure time is not necessary going to lead to wasting life away or indulging in destructive behaviors. But rather more time spent with family and friends and artistic pursuits, which are all noble things. I also didn't say that there wouldn't be work that needed to be done. Imo if we solve energy and food production, we're still going to need scientists, engineers, and doctors to research and investigate ways to do everything better. We'll always have work that needs to be done, a lot of it meaningful work. I wager that millions of people would gladly leave behind their shitty cubicle jobs to work planting trees and cleaning up the environment if they didn't need to worry about subsisting. I don't think people are wasting away in retirement because they stopped being a paper pusher for 40-60 hours a week. I think it's more because of a loss of purpose and meaning, where they've been conditioned to think that slaving away for the Man for a lifetime was giving them meaning. There's a lot richer meaning and purpose that we could pursue as a species than that. I also think you're confusing your subjective opinion on what it means to "waste life away" with objective truth. It's entirely possible that Person A thinks playing videogames is worth it and Person B thinks exploring nature is worth it and Person C thinks something else entirely. The point is to divorce the concept of work from the concept of needing to work. We are at the point technologically where we shouldn't need to conflate work with making a living. Isn't it time we started thinking bigger as a species? --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>pls posted [p:927988951] in Since comm... [t:78042899]...</cite> <quote>Squall28 posted...</cite> <quote>I think we're still a good ways off from that. There's a lot of stuff that needs to be automated before humans can get to the point of do whatever you want. </quote> Imo we could accomplish all of those things starting right now, getting to the point where food and energy production are clean, sustainable, plentiful, and ubiquitous. We just need the will to think big and act. The Admiral posted...</cite> <quote>pls posted... </cite> <quote> If we decentralized energy production, agriculture, medicine, by making them universally accessible...then the point of work would be to become better versions of ourselves as humans, not to "earn a living"</quote> This will never happen. If people didn't have to work and were afforded infinite leisure time to "work on themselves," they'd end up wasting life away and sniping at each other like the users on this board. Or they'd just spend their days indulging and engaging in self destructive behaviors like rich socialites already do. It'd be the end of society. Humans evolved with the mentality of constant labor being required to support ourselves, and most of us don't do particularly well in the long run when that's no longer required. </quote> You're missing the mark here. We have more leisure time now than we did 100 years ago, thanks to innovations like the washing machine and other kinds of automation, and yet we see that society has improved in life expectancy, happiness, and decreased rates of violence across the board. So it seems that a lot more leisure time is not necessary going to lead to wasting life away or indulging in destructive behaviors. But rather more time spent with family and friends and artistic pursuits, which are all noble things. I also didn't say that there wouldn't be work that needed to be done. Imo if we solve energy and food production, we're still going to need scientists, engineers, and doctors to research and investigate ways to do everything better. We'll always have work that needs to be done, a lot of it meaningful work. I wager that millions of people would gladly leave behind their shitty cubicle jobs to work planting trees and cleaning up the environment if they didn't need to worry about subsisting. I don't think people are wasting away in retirement because they stopped being a paper pusher for 40-60 hours a week. I think it's more because of a loss of purpose and meaning, where they've been conditioned to think that slaving away for the Man for a lifetime was giving them meaning. There's a lot richer meaning and purpose that we could pursue as a species than that. I also think you're confusing your subjective opinion on what it means to "waste life away" with objective truth. It's entirely possible that Person A thinks playing videogames is worth it and Person B thinks exploring nature is worth it and Person C thinks something else entirely. The point is to divorce the concept of work from the concept of needing to work. We are at the point technologically where we shouldn't need to conflate work with making a living. Isn't it time we started thinking bigger as a species?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
averagejoel 09/26/19 6:19:25 PM #35:	Squall28 posted... The Admiral posted... pls posted... If we decentralized energy production, agriculture, medicine, by making them universally accessible...then the point of work would be to become better versions of ourselves as humans, not to "earn a living" This will never happen. If people didn't have to work and were afforded infinite leisure time to "work on themselves," they'd end up wasting life away and sniping at each other like the users on this board. Or they'd just spend their days indulging and engaging in self destructive behaviors like rich socialites already do. It'd be the end of society. Humans evolved with the mentality of constant labor being required to support ourselves, and most of us don't do particularly well in the long run when that's no longer required. I do know a lot of people who couldn't stand retirement and went back to work is the distinction between "the point of work would be to become better versions of ourselves as humans" and "we would have infinite leisure time" lost on you? --- peanut butter and dick <cite>averagejoel posted [p:927989242] in Since comm... [t:78042899]...</cite> <quote>Squall28 posted...</cite> <quote>The Admiral posted...</cite> <quote>pls posted... </cite> <quote> If we decentralized energy production, agriculture, medicine, by making them universally accessible...then the point of work would be to become better versions of ourselves as humans, not to "earn a living"</quote> This will never happen. If people didn't have to work and were afforded infinite leisure time to "work on themselves," they'd end up wasting life away and sniping at each other like the users on this board. Or they'd just spend their days indulging and engaging in self destructive behaviors like rich socialites already do. It'd be the end of society. Humans evolved with the mentality of constant labor being required to support ourselves, and most of us don't do particularly well in the long run when that's no longer required. </quote> I do know a lot of people who couldn't stand retirement and went back to work</quote> is the distinction between "the point of work would be to become better versions of ourselves as humans" and "we would have infinite leisure time" lost on you?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Since communism/socialism is more accepted now, what is the answer for slackers? (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Since communism/socialism is more accepted now, what is the answer for slackers?