Current Events > "schools should teach me life skills and not Algebra"

(+) Yeah! (+)

Children often spend more time at school with their teachers/friends than they might at home. A lot of what they learn DOES come from their peers/teachers and even if it is only part of the life lessons they learn it can only help to further instil them in children.
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I always laugh at the statement why dont they teach us checks! Because writing a check and balancing a checkbook is a concept that can be learned once in about 45 seconds

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SaccharineSmile posted...

no, your parents should teach you life skills AND algebra

As someone who has worked with parents of children regularly, most parents should not be teaching their kids life skills and algebra.

Many parents out there don't know what they are doing. People assume that most parents know basic life skills like how to cook, how to manage debt/budget, etc. When in reality, most adults between ages 20 and 40 do not know how to do this. I work with many recent college grads who have gone out into the world and don't know basic things like how to cook a meal that didn't come frozen. They don't know how to check their vehicle for maintenance issues and don't know what to look for in a home mortgage. How can we expect these people to teach their kids life skills?

Life skills should be standard in any educational institution. It is only good for our society to have people that know how to maintain a household.
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Algebra is fucking useless though.
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I get a good laugh at parents refusing to teach their kids common core math, because that's not the right way to do math. Common core was after my time too, but after reading about it, it's how I do math in my head. Seems like a good way to teach kids so they understand it.
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Zanzenburger posted...

As someone who has worked with parents of children regularly, most parents should not be teaching their kids life skills and algebra.

Many parents out there don't know what they are doing. People assume that most parents know basic life skills like how to cook, how to manage debt/budget, etc. When in reality, most adults between ages 20 and 40 do not know how to do this. I work with many recent college grads who have gone out into the world and don't know basic things like how to cook a meal that didn't come frozen. They don't know how to check their vehicle for maintenance issues and don't know what to look for in a home mortgage. How can we expect these people to teach their kids life skills?

Life skills should be standard in any educational institution. It is only good for our society to have people that know how to maintain a household.

Well their lies in the problem I think; parents need to understand the responsibility of rising a child and teaching their kids as they grow up until end of high school

there is already enough pressure on schools and teachers to teach their kids let alone rise the kids teaching them basic life skill their parents/care giver should know and teach

I know so many youngish parents not reading books or teaching their kids about life and social interaction and then the have the audacity to blame schools and teacher for their child shitting upbringing and their child being too aggressive and hyper

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SaccharineSmile posted...

Zanzenburger posted...

As someone who has worked with parents of children regularly, most parents should not be teaching their kids life skills and algebra.

Many parents out there don't know what they are doing. People assume that most parents know basic life skills like how to cook, how to manage debt/budget, etc. When in reality, most adults between ages 20 and 40 do not know how to do this. I work with many recent college grads who have gone out into the world and don't know basic things like how to cook a meal that didn't come frozen. They don't know how to check their vehicle for maintenance issues and don't know what to look for in a home mortgage. How can we expect these people to teach their kids life skills?

Life skills should be standard in any educational institution. It is only good for our society to have people that know how to maintain a household.

Well their lies in the problem I think; parents need to understand the responsibility of rising a child and teaching their kids as they grow up until end of high school

there is already enough pressure on schools and teachers to teach their kids let alone rise the kids teaching them basic life skill their parents/care giver should know and teach

I know so many youngish parents not reading books or teaching their kids about life and social interaction and then the have the audacity to blame schools and teacher for their child shitting upbringing and their child being too aggressive and hyper

So you want these people who don't know a skill to teach a skill to people?

I see nothing going wrong with that.
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Destimatize vocational training.

The Catgirl Fondler posted...

Algebra is fucking useless though.

abstract thinking and problem solving skills useless ?

lol
cant believe something think like this
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Has TC addressed good parents being a privilege not everyone has yet?
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Coastal_elite posted...

Serious question, how are school subjects chosen?

Why is algebra important to a high school kid, and so is philosophy, but how to balance your check book or how to assemble your own PC isn't?

Its built around the standardized test. With some of the subjects being math, English, and science. So it's to the schools benefit to prioritize these subjects to insure as many students pass as possible, and show the illusion at least that their teaching their students well.
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Schools should teach abstract thought and critical thinking, but instead they teach us algebra and logic. I can't believe my mom and dad have to pay taxes for this.
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Who the fuck still uses checks?
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1337toothbrush posted...

Who the fuck still uses checks?

My old car insurance company billed me for several months after I canceled my policy and they finally reimbursed me... through a dinosaur paper check. Pissed me off because they drafted it right from my account so I thought they should just deposit it directly.

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Prismsblade posted...

Coastal_elite posted...

Serious question, how are school subjects chosen?

Why is algebra important to a high school kid, and so is philosophy, but how to balance your check book or how to assemble your own PC isn't?

Its built around the standardized test. With some of the subjects being math, English, and science. So it's to the schools benefit to prioritize these subjects to insure as many students pass as possible, and show the illusion at least that their teaching their students well.

Also because school funding is based on how their students score in the standardized tests. So to avoid budget cuts and having to cut their arts and music programs, the schools prioritize classes that prepare students for the test by... cutting their arts and music programs.
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Not gonna lie, algebra has helped me in many situations I never thought it would. I can't explain how, but nobody these days seems to remember the stuff.
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1337toothbrush posted...

Who the fuck still uses checks?

Until there's a tangible gain beyond the cost of a postage stamp, I see no good reason to give direct access to my bank account.

Hell, sometimes there's even a "convenience" fee for not just mailing a check.

Squall28 posted...

TurtleInFreedom posted...

Imo schools should primarily teach three things: writing, history, and philosophy. From middle school and up, I say. After that, if you're interested in any other subjects, you're free to pick and choose. But kids, humans in general, need to know their history, how to articulate themselves, and do it in a rigorous manner.

History and philosophy are useless subjects.

History is biased storytelling that won't serve you in life at all. Philosophy is elitist ponderings. If you want to really learn to think, take math and sciences. Learn real logic and concepts, and how to manipulate it in your head. It's the difference between having a problem solving mind vs one that just wanders.

Learning history and philosophy are much more fundamental than using it to getting a job. The point of a full immersion humanities course is to get a certain generation to understanding the problems of the day and how we got here. It's not just acquiring a major or specialty in those subjects, it's to get people to talk about the same things and foster grounds for a community where people are able to understand the problems and articulate solutions. It's more of a way to create a forum, with people having a basic understanding of things like political philosophy, existentialism, theology, and so on.

You have to rid of the notion that education is supposed to equip you for 'society'- it should equip you for understanding and navigating life, and how to progress society together as a collective. Society is fundamentally different from 'life'. If you were only tailored for living in a certain type of society, then you've really not acquired life skills at all- just merely a cog in a system with manipulable sentiments.

The entire point of schools originally was to teach children literacy and math, idk how we got into specialized subjects that 90% of people don't use in their everyday life

And then we have colleges, which should be the ones teaching that, insisting that you need to take shit like speech

Idk man, I feel like knowing how the author feels is really gonna help me.
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I had a life skills class in high school in the 90s. Stuff like budgeting, meal planning / grocery shopping, and yes, balancing the checkbook. It just wasn't taken seriously by most students.

Bigger picture, school is trying to teach a lot of things, and has to. We scoff at the useless subjects, then go off into a world where we have to change careers several times, and do so voluntarily a few as well. It's trying to impart the world to kids so they can try and find the place in it they want to be, and have some general knowledge to tell when someone claiming expertise is actually bullshitting.

The rest is learning how to learn. The specifics of many math disciplines will never be used, but you learn to look at problems, find what you need to solve them from excessive information, and come to an answer. Research papers are obvious: can you find relevant data on a subject you knew nothing about. Book reports about seeing the bigger picture beyond the immediate story. And sometimes it's just an object lesson in how repetition keeps shit in your brain.

It would be nice if the subjects could keep students' interest better or be more relevant to life, but teachers are only human and they need to know the subject to know if the student learned properly.
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IShall_Run_Amok posted...

Schools should teach abstract thought .

thats what they do when they teach algebra and geometry
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Squall28 posted...

Almost everyone is better off just buying an index fund for their investments.

um, if you're investing with a 30-year timeframe, sure

seems like you arent reading the posts made here

lots of people aren't investing for so long from now

those people need something other than a total stock market index fund
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Sackgurl posted...

um, if you're investing with a 30-year timeframe, sure

seems like you arent reading the posts made here

lots of people aren't investing for so long from now

those people need something other than a total stock market index fund

Investing in the index is fine in smaller time frames, and if you aren't investing for a time frame greater than 10 years, you shouldn't be investing in stocks at all. If it's money you know you NEED in a few years, put it in a CD or a bond. Don't risk it on short term "hot" stock hoping you'll get lucky.
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Squall28 posted...

if you aren't investing for a time frame greater than 10 years, you shouldn't be investing in stocks at all.

this is not right and kind of evidences the problem with your "I know everything" philosophy

the amount of high risk exposure should directly correlate with timeframe but it's not all or nothing. over time every investor should take money off the high risk table and move it to bonds as retirement approaches. investors with shorter timeframes will need to be in mostly low risk securities, but that doesn't mean 0% exposure to risk assets. it means moving down--not below--the optimized frontier of a risk return curve.

generating that curve isn't something you can do with algebra alone, but it is something an amateur can approximate with the help of a basic financial literacy class
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Haven't used algebra in 20 years. You don't need nothing beyond basic math unless you are specifically going for a career in math. I'll take life skills, please. Things like learning how to tie a tie, which dinner fork goes with what food item, how to make requisitions and process invoices all > algebra.
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DuranOfForcena posted...

regardless of any other assertions, parents should absolutely not teach algebra. that should totally and wholly under the purview of the educational system. if my parents were the ones who had to teach me algebra, i would not know algebra.

depends on whose parents, obviously
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SauI_Goodman posted...

Haven't used algebra in 20 years. You don't need nothing beyond basic math unless you are specifically going for a career in math. I'll take life skills, please. Things like learning how to tie a tie, which dinner fork goes with what food item, how to make requisitions and process invoices all > algebra.

math teaches you problem solving and abstract thinking

im pretty sure you are lying when you say you havent done any of these 2 in 20 years
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marc55 posted...

SauI_Goodman posted...

Haven't used algebra in 20 years. You don't need nothing beyond basic math unless you are specifically going for a career in math. I'll take life skills, please. Things like learning how to tie a tie, which dinner fork goes with what food item, how to make requisitions and process invoices all > algebra.

math teaches you problem solving and abstract thinking

im pretty sure you are lying when you say you havent done any of these 2 in 20 years

And this is a clear case of somebody not having reading comprehension which is why we need to emphasis the important of english classes not not math. I never stated I haven't used math in 20 years.
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SauI_Goodman posted...

marc55 posted...

SauI_Goodman posted...

Haven't used algebra in 20 years. You don't need nothing beyond basic math unless you are specifically going for a career in math. I'll take life skills, please. Things like learning how to tie a tie, which dinner fork goes with what food item, how to make requisitions and process invoices all > algebra.

math teaches you problem solving and abstract thinking

im pretty sure you are lying when you say you havent done any of these 2 in 20 years

And this is a clear case of somebody not having reading comprehension which is why we need to emphasis the important of english classes not not math. I never stated I haven't used math in 20 years.

The problem with using English to teach problem solving is that people may start to mistake rhetoric for logic.
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People ITT says algebra is useful but fail to provide one example where the average person who isn't a computer programmer, a scientist, or an algebra teacher would have to use it in their life.
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Have you ever thought "I want to buy a Switch and 3 games. A Switch costs $X and each game costs $Y. How much would I need to pay?"

If you solved the problem, you just did algebra.
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EndOfDiscOne posted...

Have you ever thought "I want to buy a Switch and 3 games. A Switch costs $X and each game costs $Y. How much would I need to pay?"

If you solved the problem, you just did algebra.

That is super basic pre-algebra stuff yes but no one can ever explain how the much more advanced algebra taught in high school is useful
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TheGreatGeno6 posted...

People ITT says algebra is useful but fail to provide one example where the average person who isn't a computer programmer, a scientist, or an algebra teacher would have to use it in their life.

I have a mortgage with $200,000 on the balance with a 4% interest rate. I am thinking of refinancing but there are associated fees. If the fee is X% what % does the new interest have to be in order for it to be worth it for me to refinance?

I have $70,000 in student loans remaining with a 6% interest rate. If I pay the minimum payment every month, how long will it take me to repay the loan (if ever).
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Coastal_elite posted...

Serious question, how are school subjects chosen?

Why is algebra important to a high school kid, and so is philosophy, but how to balance your check book or how to assemble your own PC isn't?

They are chosen based on what skills are needed for a job. Since students are assumed to not know what they want to do for a job they have to prepare them for all jobs

gbagcn posted...

Coastal_elite posted...

Serious question, how are school subjects chosen?

Why is algebra important to a high school kid, and so is philosophy, but how to balance your check book or how to assemble your own PC isn't?

They are chosen based on what skills are needed for a job. Since students are assumed to not know what they want to do for a job they have to prepare them for all jobs

Algebra is used in a very, very, VERY low number of jobs
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TheGreatGeno6 posted...

Algebra is used in a very, very, VERY low number of jobs

Basically all of them, just to varying degrees.
Very rarely will you have to remember the quadratic equation or do complex polynomials, but "solve for x" comes up at least daily without even realizing it.

SaccharineSmile posted...

its crazy how parents don't even help with homework or read books to their kids these days, YET still blame teachers for having stupid kids

What if they don't know alegbra because they didn't use it?
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I think we should be trying to shape children towards personal success regardless of who their parents are or if they even have parents

Personal finance should be a mandatory class for every high school student imo. Multiple classes honestly. I'm not putting down algebra, but let's be honest. Teaching kids the simple math to financially take care of themselves is going to be much more useful to 90% of kids than algebra
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Intro accounting and financials should be required in school.

Money management (banking) basics
Tax Return basics

As a bank manager I see this gap all the time. People are either self taught or relied on their parents way of doing things.
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Sackgurl posted...

Squall28 posted...

if you aren't investing for a time frame greater than 10 years, you shouldn't be investing in stocks at all.

this is not right and kind of evidences the problem with your "I know everything" philosophy

the amount of high risk exposure should directly correlate with timeframe but it's not all or nothing. over time every investor should take money off the high risk table and move it to bonds as retirement approaches. investors with shorter timeframes will need to be in mostly low risk securities, but that doesn't mean 0% exposure to risk assets. it means moving down--not below--the optimized frontier of a risk return curve.

generating that curve isn't something you can do with algebra alone, but it is something an amateur can approximate with the help of a basic financial literacy class

I'm speaking specifically about if someone has a big expense they know is coming up not retirement. Be it a wedding, a car, or a down payment on a home. If you're investment window is that short, you shouldn't risk losing any money that you know you would need later.

Retirement is a different issue altogether. Most 401ks already have a Target date fund that gradually switch to bonds as you get older if that's what you want. No need to do your own curve. Personally, I think that's leaving too much gains on the table, and elected to put it all into index funds. I was rewarded handsomely for it because bonds have been garbage the last several years.

The plan isn't to take money from savings. It's to live off dividend and interests that will last me indefinitely, and I'm already way past on track of that happening in retirement. No garbage curve needed.

And before you get on my case about stock pros who know more than me. Warren Buffet himself don't agree with the curve. He'd reccomend 90% in stocks. It's silly to convert a percentage of all your savings into bonds or safer investments when your required spending is a fixed amount. Not a percent.
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TheGreatGeno6 posted...

People ITT says algebra is useful but fail to provide one example where the average person who isn't a computer programmer, a scientist, or an algebra teacher would have to use it in their life.

Real life algebra is not going to look like x+y=z.

It's going to look like

Balance=income-spending1-spending2...etc Solving shows how much you can spend in stuff. Aka your budget.

Future weight=current weight+monthlyweight gain times month

Total payment=balance+balance*interest*time or something more robust for more complex loans.

All these things where you formulate things and can manipulate variables for your use.
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Squall28 posted...

TheGreatGeno6 posted...

People ITT says algebra is useful but fail to provide one example where the average person who isn't a computer programmer, a scientist, or an algebra teacher would have to use it in their life.

Real life algebra is not going to look like x+y=z.

It's going to look like

Balance=income-spending1-spending2...etc Solving shows how much you can spend in stuff. Aka your budget.

Future weight=current weight+monthlyweight gain times month

Total payment=balance+balance*interest*time or something more robust for more complex loans.

All these things where you formulate things and can manipulate variables for your use.

The problem is the school and teachers never actually tell you what it's for. If they did, more people would be willing to learn it and give a damn. They don't give you any real world problems, just random numbers that don't mean much to anyone.
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Superlinkbro posted...

The problem is the school and teachers never actually tell you what it's for. If they did, more people would be willing to learn it and give a damn. They don't give you any real world problems, just random numbers that don't mean much to anyone.

There's not a whole lot of "real world" use for polynomials outside of physics and engineering, where they become random numbers anyway.

CapnMuffin posted...

Intro accounting and financials should be required in school.

Money management (banking) basics
Tax Return basics

As a bank manager I see this gap all the time. People are either self taught or relied on their parents way of doing things.

Hot take, though not really:

Accounting and finance is hard. It will make graduation rates look worse and the also the race/income-gap in graduation rates worse.

Administrators would never go for it.
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konokonohamaru posted...

CapnMuffin posted...

Intro accounting and financials should be required in school.

Money management (banking) basics
Tax Return basics

As a bank manager I see this gap all the time. People are either self taught or relied on their parents way of doing things.

Hot take, though not really:

Accounting and finance is hard. It will make graduation rates look worse and the also the race/income-gap in graduation rates worse.

Administrators would never go for it.

They are only difficult subjects with a shitty teacher and someone who isn't putting in the effort to learn.
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1337toothbrush posted...

Who the fuck still uses checks?

I send my landlord a rent check \_()_/
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