Poll of the Day > Do trans people have a medical illness?

(+) Yeah! (+)

bulbinking posted...

Big pharma wants to promote sex change surgery/drugs no matter the cost to individual mental health.

Ah yes, of course.
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EvilMegas posted...

Ah yes, of course.

https://www-m.cnn.com/2015/07/31/health/transgender-costs-irpt/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

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EvilMegas posted...

Ah yes, of course.

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EvilMegas posted...

bulbinking posted...

Big pharma wants to promote sex change surgery/drugs no matter the cost to individual mental health.

Ah yes, of course.

god i wish that was true. it shouldnt be so difficult to access medical transition
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TheWitchMorgana posted...

EvilMegas posted...

bulbinking posted...

Big pharma wants to promote sex change surgery/drugs no matter the cost to individual mental health.

Ah yes, of course.

god i wish that was true. it shouldnt be so difficult to access medical transition

Gonna have to disagree there considering the extremely high percentage that transition and are either still depressed/suicidal or even moreso. There should definitely be a high bar for doing that. It's not something that any doctor with a real sense of morality should take lightly

Also, I'm surprised this topic is still up considering even mentioning/questioning this is apparently hyper offensive/hatespeech

OhhhJa posted...

TheWitchMorgana posted...

EvilMegas posted...

bulbinking posted...

Big pharma wants to promote sex change surgery/drugs no matter the cost to individual mental health.

Ah yes, of course.

god i wish that was true. it shouldnt be so difficult to access medical transition

Gonna have to disagree there considering the extremely high percentage that transition and are either still depressed/suicidal or even moreso. There should definitely be a high bar for doing that. It's not something that any doctor with a real sense of morality should take lightly

that stat is a myth pls do your research before you spout off
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OhhhJa posted...

Also, I'm surprised this topic is still up considering even mentioning/questioning this is apparently hyper offensive/hatespeech

People with mental disorders are sensitive to criticisms? Color me shocked!

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TheWitchMorgana posted...

OhhhJa posted...

TheWitchMorgana posted...

EvilMegas posted...

bulbinking posted...

Big pharma wants to promote sex change surgery/drugs no matter the cost to individual mental health.

Ah yes, of course.

god i wish that was true. it shouldnt be so difficult to access medical transition

Gonna have to disagree there considering the extremely high percentage that transition and are either still depressed/suicidal or even moreso. There should definitely be a high bar for doing that. It's not something that any doctor with a real sense of morality should take lightly

that stat is a myth pls do your research before you spout off

There are literally thousands of sources that talk about this. Go ahead and post your buzzfeed source saying it's a myth though

go ahead and post your chemtrailwars.net source please
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I've seen more instances of malpractice in what he said so no you're wrong
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Damn! I swear I must be missing a whole bizarre offshoot sub-thread here, because the posts I can see make no sense whatsoever! I'm missing at least 10 just from this page 0_o;
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Trialia posted...

Damn! I swear I must be missing a whole bizarre offshoot sub-thread here, because the posts I can see make no sense whatsoever! I'm missing at least 10 just from this page 0_o;

Stop it.
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bulbinking posted...

Big pharma wants to promote sex change surgery/drugs no matter the cost to individual mental health.

and i, would make a beautiful woman, ok?
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I wouldn't overthink it if it doesn't affect you directly. All you need to know is that the most effective way to alleviate gender dysphoria has been proven to be gender confirmation treatment, be that hormones, surgery, whatever.

Whether or not it constitutes a mental illness is irrelevant but... well, I think a lot of people here could stand to do some reading on treatment of mental illnesses, particularly people who have delusions, hallucinations, or some form of cognitive decline, because even if gender dysphoria is a mental illness... that doesn't mean what I think a lot of people assume it means. I'm just going to use dementia as an example because that's what I have the most experience with.

It used to be, some decades ago, that people in the care industry were supposed to correct any false beliefs or confusion that a person suffering from dementia expressed. The idea was to try and ground them in reality. Doesn't sound bad in theory, right? In practice, this means that when a man with cognitive decline asked where his wife was, you had to tell him that she was dead, inflicting a completely unnecessary grieving process upon him... and then have it happen again an hour later, and again, and again. It should go without saying that this wasn't actually helpful. Another example would be that of a woman whose mental state had regressed to the equivalent of a small child. When she asked for the caretakers to play with her, they would try to re-orient her by informing her that she was an adult. The end result was that they were essentially emotionally neglecting a child in their care.

I think it should go without saying that such treatment of people could be considered nothing short of torture. It did nothing but cause completely unnecessary anguish and stress in people, and while that form of "treatment" was framed as being a way of trying to prevent mental decline... in truth, it was done because people cared more about how they wanted the patients to be than they did about figuring out what the healthiest treatment was.

Even in the case of mental illness, it is NOT always in the interest of the person in question to be treated in a way that tries to force them to conform. If you can't divorce your own idea of how someone else should live their life from what is actually medically best for them, then your opinions on the subject of the treatment of any given mental illness is virtually worthless. Today, when an old man asks you where his wife is, you tell him she went to the store, or a friend's house, or whatever. You meet them where they are, because that is what is healthiest for them, and you don't have to like the fact that this is the best way of handling that illness to acknowledge it.

It has been proven that gay conversion therapy does more harm than good. It has been proven that gender confirmation treatment is the most effective way to treat gender dysphoria. It has been proven that meeting people with cognitive decline where they are rather than where you want them to be is healthier and kinder to them. Someday we may find some alternate option of treating gender dysphoria, but until then, this is the best treatment we have.
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Gaawa_chan posted...

I wouldn't overthink it if it doesn't affect you directly. All you need to know is that the most effective way to alleviate gender dysphoria has been proven to be gender confirmation treatment, be that hormones, surgery, whatever.
(...)
It used to be, some decades ago, that people in the care industry were supposed to correct any false beliefs or confusion that a person suffering from dementia expressed. The idea was to try and ground them in reality. Doesn't sound bad in theory, right? In practice, this means that when a man with cognitive decline asked where his wife was, you had to tell him that she was dead, inflicting a completely unnecessary grieving process upon him... and then have it happen again an hour later, and again, and again. It should go without saying that this wasn't actually helpful.
(...)
I think it should go without saying that such treatment of people could be considered nothing short of torture. It did nothing but cause completely unnecessary anguish and stress in people, and while that form of "treatment" was framed as being a way of trying to prevent mental decline... in truth, it was done because people cared more about how they wanted the patients to be than they did about figuring out what the healthiest treatment was.

Even in the case of mental illness, it is NOT always in the interest of the person in question to be treated in a way that tries to force them to conform.
(...)
It has been proven that gay conversion therapy does more harm than good. It has been proven that gender confirmation treatment is the most effective way to treat gender dysphoria. It has been proven that meeting people with cognitive decline where they are rather than where you want them to be is healthier and kinder to them. Someday we may find some alternate option of treating gender dysphoria, but until then, this is the best treatment we have.

Thanks for the insightful response. I really appreciate that.
And I'm not actually requiring you to cite the sources, just being pedantic and telling you so you keep it in mind to do so in future times, but, yeah. Wikipedia kinda trained me to see it this way - it's quality practice. If people did it all the time, more people would learn.
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Quick reminder that the issue with transgenderism isn't the treatment, it's the social pressure associated with it.

People don't have an issue with people who are suicidal, but if they have to watch their words to avoid them making an attempt, it's draining. Similarly, people don't have an issue with transgender people existing, the issue is having to skirt around the issue or be forced to say orange is blue.
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As a nurse, yes I can confirm that is how we handle dementia patients. Reminding a man that his wife is dead only for it to inevitably be forgotten again is not going to help the patient's mental state. It will just cause grief. There is no positive side to doing it. It's a fruitless, painful cycle. There is no cure for dementia.

One of my best friends is transgender. He is a man who identifies mentally as a woman. He has been suicidal in the past. I do not understand the irrational hate and discrimination they receive for the life of me. People who deserve hate are people who wrong others. Not people like my friend who fyi is a wonderful person through and through. Just feels like he should have been born a woman. The people who hate -- they're the real problem. A large part of the stress is fear of rejection from friends, family, and the rest of society. I'd say that's a pretty massive factor. Once that is gone, I believe trans people would have a lot easier time being happy with just being themselves.

I don't have any statistics, but put yourself in their shoes. It's not hard to imagine. To say it's a medical condition that needs to be corrected, that shouldn't be the focus. Imo. The focus should be on eliminating hate and discrimination. That's what's unhealthy.
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SilverClock posted...

I do not understand the irrational hate and discrimination they receive for the life of me. People who deserve hate are people who wrong others.

When rape by uninformed consent is strongly implied, and outright promoted in many prominent transgender groups, there's reason to believe they may do wrong.

I mean, a lot of cases of murders of transgender people comes from men being raped by deception and flipping the fuck out. This is not unreasonable as it's recognised in UK law as a basis for leniency on a murder charge.

People don't like to be told what they understand is false, they despise being tricked and they are suspicious of anything out of the ordinary; this means transgenders will always get hostility somewhere.

I think transgenderism will never be fully accepted as it suggests greenlighting rape by deception, a major concern with the perception of them.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

When rape by uninformed consent is strongly implied, and outright promoted in many prominent transgender groups, there's reason to believe they may do wrong.

Well that's fucked up. Rape by uninformed consent should of course be stopped. Blanket discrimination is still wrong, but I understand it a bit better. Thank you for clarifying, I don't know why I didn't think of that.
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SilverClock posted...

As a nurse, yes I can confirm that is how we handle dementia patients. Reminding a man that his wife is dead only for it to inevitably be forgotten again (...) will just cause grief. (...) It's a fruitless, painful cycle. There is no cure for dementia.

One of my best friends is transgender. He is a man who identifies mentally as a woman. He has been suicidal in the past. I do not understand the irrational hate and discrimination they receive for the life of me. People who deserve hate are people who wrong others. Not people like my friend who fyi is a wonderful person through and through. Just feels like he should have been born a woman. The people who hate -- they're the real problem. A large part of the stress is fear of rejection from friends, family, and the rest of society. I'd say that's a pretty massive factor. Once that is gone, I believe trans people would have a lot easier time being happy with just being themselves.

I don't have any statistics, but put yourself in their shoes. It's not hard to imagine. To say it's a medical condition that needs to be corrected, that shouldn't be the focus. Imo. The focus should be on eliminating hate and discrimination. That's what's unhealthy.

Oh, yeah. I agree those are the kind of people that earned the hate they receive. I'm more trying to understand where these people come from, especially Because I'm trying to minimize disparity in how I view the world.
It's anecdotal evidence, but... research is also anecdotal evidence, so, I appreciate your reply.
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Unknow0059 posted...

I'm trying to minimize disparity in how I view the world.

That's respectable. I wasn't paying much attention to it all until my friend came out to me.

I'm more trying to understand where these people come from, especially.

Like, nature vs nurture?
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