Current Events > Why do you support socialism?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Only sincere answers please. No trolling or flaming.
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I don't, really, I've never been to a political organizing event, and the closest to that I have experienced is nonprofit stuff.

I like socialist and marxist philosophy, particularly because of it's connection to idealism, something something about grounding ideologies as spiritual entities, as Hegel would have it.

edit: I think this answer is true of most ideological socialists, people who organize and etc usually conform to liberal capitalist principles.

2nd edit: the second line in my post is what i think is true of socialists, i'm not trying to say they don't go to organizing events.
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I dont think anyone would after they've experienced it...

I like my pets too much to support socialism. They're family, not food.

It's usually a combination of economic illiteracy and conflating bad character traits with an economic system.

I only support voluntary forms of socialism. Because it's the WD-40 to the wheels of voluntary capitalism.
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There are some good parts of socialism that absolutely should be adopted by the west
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TheMikh posted...

I only support voluntary forms of socialism. Because it's the WD-40 to the wheels of voluntary capitalism.

socialism is inherently more democratic than capitalism
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averagejoel posted...

socialism is inherently more democratic than capitalism

History shows us that this is false

averagejoel posted...

socialism is inherently more democratic than capitalism

lol

I support anti-capitalism more than socialism.
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Much like war, socialism is delightful to those who have not experienced it.

Rika_Furude posted...

There are some good parts of socialism that absolutely should be adopted by the west

Such as?
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Solid Snake07 posted...

Rika_Furude posted...

There are some good parts of socialism that absolutely should be adopted by the west

Such as?

The benefits of not running your country according to the desires of a few dumbass oligarchs should be pretty obvious. Private prisons? Nope. Copyright law favoring corporations? Nah. Laws favoring unions and workers, better housing, better streets and roads for the sake of citizens, better water and air, and just generally fixing all the problems caused by meddling profiteers are all socialist ideas that would do the world good.
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averagejoel posted...

TheMikh posted...

I only support voluntary forms of socialism. Because it's the WD-40 to the wheels of voluntary capitalism.

socialism is inherently more democratic than capitalism

He said voluntary, not democratic.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3c8Gkm8VSLE" data-time="

IShall_Run_Amok posted...

Solid Snake07 posted...

Rika_Furude posted...

There are some good parts of socialism that absolutely should be adopted by the west

Such as?

The benefits of not running your country according to the desires of a few dumbass oligarchs should be pretty obvious. Private prisons? Nope. Copyright law favoring corporations? Nah. Laws favoring unions and workers, better housing, better streets and roads for the sake of citizens, better water and air, and just generally fixing all the problems caused by meddling profiteers are all socialist ideas that would do the world good.

None of that is socialism, you're just saying crony capitalism sucks. Which is like saying water is wet
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Because socialism is not all or nothing

Do I support a fully socialist government? Of course not. Do I support a fully socialist healthcare system? You can bet your dong I do
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I don't

It doesn't matter what a political system is called, there will invariably be people in a position of power abusing their power for selfish ends.
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I support socialism but more so anarchism.

But I'm not very hopeful that capitalism isn't going to destroy all of us while it has the chance.
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Timohtep posted...

Because socialism is not all or nothing

Do I support a fully socialist government? Of course not. Do I support a fully socialist healthcare system? You can bet your dong I do

Why do you support socialist healthcare?

a-c-a-b posted...

I support socialism but more so anarchism.

But I'm not very hopeful that capitalism isn't going to destroy all of us while it has the chance.

Why do you support anarchism?
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coh posted...

Much like war, socialism is delightful to those who have not experienced it.

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A lot of people like being told that, people with more stuff than you are evil! Lets take their stuff because they owe you!
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It inspires funny board games
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What's interesting to me is that people in general are very against government owning the means of production but don't seem to really mind when the means of production own the government, which is the case in the US today where lobbyists are literally writing the laws. I don't see a demonstrable difference in government owning business vs. business owning government. It just seems like the all-or-nothing laissez faire types will argue against the evils of socialism until they're blue in the face while not realizing that unfettered capitalism produces the exact same results.

Neither socialism nor capitalism are great policies to go whole hog on, you need a nice little balance of capitalism with safety nets and regulation or your capitalist utopia is going to become an oligarchy just like all of the communist countries you complain about.

tennisdude818 posted...

A lot of people like being told that, people with more stuff than you are evil! Lets take their stuff because they owe you!

Because they have a mistaken notion that wealth is a finite thing
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Why anyone would support a meme ideology is a mystery to me. It's not a coincidence that the countries with the highest standards of living all have a capitalist economy.
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not really

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I don't even know what socialism is.
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Rexdragon125 posted...

What's interesting to me is that people in general are very against government owning the means of production but don't seem to really mind when the means of production own the government, which is the case in the US today where lobbyists are literally writing the laws. I don't see a demonstrable difference in government owning business vs. business owning government. It just seems like the all-or-nothing laissez faire types will argue against the evils of socialism until they're blue in the face while not realizing that unfettered capitalism produces the exact same results.

Neither socialism nor capitalism are great policies to go whole hog on, you need a nice little balance of capitalism with safety nets and regulation or your capitalist utopia is going to become an oligarchy just like all of the communist countries you complain about.

Well said.
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Solid Snake07 posted...

tennisdude818 posted...

A lot of people like being told that, people with more stuff than you are evil! Lets take their stuff because they owe you!

Because they have a mistaken notion that wealth is a finite thing

Thats a failure of government schooling.
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tennisdude818 posted...

Solid Snake07 posted...

tennisdude818 posted...

A lot of people like being told that, people with more stuff than you are evil! Lets take their stuff because they owe you!

Because they have a mistaken notion that wealth is a finite thing

Thats a failure of government schooling.

This is a cute straw man yall have concocted, btw.
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Rexdragon125 posted...

What's interesting to me is that people in general are very against government owning the means of production but don't seem to really mind when the means of production own the government, which is the case in the US today where lobbyists are literally writing the laws.

Conservatives dont appear to talk about this issue very much. Libertarians talk about it all the time and use it as an argument for small government. Big government is a strong ally of big business. The Federal Reserve System enriches Wall Street, for example.

Leftists seem ok with big government as long as its democratic, but coercion doesnt suddenly become virtuous because 51% of people in a given area like it. Every gang rape is a democratic success story.
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https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2017/03/earthrx-the-irish-potato-famine-was-caused-by-capi.html

Relevant

Rexdragon125 posted...

https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2017/03/earthrx-the-irish-potato-famine-was-caused-by-capi.html

Relevant

Property Taxes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland%29

Landlords were responsible for paying the rates of every tenant whose yearly rent was 4 or less. Landlords whose land was crowded with poorer tenants were now faced with large bills. Many began clearing the poor tenants from their small plots, and letting the land in larger plots for over 4 which then reduced their debts. In 1846, there had been some clearances, but the great mass of evictions came in 1847.

I had always leaned toward anti-capitalism because I didn't think the capitalist system was particularly fair to workers, especially global corporate capitalism to those in developing countries. But I think the first time I really and truly got bit by the socialist bug was when I was in my early 20's, working at a call center. We did inbound calls, and the manager of the center accidentally let slip to me how much he personally got paid (by the company we were contracted to do customer service for) for every minute each employee was available, either taking calls or waiting for a call to come in. Doing the math and realizing how much money my boss was making from my labor vs how much he was paying me for it was some real sticker shock.

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MrToothHasYou posted...

Doing the math and realizing how much money my boss was making from my labor vs how much he was paying me for it was some real sticker shock.

So, of course, you started your own call center collective, right?

Solid Snake07 posted...

IShall_Run_Amok posted...

Solid Snake07 posted...

Rika_Furude posted...

There are some good parts of socialism that absolutely should be adopted by the west

Such as?

The benefits of not running your country according to the desires of a few dumbass oligarchs should be pretty obvious. Private prisons? Nope. Copyright law favoring corporations? Nah. Laws favoring unions and workers, better housing, better streets and roads for the sake of citizens, better water and air, and just generally fixing all the problems caused by meddling profiteers are all socialist ideas that would do the world good.

None of that is socialism, you're just saying crony capitalism sucks. Which is like saying water is wet

Is there non-crony capitalism out there?
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Antifar posted...

Is there non-crony capitalism out there?

Every business that isn't big enough to buy a senator, yet.

Questionmarktarius posted...

So, of course, you started your own call center collective, right?

Ha, no. Like I said that was just my first real shot in the arm of firsthand class consciousness. Obviously I had no idea about how to go about organizing, but that is more or less the naturally occurring agitprop that set me on the path, so to speak.

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technically I don't support jack shit, not even myself

biggernails posted...

technically I don't support jack shit, not even myself

amen, brudda
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Shablagoo posted...

tennisdude818 posted...

Solid Snake07 posted...

tennisdude818 posted...

A lot of people like being told that, people with more stuff than you are evil! Lets take their stuff because they owe you!

Because they have a mistaken notion that wealth is a finite thing

Thats a failure of government schooling.

This is a cute straw man yall have concocted, btw.

Good thing you were here to add something worthwhile to the conversation
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Antifar posted...

there non-crony capitalism out there?

Corruption is inevitable. But letting a free and fair market sort it out is much more effective than handing the keys over to politicians who will inevitably end up corrupting the entire economy
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Solid Snake07 posted...

IShall_Run_Amok posted...

Solid Snake07 posted...

Rika_Furude posted...

There are some good parts of socialism that absolutely should be adopted by the west

Such as?

The benefits of not running your country according to the desires of a few dumbass oligarchs should be pretty obvious. Private prisons? Nope. Copyright law favoring corporations? Nah. Laws favoring unions and workers, better housing, better streets and roads for the sake of citizens, better water and air, and just generally fixing all the problems caused by meddling profiteers are all socialist ideas that would do the world good.

None of that is socialism, you're just saying crony capitalism sucks. Which is like saying water is wet

They are more socialism then capitalism, for sure, and they are far more present in countries concerned with social well being then in capitalist driven countries. I would also argue that the only good capitalism, or the only thing closest to good capitalism, has always been capitalism where the will and needs of the people has behaved as close as possible to a garotte around the throat of profit margins without outright strangling them. Free markets just don't work; it always leads to cronyism.
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IShall_Run_Amok posted...

Solid Snake07 posted...

IShall_Run_Amok posted...

Solid Snake07 posted...

Rika_Furude posted...

There are some good parts of socialism that absolutely should be adopted by the west

Such as?

The benefits of not running your country according to the desires of a few dumbass oligarchs should be pretty obvious. Private prisons? Nope. Copyright law favoring corporations? Nah. Laws favoring unions and workers, better housing, better streets and roads for the sake of citizens, better water and air, and just generally fixing all the problems caused by meddling profiteers are all socialist ideas that would do the world good.

None of that is socialism, you're just saying crony capitalism sucks. Which is like saying water is wet

They are more socialism then capitalism, for sure, and they are far more present in countries concerned with social well being then in capitalist driven countries. I would also argue that the only good capitalism, or the only thing closest to good capitalism, has always been capitalism where the will and needs of the people has behaved as close as possible to a garotte around the throat of profit margins without outright strangling them. Free markets just don't work; it always leads to cronyism.

"Cronyism" and free markets are the antithesis of each other so you're kind of talking nonsense right now
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Solid Snake07 posted...

"Cronyism" and free markets are the antithesis of each other so you're kind of talking nonsense right now

I clearly disagree.
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