Current Events > Ignorant person: "Im tired of the politics in videogames nowadays!"

(+) Yeah! (+)

StealthRock posted...

Doom_Art posted...

coh posted...

I think people just have a problem with SJW nonsense in games, not political themes as a whole.

SJW nonsense such as women/gay/trans people existing?

Yep
They exist. So lets force them into everything at every opportunity

Can you list 10 games that have trans people in them?

Can you list 10 games that aren't from Bioware that have gay people in them?
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Im not gonna pretend that some implementation of political messages/ideological agendas arent cheesy and forced.

But I feel like the reaction to these is disproportionate to the offense. Like, the only truly bad SJW nonsense that could be argued inedefensible is Assassins Creed literally censoring real life historical artifacts. Hiding behind a disclaimer doesnt make it any less stupid.

Everything else is like, who cares? Mortal Kombat has always been the cheesy B-movie of video games. World War 2 likely didnt have technology locked behind kill streaks. Its not real. Lol.
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Darmik posted...

So a woman in a world war 2 game is political but a James Bond inspired game set in the 60's with a lead woman secret agent is not?

Oh my bad, I was actually mixing up the promo art for BF1 and V. It's BFV that has the mechanical arm girl. BF1 has promo art featuring a black infantrywoman, that is pretty obviously pandering, women in WWI didn't even serve in infantry roles, according to wikipedia.

Darmik posted...

Of course people who are victims of that regime will fight more than the people who benefit or are left alone. Like that's barely even a political stance as much as an observation. How do you think Nazis gain power exactly?

That's not at all a point that she made though. She didn't say whites are left alone, and neither do the games themselves from what I've played. There's actually a scene in the first game where that Gestapo chick comments on how Aryan your guy looks, indicating that the nazis don't tolerate whites that aren't aryan, either. Also the nazis gained power militarily, their tech was way ahead of the allies

I do agree that people who take issue with this shit are thin-skinned, all I'm saying is that there's a reason this stuff is being criticized. It's the way political stuff is handled (as well as the topics, i.e. identity politics), not just ANY presence of political commentary. It's not hard to see why the cover man for a game set in WWI being a bald black woman might raise eyebrows for some, the immediate assumption when something is presented that way is that its developers were checking off boxes for "minority representation" during development for woke points to make it seem like they're hip or whatever, but it'll undeniably be looked back on as a strange move
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AlisLandale posted...

But I feel like the reaction to these is disproportionate to the offense.

I agree 200%, most of it isn't obnoxious at all. The real menace is the increasing censorship of anime tiddies, FUCK Sony and FUCK your marker
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Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

Oh my bad, I was actually mixing up the promo art for BF1 and V. It's BFV that has the mechanical arm girl. BF1 has promo art featuring a black infantrywoman, that is pretty obviously pandering, women in WWI didn't even serve in infantry roles, according to wikipedia.

So that's pandering but choosing to make a female James Bond game isn't?
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Darmik posted...

Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

Oh my bad, I was actually mixing up the promo art for BF1 and V. It's BFV that has the mechanical arm girl. BF1 has promo art featuring a black infantrywoman, that is pretty obviously pandering, women in WWI didn't even serve in infantry roles, according to wikipedia.

So that's pandering but choosing to make a female James Bond game isn't?

Spies are like...the profession of choice for women in war times. "Female spy" is a trope at this point. Poor comparison
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Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

Darmik posted...

Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

Oh my bad, I was actually mixing up the promo art for BF1 and V. It's BFV that has the mechanical arm girl. BF1 has promo art featuring a black infantrywoman, that is pretty obviously pandering, women in WWI didn't even serve in infantry roles, according to wikipedia.

So that's pandering but choosing to make a female James Bond game isn't?

Spies are like...the profession of choice for women in war times. "Female spy" is a trope at this point. Poor comparison

It's an FPS game where you shoot loads of dudes.

Are you seriously going to pretend that people wouldn't make the same shitty comments about games like No One Lives Forever or Perfect Dark in 2019?

There's literally people melting down over a female agent inheriting the 007 codename this year.

Oh yeah and go look up the box art for Medal of Honor Underground and try to act like that's different too.
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Darmik posted...

It's an FPS game where you shoot loads of dudes.

Are you seriously going to pretend that people wouldn't make the same shitty comments about games like No One Lives Forever or Perfect Dark in 2019?

There's literally people melting down over a female agent inheriting the 007 codename this year.

There's no need to pretend. Ion Fury, prior to the devs caving in to criticism, had an overwhelmingly positive rating on Steam. It has had a female protag this whole time.

It now sits at mostly positive, or mixed if going by recent reviews. Now, do you think that people suddenly discovered they were playing as a woman the whole time? Or do you think it was the other thing that did it?
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Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

Darmik posted...

It's an FPS game where you shoot loads of dudes.

Are you seriously going to pretend that people wouldn't make the same shitty comments about games like No One Lives Forever or Perfect Dark in 2019?

There's literally people melting down over a female agent inheriting the 007 codename this year.

There's no need to pretend. Ion Fury, prior to the devs caving in to criticism, had an overwhelmingly positive rating on Steam. It has had a female protag this whole time.

It now sits at mostly positive, or mixed if going by recent reviews. Now, do you think that people suddenly discovered they were playing as a woman the whole time? Or do you think it was the other thing that did it?

The difference is that it's from an indie developer that flew under the radar until recently.

If it was an EA or Activision you'd get the typical pandering whining.

These people latch onto things people are talking about and get offended over marketing. Games like Ion Fury do not have big marketing campaigns. Battlefront V, Wolfenstein 2 and Far Cry 5 all do.

The complaints made by these people are not consistent and are nonsense. It's more about fighting the fight under the incorrect assumption that they're not being catered to anymore by major developers and games. As you can see pointed out by comments in this topic.
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Darmik posted...

There's literally people melting down over a female agent inheriting the 007 codename this year.

Oh yeah and go look up the box art for Medal of Honor Underground and try to act like that's different too.

Oof, that's gonna flop hard. I don't really care about 007 though, I see no issue with the protag being a woman. It's a dumb move that'll be seen as pandering though, leading to aforementioned flop. The whiners are dumb imo

MoHU actually is different because that takes place during WWII from what I gather
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Darmik posted...

Ridiculous that games like No One Lives Forever and Perfect Dark would be seen as pandering now.

And not just, y'know, games trying to stand out with a unique image and character. Nah that makes too much sense. It's a personal attack on white men.

Perfect Dark never really played to 'I'm a woman and better than man!' nor did it really 'sell' the protagonist as 'standing up for minority representation.' She did her job, and it didn't matter that she was a woman.
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MaverickXeo posted...

Darmik posted...

Ridiculous that games like No One Lives Forever and Perfect Dark would be seen as pandering now.

And not just, y'know, games trying to stand out with a unique image and character. Nah that makes too much sense. It's a personal attack on white men.

Perfect Dark never really played to 'I'm a woman and better than man!' nor did it really 'sell' the protagonist as 'standing up for minority representation.' She did her job, and it didn't matter that she was a woman.

What does that even mean

What games are you even talking about
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If Bond flops it wont be because of the woman. And this is why the reactions are so silly.

A woman has been announced to have been given the 007 number in the movie following Bonds retirement.

Bond himself is still the protagonist and is being called in from retirement for a mission.

Youd think most of the self-proclaimed nerds would be incredibly familiar with this trope by now to know that the movie will most likely end the same way Reign of the Supermen, Batman Knightfall, and Wonder Womans Artermis arc all ended.

With the main character taking their name/title back and proving theyre the one true character worthy of carrying that name
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Darmik posted...

MaverickXeo posted...

Darmik posted...

Ridiculous that games like No One Lives Forever and Perfect Dark would be seen as pandering now.

And not just, y'know, games trying to stand out with a unique image and character. Nah that makes too much sense. It's a personal attack on white men.

Perfect Dark never really played to 'I'm a woman and better than man!' nor did it really 'sell' the protagonist as 'standing up for minority representation.' She did her job, and it didn't matter that she was a woman.

What does that even mean

What games are you even talking about

There have been a few media professionals who push for this sort of thing. Look at Brie Larson's comments, or the cast of the Ghostbusters reboot.

The other thing to look at is that Perfect dark was not 'remade' to have a woman star in it... it was an original game with an original protagonist. Stuff like the 007 movie with a female taking the code name is just a lazy attempt at pandering to the female audience. We should be pushing for MORE original characters who are not simple 'pallet swaps.'
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And you will find out that the only person man enough to do a job like this...is a woman

- Perfect Dark Commercial
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Darmik posted...

And you will find out that the only person man enough to do a job like this...is a woman

- Perfect Dark Commercial

Fair point, but in game there are no mentions of her being a woman or 'girl power,' is there? It's been a while since I've played... I just remember Elvis the alien being awesome!
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MaverickXeo posted...

There have been a few media professionals who push for this sort of thing. Look at Brie Larson's comments, or the cast of the Ghostbusters reboot.

So you're not even talking about games?

MaverickXeo posted...

Fair point, but in game there are no mentions of her being a woman or 'girl power,' is there? It's been a while since I've played... I just remember Elvis the alien being awesome!

I don't remember but I don't know which games even have this at all.
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Darmik posted...

The difference is that it's from an indie developer that flew under the radar until recently.

If it was an EA or Activision you'd get the typical pandering whining.

I don't believe that's true, it's been on the radar for a while (it was in Early Access for quite a while), the shitstorm that followed them caving shows that people are sensitive to outside political forces affecting their games regardless of marketing. And I think if EA made an oldschool run and gun shooter of this quality people would be pumped regardless of the main character.

Darmik posted...

These people latch onto things people are talking about and get offended over marketing.

I mean it might be a factor, because it's an optics thing like I said. Easier to notice woke shit in marketing since it's more compact than a video game

Darmik posted...

It's more about fighting the fight under the incorrect assumption that they're not being catered to anymore by major developers and games.

But they have a point. Any catering done for one group takes away from what could be done for another. Products have demographics. If there isn't an attempt being made to alter who the audience is that plays the games, why is the catering/pandering being done? These people are annoyed because it looks like the games are being designed to suit an audience that most likely wouldn't play the games no matter what because they're just not their cup of tea, fundamentally. It's worrying to me too in a way, because if some franchise that I loved suddenly got new management that wanted woke shit inserted in and sales suffered due to it, it might result in said franchise ending. Get woke go broke is a thing
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Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

But they have a point. Any catering done for one group takes away from what could be done for another.

Like what?

What would have changed if BFV had a guy on the cover?

Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

If there isn't an attempt being made to alter who the audience is that plays the games, why is the catering/pandering being done?

Alter or expand?

It depends on what game you're talking about.

Like guys like you don't even consider how long developers have been stuck in a bubble and being told not to make any risks. God damn Naughty Dog had to fight Sony to get Ellie on the front of The Last of Us.

Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

These people are annoyed because it looks like the games are being designed to suit an audience that most likely wouldn't play the games no matter what because they're just not their cup of tea, fundamentally.

And what games are those?

Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

It's worrying to me too in a way, because if some franchise that I loved suddenly got new management that wanted woke shit inserted in and sales suffered due to it, it might result in said franchise ending. Get woke go broke is a thing

But the opposite happens way more often than this. More often games are shifted to appeal to the COD audience. Dead Rising, Resident Evil, Hitman, Splinter Cell etc.

Like again what is this scary woke shit ruining game sales? Apparently a woman on a Battlefront cover and a conversation in Wolfenstein 2 is all you've come up with.

These are both companies who have already put in 'woke shit' long before those two games.
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_BIueMonk posted...

Sorry but how the hell is

Metal gear solid

Some sort of political statement?

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Darmik posted...

But the opposite happens way more often than this. More often games are shifted to appeal to the COD audience. Dead Rising, Resident Evil, Hitman, Splinter Cell etc.

That's not the opposite though, that's a different type of the same thing, and it proves my point. The games in those franchises that got shat on relentlessly and suffered sales-wise did so because they went after an audience that isn't interested in that type of game no matter what. Their original audience is alienated and in exchange, they gain...*drum roll*...nothing at all.

Darmik posted...

Like what?

What would have changed if BFV had a guy on the cover?

Well it probably would have sold better, for one. It sold worse than BF1 and 3. As you yourself acknowledge a little later here with TLoU2, companies understand that putting a female on the cover of games (ones in genres men mostly play, at least) is a no-no unless maybe she's sexed up.

Darmik posted...

And what games are those?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_and_video_games#Genre_preferences

FPS games' audiences consist of just 7% females according to this (according to Quantic Foundry). Other typical AAA "core" genres range from like 26% and lower. You can argue that the divide is just due to catering to males but I really doubt that women mind having to play as a burly, swearing dude who punches things THAT much. I seriously doubt that accounts for the massive differences.
Darmik posted...

Alter or expand?

It depends on what game you're talking about.

That's part of it but it also depends on HOW it's done. If you just include females on the cover then that's better than just having -a- girl. Otherwise yeah you're probably gonna be sending a message that the game is for girls, to people who don't care about such a game to begin with. Some games can get away with that, like Overwatch (Tracer is the only char. on the cover) but RIP if you try that shit with something that was seen as masculine like Gears. The correct way is to have an ensemble on the cover of males and females, THAT is how you signal that the game is for everyone

I chopped your post up out of order somehow, whatever
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Garioshi posted...

To be fair Battlefield 5's issue was that they were literally making up and manipulating historical accuracy in their campaign (like how the Special Boat Service was a British Suicide Squad), when it's fucking WW2 and there's plenty of untouched actual content to draw from
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Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

Well it probably would have sold better, for one. It sold worse than BF1 and 3. As you yourself acknowledge a little later here with TLoU2, companies understand that putting a female on the cover of games (ones in genres men mostly play, at least) is a no-no unless maybe she's sexed up.

Ugh this is so damn cynical I don't know what to say.

Like I hope you're wrong because I hope gamers aren't pathetic enough to not buy a good game because a woman is on the cover.

Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

RIP if you try that shit with something that was seen as masculine like Gears.

Look up Gears 5

Crazy that the Gears fanbase is actually more progressive somehow
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Darmik posted...

Ugh this is so damn cynical I don't know what to say.

Like I hope you're wrong because I hope gamers aren't pathetic enough to not buy a good game because a woman is on the cover.

Well yeah I don't want it to be the case either, I don't buy physical games so cover art doesn't really apply to me but I don't give a damn about a girl featuring prominently on the cover. I bought Beyond Good & Evil proudly as a kid. I do know that some kids absolutely would not do so and it's probably not a small percentage of boys. It's probably getting better though.

It's not that they hate women or whatever, it's just that it sort of sends a signal, in a way, that the game is geared towards girls. Some amount of boys probably won't bother to pick it up and look at the back if it doesn't initially attract them

Darmik posted...

Look up Gears 5

Crazy that the Gears fanbase is actually more progressive somehow

That's not a terrible idea for a cover since it features a bunch of varying characters but the female character probably features too prominently for its own good tbh. The European cover is better, like usual
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Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

FPS games' audiences consist of just 7% females according to this (according to Quantic Foundry). Other typical AAA "core" genres range from like 26% and lower. You can argue that the divide is just due to catering to males but I really doubt that women mind having to play as a burly, swearing dude who punches things THAT much. I seriously doubt that accounts for the massive differences.

most games were fundamentally designed with men in mind. do you think that might have had an effect on who the games appeal to?
some of those games were extremely influential to their respective genres. do you think that might have had an effect on who those genres cater to?
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nemu posted...

It's one of these topics where it's impossible to have an actual discussion because everyone is speaking from such radically different definitions that you may as well be trying to argue by yelling across a ten mile chasm.

Like boiling down the stupidity of a disabled female frontline trooper in World War 1 as 'you just hate women!'
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AlecSkorpio posted...

I'm honestly still surprised most have not seemed to figure out that this is all manufactured bullshit by gaming journalists and gaming journalist wannabes in a bid to feel important/seem relevant.

95% of gamers don't give a fuck about this shit.

ding ding ding
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darkjedilink posted...

Like boiling down the stupidity of a disabled female frontline trooper in World War 1 as 'you just hate women!'

was the game meant to be some super-accurate story? people conveniently only accept certain kinds of historical inaccuracies

BignutzisBack posted...

Garioshi posted...

What ass creed game was that

1st one
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Illuminoius posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Like boiling down the stupidity of a disabled female frontline trooper in World War 1 as 'you just hate women!'

was the game meant to be some super-accurate story? people conveniently only accept certain kinds of historical inaccuracies

So, because gameplay forces some historical inaccuracies, all historical inaccuracies are immune to scrutiny?
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darkjedilink posted...

Illuminoius posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Like boiling down the stupidity of a disabled female frontline trooper in World War 1 as 'you just hate women!'

was the game meant to be some super-accurate story? people conveniently only accept certain kinds of historical inaccuracies

So, because gameplay forces some historical inaccuracies, all historical inaccuracies are immune to scrutiny?

Not what he said, though I'm not sure if it's more insulting to assume you knew that or not.
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4/5 pages off this super lazy bait?

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Garioshi posted...

I feel like that tells me more about the person who created that than it does the games in question. I've learned that they're anti-religion, anti-war, and anti-patriotism.

main character is a straight white male with super powers or inhuman strengths or a bunch of unexplained gadgets or what have you, perfectly fine/suspension of disbelief/no one questions it

main character is literally just a normal girl or trans character or gay or something, "WTF why are you forcing these characters to be like this without explaining why they are like that"
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Skye Reynolds posted...

Garioshi posted...

I feel like that tells me more about the person who created that than it does the games in question. I've learned that they're anti-religion, anti-war, and anti-patriotism.

the meme is not saying that religion, war, and patriotism are bad. it's saying that they are political themes, and that they are present in those games.
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Evening_Dragon posted...

Not what he said, though I'm not sure if it's more insulting to assume you knew that or not.

yeah i have zero clue how that guy came to that response

Illuminoius posted...

Evening_Dragon posted...

Not what he said, though I'm not sure if it's more insulting to assume you knew that or not.

yeah i have zero clue how that guy came to that response

Because that was the typical response by the woke brigade after the trailer broke - that, because the game wasn't perfectly accurate, a woman with a prosthetic limb on the frontlines was acceptable, and everyone who had a problem with it was sexist.
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averagejoel posted...

Skye Reynolds posted...

Garioshi posted...

I feel like that tells me more about the person who created that than it does the games in question. I've learned that they're anti-religion, anti-war, and anti-patriotism.

the meme is not saying that religion, war, and patriotism are bad. it's saying that they are political themes, and that they are present in those games.

From the way its worded, it tells you which messages they agree with and which ones they don't.

totalnerdken posted...

Can someone explain the Halo one to me? These are all a bit of a stretch , but I just can't see the connection at all here.

The entire image is bullshit. The only politics present there are the ones the far-left image creator is trying to impose on those games those to ridicule things that he/she doesn't like.

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darkjedilink posted...

Illuminoius posted...

Evening_Dragon posted...

Not what he said, though I'm not sure if it's more insulting to assume you knew that or not.

yeah i have zero clue how that guy came to that response

Because that was the typical response by the woke brigade after the trailer broke - that, because the game wasn't perfectly accurate, a woman with a prosthetic limb on the frontlines was acceptable, and everyone who had a problem with it was sexist.

Okay, but that's isn't what the person you're replying to said.
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The Admiral posted...

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]



The entire image is bullshit. The only politics present there are the ones the far-left image creator is trying to impose on those games those to ridicule things that he/she doesn't like.

Oliver North gave advice for a Call of Duty game and had a small cameo in it
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Wait, are we actually gonna pretend that theres no politics at all in modern warfare 2?

The one where ultra-nationalists stage a false flag terrorist attack on their own civilians in order to justify an aggressive war against another country? The one where an American General works with these terrorists in order to justify a war to satisfy his own selfish desires and motivate Americans to join the military to fight in a war under false circumstances?

yep, definitely no politics here.

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The Admiral posted...

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]



The entire image is bullshit. The only politics present there are the ones the far-left image creator is trying to impose on those games those to ridicule things that he/she doesn't like.

This is hilarious, even from you. Congrats man.
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PleaseClap posted...

Wait, are we actually gonna pretend that theres no politics at all in modern warfare 2?

The one where ultra-nationalists stage a false flag terrorist attack on their own civilians in order to justify an aggressive war against another country? The one where an American General works with these terrorists in order to justify a war to satisfy his own selfish desires and motivate Americans to join the military to fight in a war under false circumstances?

yep, definitely no politics here.

I believe we call that a story with a political theme.

Not actual fucking politics.
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Why are you folks bringing up CoD games as if they were ever respected for their sloppy, heavy handed stories? That is boring af, talk about Xenoblade, Silent Hill, Breath of Fire, Shin Megami Tensei, The Last of Us, Chrono Trigger, Nier Replicant/Gestalt/Automata...you know, games that are actually lauded for their stories
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Skye Reynolds posted...

From the way its worded, it tells you which messages they agree with and which ones they don't.

ok

regardless of their opinion on the messages, the point is that the games are not in fact apolitical.
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Banana_Cyanide posted...

PleaseClap posted...

Wait, are we actually gonna pretend that theres no politics at all in modern warfare 2?

The one where ultra-nationalists stage a false flag terrorist attack on their own civilians in order to justify an aggressive war against another country? The one where an American General works with these terrorists in order to justify a war to satisfy his own selfish desires and motivate Americans to join the military to fight in a war under false circumstances?

yep, definitely no politics here.

I believe we call that a story with a political theme.

Not actual fucking politics.

Okay

Which games have actual fucking politics
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totalnerdken posted...

Can someone explain the Halo one to me? These are all a bit of a stretch , but I just can't see the connection at all here.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain the Assassin's Creed one

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Banana_Cyanide posted...

I believe we call that a story with a political theme.

Not actual fucking politics.

Modern Warfare 2 spoilers

You don't think that there's any "actual fucking politics" in a game that shows a Russia that's been taken over by Ultranationalists in war against America? A game that both opens and ends with the player fighting in Afghanistan?

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