Current Events > Anyone seen this Ion Fury hubbub?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Gamers sure are an embarrassing lot.
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https://twitter.com/9_volt_/status/1164180777329922049

Basically.

I wonder how upset these same people were when Nintendo changed Jynx
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Never apologize to the outrage mob. Seriously. It will never be good enough, and those people crying aren't going to buy your game anyway.
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Gobstoppers12 posted...

Never apologize to the outrage mob. Seriously. It will never be good enough, and those people crying aren't going to buy your game anyway.

So how much did you enjoy the homophobic jokes in the game.
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CyricZ posted...

So how much did you enjoy the homophobic jokes in the game.

I don't even know what they were, I just know (for an irrefutable fact) that the outrage was overblown, and an apology wasn't necessary.

I literally don't care what was said. My position is firm.
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Gobstoppers12 posted...

I don't even know

I literally don't care

These are the only irrefutable facts.
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CyricZ posted...

These are the only irrefutable facts.

It's about the principal more than the details. Point being, people will be offended constantly by everything. Appeasing the outrage is the wrong move. There's nothing to do other than ignore the whining and wait for them to move on to the next "unforgivable trespass" around the corner.
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Gobstoppers12 posted...

Never apologize to the outrage mob. Seriously. It will never be good enough, and those people crying aren't going to buy your game anyway.

(a) people actually following and involved in this games community like @butthole666 have said that the majority of people in places like resetera were mostly just disappointed with the homophobia and transphobia and were satisfied with the apology

(b) currently the only outrage mob are those refunding and review bombing the game for apologising for these things, do you think this is normal and or justifiable behaviour

(c) "the people who object to homophobia and transphobia aren't REAL GAMERS" is a weird take

Gobstoppers12 posted...

It's about the principal more than the details.

Well thanks for admitting you don't know or care about the details.

Your principle is that you just don't like hearing people complain, no matter what it means you end up backing, homophobia and transphobia included.
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Wasn't it like literally a dumb joke on a soap bottle, and one word in a hidden area? And they're patching it out.

I'm just wondering what else was in the game
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It was really inevitable that all the right wing culture warriors would become everything they accused other people of being only 100x worse and more sensitive

I actually haven't heard about this

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Malfunction posted...

"the people who object to homophobia and transphobia aren't REAL GAMERS" is a weird take

It's also not what I said, don't put words in my mouth, guy. You're assigning some kind of intrinsic heroism to the act of complaining about jokes. That's not heroic, that's just complaining.

Malfunction posted...

people actually following and involved in this games community like @ butthole666 have said that the majority of people in places like resetera were mostly just disappointed with the homophobia and transphobia and were satisfied with the apology

Grats, it's still a mistake to change the game. Apologize for hurting feelings, but don't change the game. It'll only get worse as time goes by, as outrage gets more and more appeasement in response. Maybe this time it was justified, maybe this time it's a special case, but as a rule, don't change a game just because there are people whining.

Changing games because people whine about them is how games become boring and homogenous.

Malfunction posted...

currently the only outrage mob are those refunding and review bombing the game for apologising for these things, do you think this is normal and or justifiable behaviour

I don't condone that, either. People need to stop bitching so much.
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CyricZ posted...

Your principle is that you just don't like hearing people complain, no matter what it means you end up backing, homophobia and transphobia included.

I don't like seeing faux internet outrage causing developers to knee-jerk censor their games. The controversy would have blown over and sales probably wouldn't have been seriously affected if they had just ignored the crying and released it as it was.
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People are losing their shit, just looked at reviews on GOG and it's people whining about them censoring something.

Do they realize they are acting even more childish than "those 20 SJW twitter accounts that stirred up this nontroversy"?

It's absurd, people are freaking out that the developer "was the last true hope gamers had" and now they're destroying that... by patching out a couple of words.
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CyricZ posted...

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Never apologize to the outrage mob. Seriously. It will never be good enough, and those people crying aren't going to buy your game anyway.

So how much did you enjoy the homophobic jokes in the game.

What were the jokes, exactly? It they were funny, then cool.
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Gobstoppers12 posted...

It's also not what I said, don't put words in my mouth, guy.

That's essentially what "they won't buy it anyway!" amounts to.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

it's still a mistake to change the game

The material effect on the game is zero. The only reason that this instance of people complaining about something and the game being change as a result is being objected to is because it involves homophobic material. If Gamers rose up to protest anything that was perceived as 'non political' (we're at a stage where homophobia is political Lolllll) then you and others would have no issue with developers changing the game.

This also relates to transphobic comments by members of the dev team in a discord which, again, the apology for (and an associated charitable donation) has attracted the most backlash. An apology.

Esrac posted...

CyricZ posted...

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Never apologize to the outrage mob. Seriously. It will never be good enough, and those people crying aren't going to buy your game anyway.

So how much did you enjoy the homophobic jokes in the game.

What were the jokes, exactly? It they were funny, then cool.

The two that I read about were

a soap / shampoo bottle making fun of Olay (it said "O-gay")
and some hidden room (according to some people it required no-clip or something to get to) where it said "f-- bag".

The first one sounds like something they would have made a joke about back in the 90s, maybe.
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Malfunction posted...

That's essentially what "they won't buy it anyway!" amounts to.

It's not. The people getting pissed about it are just looking for things to be pissed about. They're not lining up day 1 to buy this game, they're only latching onto it to stir controversy and drum up some social media clout.

Malfunction posted...

The material effect on the game is zero.

This time, perhaps. I'm not worried about this specific instance--I'm not buying the game. I just disapprove of capitulating to social media outrage in general. This was never about defending a specific word or line of dialogue or anything anybody said in a Discord channel.

It's about ending this cycle of outrage->apology->outrage->apology that only becomes more obnoxious and more frequent as it works more and more often. Eventually something's got to give. It might be homophobia/transphobia/whateverphobia right now, but it could creep into anything given enough time and a high enough success rate.
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Gobstoppers12 posted...

CyricZ posted...

Your principle is that you just don't like hearing people complain, no matter what it means you end up backing, homophobia and transphobia included.

I don't like seeing faux internet outrage causing developers to knee-jerk censor their games. The controversy would have blown over and sales probably wouldn't have been seriously affected if they had just ignored the crying and released it as it was.

Hell, if you had just said "I don't like seeing people complain", it'd seem more honest and I'd believe it.

But no, you have to pile on the "censorship" complaint. That someone can say something and someone else can say "you know what, you're right, we should change that".

To which I ask again, how much did you enjoy the homophobic jokes and what kind of homophobic jokes do you enjoy to the point where their removal from a video game would cause you not to buy it?
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Gobstoppers12 posted...

It's not. The people getting pissed about it are just looking for things to be pissed about. They're not lining up day 1 to buy this game, they're only latching onto it to stir controversy and drum up some social media clout.

People specifically found things they didn't like, and said something about it. You have no evidence that people are "looking for things" like it's some kind of outrage scavenger hunt. You just want to believe that's what it is because you apparently don't have any issue with homophobic jokes.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

I'm not buying the game

So why do you get to complain about this issue yet the people who found the content they object to don't get to complain about it?
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CyricZ posted...

To which I ask again, how much did you enjoy the homophobic jokes and what kind of homophobic jokes do you enjoy to the point where their removal from a video game would cause you not to buy it?

Please read my responses in earnest. If all you're doing is waiting for your chance to throw in another zinger, this argument is going to get nowhere.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

I'm not worried about this specific instance--I'm not buying the game. I just disapprove of capitulating to social media outrage in general. This was never about defending a specific word or line of dialogue or anything anybody said in a Discord channel.

It's about ending this cycle of outrage->apology->outrage->apology that only becomes more obnoxious and more frequent as it works more and more often. Eventually something's got to give. It might be homophobia/transphobia/whateverphobia right now, but it could creep into anything given enough time and a high enough success rate.

If it were as innocuous as: CyricZ posted...

someone can say something and someone else can say "you know what, you're right, we should change that".

I wouldn't be speaking out so strongly. It's more than just "Oh, this might be too offensive, we should change it." It's more like..."We're getting fucking trashed by every media outlet because of two words. We have to change it, or else we're going to be punished severely by social media mob mentality."

I just wish people would chill out in general. Not everything is life or death.
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CyricZ posted...

So why do you get to complain about this issue yet the people who found the content they object to don't get to complain about it?

They can complain. I just wish they'd be ignored. I'm not getting my way, either, and I'll be just fine come morning.
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CyricZ posted...

You just want to believe that's what it is because you apparently don't have any issue with homophobic jokes.

I don't believe in censoring jokes of any sort. At the end of the day, they're jokes.
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Gobstoppers12 posted...

"We're getting fucking trashed by every media outlet because of two words. We have to change it, or else we're going to be punished severely by social media mob mentality."

This is your own exaggeration, and smacks of projection.

May you never make content that someone might object to because you're very likely not going to take the criticism well.
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CyricZ posted...

May you never make content that someone might object to because you're very likely not going to take the criticism well.

Bruh, I literally write Naruto Fanfiction. I even brag about it. You think nobody objects to it? I get death threats and racist shit thrown at me in the review section all the time because Naruto and Hinata aren't together in my story.

I can take criticism just fine. I'm not changing my story just because somebody is bothered by its contents.

Edit: In fact, a while back, I compiled all the negative reviews I had gotten up until that point (and I've gotten dozens more since then) and plugged them into a word cloud.

(Be advised, there is vulgar and racist language in the following image: https://imgur.com/HH3oi5T )

No matter how much shit these people sling, I ain't changing a damn thing.
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"Developers shouldn't apologize for anything! It's their art!"

*Game about Nazis insults Nazis*

"OMG please stop calling all conservatives Nazis. I'm not buying your game"
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Gobstoppers12 posted...

Never apologize to the outrage mob. Seriously. It will never be good enough, and those people crying aren't going to buy your game anyway.

i dunno, i know one person who played the game only to refund it when they found shit that was directly attacking them

hockeybub89 posted...

"OMG please stop calling all conservatives Nazis. I'm not buying your game"

You'll notice I never said that.

Though, there is an argument to be made. Not in defense of Nazis, but in addressing the fact that a lot of people who are not Nazis wind up being called Nazis (myself included, on this very website, more often than I would have thought possible).

It's one thing to hate Nazis. I hate Nazis, too. It's another thing to hate anybody who voted for Trump on the basis that they're all Nazis, as some people seem to believe.

Edit: There's also a difference between "Change your game, bigot" and "I choose not to buy your game because I disagree with its content."
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Deranged people being annoyed that fanfiction doesn't follow the exact story beats they want =/= being unhappy that a game contains needless homophobic material and members of the dev team are actively transphobic

Malfunction posted...

Deranged people being annoyed that fanfiction doesn't follow the exact story beats they want =/= being unhappy that a game contains needless homophobic material and members of the dev team are actively transphobic

That was more in response to the idea that I can't take criticism, not a direct comparison to the situation.

I still don't think they should have changed the game, though.
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And now it all makes more sense.

Every perspective you have on criticism is through the lens of your own experience with the fanfiction community.

"Ignoring criticism" is not the same as being able to "take criticism".

So allow me to amend my previous statement:

May you never try to actually make a living off content you create, because your stubbornness will get you nowhere.

To offer my own experience, the quality of my writing, both on this site and in my professional life, hinges on people being able to review and comment on my work. It's how I improve and make a better product.
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if Gamers got developers to remove lootboxes from a game it would be an epic gamer win but remove two totally unimportant pieces of homophobic material and it's censorship

Gobstoppers12 posted...

CyricZ posted...

You just want to believe that's what it is because you apparently don't have any issue with homophobic jokes.

I don't believe in censoring jokes of any sort. At the end of the day, they're jokes.

This is a pretty bad take, considering the jokes were originally in bad taste, it ignores the context of developers' comments outside of the game on social media, and ultimately it's their own game and their own decision to self-censor. It has *zero* impact on the design of the game.
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CyricZ posted...

"Ignoring criticism" is not the same as being able to "take criticism".

Criticism is only as good as its source, at the end of the day.

For the record, the only reason I'm not addressing the content of the discord conversation is because if I get into detail and share my perspective on it, I'll probably get suspended for going against the established narrative dictated by the mods around here.
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Gobstoppers12 posted...

CyricZ posted...

"Ignoring criticism" is not the same as being able to "take criticism".

Criticism is only as good as its source, at the end of the day.

For the record, the only reason I'm not addressing the content of the discord conversation is because if I get into detail and share my perspective on it, I'll probably get suspended for going against the established narrative dictated by the mods around here.

You know you have a good argument when it leads to "I can't talk about this because I'll get modded."
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CyricZ posted...

You know you have a good argument when it leads to "I can't talk about this because I'll get modded."

It's the sad truth. Certain perspectives are considered warn-worthy around here. Even if they're a personal opinion. It doesn't change my mind, I just can't actively debate the issue.
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Not likely that "actively debating" the topic would change your mind either.

Malfunction posted...

Not likely that "actively debating" the topic would change your mind either.

You're right. It probably wouldn't.

Guess we'll never know, though.

:^)
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Well reading all that shit was a complete waste of time, added Gobstopper to my ignore list for wasting my time.
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should I seek medical attn for rolling my eyes too hard at this disingenuous "gee whiz if only we could discuss my horrible views I might change them :)" stuff

Malfunction posted...

if Gamers got developers to remove lootboxes from a game it would be an epic gamer win but remove two totally unimportant pieces of homophobic material and it's censorship

Weird how the only sacred things in games are random jokes.

Endings, writing, bad gameplay decisions, etc are free game and good developers will listen to their fans and make changes with feedback.

Patch out an OGAY shampoo bottle?! How can you compromise your art for people who don't buy games?! Never apologize! Never change!

And that's another thing. A lot of these outraged at outrage gamers seem to assume all gamers are like them. Everyone else is a fake gamer who doesn't buy things anyway
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Hexenherz posted...

Well reading all that shit was a complete waste of time, added Gobstopper to my ignore list for wasting my time.

oh no i'm heartbroken this is my heartbroken face :(

Edit: (Does anybody know who in the flying fuck that guy is? I have no idea.)
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Ogay is the issue? I saw an image of that and was trying to figure out what was the offensive part. Although I was under the impression it was something directed primarily at transgenders so maybe that's why.
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Gobstoppers12 posted...

Never apologize to the outrage mob. Seriously. It will never be good enough, and those people crying aren't going to buy your game anyway.

1 dev said objectively terrible things and then had a fuckin Epic Gamer Moment, was using the company twitter as his personal account to follow all sorts of far right shit, and just generally kept digging himself deeper. 3DR apologized, which is all anyone even wanted, then made a donation to a suicide hotline for teenagers completely unprompted and of their own will as a show of good faith. Because of this, a bunch of brainlet redpilled dipshits went absolutely ballistic and started engaging in the exact behavior they were accusing the outrage mob of, and started having a mass melty over a single sprite and oob slur. Every review parrots the same smoothbrain fucking BENT THE KNEE bullshit that they think makes them sound smart or cultured or manly or whatever, uses intentionally inflammatory and graphic language, and engages in incredible intentional dishonesty over what was said, what it means, why it was offensive, and the role the outrage mob played. The dev in question has a history of being toxic in the DOOM community and all these loser ass incels who arent invested in retro FPS are completely ignoring this. I mean for christs sake, you know youre wrong when goddamn Sgt. Mark (Brutal DOOM guy, neo nazi) is on your side.
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GeneralKenobi85 posted...

Ogay is the issue? I saw an image of that and was trying to figure out what was the offensive part. Although I was under the impression it was something directed primarily at transgenders so maybe that's why.

A dev said some cut and dry transphobic shit on the companys official, public discord
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Im convinced most of these weakchinned crybabies are buying the game specifically to bomb it, which is amazing
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I see the usual suspects are defending bigoted shit. What a surprise

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I mean for fucks sake some absolute fuckin megamind actually said theres a difference between gay and a f**, you sir are the former you are one of the ones whose hand I would gladly shake when a gay guy posted that the game is good regardless on steam. Literally a one of the good ones post.

s m o o t h be the brains
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