Poll of the Day > CEO of at-home DNA testing company granted FBI access to their database without

(+) Yeah! (+)

notifying customers or seeking their consent:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/customers-handed-over-their-dna-the-company-let-the-fbi-take-a-look-11566491162

The trouble started when the Federal Bureau of Investigation attorney made a personal appeal to Bennett Greenspan.

Mr. Greenspan, president of FamilyTreeDNA, was used to fielding requests from genealogists, customers, even friends of friends, seeking help with DNA testing. The FBIs Steve Kramer wasnt among them.

The companys database of over 1.5 million customers could help solve heinous crimes, the attorney said. He wanted to upload DNA data in two cases to see if there were genetic links to other users. Turning up matches to even distant relatives might generate leads.

This wasnt what his customers signed up for, Mr. Greenspan knew. People typically took DNA tests to find long-lost relatives or learn more about their ancestry. They didnt expect their genetic data might become part of a criminal investigation.

But one case involved a dead child whose body had never been claimed. The other was from a rape crime scene. Mr. Greenspan was horrified by the details.

He didnt tell the FBI attorney to come back with a court order. He didnt stop to ponder the moral quandaries. He said yes on the spot.

I have been a CEO for a long time, said Mr. Greenspan, 67 years old, who founded the Houston-based company in 1999. I have made decisions on my own for a long time. In this case, it was easy. We were talking about horrendous crimes. So I made the decision.

Increasing numbers of people are taking DNA tests. As the databases expand, so do uses of the information. Decisions on what uses are permissible largely rest with the controllers of the DNA databasessometimes a single individual at a company.

DNA samples inside a processing machine in the FamilyTreeDNA analysis lab.
Millions of consumers use genetic data to gain insight into family roots or learn about health risks. The boom has also revealed information test takers never expected, such as the identities of biological parents in adoptions or partners involved in secret relationships.

DNA databases have drawn interest from outsiders toodrug companies eager to mine them for information, researchers studying population migration and law enforcement seeking leads to crime suspects.

Taking a DNA test does not just tell a story about me. DNA tests inevitably reveal information about many other people too, without their consent, says Natalie Ram, an associate professor of law at the University of Maryland Carey School of Law, who studies genetic privacy. Should genetic databases be allowed to make up the rules as they go along?

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Was going to quote the rest of the article but it's a long one and I'm on my phone. Would have to make a few posts to keep them under the character limit.
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Since Im not a murderer or a rapist, Im all for the authorities using this type of info to solve cold cases and crimes. The only people it really effects are the scumbags that deserve to be caught.

Bad. But not as bad as 23andme selling theirs imo.
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Good intentions but bad execution in my opinion.
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GameLord113 posted...

Since Im not a murderer or a rapist, Im all for the authorities using this type of info to solve cold cases and crimes. The only people it really effects are the scumbags that deserve to be caught.

yikes

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GameLord113 posted...

Since Im not a murderer or a rapist, Im all for the authorities using this type of info to solve cold cases and crimes. The only people it really effects are the scumbags that deserve to be caught.

The only people that should be afraid of government surveillance cameras in their homes are those who are doing something illegal.

DirtBasedSoap posted...

yikes

What are you scared of? You got some skeletons in your closet are just paranoid?

InfestedAdam posted...

Good intentions but bad execution in my opinion.

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sveksii posted...

GameLord113 posted...

Since Im not a murderer or a rapist, Im all for the authorities using this type of info to solve cold cases and crimes. The only people it really effects are the scumbags that deserve to be caught.

The only people that should be afraid of government surveillance cameras in their homes are those who are doing something illegal.

I'd say this is quite different. I don't mind my DNA being used to find criminals, but they don't need to know what I eat and when I take a shit.

I agree with whoever said bad execution though. It should be opt-in.

GameLord113 posted...

What are you scared of? You got some skeletons in your closet are just paranoid?

I dont care about free speech because I have nothing to say

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DirtBasedSoap posted...

I dont care about free speech because I have nothing to say

Thats completely different. Try again.

Its extremely similar to that though, man. Why do you wanna take it up the butt from the government and corporations so bad? Cause it seems like youre rolling out the red carpet for them. Dont get too complacent with this kind of stuff.

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DirtBasedSoap posted...

Why do you wanna take it up the butt from the government and corporations so bad?

I guess I feel like I have nothing to hide. Sure Ive done some questionable and embarrassing things when I was younger, but nothing where the feds are going to be kicking in my door. Plus if a corporation wants to use my info to sell me a better product, Im all for it. Shit if some company was like hey based on your DNA and genealogical makeup you should be eating this type of food and taking these supplements to live longer and feel better, I would thank them. You shouldnt be afraid of big business. They want you alive and doing well to get more of your money.

big yikes

i guess people like gamelord are how we got to the point were at though. sad :(


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DirtBasedSoap posted...

big yikes

i guess people like gamelord are how we got to the point were at though. sad :(

Maybe he's kidding. I hope...
I have nothing to hide but privacy should be respected.

You should be afraid of big business. They just want power. That's all. Everything else is a lie that's easy to swallow.

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I havent done anything to warrant getting put in prison either but I'm still not giving up my privacy and information to random corporate or government entities because it's none of their goddamn business. And that's a slope that is indeed slippery. Pretty soon we'll be at a point where they'll wanna put cameras in everyone's home and justify it by saying, "we dont actually watch you unless you're doing something wrong." Nobody is entitled to my private info just because they're a government agency that's assuring me it's for the common good

OhhhJa posted...

I havent done anything to warrant getting put in prison either but I'm still not giving up my privacy and information to random corporate or government entities because it's none of their goddamn business. And that's a slope that is indeed slippery. Pretty soon we'll be at a point where they'll wanna put cameras in everyone's home and justify it by saying, "we dont actually watch you unless you're doing something wrong." Nobody is entitled to my private info just because they're a government agency that's assuring me it's for the common good

tbh, theyve already put cameras in everyones home (pocket)

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True. They just srent blatantly out in the open with it yet even though everyone pretty much knows

GameLord113 posted...

DirtBasedSoap posted...

Why do you wanna take it up the butt from the government and corporations so bad?

I guess I feel like I have nothing to hide. Sure Ive done some questionable and embarrassing things when I was younger, but nothing where the feds are going to be kicking in my door. Plus if a corporation wants to use my info to sell me a better product, Im all for it. Shit if some company was like hey based on your DNA and genealogical makeup you should be eating this type of food and taking these supplements to live longer and feel better, I would thank them. You shouldnt be afraid of big business. They want you alive and doing well to get more of your money.

Even if you have nothing to hide, do you really want someone watching you shit, shower, eat, and sleep just because youre not doing anything wrong. Also, DNA sometimes get messed up and you could get in trouble for something you didnt do. At least until the mistake is cleared up... if it gets cleared up.

They are also using it to find distant relatives of people that might not even know the other person exist. Which sucks. Getting questioned about someone youve never met. At least, it sounds like that.

People shouldnt be afraid of big business. But I also dont want to give them more power, either...
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people really think "you have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide" is a real argument, lol

okay why don't we just put surveillance cameras all over your home and we'll see how you feel. you don't have anything to hide, right?
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why don't i just come to your house and rifle through your drawers and your medicine cabinet. it's fine, right? i won't find anything bad, right? so i can do that and it'll be fine
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they're going to get sued so hard.
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Bulbasaur posted...

they're going to get sued so hard.

I agree with this. Did he really think it was a good idea and would be ok to do this?
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GameLord113 posted...

Since Im not a murderer or a rapist, Im all for the authorities using this type of info to solve cold cases and crimes. The only people it really effects are the scumbags that deserve to be caught.

What if your DNA coincidentally is at a crime scene and police incorrectly arrest you?
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You know why I dont give my DNA to government or corporate entities. Because fuck em that's why

My mother, brother, and biological uncle have already sold me out for entertainment.

It's all kinds of fucked up and it's the biggest reason I don't like putting my information in company's hands -- because, just in like China, sooner or later that information ends up in the government's hands.
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GameLord113 posted...

Since Im not a murderer or a rapist, Im all for the authorities using this type of info to solve cold cases and crimes. The only people it really effects are the scumbags that deserve to be caught.

Remember when Hitler used the census to identify and track down Jews? Never assume that the government won't use past data like this to commit crimes against innocents in the future.

Honestly, if you're trusting enough to send your DNA to a random corporation, you kind of have this sort of thing coming to you...
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GameLord113 posted...

The only people it really effects are the scumbags that deserve to be caught.

Or people that enjoy having their privacy respected. People send their DNA in to explore their ancestry or discover long lost relatives, not to be thrown into a police database to see if they can be connected to a crime.
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darkknight109 posted...

Honestly, if you're trusting enough to send your DNA to a random corporation, you kind of have this sort of thing coming to you...

I bet you're the kind of person who thinks old people deserve to be scammed because they're senile or otherwise gullible. Really awful attitude you have there.

Keebs05 posted...

GameLord113 posted...

The only people it really effects are the scumbags that deserve to be caught.

Or people that enjoy having their privacy respected. People send their DNA in to explore their ancestry or discover long lost relatives, not to be thrown into a police database to see if they can be connected to a crime.

read the fine print.

Zangulus posted...

I love how peope are like "ONLY CRIMINCALS GET CAUGHTS" and they have no idea how DNA actually works and that it has a huge failure rate. ROFL

what is this "failure rate" and can you provide evidence for this claim

Fam_Fam posted...

what is this "failure rate" and can you provide evidence for this claim

Last I checked, which was ~5 years ago now, the industry-accepted failure rate for DNA tests was about 2%. That tends to add up with large groups.

Grendel posted...

I bet you're the kind of person who thinks old people deserve to be scammed because they're senile or otherwise gullible.

Fantastic strawman argument you have there, but no, and this isn't even a remotely comparable situation.

No one is specifically targeting you the way a scammer does, reaching out and asking you to send them your DNA. You're seeking out this company - a for-profit DNA lab - and sending them your DNA, most likely without reading through the terms-and-conditions of their service, then acting stunned when the company does things with your DNA that you don't approve of.

This basically falls into the same category as people who act outraged that Facebook is abusing privacy despite it being entirely their decision to upload their lives onto the platform: scummy behaviour by the corporation, but completely predictable for anyone who pays the slightest amount of attention to how corporations actually work.
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darkknight109 posted...

this isn't even a remotely comparable situation.

Yes it is. Both are forms of exploitation predominantly affecting trusting or gullible people and it's pretty disgusting to imply they somehow deserve it because their trust was violated. I am so sick of people pretending like because two situations aren't identical in every way they are therefore completely incomparable. Stop it. Correct your attitude and understand that these people are victims of shitty people too.

darkknight109 posted...

No one is specifically targeting you the way a scammer does, reaching out and asking you to send them your DNA.

Advertisements that conveniently don't mention they're going to hand the results over to the government.

darkknight109 posted...

This basically falls into the same category as people who act outraged that Facebook is abusing privacy despite it being entirely their decision to upload their lives onto the platform

It's your choice to send your money to a Nigerian prince as well. Both cases are choice. Until someone storms into your house and takes your money by force it's extremely comparable and you're being disingenuous.

darkknight109 posted...

completely predictable for anyone who pays the slightest amount of attention to how corporations actually work.

Likewise phone scams are completely predictable for most people.

Grendel posted...

Yes it is.

No, it's not.

There's a pretty big difference between someone predatorily seeking out a vulnerable victim and deliberately tailoring their scam to bait them in versus someone who offers a service, tells you exactly what they will do with anything you send them, and then does that very thing.

If someone's car gets broken into, they're a theft victim. If someone leaves their car running in the middle of a bad neighbourhood with a bunch of valuables spread all over the seats and it gets broken into, they're a really stupid theft victim.

See the difference?

Grendel posted...

Correct your attitude and understand that these people are victims of shitty people too.

Never said they weren't; I just pointed out that they really should have known better.

Grendel posted...

Advertisements that conveniently don't mention they're going to hand the results over to the government.

Funny thing about companies - they don't often advertise the shittier elements of their service.

Caveat Emptor and all that. If I sell you a house for a million dollars and it turns out to be a run-down shack that is unsuitable for human habitation, I may be an awful person but it's still a product of you not doing your due diligence, especially if I never made any attempt to conceal the condition of the house.

Grendel posted...

It's your choice to send your money to a Nigerian prince as well. Both cases are choice.

Unless you're deliberately looking up Nigerian princes online, that person approached you first, whereas in the case of the DNA test you approached them and asked them to accept your DNA (and even paid them for the privilege). Same thing with your follow-up point on phone scams where, again, vulnerable targets (usually seniors or those with poor English skills) are deliberately targeted with aggressive tactics designed to pressure them into handing over sensitive data (as opposed to the DNA companies, which don't pressure you at all).

Not sure if you really don't understand the difference here or are just being deliberately obtuse.
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This company and the FBI can get fucked. Glad I never did that shit.
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Zangulus posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

Zangulus posted...

I love how peope are like "ONLY CRIMINCALS GET CAUGHTS" and they have no idea how DNA actually works and that it has a huge failure rate. ROFL

what is this "failure rate" and can you provide evidence for this claim

Like the one person said, 2%. But that means Im in a country where 7 million people could potentially trigger a positive...

Its ridiculously high for using as a way to find and catch criminals. Especially without peoples knowledge or consent.

suppose you look for DNA and then find something that potentially is an issue. You can re-test again and see there's no problem, or investigate the circumstances and see if there's likely to be any problem.

you're acting as if 2% of the population will go to jail if there's a false positive. all it does is give them people to look into.

Fam_Fam posted...

Zangulus posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

Zangulus posted...

I love how peope are like "ONLY CRIMINCALS GET CAUGHTS" and they have no idea how DNA actually works and that it has a huge failure rate. ROFL

what is this "failure rate" and can you provide evidence for this claim

Like the one person said, 2%. But that means Im in a country where 7 million people could potentially trigger a positive...

Its ridiculously high for using as a way to find and catch criminals. Especially without peoples knowledge or consent.

suppose you look for DNA and then find something that potentially is an issue. You can re-test again and see there's no problem, or investigate the circumstances and see if there's likely to be any problem.

you're acting as if 2% of the population will go to jail if there's a false positive. all it does is give them people to look into.

With police acting the way they do sometimes, that person may go to jail for a little. Also, it depends on which end the mistake was made...
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