Current Events > After World Cup win, US women pivot to gender discrimination lawsuit

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/world-cup-us-women-gender-discrimination-fight/story?id=64109603

https://s.abcnews.com/images/Sports/un-women-graphic-soccer-salaries-ht-jc-190705_hpEmbed_1x1_992.jpg


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People watch women's soccer once every 4 years.
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I'm confused why TC is either confused or upset about this.
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DeadBankerDream posted...

I'm confused why TC is either confused or upset about this.

Im not upset. Imgtc is dead right now. Link in OP which I can't direct link with imgtc is an image where Messi makes 84 million. 1693 women soccer players make a combined 42 million. I had no idea about that.
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Fair enough, that will teach me for assuming the links were articles.
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PoopPotato posted...

People watch women's soccer once every 4 years.

That's not exclusive to women's soccer, though.
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Any have figures on what revenue men's league brings in vs women's leagues?
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https://twitter.com/minapark/status/1147915973531492353?s=19
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BLAKUboy posted...

PoopPotato posted...

People watch women's soccer once every 4 years.

That's not exclusive to women's soccer, though.

Then we need to look at how much revenue each league brings in. If there is a large discrepancy there then they have a case. Otherwise this is almost like being upset that your Chevy Sonic won't fetch the same price as a Camaro.
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Each League's revenue from games determines how much money there is to allocate to players salary, right?

The Men's Leagues has ___ attendees + merchandise revenue + distribution royalties.

The Women's Leagues should be separate from the men on every equivalent financial income source.

So how much does Men's Leagues bring in compared to Women's?

Anybody got good accurate #'s?
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shockthemonkey posted...

Squall28 posted...

Any figures on what revenue men's league brings in vs women's leagues?

This isnt an issue of mens league vs womens league. This is about two international teams and the revenue they generate.

Does anybody have actual figures?
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2019/03/07/world-cup-soccer-pay-disparity-between-men-and-women-is-justified/

This article states that while the men generate more revenue, the women actually take home a larger percentage of the earnings. Until people pay more for the women's product, they'll continue to earn less.
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PoopPotato posted...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2019/03/07/world-cup-soccer-pay-disparity-between-men-and-women-is-justified/

This article states that while the men generate more revenue, the women actually take home a larger percentage of the earnings. Until people pay more for the women's product, they'll continue to earn less.

That explains it then.

Men's league draws more revenue then Women's.

Ergo the salary gap.

If Women want more money, they need to bring in more revenue from fans.

Get people to watch / attend / buy merchandise.
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shockthemonkey posted...

In the US, the women do. This article is not specifically about the US.

Show me the official #'s.
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Average nwls attendance 55k a season total
Average Barcelona attendance 78k a game

The Women's World Cup brought in almost $73 million, of which the players got 13%. The 2010 men's World Cup in South Africa made almost $4 billion, of which 9% went to the players.

The men still pull the World Cup money wagon. The men's World Cup in Russia generated over $6 billion in revenue, with the participating teams sharing $400 million, less than 7% of revenue. Meanwhile, the Women's World Cup is expected to earn $131 million for the full four-year cycle 2019-22 and dole out $30 million to the participating teams.

In 2016, womens games generated $1.9 million more in revenue than mens games. From 2016 to 2018, womens games generated approximately $50.8 million in revenue, compared with $49.9 million for mens games.

Sounds so messy. Is it because the first quote accounts for stuff outside just game tickets?
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Squall28 posted...

Sounds so messy. Is it because the first quote accounts for stuff outside just game tickets?

This is why you need proper accounting.
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The first numbers are for the world leagues.
The second one is just US men's and women's national teams.

I'm trying to find the revenues of each league but I'm having difficulty. One article from 2018 says the average MLS team makes 32 million in revenue which would put the league at around 768 million.
I cnt find anything on the womens league other than they have a salary cap of 46,500 a year.
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PoopPotato posted...

I cnt find anything on the womens league other than they have a salary cap of 46,500 a year.

Which person determined that "Salary Cap"?
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KamenRiderBlade posted...

PoopPotato posted...

I cnt find anything on the womens league other than they have a salary cap of 46,500 a year.

Which person determined that "Salary Cap"?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-soccer-women-nwsl/soccer-us-womens-league-increases-roster-size-player-pay-idUSKCN1P42MA

The board of directors, it would seem.
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PoopPotato posted...

The board of directors, it would seem.

Then they should be the ones the Women's Soccer Players complain to or go on strike as a union.
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"The U.S. women's soccer team does not need to be the best in the world in order to earn equal pay. The point of non-discrimination law is that employees doing similar work should be paid equally," Suzanne B. Goldberg, director of the Center for Gender & Sexuality Law at the Columbia Law School, told ABC News.

This is complete horseshit. If she wants to claim that the US women do "similar work," let them play against the same teams the U.S. men do and see how that turns out.

If we want to make a non-stupid argument, it should be that the woman deserve the same proportional share of revenue that the men generate. If they generate more, they should be paid more. If they don't generate as much, crying about "gender discrimination" is disingenuous.
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PoopPotato posted...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2019/03/07/world-cup-soccer-pay-disparity-between-men-and-women-is-justified/

This article states that while the men generate more revenue, the women actually take home a larger percentage of the earnings. Until people pay more for the women's product, they'll continue to earn less.

Maybe the men should sue!
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While they're at it, go demand equal wages to american football players too. How about it? They are men and you are women. Men and women should be equal right?

Fuck off.
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The Admiral posted...

This is complete horseshit. If she wants to claim that the US women do "similar work," let them play against the same teams the U.S. men do and see how that turns out.

sexist
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shockthemonkey posted...

Cobra1010 posted...

While they're at it, go demand equal wages to american football players too. How about it? They are men and you are women. Men and women should be equal right?

Fuck off.

What do you gain from misrepresenting the entire issue?

I don't think you get the issue, either. From the article

"The women are paid under a different structure than the men, which they preferred and specifically negotiated for, but that doesn't mean they are compensated less by U.S. Soccer," a U.S. Soccer spokesperson told ABC News.

There is no evidence of any "discrimination" whatsoever here. US Men's Soccer is the not the same product as US Women's soccer.
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Never mind that article was already posted.

I will say that I don't see how you could argue that it's "the same so equal pay" boxers salaries vary greatly from person to person and it should be revenue based.
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Sorry if I derailed this a little bit.

The issue is that the US Soccer organization runs both the Men's and Women's teams and sponsors them while they play in the world cup tournaments. The women have earned about 2 million or so more in revenues each year since 2015, yet are being paid less than the men by the US Soccer organization. I don't have the numbers for what the men and women teams are paid by US Soccer.
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shockthemonkey posted...

They arent suing over their league pay, whats the point of completely ignoring the situation this topic is about?

The point is that their pay should be determined by how much revenue their "Team" should be bringing in and how much of a cut their players get.

Unless the Teams pool in to form a agreement on how much to pay the players, then that's a different story.

If one league / team is doing better; I don't see why that team / league shouldn't be paying more.

If your contract is bounded by the League, that's an issue with the league.

Do you expect one half of the other side of a seperated league to pay for your side?

Men's League/Team revenue covers Men's League/Team costs

Women's League/Team revenue covers Women's League/Team costs.

How is this so hard to understand?

They literally should be seperate businesses.
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KamenRiderBlade posted...

If your contract is bounded by the League, that's an issue with the league.

The professional leagues are unrelated to the issue at hand, which is pay from the federation.
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The Admiral posted...

There is no evidence of any "discrimination" whatsoever here. US Men's Soccer is the not the same product as US Women's soccer.

Aren't they legally seperate entities as well?
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They should worry less about pay equity and more about transgender athletes forcing cis gender women out of sports. Getting equal pay won't matter if it becomes impossible to actually play sports at a pro level as a cis gender woman...

Antifar posted...

The professional leagues are unrelated to the issue at hand, which is pay from the federation.

So the Managing Federation has control over the players salary, not the individual Teams / Leagues?
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shockthemonkey posted...

League pay has absolutely nothing to do with their international pay. You need to accept this if youre going to have a conversation here.

So the Federation controls that pay?
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shockthemonkey posted...

Theyre both parts of US Soccer.

So how is the accounting done on revenue taken?

Is it split by gender?
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PoopPotato posted...

People watch women's soccer once every 4 years.

Yeah and same thing can be said about men's soccer too. In the US anyway.
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KamenRiderBlade posted...

Antifar posted...

The professional leagues are unrelated to the issue at hand, which is pay from the federation.

So the Managing Federation has control over the players salary, not the individual Teams / Leagues?

The federation pays players salaries for their appearances with the national team. Teams and leagues pay salaries for their club play.

The one exception is that I believe the federation subsidizes the club pay for women who play in the NWSL, who would otherwise command larger salaries than the league's owners could pay.
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shockthemonkey posted...

KamenRiderBlade posted...

The Admiral posted...

There is no evidence of any "discrimination" whatsoever here. US Men's Soccer is the not the same product as US Women's soccer.

Aren't they legally seperate entities as well?

Theyre both parts of US Soccer.

That's not accurate.

In U.S. Soccers May 6 legal response to the suit, the federation said the mens and womens teams are separate organizations with separate collective-bargaining agreements. It said that any alleged pay differential between the mens and womens teams is based on differences in the aggregate revenue generated by the different teams and/or any other factor other than sex.

Also, the claim that "women earned more revenue" is only true of gate sales (and it's marginally more). It ignores revenue from broadcast rights, which are much higher for men's soccer. The is cherry picking one type of revenue to make a disingenuous claim, it seems.
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