Current Events > The No. 1 financial enemy for young adults is higher education

(+) Yeah! (+)

It's the basic reality that neither party is willing to admit - higher education administration and bureaucracy is destroying the future of most of today's young adults.

Blaming the lenders is just creating a scapegoat. As long as education costs this much, you'll have to take loans.

We get mad at CEOs and healthcare and whatnot, but at the end of the day, the reason you can't afford a house, kids or even basic amenities is because either:

1) You didn't get a higher education, which is basically required now.

2) You got a higher education and are stuck with the ridiculously inflated bill that will take a lifetime to pay off.

At this point, it would be the equivalent of a Baby Boomer being stuck with a mortgage (despite not having a home) after graduation.
---

How many loans did you take out for med school?
---

How about we "HIGHLY Regulate" the Education sector!

Make sure they can't over charge for everything.

Force the elimination of all wasteful spending!
---

Hairistotle posted...

Aren't there candidates campaigning on wiping out student loan debt?

Simply wiping out student debt doesn't solve the problem so much as temporarily treat the symptom. Wiping that debt is useless if the next generation is just going to start building it up again. Something needs to be done about our existing debt, but it needs to be paired with a solution to prevent this problem from returning.
---

darkphoenix181 posted...

How many loans did you take out for med school?

She's almost done paying them off!
---

Hairistotle posted...

Aren't there candidates campaigning on wiping out student loan debt?

Loan debt is not the cause of the problem.

The problem is that the cost is grossly inflated to the point of obscenity.
---

Agreed. Paying off loans doesnt solve the problem of college being so expensive that nearly everyone needs loans. Making college free doesnt solve the problem that most people end up working underneath their degree.
---

KamenRiderBlade posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

How many loans did you take out for med school?

She's almost done paying them off!

That would be a bad move if next potus just forgives all loans
---

Hairistotle posted...

DarkRoast posted...

Hairistotle posted...

Aren't there candidates campaigning on wiping out student loan debt?

Loan debt is not the cause of the problem.

The problem is that the cost is grossly inflated to the point of obscenity.

Aren't there candidates campaigning on affordable schooling?

Not one of them has even hinted at the possibility that college is overpriced.

They shift the blame around instead.

Because the fatcat University administrators are among the highest donors.
---

Hairistotle posted...

Aren't there candidates campaigning on wiping out student loan debt?

That means nothing since everyone who paid is fighting tooth and nail to fight it. Especially since they'd essentially be double dipping if it's taxed onto us. I'd be pissed too if I spent a decade paying off a loan just to be taxed to pay off everyone else's loan.

I'll forever argue that the best middle m ground is simply to 0 out the interest rate of loans, at least temporarily. Like 1 month interest free for every year you've had the loans currently attached to your name or something like that. Use that time to drive your principal down as much as you can.
---

DarkRoast posted...

Blaming the lenders is just creating a scapegoat. As long as education costs this much, you'll have to take loans.

All of this started BECAUSE we started taking loans. If we stopped or severely restricted loans, colleges would have no choice but to lower tuitions and downsize their excessive administrative staff and other costs. There would still be options available to help lower income students like the Pell grant, but otherwise paying out of pocket is the way it should be.

darkphoenix181 posted...

That would be a bad move if next potus just forgives all loans

I think she's doing the correct move. Not depending on wishful thinking of solving the problem and hoping somebody saves her.

She's solving her own problem correctly instead of bucking the bill and hoping somebody else foots it.
---

DarkRoast posted...

Not one of them has even hinted at the possibility that college is overpriced.

They shift the blame around instead.

Because the fatcat University administrators are among the highest donors.

That's part of the problem with the lobbying system. $$$ talks and gets your regulation passed in your favor.

That's why $$$ needs to be seperated from lobbying and literally outlawed as the corruption that it is.

Any form of material, financial, or service benefit should be counted as corruption and a arrestable offense.

But the politicians literally legalized bribery.
---

Annihilated posted...

DarkRoast posted...

Blaming the lenders is just creating a scapegoat. As long as education costs this much, you'll have to take loans.

All of this started BECAUSE we started taking loans. If we stopped or severely restricted loans, colleges would have no choice but to lower tuitions and downsize their excessive administrative staff and other costs. There would still be options available to help lower income students like the Pell grant, but otherwise paying out of pocket is the way it should be.

Nope. Scapegoating.

If a college says "gee, people can take as much loans as they need, so let's exploit it," the lenders aren't to blame. It's the college for exploiting it.
---

KamenRiderBlade posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

That would be a bad move if next potus just forgives all loans

I think she's doing the correct move. Not depending on wishful thinking of solving the problem and hoping somebody saves her.

She's solving her own problem correctly instead of bucking the bill and hoping somebody else foots it.

I'm not going to assume that any politician would actually forgive loans, because let's be real, it's not actually going to happen.
---

KamenRiderBlade posted...

How about we "HIGHLY Regulate" the Education sector!

Make sure they can't over charge for everything.

Force the elimination of all wasteful spending!

This.

My university had shit like a theater and a pool table room

You dont need ANY of that shit. Theres a theater and bars with pool tables across the fucking street. Its a major scam
---

gna647 posted...

KamenRiderBlade posted...

How about we "HIGHLY Regulate" the Education sector!

Make sure they can't over charge for everything.

Force the elimination of all wasteful spending!

This.

My university had shit like a theater and a pool table room

You dont need ANY of that shit. Theres a theater and bars with pool tables across the fucking street. Its a major scam

Plus most universities run absolutely disgusting surpluses.
---

And one problem with higher education is going out of state.

Hairistotle posted...

Aren't Sanders and Warren campaigning on free college?

Nothing is free in life, somebody ALWAYS has to pay the bill.

That's reality.

That means taxes will have to spike for that.

You know how the public feels about taxes.

We're already taxed to the hilt and the rich aren't taxed enough.

And everybody complains about how the taxes are used.

But the reality is that if things were highly regulated, then it would be far cheaper and School Administrators can't overcharge if we put in regulations to prevent them from doing so.

You see all those Administrative overhead and Bureaucrats, guess what somebody has to pay for all that.

All those fancy new campuses / buildings, those don't come cheap.

And Textbooks, oh how they are so freaking inflated.
---

If universities were thought of as companies with products you essentially HAD to buy (for example, health insurance), their presidents and administrators would be called to testify before Congress daily for how badly they exploit that fact.
---

gna647 posted...

This.

My university had shit like a theater and a pool table room

You dont need ANY of that shit. Theres a theater and bars with pool tables across the fucking street. Its a major scam

I concur, the University shouldn't be providing junk like a Theater & Pool Table room.

People come to University to learn, not watch movies for fun or shoot pool!

Another form of excess / waste.
---

WingStopMaster posted...

And one problem with higher education is going out of state.

Ergo "Forced Local Monopolies"
---

DarkRoast posted...

Plus most universities run absolutely disgusting surpluses.

Things like Tenure & Pensions are very expensive.
---

It's time people start looking elsewhere to advance their careers. Let the Colleges and Universities try and figure out where all their money went. They've gotten far too greedy. This is their fault, imo.

By the time I have a kid and they're 18: I mean, I'm going to suggest either A) Getting into a trade/tech school B) the money I'd give them for University I'd say go put a down payment on a house
---

KamenRiderBlade posted...

gna647 posted...

This.

My university had shit like a theater and a pool table room

You dont need ANY of that shit. Theres a theater and bars with pool tables across the fucking street. Its a major scam

I concur, the University shouldn't be providing junk like a Theater & Pool Table room.

People come to University to learn, not watch movies for fun or shoot pool!

Another form of excess / waste.

Those costs aren't even a fraction of the real wasteful spending on endless expansion, administration salaries, sports, etc.
---

Caution998 posted...

It's time people start looking elsewhere to advance their careers. Let the Colleges and Universities try and figure out where all their money went. They've gotten far too greedy. This is their fault, imo.

I concur.
---

DarkRoast posted...

Those costs aren't even a fraction of the real wasteful spending on endless expansion, administration salaries, sports, etc.

We've gotta open up their actual ledgers/accounting books and see where we can "CUT / CUT / CUT"
---

Student loans are like insurance. A scam.
---

DarkRoast posted...

Annihilated posted...

DarkRoast posted...

Blaming the lenders is just creating a scapegoat. As long as education costs this much, you'll have to take loans.

All of this started BECAUSE we started taking loans. If we stopped or severely restricted loans, colleges would have no choice but to lower tuitions and downsize their excessive administrative staff and other costs. There would still be options available to help lower income students like the Pell grant, but otherwise paying out of pocket is the way it should be.

Nope. Scapegoating.

If a college says "gee, people can take as much loans as they need, so let's exploit it," the lenders aren't to blame. It's the college for exploiting it.

That's not exploitation, that's business. By lending money to anyone and everyone, that greatly balloons the higher education market, and colleges only have so many open spots. It's simple supply and demand.

KamenRiderBlade posted...

Caution998 posted...

It's time people start looking elsewhere to advance their careers. Let the Colleges and Universities try and figure out where all their money went. They've gotten far too greedy. This is their fault, imo.

I concur.

I'm getting to the point where I'm starting to associate Colleges/Universities with how evil the oil companies are.
---

Annihilated posted...

DarkRoast posted...

Annihilated posted...

DarkRoast posted...

Blaming the lenders is just creating a scapegoat. As long as education costs this much, you'll have to take loans.

All of this started BECAUSE we started taking loans. If we stopped or severely restricted loans, colleges would have no choice but to lower tuitions and downsize their excessive administrative staff and other costs. There would still be options available to help lower income students like the Pell grant, but otherwise paying out of pocket is the way it should be.

Nope. Scapegoating.

If a college says "gee, people can take as much loans as they need, so let's exploit it," the lenders aren't to blame. It's the college for exploiting it.

That's not exploitation, that's business. By lending money to anyone and everyone, that greatly balloons the higher education market, and colleges only have so many open spots. It's simple supply and demand.

Colleges aren't a business. Certainly not public ones.

We, the public, literally collectively own them.

Maybe they should pay us dividends?
---

Caution998 posted...

I'm getting to the point where I'm starting to associate Colleges/Universities with how evil the oil companies are.

Getting to...?

They should be there if not worse!

It was Universities who forced Student Loans to be Debt Unforgivable and taken away from Private Lending Institutions where there was risk of failure and students might not be able to pay back the loans.
---

DarkRoast posted...

Colleges aren't a business. Certainly not public ones.

We, the public, literally collectively own them.

Maybe they should pay us dividends?

Maybe Privatize ALL colleges and make them accountable.

No more government protection!

Or highly regulate them so they can't become profiterring bastards indebting students for life.
---

There are two main cost drivers of higher education. One is the fault of universities and one isn't.

1) Do-it-all mentality
Universities try too hard to be everything for everyone. Most state universities have fully functioning hospitals, properties they manage, investment management departments, concert venues, and even rock climbing walls. By extending their reach this far, the added costs go towards tuition and fees. In many schools, fees are actually higher than tuition because of all these extra amenities. This could be fixed by having colleges specialize in specific areas again. Have medical colleges with the hospitals, have arts colleges with the large galleries and museums, etc.

2) Increasing regulations
This isn't the fault of universities. With every new year and every new legislation cycle, the government increases regulations, and thus reporting requirements, for universities. Things like the Clery Act require universities to create these reports that are thousands of pages to show every little thing that happens on their campuses, how they responded, what they are doing to be more efficient, etc. This is the government's way to have universities "justify" their existence. Yet the amount of work to collect, compile, analyze, summarize, and submit the data is what is causing all the added costs to hire new administrators and purchase the software systems required to do all of this.

I have worked at several universities where dozens of adminstrators' only task is keeping up with the increasing reporting requirements imposed by state and federal authorities.

The only way to fix this is a loosening of these regulations and allow colleges more flexibility and autonomy. Colleges are a lot more regulated than people believe.
---

Zanzenburger posted...

There are two main cost drivers of higher education. One is the fault of universities and one isn't.

1) Do-it-all mentality
Universities try too hard to be everything for everyone. Most state universities have fully functioning hospitals, properties they manage, investment management departments, concert venues, and even rock climbing walls. By extending their reach this far, the added costs go towards tuition and fees. In many schools, fees are actually higher than tuition because of all these extra amenities. This could be fixed by having colleges specialize in specific areas again. Have medical colleges with the hospitals, have arts colleges with the large galleries and museums, etc.

2) Increasing regulations
This isn't the fault of universities. With every new year and every new legislation cycle, the government increases regulations, and thus reporting requirements, for universities. Things like the Clery Act require universities to create these reports that are thousands of pages to show every little thing that happens on their campuses, how they responded, what they are doing to be more efficient, etc. This is the government's way to have universities "justify" their existence. Yet the amount of work to collect, compile, analyze, summarize, and submit the data is what is causing all the added costs to hire new administrators and purchase the software systems required to do all of this.

I have worked at several universities where dozens of adminstrators' only task is keeping up with the increasing reporting requirements imposed by state and federal authorities.

The only way to fix this is a loosening of these regulations and allow colleges more flexibility and autonomy. Colleges are a lot more regulated than people believe.

So force each College to specialize and simplify the regulations down to one set instead of two and loosen some unnecessary regulation?
---

Perhaps there should be some sort of discount program to reward people for pursuing education in more needed occupations. Put all that reporting and regulation to use.

Like say this coming year we have a shortage of mechanical engineers or internal medicine doctors or whatever. Companies and/or the government can provide incentives to the colleges to lower tuition for those programs. Either as funding, alumni care, or supplementing costs by providing training in the form of mentors or facilities/equipment. In return those companies get immediate access to graduated candidates.

When incentive for demand is backloaded on the employer like it is now, colleges can still charge whatever they want.
---

KamenRiderBlade posted...

So force each College to specialize and simplify the regulations down to one set instead of two and loosen some unnecessary regulation?

Very simple way to look at it, but basically yes.

It's no coincidence that the most successful colleges right now are those that serve a particular niche (like technology colleges, media colleges, teacher colleges, etc).

On the flip side, though, land grant institutions and flagship state colleges, with their hands in all these pots, are now so entrenched in their local economies that if you were to strip them of all these things, it would severely damage the economies of the cities that they are located (and the various suburbs that depend on the city's financial health). It's a delicate situation that would require very careful planning.
---

I dropped out of college after my 1st year in large part because of the ridiculous cost.
---

CapnMuffin posted...

Perhaps there should be some sort of discount program to reward people for pursuing education in more needed occupations. Put all that reporting and regulation to use.

Like say this coming year we have a shortage of mechanical engineers or internal medicine doctors or whatever. Companies and/or the government can provide incentives to the colleges to lower tuition for those programs. Either as funding, alumni care, or supplementing costs by providing training in the form of mentors or facilities/equipment. In return those companies get immediate access to graduated candidates.

When incentive for demand is backloaded on the employer like it is now, colleges can still charge whatever they want.

This is actually being done to an extent. Most scholarships and grants (i.e. not loans) are specifically for STEM fields. And these are funded by the government. You will find much more aid for schooling as a STEM student than as a non-STEM student. For example, international students who attend American universities are allowed to work one year after graduation with their F-1 university visa before they have to leave the country. However, if they came for a STEM degree, they are allowed 3 years instead.

The National Science Foundation is also giving out a crapton of grants to schools with successful STEM programs to use for student scholarships.
---

Can we also blame colleges for offering useless degrees?
---

Zanzenburger posted...

CapnMuffin posted...

Perhaps there should be some sort of discount program to reward people for pursuing education in more needed occupations. Put all that reporting and regulation to use.

Like say this coming year we have a shortage of mechanical engineers or internal medicine doctors or whatever. Companies and/or the government can provide incentives to the colleges to lower tuition for those programs. Either as funding, alumni care, or supplementing costs by providing training in the form of mentors or facilities/equipment. In return those companies get immediate access to graduated candidates.

When incentive for demand is backloaded on the employer like it is now, colleges can still charge whatever they want.

This is actually being done to an extent. Most scholarships and grants (i.e. not loans) are specifically for STEM fields. And these are funded by the government. You will find much more aid for schooling as a STEM student than as a non-STEM student. For example, international students who attend American universities are allowed to work one year after graduation with their F-1 university visa before they have to leave the country. However, if they came for a STEM degree, they are allowed 3 years instead.

The National Science Foundation is also giving out a crapton of grants to schools with successful STEM programs to use for student scholarships.

Thats good. Are just the government and foundations participating or do many employers participate as well?
---

TommyG663513 posted...

Can we also blame colleges for offering useless degrees?

Of course!

If your degree isn't in something practical, the Government and many institutions should not offer tuition / loans towards them.

We don't need more professional Philosophers.
---

TommyG663513 posted...

Can we also blame colleges for offering useless degrees?

How would we do this? By regulating what degrees colleges are "allowed" to offer?

KamenRiderBlade posted...

TommyG663513 posted...

Can we also blame colleges for offering useless degrees?

Of course!

If your degree isn't in something practical, the Government and many institutions should not offer tuition / loans towards them.

We don't need more professional Philosophers.

That seems a broad brushstroke.. saying the world doesn't need ANY more philosophers?

Ruvan22 posted...

How would we do this? By regulating what degrees colleges are "allowed" to offer?

Make sure governments and many other institutions only offer loans for degrees in useful fields like "Trade Skills", "STEM", practical fields.
---

Zanzenburger posted...

There are two main cost drivers of higher education. One is the fault of universities and one isn't.

1) Do-it-all mentality
Universities try too hard to be everything for everyone. Most state universities have fully functioning hospitals, properties they manage, investment management departments, concert venues, and even rock climbing walls. By extending their reach this far, the added costs go towards tuition and fees. In many schools, fees are actually higher than tuition because of all these extra amenities. This could be fixed by having colleges specialize in specific areas again. Have medical colleges with the hospitals, have arts colleges with the large galleries and museums, etc.

2) Increasing regulations
This isn't the fault of universities. With every new year and every new legislation cycle, the government increases regulations, and thus reporting requirements, for universities. Things like the Clery Act require universities to create these reports that are thousands of pages to show every little thing that happens on their campuses, how they responded, what they are doing to be more efficient, etc. This is the government's way to have universities "justify" their existence. Yet the amount of work to collect, compile, analyze, summarize, and submit the data is what is causing all the added costs to hire new administrators and purchase the software systems required to do all of this.

I have worked at several universities where dozens of adminstrators' only task is keeping up with the increasing reporting requirements imposed by state and federal authorities.

The only way to fix this is a loosening of these regulations and allow colleges more flexibility and autonomy. Colleges are a lot more regulated than people believe.

Regarding your first point, do you think the ideological college life to entrenched in people at this point?
I remember you work a lot with college kids. Do they expect all these amenities? Would a school lacking one cause them to not go to it?
---