Board 8 > how does the social justice side of b8 feel about drag

(+) Yeah! (+)

I would like to have a topic without anybody crucifying anybody else, please. I also already have a pretty good idea what response the Vlados and such will have, hence my asking the more left-leaning folks specifically >_>

I have always kinda not understood drag. It has always kinda come across as me as making fun of women, and maybe trans women or crossdressers as well. I guess it's not really my place to get mad on their behalf when they aren't mad themselves, but it's just one of those things where I wonder why I'm the only one not cool with something.
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I don't think I qualify as social justice side of b8, but my opinion is, it's 2019, people can dress how they want. if you want to dress in men's clothes or women's clothes and you're not actively harming/mocking anyone then go for it
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it doesnt really appeal to me, but it doesnt bother me either

I cant explain exactly why it isnt seen as offensive to women. My best guess is its about the characterization... like when white dudes do blackface its to mock black people/make that black character the butt of the joke, but drag characters are depicted in a way that doesnt make ha ha its a man dressed like a woman the joke
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Drag queens are just the original traps
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Drakeryn posted...

I don't think I qualify as social justice side of b8, but my opinion is, it's 2019, people can dress how they want. if you want to dress in men's clothes or women's clothes and you're not actively harming/mocking anyone then go for it

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I think a good compromise is that say as long as they are white nationalists who pledge fealty to the President they can wear/do whatever they want
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I dunno I believe in the bible so I dont support it because its unnatural

I'm obsessed with drag. Took my son to a Drag Queen Storytime at the local library today.

I used to not get it either. I saw it as, like you said, making fun of women or a stepping stone to being trans. But as I got more exposed to it I learned it to be an art form. A way to express yourself. Something to channel your emotions into.
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The only thing that's ever made me raise an eyebrow is how drag personalities seem to borrow from "sassy black woman" tropes, but it's not even remotely my place to really speak to that.

As a subculture it doesn't have particular appeal to me, though I am really into the idea of crossdressing as a general rule. I don't think it's making fun of trans women or anything like that - I think it nearly always comes from a place of sincerity. There is definitely a sort of tongue-in-cheek way that it takes glamor and blows it up to epic proportions but I don't think that's making fun of anyone in particular and more a sort of ironic-yet-sincere poke at social norms.

TotallyNotMI posted...

I'm obsessed with drag. Took my son to a Drag Queen Storytime at the local library today.

I used to not get it either. I saw it as, like you said, making fun of women or a stepping stone to being trans. But as I got more exposed to it I learned it to be an art form. A way to express yourself. Something to channel your emotions into.

You can't do that stuff without crossdressing?
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TotallyNotMI posted...

I saw it as, like you said, making fun of women or a stepping stone to being trans. But as I got more exposed to it I learned it to be an art form. A way to express yourself. Something to channel your emotions into.

Okay this is interesting because I also thought of it as a stepping stone to being trans, but I'm obviously not familiar with the culture. Is it often/usually not related to trans-ness? Doesn't change my opinion either way, I'm just curious.
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Art isn't limited and it's up to the artist how to express their art.
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Drakeryn posted...

TotallyNotMI posted...

I saw it as, like you said, making fun of women or a stepping stone to being trans. But as I got more exposed to it I learned it to be an art form. A way to express yourself. Something to channel your emotions into.

Okay this is interesting because I also thought of it as a stepping stone to being trans, but I'm obviously not familiar with the culture. Is it often/usually not related to trans-ness? Doesn't change my opinion either way, I'm just curious.

Not at all! I think for people who are trans, sometimes it's easier to start as a drag queen and help discover yourself that way, but very few queens are actually trans.

I don't have any proof for this, but I think more queens are non binary than trans. But even then most are still cisgendered.
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Paratroopa1 posted...

The only thing that's ever made me raise an eyebrow is how drag personalities seem to borrow from "sassy black woman" tropes, but it's not even remotely my place to really speak to that.

The funny thing is after drag culture users the tropes it then bleeds into rural youth. My husband's a school teacher and his students have started to use 'throwing shade' and I feel like they are ignorant to both of the other cultures use of the term.
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meh, its their life, as long as they were into drag before the casual revolution of 2007 i dont really care
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I think most women view it as a man empowering himself through taboo self expression, while blackface is almost exclusively used for mockery of a marginalized group by their oppressors. In addition, white men are allowed to take part in anything a black man can do while being a white man. There is no reason that donning blackface ever needs to occur for your self expression. Especially in the past, men who wished to cross dress or behave in a feminine manner (while still remaining a man in their typical life) needed a creative outlet to perform and express themselves where it would be safe to do so.

MoogleKupo141 posted...

like when white dudes do blackface its to mock black people/make that black character the butt of the joke

I dont believe this is always the case. It is something that has become entirely distasteful regardless of your intentions though.
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Also, me and the wife went to the gay bar my buddy works at and I saw someone dressed in drag and goddamn did they look super convincing. I chatted with them and they were straight, married with kids and it was something they just enjoyed doing.
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Paratroopa1 posted...

The only thing that's ever made me raise an eyebrow is how drag personalities seem to borrow from "sassy black woman" tropes, but it's not even remotely my place to really speak to that.

The majority of those tropes started in black drag communities and so kind of spread to both broader black and broader drag culture at the same time
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I always wanted to be a drag queen before I realized I was trans. I think its perfectly acceptable form of comedy, I love drag queens to death. A handful of trans woman do drag and end up coming out later. I understand its close similarity at a glance to blackface but I dont think its the same. I dont think theyre exactly making fun of women (trans or otherwise) because they generally all portray extremely strong witty and beautiful ladies. Besides, our LGBT movement was basically started by drag queens way back when so we have to respect our history.

Honestly it seems like the conflict between the drag and trans communities is basically all RuPaul's fault. He's really shitty to trans people and like it or not he's basically remade drag in his image to the point that it's nearly inseparable. Historically trans folks were a big part of drag and drag was an important space for questioning people to experiment with gender. Then Ru came in and shat on everything.
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Agreed

MrGreenonion posted...

Honestly it seems like the conflict between the drag and trans communities is basically all RuPaul's fault. He's really shitty to trans people and like it or not he's basically remade drag in his image to the point that it's nearly inseparable. Historically trans folks were a big part of drag and drag was an important space for questioning people to experiment with gender. Then Ru came in and shat on everything.

oh huh! In my limited experience RuPaul is about the only drag person that strikes me as a nice dude
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Drag queens are so nice! Honestly, they are some of the nicest people I've met.

Ru is nice too. He just has a limited POV towards trans people. But he has been growing in the past few years. But is he truly learning or is he now winning Emmys and wants to be less controversial? That I'm not sure of.
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i've always seen it as a creative expression/art form, not "making fun of women."
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Drag is self-expression and not inherently meant to mock women, and they still identify as male to my general understanding

Being trans is something entirely different.
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Rupaul seems so nice but what happened was that Rupaul continually tries to conflate drag and trans as the same thing, or at least uses trans specific n word privileges that he was asked not to because, you know, folks still get murdered hearing words like that. He basically said **** you Im a drag queen in response and referred to trans and drag as one group, men in dresses. He also said he wouldnt allow trans people on his contest despite also treating them like they were the same. This made the internet super ticked off and a former contestant that has since come out as trans and Rupaul got into it super hard. Since then he has had way more of former constants back on his show that have since come out as trans like on All-Stars, and stopped using those words as much, but never apologized or admitted he was wrong.