Current Events > tl;dr summary of the lootbox bill

(+) Yeah! (+)

This is all subject to change as legislators argue about it.

Only applies to games targeted to minors
a game is definined as targeted to minors if:
- it uses art or story designed to appeal to minors (e.g. Mario)
- it features casts of minor characters (lots of JRPGs)
- it features minor celebrities (the hannah montana game)
- it features adult celebrities that appeal to minors (Shaq Fu)
- it is known to the publisher that some of its players are minors (basically every game except for hentai games)

The bill does not permit age-gating
It applies if your game is targeted towards minors. Asking users to verify their age beforehand is not taken into consideration.

It only legislates pay to win mechanics
A pay to win mechanic is defined as
- Any content that increases accessibility or provides a competitive advantage (e.g. Darth Vader)
- Permits accomplishing difficult tasks in an easier fashion (pay to complete now or wait 20 hours)
- Is required to achieve certain milestones or objectives (it's impossible to defeat this boss in 15 seconds for this reward unless you have this specific item)
- It generally changes gameplay or features of the game available to players

pay to win mechanics are exempt from this bill if it meets one of the following criteria
- It is a new stage or mode (COD Map Packs)
- It does not change competitive advantage (new characters in a MOBA, so long as they are balanced with there rest of the roster)

pay to win mechanics which do provide a competitive advantage are permitted if it meets all of the following criteria
- The advantage is not mandatory for ANY content, including achievements
- It costs a fixed, non variable amount for all players (no random loot boxes, only al-a-carte purchasing)
- The purchase of the content is not required to compete
- The purchase can only be purchased once (i.e. no consumable potion buffs)

it is NOT a ban on loot boxes so long as...
- The loot boxes contain only cosmetic modifications OR
- The loot boxes are in a game that is not defined as targeted towards minors
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Wish it did more but overall good.
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Hope it fails so a Democrat can push it forward with real teeth sandile
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Good

Fuck lootboxes
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So gachas on mobile will still be a thing. FML.
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If this passes, will it kill electronic versions of CCGs? (MTG Online/Arena, Hearthstone, Warhammer, Pokemon, etc)

Cuz I really like MTGA, ngl, though building decks as a free player takes awhile, especially if you're new or bad
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Loot box gambling is the biggest thing that needs to be banned, until that happens, this means fuck all and won't change mtx implementation, in fact- it'll encourage cherrypicking MORE content to put behind a gambling wall

Good to see this doesn't affect warframe at all.
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I can agree with the "Fuck Lootboxes" but this is a bad law.
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Alkaloid posted...

If this passes, will it kill electronic versions of CCGs? (MTG Online/Arena, Hearthstone, Warhammer, Pokemon, etc)

Cuz I really like MTGA, ngl, though building decks as a free player takes awhile, especially if you're new or bad

MTG is the longest running scam in history
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Tyranthraxus posted...

it is known to the publisher that some of its players are minors (basically every game except for hentai games)

Simple workaround:

Are YGO booster packs considered lootboxes?
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Questionmarktarius posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

it is known to the publisher that some of its players are minors (basically every game except for hentai games)

Simple workaround:

This has traditionally been a death sentence for games.
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MarqueeSeries posted...

Good

Fuck lootboxes

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Veggeta X posted...

Are YGO booster packs considered lootboxes?

Yes.

Alkaloid posted...

If this passes, will it kill electronic versions of CCGs? (MTG Online/Arena, Hearthstone, Warhammer, Pokemon, etc)

Cuz I really like MTGA, ngl, though building decks as a free player takes awhile, especially if you're new or bad

The current forms will cease to exist. They can adopt a LCG model like how FFG does their card games and probably be okay.

Veggeta X posted...

So gachas on mobile will still be a thing. FML.

Not if this bill passes.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

This has traditionally been a death sentence for games.

But, this may finally force de-stigmatization of AO.

...however the more likely scenario is a whole 'nother "Rated C for Cash" rating, which is functionally identical but without porn.

Tyranthraxus posted...

The current forms will cease to exist. They can adopt a LCG model like how FFG does their card games and probably be okay.

Yeah, how would this work kecleon?
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Tyranthraxus posted...

This has traditionally been a death sentence for games.

Not when all the games that are currently rated T or M go to AO.
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To the people saying they wish it did more: what more do you want it to do? It already seems to cover the majority of microtransactions out there
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kirbymuncher posted...

To the people saying they wish it did more: what more do you want it to do? It already seems to cover the majority of microtransactions out there

Only applies to games targeted to minors
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Goats posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

The current forms will cease to exist. They can adopt a LCG model like how FFG does their card games and probably be okay.

Yeah, how would this work kecleon?

Sell singles, or entire sets.

The important parts of a TCG happen after spending a shitton of money for chase rares, at least from a player's perspective.

Goats posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

The current forms will cease to exist. They can adopt a LCG model like how FFG does their card games and probably be okay.

Yeah, how would this work kecleon?

FFG's LCG card games boosters have predetermined cards that are known to you ahead of time.

i.e. if you're looking for a specific card, you can just look up the card on a website somewhere and it'll tell you which booster pack you have to buy to get it. The boosters will contain 3 of each copy of every card in it so you only ever need to buy one booster to get the maximum amount of cards you can use in a deck.
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The last point about targetted toward minors and the point against age gating make "targetted toward minors" a blanket term that catches almost every game on the market
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That kinda works against limited format though, which needs randomized packs to build your deck out of. Will that be affected scyther?
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kirbymuncher posted...

The last point about targetted toward minors and the point against age gating make "targetted toward minors" a blanket term that catches almost every game on the market

age gating just isn't mentioned in the bill. It doesn't explicitly ban age gating, just that there's no special exemptions for doing it.

The bill was just proposed, it will probably be modified to allow age gating exemptions but as it is written now it does not.
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kirbymuncher posted...

The last point about targetted toward minors and the point against age gating make "targetted toward minors" a blanket term that catches almost every game on the market

That apparently just means you can't make a "Cuddly Awesome Friends!" free-to-wait game, and then use a "must be 18" as a CYA when Little Billy runs up $10K of gems on mommy's credit card anyway.

"AO or GTFO" seems to be the only endgame here.
Now it's a faustian bargain where your choices are microtransactions or squeakers.

Goats posted...

That kinda works against limited format though, which needs randomized packs to build your deck out of. Will that be affected scyther?

drafts will have to be retooled to be free but you don't get to keep the random cards you open. They can make you pay just to access the mode at all however.
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This is stupid. We don't need the government deciding what can and can't be in video games. If you don't like these pay-to-win games, just don't play them.
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Well, age gate line aside, I don't see how any publisher can realistically and truthfully say there are no minors playing their game unless they are very watchful / strict about every single sale or registration
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Also re:drafts in card games amd similar stuff: I assume this only applies to actual real money, which means you can still charge ingame currency that has absolutely no ties to actual money?
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kirbymuncher posted...

Also re:drafts in card games amd similar stuff: I assume this only applies to actual real money, which means you can still charge ingame currency that has absolutely no ties to actual money?

Yes, this doesn't apply to fake money like Diablo shards or whatever. Only real money and virtual money purchased with real money.

kirbymuncher posted...

Well, age gate line aside, I don't see how any publisher can realistically and truthfully say there are no minors playing their game unless they are very watchful / strict about every single sale or registration

There is no age gate line in the bill. I'm explaining that because it doesn't say you can age gate, it's not likely that age gating mechanisms will be allowed to circumvent this bill.

Manocheese posted...

We don't need the government deciding what can and can't be in video games.

Yeah apparently we do because the problem has only gotten worse over time.

Obviously the government shouldn't be allowed to dictate the content of those video games but they should be allowed to dictate financial regulations like they already fucking do with every other product in the country.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

Obviously the government shouldn't be allowed to dictate the content of those video games but they should be allowed to dictate financial regulations like they already fucking do with every other product in the country.

This.

This is an interstate commerce issue, not a 1st amendment one.

Ex-Kefiroth posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

- It does not change competitive advantage (new characters in a MOBA, so long as they are balanced with there rest of the roster)

Lol, we're going to end up with lawyers in court arguing the balance of video game characters like a bunch of nerds.

There's "reasonable" clauses in the bill. Someone who does like 10% extra DPS probably doesn't matter. Someone who instantly kills other players is not reasonable.
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Ex-Kefiroth posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

- It does not change competitive advantage (new characters in a MOBA, so long as they are balanced with there rest of the roster)

Lol, we're going to end up with lawyers in court arguing the balance of video game characters like a bunch of nerds.

Simple solution: no more DLC characters in online games.

Really wish it would just flat ban any mechanic that allows real money to be spent on a random-chance item.

Go scorched earth on everything lol
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AlisLandale posted...

Really wish it would just flat ban any mechanic that allows real money to be spent on a random-chance item.

Go scorched earth on everything lol

This is honestly the simplest answer. No loop holes. No evaluation of bullshit. No minor bullshit.

Just "you cannot sell a random item of any type for real money"
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But how does this affect sports games?
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AlisLandale posted...

Really wish it would just flat ban any mechanic that allows real money to be spent on a random-chance item.

I'm not totally against this but at the same time I cannot personally justify supporting this while not supporting a blanket ban on gambling in general which I don't think is at all realistic
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kirbymuncher posted...

AlisLandale posted...

Really wish it would just flat ban any mechanic that allows real money to be spent on a random-chance item.

I'm not totally against this but at the same time I cannot personally justify supporting this while not supporting a blanket ban on gambling in general which I don't think is at all realistic

Not sure why you think that's unrealistic. Lots of countries have made gambling completely illegal. Japan is one of them.
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The-Apostle posted...

But how does this affect sports games?

It basically kills Madden Ulttimate Team and similar modes in other games.

kirbymuncher posted...

AlisLandale posted...

Really wish it would just flat ban any mechanic that allows real money to be spent on a random-chance item.

I'm not totally against this but at the same time I cannot personally justify supporting this while not supporting a blanket ban on gambling in general which I don't think is at all realistic

But with actual gambling, they can age gate because you have to be of age just to get into a casino. With games, people can just buy a game with loot boxes and give it to their kid to play.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

it is known to the publisher that some of its players are minors (basically every game except for hentai games)

Simple workaround:

This has traditionally been a death sentence for games.

Couldn't they bypass this with a simple "M" rating? I don't think they need to go full AO.
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s0nicfan posted...

Couldn't they bypass this with a simple "M" rating? I don't think they need to go full AO.

ESRB rating has no legal enforcement and is non compulsory to either adhere or to participate in.
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This is too weak, it needs to go harder on the offensive. Legislating only pay-to-win lootboxes is a small part of the problem when it needs to attack most lootboxs/microtransactions across all platforms, including gacha and gambling ala CS:GO, etc., save for purely cosmetic items. I really hope they add some legitimate teeth to this bill, because right now it feels like it's barely got any bite to it.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

Obviously the government shouldn't be allowed to dictate the content of those video games but they should be allowed to dictate financial regulations like they already fucking do with every other product in the country.

This is what I always say to people who make the argument of "government shouldn't be involved!"

The gaming industry had their chances to fix themselves but decided not to do so because of $$$$$
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GallisOTK posted...

It basically kills Madden Ulttimate Team and similar modes in other games.

Good. Now they (mostly just EA since 2k already does >_>) can let us put legends in franchise mode where they belong.
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EverDownward posted...

This is too weak, it needs to go harder on the offensive. Legislating only pay-to-win lootboxes is a small part of the problem when it needs to attack lootbox/microtransaction save for purely cosmetic items. I really hope they add some legitimate teeth to this bill, because right now it feels like it's barely got any bite to it.

For the most part it makes anything that you can buy multiple times illegal unless it's cosmetic.

That's pretty solid.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Couldn't they bypass this with a simple "M" rating? I don't think they need to go full AO.

ESRB rating has no legal enforcement and is non compulsory to either adhere or to participate in.

Right, but if this bill affects games "targeted towards minors" couldn't they make the argument that their M-rated game isn't by nature of the rating, and that while they can't stop children from buying it, if they were aiming at children they would have aimed for a lower rating?
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Yeah I think the "targeted towards minors" part is going to be the loophole a lot of gaming companies are gonna try to exploit. They should just make it so that you can't spend money on random items.
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