Current Events > tl;dr summary of the lootbox bill

(+) Yeah! (+)

Companies like EA do have a choice and consent, though. They either incorporate in the US, or choose to sell their games in the US market. They aren't just born at random.
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How did this topic go from laughing at EA to this pseudo sovereign citizen horseshit?
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Forreal lol either way these companies wont stop trying to monetize their games just because you take away lootboxes, we'll just start seeing way more egregious methods. And then more regulations. And then what?
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Antifar posted...

Companies like EA do have a choice and consent, though. They either incorporate in the US, or choose to sell their games in the US market. They aren't just born at random.

Bingo.

Corporations are government violence. Stop buying into their rhetoric, ancaps.

I may have missed it in the first post, but does this apply only to video games and not something like physical CCGs?

Blocking pay-to-win lootboxes is a good start though, but I wish it would block anything electronic and random requiring real money.
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Smashingpmkns posted...

Forreal lol either way these companies wont stop trying to monetize their games just because you take away lootboxes, we'll just start seeing way more egregious methods. And then more regulations. And then what?

And then it'll be like basically every other industry.
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Intro2Logic posted...

Smashingpmkns posted...

Forreal lol either way these companies wont stop trying to monetize their games just because you take away lootboxes, we'll just start seeing way more egregious methods. And then more regulations. And then what?

And then it'll be like basically every other industry.

It'll probably be worse
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Mr Hangman posted...

What choice? There isn't one.

Go off the grid. That is a choice you can make that grants you freedom that you can fully consent to.

Otherwise, you exist within a society, and agree to follow its rules, or change them within the confines the system allows you to. But the groundwork has to exist, and you seem to not grasp that groundwork must exist, and rules must exist, they must be enforceable, and that the reason the "state gobbles everything up" is because that's how real life works: Systems exist, innately, as part of humanity.

For EA's case, they very clearly chose to exist within the United States as a corporate entity, meaning they consented to many rules, willingly, knowing full well how the state works. Your arguments are ridiculous applied on the individual level (because it lacks awareness about how humans work) but it's totally nonsensical when you're trying to use those ideas to defend businesses that clearly consented.
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Smashingpmkns posted...

There's also tons of successful games that do have lootboxes, and now they're going to find a different way to monetize those games which will effect people that don't partake in microtransactions.

So the EA, 2K, Activision, Ubisoft, whatever F2P companies, Bethesda, etc companies that have products that a lot of people enjoy will most likely find another way to monetize their games. This is the reality of this going through. How do you think they will monetize them?

That pretty much doesn't fucking matter. If they're monetized in a way that's not random, it'll still be an improvement. If I have to pay $500 to unlock everything I want, that's good information that I can use to decide if I want to spend that kind of money or not.

If I have to spend a random amount between $0 and $10,000 and won't know how much until after I make the purchase, that's bullshit.
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Mr Hangman posted...

It's not a choice you can make nor is it one you should have to make. The law doesn't say "unless you 'go off the grid'", whatever the hell that means. Nor is society synonymous with force monopoly and threatening people who aren't hurting you or anyone else.

You said that any act from the government is an act of violence

By this definition, society is, in fact, synonymous with force monopoly. All societies have authority, hierarchy, and enforcement, and have had this since the dawn of time

"Go off the grid" means you can choose to not exist in an area that is controlled by a government. It's a choice you can absolutely make. Now, it's not efficient, but maybe that should clue you into the fact that having a society with rules is a good thing.

EA "chooses" to exist as a corporate entity

So EA consented to all of this and therefor this is all fine. Okay, got it
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Tyranthraxus posted...

Smashingpmkns posted...

There's also tons of successful games that do have lootboxes, and now they're going to find a different way to monetize those games which will effect people that don't partake in microtransactions.

So the EA, 2K, Activision, Ubisoft, whatever F2P companies, Bethesda, etc companies that have products that a lot of people enjoy will most likely find another way to monetize their games. This is the reality of this going through. How do you think they will monetize them?

That pretty much doesn't fucking matter. If they're monetized in a way that's not random, it'll still be an improvement. If I have to pay $500 to unlock everything I want, that's good information that I can use to decide if I want to spend that kind of money or not.

If I have to spend a random amount between $0 and $10,000 and won't know how much until after I make the purchase, that's bullshit.

And when that doesn't bring in the money expected what happens? Actual content behind paywalls, increased retail prices, plenty of ways they could be more egregious than lootboxes.
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Smashingpmkns posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

Smashingpmkns posted...

There's also tons of successful games that do have lootboxes, and now they're going to find a different way to monetize those games which will effect people that don't partake in microtransactions.

So the EA, 2K, Activision, Ubisoft, whatever F2P companies, Bethesda, etc companies that have products that a lot of people enjoy will most likely find another way to monetize their games. This is the reality of this going through. How do you think they will monetize them?

That pretty much doesn't fucking matter. If they're monetized in a way that's not random, it'll still be an improvement. If I have to pay $500 to unlock everything I want, that's good information that I can use to decide if I want to spend that kind of money or not.

If I have to spend a random amount between $0 and $10,000 and won't know how much until after I make the purchase, that's bullshit.

And when that doesn't bring in the money expected what happens? Actual content behind paywalls, increased retail prices, plenty of ways they could be more egregious than lootboxes.

And what is stopping them from doing that in the near future?
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Smashingpmkns posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

Smashingpmkns posted...

There's also tons of successful games that do have lootboxes, and now they're going to find a different way to monetize those games which will effect people that don't partake in microtransactions.

So the EA, 2K, Activision, Ubisoft, whatever F2P companies, Bethesda, etc companies that have products that a lot of people enjoy will most likely find another way to monetize their games. This is the reality of this going through. How do you think they will monetize them?

That pretty much doesn't fucking matter. If they're monetized in a way that's not random, it'll still be an improvement. If I have to pay $500 to unlock everything I want, that's good information that I can use to decide if I want to spend that kind of money or not.

If I have to spend a random amount between $0 and $10,000 and won't know how much until after I make the purchase, that's bullshit.

And when that doesn't bring in the money expected what happens? Actual content behind paywalls, increased retail prices, plenty of ways they could be more egregious than lootboxes.

They fundamentally can't be. The appeal of loot boxes is that there's a chance you can get what you want for free.

Once pricing becomes deterministic, it is no longer a gamble but just a decision if the content you're trying to purchase is worth it or not.

It takes around $7,000 to buy all train simulator content. But it's a fixed price. Maybe I don't want all the content and only buy $300 worth. Maybe I do want all the content and if that's worth a $7,000 purchase then that's still my decision.

When it's random, it's no longer my decision. The random algorithm decides how much I have to spend and doesn't tell me. I can only choose to spend or not spend. I can't decide if it's worth the money I have to spend. I can only decide that I've lost enough money not getting what I wanted.
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Manocheese posted...

This is stupid. We don't need the government deciding what can and can't be in video games. If you don't like these pay-to-win games, just don't play them.

These are the worst type of replies. Above the responses that address this point I want to point out what a bad mentality this is. When more games utilize game design makes you have to arbitrarily grind more so as to strong arm you into paying, just dont play any of those games. It means less well designed and good games to play for everyone. Where before a game was made to entertain you, not designed to milk you around every corner.

Look at the first angry birds game versus these newer ones. Theyre sending so much of your info to third parties the phone battery drains more than it does playing other full 3D games with serious graphics. And you need to pay to do well, not be actually good (unless you put in hours instead of money to get some petty thing another game gives you the equivalent of for free). Those could have been better games, but theyre unplayable piles of steaming crap now. This also screws over devs who make good games that are not free to play, as the market gets saturated with easy alternatives that have some super shady manipulation built into them.

Mr Hangman posted...

Societies that don't have that kind of hierarchical power relations have and do exist, but not in any notable size or length of time

because

get this

they don't work lmao

really easy to blame "muh state" when your fantasy reality you got from binging molyneux vids doesn't work out
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by the way, Hangman, an AnCap society is unsustainable because a profit-driven society is inherently hierarchical because a class system is the forced result. It will become a government-run society controlled by corporate entities with nothing to stop them from monopolizing because they hold all the wealth and thus can execute their will on the populace.

supporting dystopia futures to protect my lootboxes to own the statists
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Tyranthraxus posted...

They fundamentally can't be. The appeal of loot boxes is that there's a chance you can get what you want for free.

Once pricing becomes deterministic, it is no longer a gamble but just a decision if the content you're trying to purchase is worth it or not.

It takes around $7,000 to buy all train simulator content. But it's a fixed price. Maybe I don't want all the content and only buy $300 worth. Maybe I do want all the content and if that's worth a $7,000 purchase then that's still my decision.

When it's random, it's no longer my decision. The random algorithm decides how much I have to spend and doesn't tell me. I can only choose to spend or not spend. I can't decide if it's worth the money I have to spend. I can only decide that I've lost enough money not getting what I wanted.

It definitely could be worse. There's a chance that it could effect all players and not just those that partake in microtransactions. sure you get to decide if you want to buy those games at that point, but you also got to decide whether or not you wanted to buy a game with microtransactions as well.

And shit like increased retail prices, base game content locked behind paywalls, etc has happened before with popular games. Now it'll just happen more often.
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Zero_Destroyer posted...

by the way, Hangman, an AnCap society is unsustainable because a profit-driven society is inherently hierarchical because a class system is the forced result. It will become a government-run society controlled by corporate entities with nothing to stop them from monopolizing because they hold all the wealth and thus can execute their will on the populace.

supporting dystopia futures to protect my lootboxes to own the statists

Well, you typically get violent revolutions before it gets that bad. Then you can enjoy decades of terrorism, mass executions, militias, and all that other fun stuff. But when you were a great power before that, it also often means other powers are looking to speed the process up. But hey, all other previous empires fell eventually, and if they had anything in common, it was the idea that they would be the ones who wouldnt.

Smashingpmkns posted...

There's a chance

No. There isn't. That's literally the fucking point of this bill is to get rid of "chance"

A game having an absurd cost is fine, having an unknown cost left up to chance is not.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

Smashingpmkns posted...

There's a chance

No. There isn't. That's literally the fucking point of this bill is to get rid of "chance"

A game having an absurd cost is fine, having an unknown cost left up to chance is not.

Lol how literal. A game having an absurd price is not fine, and games having an absurd price becoming the norm is worse for the consumer than microtransactions. Microtransactions, while bad, are completely optional. Increasing the price or putting base game content behind paywalls remove the option.
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Smashingpmkns posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

Smashingpmkns posted...

There's a chance

No. There isn't. That's literally the fucking point of this bill is to get rid of "chance"

A game having an absurd cost is fine, having an unknown cost left up to chance is not.

Lol how literal. A game having an absurd price is not fine, and games having an absurd price becoming the norm is worse for the consumer than microtransactions. Microtransactions, while bad, are completely optional. Increasing the price or putting base game content behind paywalls remove the option.

Nah. Absurd price games are a clear advantage because all games with a fixed price eventually go down in price. You can buy Skyrim + all dlc today for less than vanilla cost in 2011.

Loot boxes is just a non-stop money sink.
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XD XD XD XD XD XD XD Why are yall even humouring him lmao he is obviously a troll or insane hahahahaha
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lel who invited the ancap


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why are we talking about ancaps again
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Mr Hangman posted...

I didn't say anything about AnCap. Funny how everyone assumes anything that isn't statist bootlicking must be ancap.

"The government doing anything is violence"

"Why do you think I'm an ancap! I just hate the state, authority/enforcement, and hierarchy, and think corporations should be left to their own devices!"

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
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Veggeta X posted...

So gachas on mobile will still be a thing. FML.

gacha units/equipments are typically stronger than free-to-play alternatives so that should count as pay-to-win, which means gacha games are fucked.
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in before someone says cosmetics are okay

PiOverlord posted...

Can this help me nail Nintendo for their Mario Kart Tour p2w?!?

yes
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MwarriorHiei posted...

Veggeta X posted...

So gachas on mobile will still be a thing. FML.

gacha units/equipments are typically stronger than free-to-play alternatives so that should count as pay-to-win, which means gacha games are fucked.

Gacha is fucked because it's gacha. You're not allowed to have random game content purchases so even if they were worse than the free units it would still be illegal under this bill.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

MwarriorHiei posted...

Veggeta X posted...

So gachas on mobile will still be a thing. FML.

gacha units/equipments are typically stronger than free-to-play alternatives so that should count as pay-to-win, which means gacha games are fucked.

Gacha is fucked because it's gacha. You're not allowed to have random game content purchases so even if they were worse than the free units it would still be illegal under this bill.

Thank heavens.
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Damn_Underscore posted...

Wish it did more but overall good.

This. Better than I expected, but could go further. It's not bad, though.
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