Current Events > Gaming Industry is Worried about the U.S. Senator's Anti Loot Box Bill

(+) Yeah! (+)

interesting. i guess because its a video game it never crossed my mind about the scratcher comparison. "both are a fool and his money" to me.
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Ricemills posted...

so back to "are you over 18" check box again?

No. You don't get to make a game like Marvel Strike Force and claim it's for adults because you added a checkbox. That's not how the law is written specifically because of that shit.
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TheGreatGeno326 posted...

ultimate reaver posted...

every single time the government has attempted to legislate morality in games it's been with catastrophic implications and people fought them tooth and nail at the mere prospect because they could see the doors that it opened.

i suppose somewhere along the way we lost the power of foresight because nothing good will come from this and so many people are so pitifully complacent about it. it's a shame

EndOfDiscOne posted...

This is bad for freedom

Found the guys who spends half their paychecks on microtransactions

I dont think Ive ever played a game with loot boxes. I support dumbasses decisions to blow their money however they want, and developers decisions to put these in their games.
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GasMonkey posted...

interesting. i guess because its a video game it never crossed my mind about the scratcher comparison. "both are a fool and his money" to me.

Scratch offs are already regulated as gambling so agreeing with the comparison has a darker outlook than this law does.
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I don't like microtransactions, but I'm not sure "Hey, who cares about the implications, they make games worse!" is a meaningful argument for the bill.
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Anteaterking posted...

I don't like microtransactions, but I'm not sure "Hey, who cares about the implications, they make games worse!" is a meaningful argument for the bill.

It's not. That's an argument meaningful to me and you. This bill is arguing that it's to protect minors.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

It's not. That's an argument meaningful to me and you.

I know that's not what the bill is saying, it's what you said.
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Anteaterking posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

It's not. That's an argument meaningful to me and you.

I know that's not what the bill is saying, it's what you said.

Because I was asked why someone should care about lootboxes if they don't play games that feature them.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

That's nice. Have you considered thinking about people other than yourself for a minute or two?

I have no idea how you could take a post where I'm saying that clearly there are a lot of people involved in the situation and not one universal opinion and somehow manage to twist that around to "have you considered not being selfish," but clearly there's something real special going on there
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Eh you could argue that lootboxes means you get free DLC if you aren't personally tempted by them. I quite liked how it worked in Mass Effect 3. I'm not sure how a few F2P games will survive without them either.

I'm not a big multiplayer guy though.
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Darmik posted...

Eh you could argue that lootboxes means you get free DLC if you aren't personally tempted by them. I quite liked how it worked in Mass Effect 3. I'm not sure how a few F2P games will survive without them either.

I'm not a big multiplayer guy though.

I'd much rather play a p2p game than a shitty f2p/p2w one
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ultimate reaver posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

That's nice. Have you considered thinking about people other than yourself for a minute or two?

I have no idea how you could take a post where I'm saying that clearly there are a lot of people involved in the situation and not one universal opinion and somehow manage to twist that around to "have you considered not being selfish," but clearly there's something real special going on there

Your entire post is a giant paragraph explaining how you doing care because it doesn't affect you and you wouldn't care even if it did.

Well I care how it affects other people. It's wrong and predatory. I don't smoke, will never smoke, don't ever have to go to a smoking area, but that doesn't mean I can't take issue with tobacco business for its morally repugnant practices.
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Something about this seems suspicious. Not a gamer, has no children that have been affected by this and specifically going for lootboxes in games for children. Which games are going to be affected by this, exactly?

This seems like a move specifically to manipulate falsely worried parents inro vouching for this politician and bolstering his own career.
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Vita_Aeterna posted...

Which games are going to be affected by this, exactly?

Like I said earlier

Tyranthraxus posted...

This bill only affects minor oriented games which are defined as games designed to appeal to minors through use of artwork, age of characters, featuring minor celebrities OR adult celebrities that appeal to minors (like Mr. Rogers or something), OR any game to where it is known to the publisher that some players are under 18.

In short, it pretty much affects everything worth playing except for hentai games.

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u mad Gaming Industry?
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Tyranthraxus posted...

Your entire post is a giant paragraph explaining how you doing care because it doesn't affect you and you wouldn't care even if it did.

Weird, it's strange how you conveniently leave out the fact that the reason I wouldn't care if it affected me is because lots of other people are fine with it and my opinion of not liking them hardly supersedes a pretty divided issue that hardly leads to a detrimental situation one way or the other

It's almost like you're being disingenuous
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Turns out there's really not much to worry about. Won't impact cosmetics so all they need to do is stop locking better weapons and characters behind this shit.

https://www.kotaku.com.au/2019/05/you-can-now-read-the-proposed-senate-bill-that-would-ban-loot-boxes-in-games-aimed-at-kids/

The text of Hawleys bill was released today. It defines a pay-to-win microtransaction as one that:

... with respect to an interactive digital entertainment product that, from the perspective of a reasonable user of the product, is a game offering a scoring system, a set of goals to achieve, a set of rewards, or a sense of interactive progression through the products content including but not limited to narrative progression

(I) eases a users progression through content otherwise available within the game without the purchase of such transaction;

(II) assists a user in accomplishing an achievement within the game that can otherwise be accomplished without the purchase of such transaction;

(III) assists a user in receiving an award associated with the game that is otherwise available in association with the game without the purchase of such transaction; or

(IV) permits a user to continue to access content of the game that had previously been accessible to the user but has been made inaccessible after the expiration of a timer or a number of gameplay attempts; or

(ii) with respect to an interactive digital entertainment product that, from the perspective of a reasonable user of the product, is a game featuring competition with other users, provides a user with a competitive advantage with respect to the games competitive aspects over users who do not make such a transaction.

The prohibited microtransactions would not include higher difficulty modes, cosmetic items or add-on content.

The affected microtransactions, along with lootboxes, would be barred from minor-oriented games. Which games would those be? The bill does not refer to game ratings such as E or T and instead defines the targeted games as those for which the target audience is individuals under the age of 18. Games that are played by adults could be viewed as highly appealing to minors and could be impacted.

https://www.hawley.senate.gov/sites/default/files/2019-05/Loot-Box-Bill-Text.pdf
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Darmik posted...

Turns out there's really not much to worry about. Won't impact cosmetics so all they need to do is stop locking better weapons and characters behind this shit.

https://www.kotaku.com.au/2019/05/you-can-now-read-the-proposed-senate-bill-that-would-ban-loot-boxes-in-games-aimed-at-kids/

The text of Hawleys bill was released today. It defines a pay-to-win microtransaction as one that:

... with respect to an interactive digital entertainment product that, from the perspective of a reasonable user of the product, is a game offering a scoring system, a set of goals to achieve, a set of rewards, or a sense of interactive progression through the products content including but not limited to narrative progression

(I) eases a users progression through content otherwise available within the game without the purchase of such transaction;

(II) assists a user in accomplishing an achievement within the game that can otherwise be accomplished without the purchase of such transaction;

(III) assists a user in receiving an award associated with the game that is otherwise available in association with the game without the purchase of such transaction; or

(IV) permits a user to continue to access content of the game that had previously been accessible to the user but has been made inaccessible after the expiration of a timer or a number of gameplay attempts; or

(ii) with respect to an interactive digital entertainment product that, from the perspective of a reasonable user of the product, is a game featuring competition with other users, provides a user with a competitive advantage with respect to the games competitive aspects over users who do not make such a transaction.

The prohibited microtransactions would not include higher difficulty modes, cosmetic items or add-on content.

The affected microtransactions, along with lootboxes, would be barred from minor-oriented games. Which games would those be? The bill does not refer to game ratings such as E or T and instead defines the targeted games as those for which the target audience is individuals under the age of 18. Games that are played by adults could be viewed as highly appealing to minors and could be impacted.

https://www.hawley.senate.gov/sites/default/files/2019-05/Loot-Box-Bill-Text.pdf

These are some nice specifications. I was a bit worried before for how broad the bill seemed to be but these are good lines that are drawn. Some this seems to apply to Pokemons mystery gift which Id also like to see go but since you dont technically pay for anything it probably wont be affected.
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Doom_Art posted...

Even if that's not the case, I would prefer this bill fail, since I'd rather see a Democrat get this win instead

You're what's wrong with politics. Why do you do this?
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Lootboxes deserve to die.
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After reading the bill, I 100% support. Fuck the AAA industry
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Doom_Art posted...

Knowing the GOP I'm gonna guess this bill sounds good but has some awful shit tucked away in it.

Even if that's not the case, I would prefer this bill fail, since I'd rather see a Democrat get this win instead

What the fuck
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As a day 1 Fire Emblem Heroes player who hasn't spent a dime on the game but loves it dear, all I can say is, GOOD.
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Just curious going by those rules what games would even be impacted? I'm not even sure if Battlefront 2 would be impacted. Maybe the stuff with unlocking Jedi would be where the line would get drawn there but I don't know how that would work.

I think FIFA Ultimate Team would be hit by it which is good.
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TennTux posted...

Doom_Art posted...

Knowing the GOP I'm gonna guess this bill sounds good but has some awful shit tucked away in it.

Even if that's not the case, I would prefer this bill fail, since I'd rather see a Democrat get this win instead

What the fuck

I hope he's shit posting, because this is bipartisan as fuck. It was originally brought up by a Democrat to the Federal Trade Commission and is now being made into a bill by a Republican. This is basically something both parties can agree on as well as the majority of gamers. The only people who should hate this bill are the giant companies that solely rely on predatory practices like these.
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The scummy game industry is one group that from what I understand has few to no lobbyists in Washington. Never needed them. Plus most of the old goats in office wouldn't understand any aspect of gaming if their lives depended on it.

They do understand illegal gambling and kids being taken advantage of. And parents getting these charges.

So my guess is that this bill would have a pretty high chance of bipartisan passing.

And good.
Fuck the soulless money sucking predatory game developers like Activision and EA. Fuck the AAA gaming cancer in general.
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TheGreatGeno326 posted...

I can't believe theres a republican bill I actually support

First time for everything

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Darmik posted...

Just curious going by those rules what games would even be impacted? I'm not even sure if Battlefront 2 would be impacted. Maybe the stuff with unlocking Jedi would be where the line would get drawn there but I don't know how that would work.

I think FIFA Ultimate Team would be hit by it which is good.

based on ratings, id say anything with loot boxes is impacted since the bill is for anything that targets people younger than 18. aiming for a M rating means you are targeting 17 year olds so adding lootboxes means an automatic AO rating.

but the bill doesnt mention ratings so i wonder how thatll work out.
/shrug
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EndOfDiscOne posted...

I support dumbasses decisions to blow their money however they want, and developers decisions to put these in their games.

But these do affect you by making the game more of a grind. Say the game was designed with item X having a 10% drop rate to get. Would take you a while, but you will eventually get it. However, now the game has put that item in a loot box and dropped open world acquistion of it down to 0.2%. Your progress has been affected because of the loot box system.
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loafy013 posted...

EndOfDiscOne posted...

I support dumbasses decisions to blow their money however they want, and developers decisions to put these in their games.

But these do affect you by making the game more of a grind. Say the game was designed with item X having a 10% drop rate to get. Would take you a while, but you will eventually get it. However, now the game has put that item in a loot box and dropped open world acquistion of it down to 0.2%. Your progress has been affected because of the loot box system.

Id say dont buy these kinds of games if you dont like the mechanics. We dont need to get the government involved.
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not to defend this practice, but the bill would kill games like Path of Exile, which are dependent on having a casual mode of play for people playing through the game's story for free, and a more indepth mode (maps) at high levels that really is dependent on people buying the currency stash.

PoE is free to play, and generally not seen as exploitative. all its microtransactions other than the stash tab are totally not needed and largely cosmetic, but the currency stash tab is their #1 source of income
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PEGI 18 games are not banned, ESRB's AO games are banned despite being the same age rating.
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Sackgurl posted...

not to defend this practice, but the bill would kill games like Path of Exile, which are dependent on having a casual mode of play for people playing through the game's story for free, and a more indepth mode (maps) at high levels that really is dependent on people buying the currency stash.

PoE is free to play, and generally not seen as exploitative. all its microtransactions other than the stash tab are totally not needed and largely cosmetic, but the currency stash tab is their #1 source of income

Wonder if in situations like this, they could switch to an optional subscription model. It removes micro transactions, and still gives benefits to people willing to support the game.
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>they don't realize that cosmetic only loot boxes were only ever supposed to be the gateway drug to p2w boxes fennekin
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TheGreatGeno326 posted...

The p2w whales who pay to get ahead in MMOs because theyre shit at the game are gonna be so fucking mad about this lol

they pay because they have jobs and a life
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Sackgurl posted...

not to defend this practice, but the bill would kill games like Path of Exile, which are dependent on having a casual mode of play for people playing through the game's story for free, and a more indepth mode (maps) at high levels that really is dependent on people buying the currency stash.

PoE is free to play, and generally not seen as exploitative. all its microtransactions other than the stash tab are totally not needed and largely cosmetic, but the currency stash tab is their #1 source of income

i play many F2P games including PoE thats why im hoping the bill doesnt pass

it would kill many f2p games or force them to become p2p.............
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Doom_Art posted...

Knowing the GOP I'm gonna guess this bill sounds good but has some awful shit tucked away in it.

Even if that's not the case, I would prefer this bill fail, since I'd rather see a Democrat get this win instead

......that is fucked up,
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Doom_Art posted...

Knowing the GOP I'm gonna guess this bill sounds good but has some awful shit tucked away in it.

Even if that's not the case, I would prefer this bill fail, since I'd rather see a Democrat get this win instead

Sodding tribalism...
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Time for shitty Activision and EA to get butchered.
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The loot box situation in gaming as it stands is just a thriving new industry reaping the rewards of their current un-regulation.

All regulation had to come from somewhere. We just live in a unique time period where most business opportunities have already been taken decades ago so we don't deal with this too often.

Sackgurl posted...

not to defend this practice, but the bill would kill games like Path of Exile, which are dependent on having a casual mode of play for people playing through the game's story for free, and a more indepth mode (maps) at high levels that really is dependent on people buying the currency stash.

PoE is free to play, and generally not seen as exploitative. all its microtransactions other than the stash tab are totally not needed and largely cosmetic, but the currency stash tab is their #1 source of income

Difficulty modes, additional levels, and similar things are explicitly excluded. Additionally, gameplay-affecting microtransactions are still allowed provided that, 1: you do not NEED to buy them in order to complete portions of the game that you already have access to, and 2: they do not cost a variable amount of money.

Basically microtransactions to unlock things like new characters in a MOBA are okay as long as there is not a random chance to unlock those characters, nor are those characters overpowered and you need to have them to reasonably compete.

People are dramatically overstating the affects of what is being banned, and dramatically understating what kinds of games are under the umbrella of this ban.

This bill is laser focused on pay-to-win lootboxes but targets basically all video games. Any video game that doesn't have pay-to-win loot boxes won't be affected for the most part. The only other type of microtransaction that is banned are ones where you can pay to have a competitive advantage, like, if they made a boss that was literally impossible to beat unless you bought this very specific character.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

Difficulty modes, additional levels, and similar things are explicitly excluded

many games add those things for free so this bill may force people to pay for them ?

and people here thinks thats good????????????????????
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Gamers and the gaming industry both shouldn't want the government dipping their toes in regulating video games. This is a bad thing tbh
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On one hand I don't like the idea of politicians meddling in video games, but on the other I fucking hate loot boxes with a burning passion

I am conflicted.
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TheGreatGeno326 posted...

Irony posted...

Another Geno alt that needs to go

Shut the fuck up

Are these alts voluntary or do you keep getting warned/banned, so you gotta make them to be able to post?
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marc55 posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

Difficulty modes, additional levels, and similar things are explicitly excluded

many games add those things for free so this bill may force people to pay for them ?

and people here thinks thats good????????????????????

The bill doesn't force people to pay for anything. It only prohibits selling certain things.

The exemption looks like it was specifically trying to allow things like COD Map packs or Neptunia series' level 999 colliseum shit.

(I think the colliseum shit is all free actually but something like that)
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I wish game companies didn't push the limits to the point the government wants to get involved. It's going to be very easy for them to accidentally make some over-bearing rule that covers more than just lootboxes and boom shit sucks.
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Error1355 posted...

I wish game companies didn't push the limits to the point the government wants to get involved. It's going to be very easy for them to accidentally make some over-bearing rule that covers more than just lootboxes and boom shit sucks.

The actual text of the bill was posted. It's fine
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Tyranthraxus posted...

marc55 posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

Difficulty modes, additional levels, and similar things are explicitly excluded

many games add those things for free so this bill may force people to pay for them ?

and people here thinks thats good????????????????????

The bill doesn't force people to pay for anything. It only prohibits selling certain things.

The exemption looks like it was specifically trying to allow things like COD Map packs or Neptunia series' level 999 colliseum shit.

(I think the colliseum shit is all free actually but something like that)

yes it will

if the bill makes it so if game no longer can profit one way theyll have to do it in another something we are getting for free now not longer will be and you for some reason are happy about it
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Blue_Inigo posted...

Error1355 posted...

I wish game companies didn't push the limits to the point the government wants to get involved. It's going to be very easy for them to accidentally make some over-bearing rule that covers more than just lootboxes and boom shit sucks.

The actual text of the bill was posted. It's fine

eh then ok lol
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