Poll of the Day > GoT Season 8, Episode 5 *spoilers obviously*

(+) Yeah! (+)

Wow.....that was......almost painful to watch tbh.

I really didn't like how Arya was acting in the end, this is the same girl who ran through a city with face changing assassins after her, who killed tons of undead (with people dying all around her), and then freaking tried to backstab the night king and did him anyway when that failed.

She is not some lost, dazed, confused little girl, who gets knocked down and trampled by a mob, who stares at darthraki riding towards her and just cowers in fear instead of taking even one of em down etc.

Danny crossed all the lines, and for no reason really, she killed people that didn't need killing, she killed innocents and kids, and her OWN FREAKING PEOPLE. WTH? Why would they have her do that. She is as mad as her father, and I dislike her now almost as much as Cercie. Growl, I don't know why they had to make her like that, she was totally normal/cool/smart and kind until a few episodes ago.

My friend said he thinks she is tied to the dragons and when they died, each one made her slip a bit more into madness.

Jamie's story was sad, actually best part of this episode. I cried when Tyrion saved him, and really liked that part. I hoped Jamie would redeem himself and save tons of people by ringing the bell.

Ugh, it was another, BIG EVEN that ended in an hour. Something that was led up to for years, over in a second. I really dislike that tbh, I feel like the final confrontation between Danny/John and Cercie needed a bit more time, but whatever.

Next week I just don't know at this point. I really can't root for anyone anymore, I still am behind Arya at least, I hope things work out for her.

John is meh, dude causes more trouble half the time, then he solves. His whole telling his sisters thing led to all this. I guess it's fine if he ends up on the throne, but I certainly won't cheer for him at this point (Also I can't get Ghosts sad Arrooo out of my head!).

Danny pretty much needs to die, they already killed her and what is left needs to be put down like the night king.

Maybe....ok, if I had to root for ONE personto sit on the throne after all this......I would root for Tyrion actually. I could get behind that, way before John, but I doubt it'll happen.
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EvilMegas posted...

Jesus christ this show.

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I thought it was good, pretty much nothing happened the way I thought it would but I like that the show is always subverting expectations

Qybern had his comeuppance coming for a long time so that was great. I think Jon and Tyrion are kicking themselves now for not listening to reason about Danaerys. Varys was right all the warning signs were there
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Dany is basically the same as Cersei. Cersei's children died and she went full nutter. Dany's children died and she went full nutter.
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Mead posted...

I thought it was good, pretty much nothing happened the way I thought it would but I like that the show is always subverting expectations

Qybern had his comeuppance coming for a long time so that was great. I think Jon and Tyrion are kicking themselves now for not listening to reason about Danaerys. Varys was right all the warning signs were there

Yeah, they are all kicking themselves, but really the signs were just recent mostly. She was sweet and caring mostly even a few episodes ago. Simple solution was always just rule WITH john and marry him but whatever.

The whole hound vs SUPER MEGA UNDEAD MOUNTAIN fight was a trip lol. Heck even a knife through the head....nope....just a scratch!! Lolz. I didn't say I hated the episode, I don't like some of what happened, and it was hard/painful to watch it (cried early on even) but other then the Arya bits, it was pretty cool.

Still not thrilled with the whole ballista stuff lol. Now they just made it so the dragon could have won the whole war in fact.

All Danny's army did was...well....get burnt up by the dragon (and a few stopped to rape random innocents before burning to death).

Danny could have just said hold on a sec, I'll be back for the big war with the night king in a few days (plenty of time till they get here) and burned kings landing to the ground. Saved a ton of time and hassle.
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Dany's got green eyes, right?
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Daenerys is now the worst person in the show, Cersei never killed that many innocent people even when she blew up the sept.

That shit didn't make any logistical sense
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Better ruin the crown city and kill all the subjects so I'll have to rebuild it all by myself.
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Everyone that survived the attack: "I got the black lung, pa"
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GoT TL/DR version.

7 seasons of character development and lead up towards a huge war against the undead and night king, and political intrigue among many characters hinting at an epic war for the throne, finished/ended in 2 episodes, one of which was too dark to see most of, and the other involved 1 last dragon killing everyone easily (including the allies).

Saved anyone thinking about watching the series a ton of wasted time.
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Love the saltiness itt
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What was your favourite part?

-Tyrion making consistently bad decisions again
-Cavalry outside the city walls again
-Dothraki coming back to life
-The Hound and Arya walking through walls to get inside the Red Keep
-Scorpion nerfs
-Gregor deciding to fight Sandor for no reason
-Euron fatally wounding Jaime because everyone loves Euron
-Sandor stabbing Gregor with a knife and causing everyone to explode in a shower of ice
-Mad queen Dany killing everyone other than Cersei
-Sandor coming back to life as a horse
-Forgot the Valonquar prophecy
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I'm trying to be open minded but....there are a few things that bug me.

First Arya, they did to her this episode, what they did to John Snow in episode 3. She basically wandered around in a fog and did nothing. I didn't feel like I was watching the Arya I have grown to know over years of watching the show. This, even though small, bugs me the most as she is my favorite character.

John snow was .....again.....absolutely completely useless. He accomplished nothing, and no, that wasn't the case throughout most of the series. Even when he failed, he usually accomplished something in the process. He also was one of my favorites...so this bums me out.

Jamie.....sigh....I had mostly given up on him actually last episode, but there was at least a few ways they could of sorta redeemed him. Nope, he simply wanted to get back to Cercie, slept with Brienne and then dumped her (even though he knew there was another guy very interested in her), and then, on top of that got caught, and pretty much let his brother have a death sentence for him to escape. The part with him an Tyrion did make me cry and was emotional, but over all they just destroyed Jamie's story. Really sad about that.

Tyrion, my second favorite character, and the person I would most like to see on the iron throne. He has been a sad dwarf this season, and seemed to mostly be unable to acomplish anything. They stuck hi in the crypt for the night king battle (Against his wishes), then everything he has tried, or done, has failed or made things worst (Telling Vayrs etc). I love his character, but I pretty much hate what they have done with him lately.

Danny, she was never my favorite character or in my top lists. She had many fans, and her parts where not boring at least, but I woulda been fine with her being killed. Maybe a dragon gets shot down with her on it etc. I don't get suddenly changing in the last few episodes from her fighting for the little people, to end slavery, to protect the weak.......to slaughtering an entire large city worth of innocents, including women and children. It makes no sense, and even I hate what they have done with her (and I never really liked her that much).

The whole ballista vs dragon thing is still kinda dumb as well, I have a hard time handling the fact that 2 dragons died, with little effort on enemies part (the night king given a few more minutes coulda taken all 3 out (and if he had thrown the first spear at the dragon on the ground with Danny, he would have anyway), and then BAM they are totally worthless. I mean, even normal ballista (not the super powered mega ones) could have been some deterant to a dragon on the walls.

Shrug, whatever, 1 episode left. Wish it had gone another way but gonna try and enjoy it as much as possible anyway.
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quigonzel posted...

Next week is the final episode, right? So it'd be safe for me to start the show now?

Stop after Season 4 and just go with your own personal head canon.
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Biggest surprise for me was the Dothraki are still alive.

Like, when she was reading off her titles to kill Varys, she left out that she was Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea. She left out a few other titles too, so maybe she just didn't know them all since Missandei usually said them.
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I was prepared for a bittersweet ending but not something like this. Queen of Ashes feels like a fitting title at this point.
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A few more characters meeting and talking would have been nice. These are characters we've all been getting behind for years. Just a few extra lines of dialogue - the snappy and tense stuff that made the show not just another action fantasy.

The best part for me was the conversation between Dany and Tyrion and Emilia Clarke isn't even that good at delivering hard lines.
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What was the point of some things in this series?

Jon: "We need to all work together to defeat the NK and the White Walkers! If we don't we'll die!"
Cersei: "You sure? Not helping btw."
*later*
Jon: "We somehow survived? And we only lost half our forces?"
War Council: "Our forces are now roughly equal to Cersei's. The fight should be a close one."
*Drogon then destroys the city and opposing forces by himself*

I guess they didn't need an army at all? Just one dragon and twenty good men?

quigonzel posted...

Next week is the final episode, right? So it'd be safe for me to start the show now?

In season four, I would have highly recommended the show. Last season, I'd recommend it with a warning that it gets worse. After this season, I'd say just save your time. This season has been so awful that it has impacted every other season. When the White Walkers were introduced I said "this is pointless zombies being shoved in to drag out the real plot line." I was livid when I found out that was the literal reason for their introduction. Half of the show, if not more, in season 5-6 is totally useless filler.

I think this the direction the story is...supposed to go. its just being so hamfistedly crammed into 6 episodes and one season that it seems forced and stupid. I don't know why HBO would want to give up on more seasons of game of thrones and throw together this mess of a season when they had a lot of subscribers just for this show.
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Everything that happened with Dany in episode 5 reinforces how poorly done episode 4 was, and how it shouldn't have happened
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Copy and pasting what I wrote on the A Song of Ice and Fire forum.

So about those dragon breaths. Other than the fiery aspect, is it a concentrated blast of air too or something? I know it is all fictional so I don't want to put too much thinking into it (unlike those ballistas in S8E4) but the way those stone walls were being blasted away seems unreal.

I know there were wildfire throughout the city but we didn't see any of that till later and we have seen ships blown apart but I that's hollow wooden ships versus stone walls. I can accept there being quite a bit of pressure in those breaths with how far they can breath it out but didn't expect it to be so concentrated and strong to blast through stone walls so easily.
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Dragon fire is represented inconsistently (sometimes it's an explosion, other times just fire), but it's overall a minor thing. Dragon's have always been described as beating fortresses or ships so that's still consistent. Even in this very episode, Varys simply caught alight when he was ignited, he didn't explode.

The scorpions being treated as a joke when just last episode they were dragon seeking missiles is the more problematic part of that battle I think.
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Blightzkrieg posted...

The scorpions being treated as a joke when just last episode they were dragon seeking missiles is the more problematic part of that battle I think.

My coworker mentioned why only one bolt was launched instead of a volley. I can only assume the angle of her approach caught them unaware and it simply took them too long to aim/reload the bolts but even then it is a night and day difference between what happened previously and what happened in Episode 5.
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GanonsSpirit posted...

Dany is basically the same as Cersei. Cersei's children died and she went full nutter. Dany's children died and she went full nutter.

Not only did 2 of her 3 children die. But she lost everyone closest to her either by death or by betrayal. Joe, Varys, Jorah, Missandei, and a good chunk of the Dothraki and Unsullied she's been with for a long time. She knows she has no support in Westeros and now the ultimate is she faces a very real threat and claim to the throne from Joe even if he keeps saying he doesn't want it. She can see how quickly EVERYONE there would support him should they find out about it.

I'm not sure how people didn't see this outcome coming during this season. People say it was a sudden change, well yeah it happened over the previous 4 episodes because it had to happen in 5. Would people feel better if it happened over 8 episodes instead? But wait we would probably have 1 or 2 in there without her because we'd need more KL filler instead. So still maybe 5 or 6 episodes instead of 4? I think people are just being picky to be picky. I didn't expect her to go FULL psycho mode and level most of the town. I did expect her to still go after the Red Keep and level it though to get Cerci. Doing the whole town didn't make much sense. But she is a Targaryen and they can go mad.

And Arya becoming the scared little girl she really is fits, she's in a town being destroyed by a Dragon. She can't fight it she can face off against it. All she can be is scared, everyone in the town can only be scared of it. Just because she's assassinated people and killed the Night King doesn't mean jack crap vs a Dragon.

Overall a great episode.
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Joe
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Joe Snow, fastest draw in the Westeros
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Nope on Arya being a scared little girl. She faced worse things then a dragon (Even when they made it god tier dragon that can fly around breathing fire for hours, that destroys walls). She would have jumped on rooftops or found a way under the city or paid attention to the dragons angle of attack and avoided it, something....not just wandered like a dazed little girl that needed a mother to save her.

Danny could have gone that way sure, maybe, eventually, after a bunch of REALLY bad stuff happened to her and people really betrayed her, and she had NOBODY that cared about her etc etc.

That didn't happen, even in fast forward mode, and to suddenly have "the madness" show up, after so many times worse betrayals and horrors happened to her in the past. Her brother sold her to Drago for instance, did she flip the fark out and kill all the darthraki when she had a chance...well...actually she kinda did send em all to die against the night king lolz. Seriously though, I get they were trying to show her decent into madness in the last couple episodes, but not only was it seriously fast forwarded, it made no sense for the character at all. She has John, who swears he loves her and will follow her, and simple solutions as well (leave john to rule the west and she rules the east, marry john and they rule it all together, tell john he needs to freaking leave and have him rule the east while she rules the west (neither of loved in their lands) etc etc. As far as the dragons dying...yeah, that blows, but if she cared so much why did she risk her lask dragon, cause at least based on Episode freaking 4.....it was highly likely for him to be shot down.

Nope to it all honestly, only char that acted at all in character was the hound pretty much. John still had his hands tied, Jamie devolved to season 1 Jamie, Cersie acted like a petulant child that couldn't accept they lost and didn't care about the consequences to others, Danny just suddenly went crazy with no real reason in that instant, Arya was a lost little girl that she wasn't even when....she was a lost little girl. None of the characters acted like you would expect them to, or like they were even those characters anymore.

And Tyrion...sigh, where is the sarcastic dwarf who laughs as the world is ending and finds humor in everything, no mater how depressing and sad. The guy who finds a way no matter what, using his mind to overcome almost anything? The strategist who excelled in some ways over his father and was probably the best of the Lannisters? He went into the crypt a few episodes back and never came back. I guess they killed him off after all.
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Dany has always been batshit crazy about taking the throne and killing people. Not a big surprise tbh, she's been mass killing people for awhile now.
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You knoe noething Joe Snoe
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My favorite part is that this episode makes the 3rd one look even worse seeing as how the Night King could have just b-lined with his Dragon and destroyed Winterfell in one pass.

Also I've always hated Dany and figured it would end with her going crazy, but it definite is going way too fast.

I mean, if you were gonna go this way, have Cercie die (by dragon fire) and have Jamie freaking kill Danny when she lands lolz. At least that would be fitting and finish off is arc in a somewhat cool fashion.

I gotta wonder at the fallout in the last episode from this, Danny didn't just burn/kill tons of innocents, which is bad enough, but she also freaking obliterated most of her own people as well, who she knew was still in the city (perhaps she was trying to kill John so there would be no challenge to her throne?).

Can't imagine many besides worm are gonna stand behind her at this point (maybe any remaining darkthraki that didn't get burnt up).

Thing about ruling by dragon is, you gotta sleep sometime, and probably NOT on the dragon. And the dragon has to sleep/land sometime as well (and there are weapons that can kill them as we know). She certainly didn't have a lack of allys/suppoert before this last episode, but now? I would say her absolute best option at this point is to retreat over seas and try and find support/rule there. She is done in Westros.
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wolfy42 posted...

but she also freaking obliterated most of her own people as well

Nah, if you saw the size of her army in the preview for next week, team killing was obviously off.

wolfy42 posted...

but she also freaking obliterated most of her own people as well

You keep saying this, but that's not what happened. She killed some of the Dothraki maybe, but most of her men were around Jon/Grey Worm, and they didn't get obliterated.
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The Jaime and Brienne romance pissed me off, but now I'm thinking it's going to be worse. Here's my crappy theory

For the sake of subverting expectations Brienne got pregnant. That means she alone carries a Lannister that continues the bloodline. Pretty sure it would be the only Lannister left by the end of episode 6 if it even survived

Double twist if it's a dwarf or a set of twins

Who's willing to bet that absolutely won't happen?
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Zangulus posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

The Jaime and Brienne romance pissed me off, but now I'm thinking it's going to be worse. Here's my crappy theory

For the sake of subverting expectations Brienne got pregnant. That means she alone carries a Lannister that continues the bloodline. Pretty sure it would be the only Lannister left by the end of episode 6 if it even survived

Double twist if it's a dwarf or a set of twins

Who's willing to bet that absolutely won't happen?

That cant happen as theres no shortage of Lannisters. Not even Casterly Rock Lannisters. Sure, it could be the last direct descendant of Tywin, but hardly the last Lanninster.

All right then direct Tywin descendant. I'm pretty sure Brienne would not want to have Jaime's child
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GanonsSpirit posted...

wolfy42 posted...

but she also freaking obliterated most of her own people as well

You keep saying this, but that's not what happened. She killed some of the Dothraki maybe, but most of her men were around Jon/Grey Worm, and they didn't get obliterated.

Ahh, I thought they all got crispified, I didn't watch the preview for next week. Last I saw them they were going towards Cercie, not away (at least the unsullied), John was trying to evacuate everyone, but they didn't even show him getting out of the city.

Even if she didn't kill them, she ATTACKED while they were all still in the city, and could have killed them.
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Zangulus posted...

Why? Tons of them came running back after the assault on the field and into Winterfell.

I know I saw Jorah, some riderless horses, and maybe a few Dothraki return. But in the "Inside the Episode" segment, David Benioff describes the scene as "essentially the end of the Dothraki." So I was like, "Oh, I guess that's it then." I didn't notice them in the episode afterwards, but that's more on me.
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How did Arya survive all that and run off on a horse? Seemed like a hero riding away moment but it didnt feel earned.
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SpaghettiCookie posted...

How did Arya survive all that and run off on a horse? Seemed like a hero riding away moment but it didnt feel earned.

Probably a mix of plot armour and better spatial awareness compared to the rest of the civilians is my guess. If it wasn't death from Dothraki it was death from being crushed or burn. The part I found weird is how the Dothraki didn't cut her down as they rode past her.
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chaosbowser posted...

I think this the direction the story is...supposed to go. its just being so hamfistedly crammed into 6 episodes and one season that it seems forced and stupid. I don't know why HBO would want to give up on more seasons of game of thrones and throw together this mess of a season when they had a lot of subscribers just for this show.

George RR Martin and the showrunners have said that he told them how the story was supposed to end, but not necessarily how the story would get to that point.

In other words, he probably told them "Dany eventually goes nuts, Jon winds up on the Iron Throne", and that's it.

And then they ran out of plot from the books and spent three seasons completely fucking around and failing to build any logical progression towards that ending, only to realize how absolutely screwed they were because they had to cram 2 - 2 1/2 books worth of character development into about 20 minutes of screen time.

My assumption is also that the character endings that the audience are most pissed about (like Jaime/Cersei) are the ones the show came up with on their own, and aren't the intended endings for those characters in the books.

I also have a suspicion that, as much as the show clearly wanted to cast Cersei as the final Big Bad and just wanted to get the whole White Walkers/Night King stuff over with just to get it out of the way because they didn't really care about it at all, the book plot would have been the exact opposite, with Cersei eventually fading in importance as the Others become more and more dominant and dangerous to everyone, and the "game of thrones" gets put aside in favor of the more important implications of "the song of ice and fire".

A shame we'll never get to read the books, because Martin hates the fans and will happily die before finishing writing/publishing them.


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ParanoidObsessive posted...

chaosbowser posted...

I think this the direction the story is...supposed to go. its just being so hamfistedly crammed into 6 episodes and one season that it seems forced and stupid. I don't know why HBO would want to give up on more seasons of game of thrones and throw together this mess of a season when they had a lot of subscribers just for this show.

George RR Martin and the showrunners have said that he told them how the story was supposed to end, but not necessarily how the story would get to that point.

In other words, he probably told them "Dany eventually goes nuts, Jon winds up on the Iron Throne", and that's it.

And then they ran out of plot from the books and spent three seasons completely fucking around and failing to build any logical progression towards that ending, only to realize how absolutely screwed they were because they had to cram 2 - 2 1/2 books worth of character development into about 20 minutes of screen time.

My assumption is also that the character endings that the audience are most pissed about (like Jaime/Cersei) are the ones the show came up with on their own, and aren't the intended endings for those characters in the books.

I also have a suspicion that, as much as the show clearly wanted to cast Cersei as the final Big Bad and just wanted to get the whole White Walkers/Night King stuff over with just to get it out of the way because they didn't really care about it at all, the book plot would have been the exact opposite, with Cersei eventually fading in importance as the Others become more and more dominant and dangerous to everyone, and the "game of thrones" gets put aside in favor of the more important implications of "the song of ice and fire".

A shame we'll never get to read the books, because Martin hates the fans and will happily die before finishing writing/publishing them.

Yeah I pretty much place all the blame on the show's current writing state on Martin. People are quick to hate on Weiss and Benioff but they were never the ones writing the story; only adapting it. And when they had books to adapt, they did it very well. But now it's clear that they're pretty much just adapting a very rough plot outline. If Martin had gotten around to releasing even one of the two books at any point in the last 8 years, the show would have had so much more solid material to base itself on. But as is it's basically been sort of flailing for 2 and a half seasons.
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Although Jaime and Cersei's ending is just bad writing and I do blame B+B for that. Clearly Jaime should have gone back to King's landing and killed his sister, because that would make him the Queenslayer as well, he is the only person she would have never expected to hurt her, it would have been poetic justice, and it would have completed Jaime's redemption and ultimately-a-good-guy arc. But instead they just had him revert to being a selfish asshole who loves his awful sister and spat on the face of all his character development since Season 3.
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