Board 8 > Survivor Discussion Topic 2: At the Edge of Extinction

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bwburke94
04/02/19 11:37:38 PM
1
Which is the best of these three twists? - Results (2 votes)
The Outcasts
50% (1 vote)
1
Redemption Island
0% (0 votes)
0
Edge of Extinction
50% (1 vote)
1
Still too many people in the game for a winner poll, even if we exclude those left on EoE. (Why exactly did they merge so early...?)
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I should stop changing signatures.
Underleveled
04/02/19 11:42:05 PM
2
13 has been a fairly standard merge since Cambodia.
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darkx
Score: There goes bracket
bwburke94
04/02/19 11:50:55 PM
3
Underleveled posted...
13 has been a fairly standard merge since Cambodia.

This is the first time they've merged at 13 of 18, and because of EoE, the first 13-person merge to include someone coming back mid-merge.
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I should stop changing signatures.
GTM
04/02/19 11:56:18 PM
4
always a first for everything
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GTM - Boko United
survivor and dillos and nintendo and wrestling
Underleveled
04/03/19 12:02:03 AM
5
To answer the poll question, Outcasts was by far the best of the three twists for a ton of reasons:

1. It was a surprise to both the players AND the audience, creating one of the truly great WTF moments in Survivor history.

2. Because it was a surprise to the audience, it didn't eat up screen time throughout the episodes, nor was it shoved down our throats. Beyond the two episodes where it actually mattered, it wasn't even mentioned (except in passing, ie Burton holding it over Lill's head).

3. It was designed to fit the theme of the season rather than shape it, making it feel much more natural despite being totally unprecedented.

4. It wasn't a guarantee anyone was going to return. The remaining players had an opportunity to prevent anyone from coming back, and they failed.

5. The returnees weren't simply placed back into the game - as punishment for explicitly losing the Outcast challenge, the tribes had to vote people out whom the returnees would replace, thus the cast size wasn't artificially bloated.

(EDIT: I KNEW I forgot one I was thinking of) 6. It was dead at the merge.

7. Because of all of the above, it wasn't intrusive to the narrative of the season. Only the results.

Objectively the only thing wrong with it compared to the others is that the returnees automatically had immunity the first tribal council after coming back, but that's a live-and-learn scenario. Frankly I don't think either of them would have been in danger of going home that night considering how things played out.

Honestly, I think the reason people loath it so much is because they hated the result it created. Lill, a player they felt was unworthy of still being in the game that deep into the season, came back and was directly responsible for voting out Savage, a player they felt deserved to go much further than he did. If the situation had been reversed the complaints would have been much fewer.
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darkx
Score: There goes bracket
Mewtwo59
04/03/19 12:29:27 AM
6
Burton won immunity anyway, and Lill was the swing vote, so I'm pretty sure the free immunity didn't affect anything.
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""Love" is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope." HK-47
Underleveled
04/03/19 12:41:12 AM
7
Mewtwo59 posted...
Burton won immunity anyway, and Lill was the swing vote, so I'm pretty sure the free immunity didn't affect anything.

Well yeah that's why I said given the way it played out neither of them were in danger of actually going home. But upon learning someone would return Andrew Savage's initial response was that whoever came back should be voted back out right away, having not heard that they would have immunity. So under different circumstances it might have.
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darkx
Score: There goes bracket
CoolCly
04/03/19 3:29:47 PM
8
So I wanted to talk about Aubry's vote off a bit but never got around to it. I might as well do it before tonights episode!

I thought it was really neat how they portrayed Aubry's vote off, falling for her alliance's lies like that and making it clear she was the target. They tell her that they want to work with her and she's super receptive to it. We plainly see them talking to eachother about how it's a lie and they are just going to vote her out. Then there's no ambiguity on whether it will be her or Wendy like in a typical episode. We know it's Aubry. But then the episode follows Aubry around and shows us her perspective, on everything, like whether or not she feels like she can trust Wendy or work with her in the future. But from our perspective, we know this line of logic is pointless because she's getting voted out and that logic will never be relevant - it's not up to her if she can work with Wendy or not and that will never come to fruition.

It makes Aubry look really stupid. Like she couldn't notice these people are lying to her, or that Wendy isn't trying to come up with an alternate plan? Why is she making plans for down the line when she needs to solve the situation right in front of her? I'm sure a LOT of people came away from that episode thinking Aubry is dumb.

But I'm not sure that's a fair take. I think that in the vast majority of vote offs, they could edit the person who got voted off exactly like they did here - the person talks to people, makes a plan with them, chooses to believe them, and then gives confessionals strategizing on where they could go with their game from here. They have a plan and they think it will work. Then the get voted off... and realize they had committed to a fake plan. I think this is what happens to most vote offs - they've committed to a plan that they hope is legit and it turns out they were the one being lied to. It seems like most votes don't have a clear outcast that everyone including the person going home knows what's going to happen - it sounds like both players get promises to vote with them but one is being lied to.

It's really cool when someone makes the read that someone is lying to them and comes up with a way to turn the tables, but you can't just always suspect the people you are working with are lying. Other wise, you'll never build trust and pull off a plan because you'll always be turning on each other. So there are points where you just have to believe somebody when they tell you that they will vote with you, even if it might turn out to be a mistake.

I've talked about this before (like with Paras, I think?) where players don't have perfect information and can only act on what what they see, and I think the thing that is most relevant for that is trusting other players - they can only judge whether to trust someone based on their personal relationship with that player and what that player has done to earn trust (like voting with you in previous tribals). Aubry hadn't been to tribal yet with these people, so she could only trust what they were saying. And yeah,in order to "be the best" and win you have to make it through these situations, but I don't think everyone falls for them must be dumb... otherwise that'd be almost every Survivor player.

Peridiam, you asked for video ideas a while ago, and I'd love to see a video exploring this concept in some way - how Survivors (or Big Brother) players have to make choices from their limited information in the moment. They don't necessarily have a lot of time to ponder things before making a move - they just have to make a call and go with it. How do players even make decisions like this? It'd be a hard concept to make a video about I think.... it's not a top 10 list of players with an attribute or something. But it could be really interesting.

You also asked about topics you could talk with Rob C about.... well, I'm sure he'd have some real perspective on this!
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The batman villians all seem to be one big joke that batman refuses to laugh at - SantaRPG
Underleveled
04/03/19 6:43:40 PM
9
Good last post last topic. I approve.
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darkx
Score: There goes bracket
Mewtwo59
04/03/19 7:09:14 PM
10
Should've gone with the classic Amanda sucks, especially since Inviso's rewatching China right now.
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""Love" is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope." HK-47
Underleveled
04/03/19 7:19:15 PM
11
Except that Amanda is pretty decent in China.
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darkx
Score: There goes bracket
GTM
04/03/19 8:00:50 PM
12
No recap
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GTM - Boko United
survivor and dillos and nintendo and wrestling
The Mana Sword
04/03/19 8:09:09 PM
13
Underleveled
04/03/19 8:12:09 PM
14
I normally feel bad when someone says they are actively trying to make someone else feel down and out, but that's what Wentworth has been doing to everyone but Lauren and Wardog all season, so I don't.
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darkx
Score: There goes bracket
Underleveled
04/03/19 8:16:29 PM
15
Rick owning Wardog.
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darkx
Score: There goes bracket
Underleveled
04/03/19 8:19:03 PM
16
I'm so glad Lessu is imploding.
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darkx
Score: There goes bracket
Inviso
04/03/19 8:19:39 PM
17
Okay, THAT was the first time I've liked Rick all season.
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Touch fuzzy. Get fuzzier.
Inviso
GTM
04/03/19 8:19:53 PM
18
No what are you doing rick dont let them pagong this season
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GTM - Boko United
survivor and dillos and nintendo and wrestling
Inviso
04/03/19 8:21:01 PM
19
GTM posted...
No what are you doing rick dont let them pagong this season


Yes Rick. Just join forces with the people who voted you out once, and tried to vote you/David out a second time. To prevent a Pagonging. Play the game like a completely emotionless robot. That's for the best.
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Touch fuzzy. Get fuzzier.
Inviso
Underleveled
04/03/19 8:22:21 PM
20
Yeah I really liked Rick that scene.

Oh hey it's the interesting people plus Joe.
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darkx
Score: There goes bracket
Underleveled
04/03/19 8:25:02 PM
21
I'm guessing she gives it to either Aurora or possibly Rick if she knows he gave him hers.
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darkx
Score: There goes bracket
GTM
04/03/19 8:25:11 PM
22
No what are you doing survivor
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GTM - Boko United
survivor and dillos and nintendo and wrestling
GTM
04/03/19 8:25:53 PM
23
Inviso posted...
GTM posted...
No what are you doing rick dont let them pagong this season


Yes Rick. Just join forces with the people who voted you out once, and tried to vote you/David out a second time. To prevent a Pagonging. Play the game like a completely emotionless robot. That's for the best.


Thank you exactly. Its better than a pagonging.
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GTM - Boko United
survivor and dillos and nintendo and wrestling
Underleveled
04/03/19 8:26:22 PM
24
Oh right I forgot isnt there supposed to be a medivac/not medivac here?
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darkx
Score: There goes bracket
The Mana Sword
04/03/19 8:26:56 PM
25
wardog is so bad at everything
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GTM
04/03/19 8:27:54 PM
26
How do they get the height perfectly fair in this
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GTM - Boko United
survivor and dillos and nintendo and wrestling
GTM
04/03/19 8:28:23 PM
27
Wardog the new crystal cox
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GTM - Boko United
survivor and dillos and nintendo and wrestling
Pokewars
04/03/19 8:28:43 PM
28
Devens total gamebot
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GTM
04/03/19 8:29:17 PM
29
Buff advantage
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GTM - Boko United
survivor and dillos and nintendo and wrestling
GTM
04/03/19 8:29:57 PM
30
Rip lauren
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GTM - Boko United
survivor and dillos and nintendo and wrestling
GTM
04/03/19 8:32:33 PM
31
Go aurora
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GTM - Boko United
survivor and dillos and nintendo and wrestling
The Mana Sword
04/03/19 8:34:21 PM
32
Underleveled
04/03/19 8:36:11 PM
33
While it was maybe a little inappropriate that by no means puts Aurora anywhere near the all-time s***-list. They kept the challenge going, it was fair game.
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darkx
Score: There goes bracket
Inviso
04/03/19 8:38:05 PM
34
So right now, I love Aurora being pissed and petty about her tribe fucking her over on the vote. I love Rick being pissed and petty about his tribe trying to fuck him over on the vote. David annoys me for immediately crawling back into Lesu.
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Touch fuzzy. Get fuzzier.
Inviso
GTM
04/03/19 8:39:00 PM
35
Shes left out, and jeff said to continue, so it wasnt shitty at all
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GTM - Boko United
survivor and dillos and nintendo and wrestling
Underleveled
04/03/19 8:40:10 PM
36
Eric you dense mfer, you can't split 7 on 5...
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darkx
Score: There goes bracket
GTM
04/03/19 8:41:57 PM
37
Lol wardog
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GTM - Boko United
survivor and dillos and nintendo and wrestling
Inviso
04/03/19 8:44:33 PM
38
Victoria, do not let them do some stupid shit.
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Touch fuzzy. Get fuzzier.
Inviso
GTM
04/03/19 8:45:04 PM
39
Ooh i hope they do do it and david and devens go to the other side so its still 6 6... but also flush the idols
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GTM - Boko United
survivor and dillos and nintendo and wrestling
GTM
04/03/19 8:45:33 PM
40
Inviso posted...
Victoria, do not let them do some stupid shit.


Its fine, stupid shit isnt gamebotting
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GTM - Boko United
survivor and dillos and nintendo and wrestling
Inviso
04/03/19 8:46:14 PM
41
GTM posted...
Inviso posted...
Victoria, do not let them do some stupid shit.


Its fine, stupid shit isnt gamebotting


It actually IS gamebotting. It's literally "let's make a big move to make a big move". It's stupid as fuck, but it's gamebotting as fuck too.
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Touch fuzzy. Get fuzzier.
Inviso
Underleveled
04/03/19 8:48:00 PM
42
It's dumb because they are still putting themselves in a minority. Victoria is right. If they want to do this they need to wait one more vote.
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darkx
Score: There goes bracket
GTM
04/03/19 8:50:06 PM
43
Its not to make a big move, its cause theyre afraid, an emotion robots dont have
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GTM - Boko United
survivor and dillos and nintendo and wrestling
Inviso
04/03/19 8:51:55 PM
44
GTM posted...
Its not to make a big move, its cause theyre afraid, an emotion robots dont have


They literally said "we need to make a big move if we want to win this game." I'm sorry, that's robotic and treating Survivor like it's an ORG.
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Touch fuzzy. Get fuzzier.
Inviso
GTM
04/03/19 8:52:15 PM
45
Like no ones voting out their mom tonight
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GTM - Boko United
survivor and dillos and nintendo and wrestling
Inviso
04/03/19 8:53:05 PM
46
Oh fuck off with your "resume" bullshit, David. Worst thing about modern Survivor is the INSISTENCE on resumes.
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Touch fuzzy. Get fuzzier.
Inviso
GTM
04/03/19 8:55:15 PM
47
Wat
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GTM - Boko United
survivor and dillos and nintendo and wrestling
Pokewars
04/03/19 8:56:28 PM
48
GTM
04/03/19 8:56:32 PM
49
Lol devensface
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GTM - Boko United
survivor and dillos and nintendo and wrestling
GTM
04/03/19 8:57:21 PM
50
I still think the worst thing about modern survivor is colton
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GTM - Boko United
survivor and dillos and nintendo and wrestling
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