Board 8 > *~~SephG ranks the classic 2D console platformers~~*

(+) Yeah! (+)

pjbasis posted...

lordjers posted...

New Super Mario Bros. games are up there too IMO.

I need to play these games again without a super jaded perspective.

Probably without powerups

If that somehow means they make the game easy I'd disagree and say SMW is easier than those.
---

Nelson_Mandela posted...

The lack of a spin-dash is really a massive deterrent to enjoying the experience

In Sonic Jam, they added the Spin Dash in Sonic 1.

They also added the Spin Dash for Sonic the Hedgehog Genesis (port of Sonic 1 for Genesis) on the GBA but that was a really BAD port.
---

#5. Super Mario World
https://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/24931-super-mario-world-super-mario-advance-2-game-boy-advance-screenshot.jpg

This write-up is going to be a little different, as the best way I can talk about Super Mario World is to compare it to another game that will appear on this list: Super Mario Bros. 3.

For what feels like most of my life, there has seemed to always be this omnipresent debate raging as to whether SMW or SMB3 is the better game and, in turn, the pinnacle of Mario games and 2D platforming. Which game, they would ask, best represents the genre and is a paragon for everything Nintendo? I found myself always in the SMB3 camp--I had played both games enough, but never owned either one personally and therefore never really explored the nuances that one can only find after putting in a dozen or so hours into each game. Regardless, I had more experience with SMB3, so I took a side--even as I read numerous arguments for SMW that seemed more and more convincing each year.

The graphics and presentation for Super Mario World are pretty astounding for its time. It may not seem like a big leap now, but I remember playing a Super Nintendo for the first time in the early 90s and being floored by how much bigger and brighter everything was. There is a reason why I used the giant Bullet Bill as the image for this game--that moment in the first level was when everyone realized what the Super in Super Nintendo really meant. The sprites are that big and detailed now, and there is only going to be more where that came from.

The game design was also more intricate than its predecessor. SMW took advantage of the extra buttons and allowed for a deeper experience this time around by giving Mario (and Luigi) the spin ability, which really opened up an extra dimension to each level. On top of this, of course, we have the introduction of Yoshi, which essentially doubles the amount of things you can do--increasing the ways one can beat a level and unlock some of the secret stage exits.

So with these additions, why is SMW merely "Excellent" and not as good as SMB3? Well, after so many years of listening to the debate, I finally played these games exactly back-to-back and figured it out for myself.
---

The first thing I noticed with SMW is that it's significantly slower than its forebear. Both in terms of obstacle speed and the freedom to blitz through a level, SMW forces you to really pace yourself in comparison. The dev team surely had logic behind this--given the branching paths, secrets, and the addition of new actions you can perform, it's necessary to allow the player to take the time to explore and figure things out for themselves. But at the end of the day, this doesn't feel as fun for me as building my expertise and pushing myself to finish a level as quickly and flawlessly as possible. SMB3 is far more challenging from a platforming perspective, so you get an even bigger rush when you finally are able to fly through a level perfectly.

And speaking of flying, another downside to SMW is the power-up system. Nothing felt better than getting a feather or Tanooki suit in SMB3 and flying into the sky to see what kind of weird bonuses you could get up there. In SMW... you fly up, you fall down. You get frustrated when the gliding doesn't go your way. I also really enjoyed the inventory system of SMB3--being able to hold onto power-ups to help you through difficult levels added an element of strategy. But it was also more than this. While SMW had a clear "replayability" factor due to the secret exits, I found it incredibly fun to see how the various power ups could help you clear a level. You start to realize things like "hey, this hammer suit will let me get past this obstacle in the water level way better than the frog suit" or "the flying ability isn't going to help me here." This was a more cerebral element that was missing from SMW. And the fact that your power-ups (and lives) do not carry over after you save and quit is unnecessary and annoying, I might add.

I clearly think Super Mario World is an amazing game--I ranked it in this elite tier, after all. However, it is no longer a debate for me: Super Mario Bros. 3 > Super Mario World. I welcome your dissent.

Not good
11. Sonic the Hedgehog

Fine
10. Sonic the Hedgehog 2

Great
9. Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble!
8. Super Mario Bros.
7. Donkey Kong Country

Excellent
6. Super Mario Bros. 2 (US)
5. Super Mario World

Spectacular
4.
3.

All-timers
2.
1.
---

I definitely prefer 3's flying (and power-ups in general) over World's, and it's a big reason I prefer 3.
---

WarThaNemesis2 posted...

I definitely prefer 3's flying (and power-ups in general) over World's, and it's a big reason I prefer 3.

I definitely prefer SMWs flying over 3s, and its a big reason I prefer SMW
---

no salvation for you
---

KommunistKoala posted...

no salvation for you

me or jakyl?
---

all smb3 > smw acolytes
---

KommunistKoala posted...

all smb3 > smw acolytes

Give me your rebuttal
---

I think the rebuttal is just exploration > skill challenge

I will say this: SMW Goombas are awful
---

Jakyl25 posted...

I will say this: SMW Goombas are awful

I prefer World to SMB3, but it's impossible not to agree. Goombas are supposed to be walking muffins, not ball-shaped things!
---

Jakyl25 posted...

I think the rebuttal is just exploration > skill challenge

I will say this: SMW Goombas are awful

This is unironically #2 on the 3 > World list for me.
---

SMB3 levels are too short. The right powerups also don't seem to be where you need them. There's also no way you can surpass SMW's flying; that cape is just too good, and then there's the best maneuvering and physics in a Mario game ever. Yeah I'm easily team World.
---

lordjers posted...

and then there's the best maneuvering and physics in a Mario game ever.

Were not talking about Odyssey
---

lordjers posted...

SMB3 levels are too short. The right powerups also don't seem to be where you need them. There's also no way you can surpass SMW's flying; that cape is just too good, and then there's the best maneuvering and physics in a Mario game ever. Yeah I'm easily team World.

Nah b those levels are perfect for replaying.

Powerups are best in smb3 because they're actually somewhat rare! SMW always loads you up except in castle/ghost stages
---

Jakyl25 posted...

I will say this: SMW Goombas are awful

excuse me those are Galoombas
---

Unsubscribe
---

Super Mario World > Super Mario Bros. > Super Mario Bros. 3.

...

What? Why are you looking at me like that?

Here's the real question, though: where you you rank Super Mario Maker amongst other 2D Mario games?
---

VectorAgent posted...

Super Mario World > Super Mario Bros. > Super Mario Bros. 3.

Perfect.
---

lordjers posted...

SMB3 levels are too short.

Too short? There's no checkpoints!
---

VectorAgent posted...

Here's the real question, though: where you you rank Super Mario Maker amongst other 2D Mario games?

Never played it!
---

SMB3 is the best game ever so
---

SexThaNemesis posted...

SMB3 is the best game ever so

I can never tell if this is ExTha or an ExTha parody!
---

The world may never know
---

No more hints because it'll ruin the fun; however, I will say that these top 4 are so good that I would be able to buy an argument for any one of them being the best 2D platformer ever made.
---

lordjers posted...

VectorAgent posted...

Super Mario World > Super Mario Bros. > Super Mario Bros. 3.

Perfect.

Nah it's 1 > 3 > W
---

SMB3 > SMW

(aka, tag)
---

So how would you all order the remaining 4?
---

Never played Yoshi's Island because I had Genesis. As such, Sonic 3 was a major part of my childhood. My cousins had DKC2 though and I loved that game.

Probably

3. Sonic 3
2. DKC2
1. SMB3
---

My guess for what's up next: S3&K.
---

#4. Sonic 3 & Knuckles
http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/genesis/b/s3nksseend3.gif

After the disappointment of Sonic 1 and 2, you can imagine that I went into S3&K with trepidation. After all, outside of this board, I had almost always seen Sonic 2 listed as the best of the trilogy, and Sonic 3 was somewhat of an afterthought. But my god was this notion proven wrong.

Let me first start by saying that Sonic 3 & Knuckles is one game. I don't know why there was ever any controversy about it with regards to games contests here, but it is very clear that Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles were designed to be a unified experience, and Sega just forced them to release it in two parts. There is nothing you can say that would ever convince me to rank these games apart.

S3&K represents a new direction for the series that was so desperately needed after the release of games like Donkey Kong Country, Super Mario World, and other contemporary 2D side-scrollers. For the first time, S3&K tried to construct a real narrative to the game that the aforementioned were able to build through the use of an overworld map and tonally consistent atmosphere. Where the levels of Sonic 1 and 2 were essentially non sequiturs, S3&K successfully transitioned stage-to-stage and built up toward a satisfying arc. I remember being taken aback when the first zone changes after being bombed by Robotnik, and for the first time in the series, you felt a sense of purpose behind the level design.

These transitional elements set the stage for why I loved the spectacle platforming of S3&K so much. There are so many moments in this game that are both fun to play and are amazing to witness--the introduction of Knuckles, the iconic snowboarding level, right up through the space battle with Hyper Sonic--which, by the way, is the greatest endgame of any game on this list.

The gameplay is also vastly improved over the other games in the series. Adding the elemental power-ups changes the dynamic of the levels in the best way possible. The bosses are amazingly huge and more dynamic than ever before. The addition of Knuckles makes exploration genuinely fun instead of a tedious search for all the rings. And I could be wrong, but game also feels faster than the previous iterations--or at least less punishing when you do try to speed through it.

If not for this game, I would consider the 2D Sonic series a bust. But S3&K redeems it in every way and, to me, represents everything that the series should be. If Sonic Mania is anything like it, then sign me up.

Not good
11. Sonic the Hedgehog

Fine
10. Sonic the Hedgehog 2

Great
9. Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble!
8. Super Mario Bros.
7. Donkey Kong Country

Excellent
6. Super Mario Bros. 2 (US)
5. Super Mario World

Spectacular
4. Sonic 3 & Knuckles
3.

All-timers
2.
1.
---

Nelson_Mandela posted...

after the release of games like Donkey Kong Country

DKC came out after Sonic & Knuckles <_<
---

Jakyl25 posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

after the release of games like Donkey Kong Country

DKC came out after Sonic & Knuckles <_<

Did it really? Oh well haha
---

I'm guessing:

3. Yoshi's Island
2. SMB3
1. DKC2

for the rest of the list.

Now, since the DKC soundtrack has been touched on earlier in the topic, I'd like to know if there are any particular tracks that stand out for people in the DKC series (or the other series in this topic, for that matter).

"Bramble Blast" from DKC2 is a favorite of mine:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73n7HTcmb5g" data-time="

I'll throw in "Busted Bayou" from DKC Tropical Freeze as well. The flute bit gives it a Jethro Tull quality:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95HuSMQSUVo" data-time="
---

oh god I go back and forth all the time... a VERY quick top 5 of mine would look something like:
Stickerbush Symphony [this is the "Bramble Blast" level theme]
Forest Interlude
Mining Melancholy
Aquatic Ambience
Hot Head Bop
---

But more on that to come...
---

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

after the release of games like Donkey Kong Country

DKC came out after Sonic & Knuckles <_<

Did it really? Oh well haha

Yeah the trilogy was VERY late in the SNES life, intended mainly to prove graphically why the upgrade to Saturn or PS1 wasnt necessary.

DKC3 even hit AFTER THE N64
---

Jakyl25 posted...

DKC3 even hit AFTER THE N64

I knew DKC3 was '96, but my god those three games coming out within 2 years of one another is godlike productivity by Rare.
---

Rare is (was?) a very prolific studio

Even during those DKC years they were putting out Killer Instinct in arcades
---

Sonic 3 & Knuckles is the best in the series, bar none. Don't understand how some people can prefer Sonic 2, in spite of that goddamn barrel in Carnival Night (it even inspired me to search a solution online and discover GameFAQs). Hydrocity is even the first water level that isn't a complete chore to play.
---

Jakyl25 posted...

Rare is (was?) a very prolific studio

Even during those DKC years they were putting out Killer Instinct in arcades

And its console port too. KI SNES was the shit when I was ten.
---

So for real, what should my next little foray into must-play games be? Happy to choose from:

NES
SNES
N64
GC
Wii
SMS
Genesis
GB/C
GBA
PS1-3
360

Ideally it would be a relatively quick playthrough where I could put the game down for a week or two at a time and pick right back up where I left off.
---

So nothing too storyline intensive...

KINGDOM HEARTS
---

rank the lucasarts adventure games (so monkey island, fate of atlantis, sam and max, day of the tentacle, full throttle, the dig, loom, grim fandango, etc.)
---

Jakyl25 posted...

So nothing too storyline intensive...

KINGDOM HEARTS

I tried and I thought it was the most bizarre thing I'd ever seen. Reminded me of a David Lynch movie but I think it was unintentional.
---

Mr Crispy posted...

rank the lucasarts adventure games (so monkey island, fate of atlantis, sam and max, day of the tentacle, full throttle, the dig, loom, grim fandango, etc.)

I adore Grim Fandango but I don't have a PC that can play games right now :(
---

Resident Evil games?

Yes they have a plot but come on
---

How about the Mega Man and/or Mega Man X series? Rank the games, and maybe do concurrent rankings of top ten bits of music and robot masters/mavericks.
---

Seph is gonna run into a difficulty wall right with Mega Man 1 <_<
---