Current Events > Trump's base is weird. They all hate immigrants and are terrified of Muslims.

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Guide
11/05/18 1:59:15 PM
#51:


Vertania posted...
metralo posted...
but this is demonstrably untrue (obama was one of the most christian presidents we have ever had) while trump and his base frequently talk about how we need to ban muslims (trump has already tried this) and mexicans ("illegal mexicans", but its pretty obvious that's not all they mean)

try an argument that isn't complete shit, thanks

But there definitely were people who supported Obama who spread anti-American messages and were against religion/Christianity.

My point is that it's incredibly stupid to take what a portion of supporters believe and blanket it as if literally all of them believe it.


There a gap in how many on the left support stupid shit like in your example, and the right, which has Fox News as a major news source. Straight up lies on the daily for a huge audience.
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OctilIery
11/05/18 2:00:21 PM
#52:


Have any states hit with major islamic terror attacks been red states? Florida is a swing state, New York and California are blue, but I'm blanking on other major attacks.
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The Great Muta 22
11/05/18 2:00:44 PM
#53:


Pepys Monster posted...
The Great Muta 22 posted...
Pepys Monster posted...
Dash_Harber posted...
They also believe conspiracies about government super weapons and think they can single-handedly fight off a tyrannical government with guns from their local K-mart.

This probably sounded clever in your head, but K-mart has never sold guns. You also don't seem to understand that the US military, despite its might, has had trouble with guerrilla warfare in the middle east for 17+ years now.


There's a bit of a difference between guerrilla warfare on the other side of the globe in treacherous conditions and in an impoverished region compared to it happening in the US.

Do you want to explain what you're trying to get at?


Armed militias made up of citizens trying to over throw the federal government in this nation would be put down almost immediately. It's one thing to be fighting radicals in Afghanistan in regards to supplies and the availability of troops, or the issues with communication and surveillance. It's quite another it it happened on US soil.
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Guide
11/05/18 2:01:47 PM
#54:


Pepys Monster posted...
Dash_Harber posted...
They also believe conspiracies about government super weapons and think they can single-handedly fight off a tyrannical government with guns from their local K-mart.

This probably sounded clever in your head, but K-mart has never sold guns. You also don't seem to understand that the US military, despite its might, has had trouble with guerrilla warfare in the middle east for 17+ years now.


I know they were still selling rifles in the 00s, when did that stop?
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The Great Muta 22
11/05/18 2:05:02 PM
#55:


Guide posted...
Pepys Monster posted...
Dash_Harber posted...
They also believe conspiracies about government super weapons and think they can single-handedly fight off a tyrannical government with guns from their local K-mart.

This probably sounded clever in your head, but K-mart has never sold guns. You also don't seem to understand that the US military, despite its might, has had trouble with guerrilla warfare in the middle east for 17+ years now.


I know they were still selling rifles in the 00s, when did that stop?


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kmart-kills-ammunition-sales/

But some of those shelves soon will be empty as Kmart phases out the sale of handgun ammunition over the next three months.

Company officials made the announcement Thursday following meetings that included company executives, a prominent gun-control advocate and victims of the 1999 Columbine High School shooting.

Kmart stores have not carried handguns since the 1970s, but still sell hunting rifles and other long guns.

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Guide
11/05/18 2:08:48 PM
#56:


...Yeah. That says what I said.

but still sell hunting rifles and other long guns.


It doesn't say that they stopped doing it.
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The Great Muta 22
11/05/18 2:10:46 PM
#57:


Guide posted...
...Yeah. That says what I said.


I know, I was just posting it to point out how that guy was wrong.
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Webmaster4531
11/05/18 2:11:09 PM
#58:


Guide posted...
...Yeah. That says what I said.

but still sell hunting rifles and other long guns.


It doesn't say that they stopped doing it.

Sometimes people reply trying to help not disprove what they're replying to.
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Pepys Monster
11/05/18 2:12:09 PM
#59:


The Great Muta 22 posted...
Pepys Monster posted...
The Great Muta 22 posted...
Pepys Monster posted...
Dash_Harber posted...
They also believe conspiracies about government super weapons and think they can single-handedly fight off a tyrannical government with guns from their local K-mart.

This probably sounded clever in your head, but K-mart has never sold guns. You also don't seem to understand that the US military, despite its might, has had trouble with guerrilla warfare in the middle east for 17+ years now.


There's a bit of a difference between guerrilla warfare on the other side of the globe in treacherous conditions and in an impoverished region compared to it happening in the US.

Do you want to explain what you're trying to get at?


Armed militias made up of citizens trying to over throw the federal government in this nation would be put down almost immediately. It's one thing to be fighting radicals in Afghanistan in regards to supplies and the availability of troops, or the issues with communication and surveillance. It's quite another it it happened on US soil.

So in your fantasy, the US military wins effortlessly against guerrilla warfare on US soil, even though in real life, the US military lost the Vietnam War and the Afghanistan War is still dragging on after 17 years. Okay, believe what you want. Just because you would be too scared to fight a tyrannical government, that doesn't mean there wouldn't be a resistance.
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Guide
11/05/18 2:14:34 PM
#60:


Webmaster4531 posted...
Guide posted...
...Yeah. That says what I said.

but still sell hunting rifles and other long guns.


It doesn't say that they stopped doing it.

Sometimes people reply trying to help not disprove what they're replying to.


Hey, my bad. It looks like he was replying to me to answer, you know? That's usually the format, but still

@The_Great_Muta_22 Excuse me.
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Guide
11/05/18 2:15:50 PM
#61:


Pepys Monster posted...
The Great Muta 22 posted...
Pepys Monster posted...
The Great Muta 22 posted...
Pepys Monster posted...
Dash_Harber posted...
They also believe conspiracies about government super weapons and think they can single-handedly fight off a tyrannical government with guns from their local K-mart.

This probably sounded clever in your head, but K-mart has never sold guns. You also don't seem to understand that the US military, despite its might, has had trouble with guerrilla warfare in the middle east for 17+ years now.


There's a bit of a difference between guerrilla warfare on the other side of the globe in treacherous conditions and in an impoverished region compared to it happening in the US.

Do you want to explain what you're trying to get at?


Armed militias made up of citizens trying to over throw the federal government in this nation would be put down almost immediately. It's one thing to be fighting radicals in Afghanistan in regards to supplies and the availability of troops, or the issues with communication and surveillance. It's quite another it it happened on US soil.

So in your fantasy, the US military wins effortlessly against guerrilla warfare on US soil, even though in real life, the US military lost the Vietnam War and the Afghanistan War is still dragging on after 17 years. Okay, believe what you want. Just because you would be too scared to fight a tyrannical government, that doesn't mean there wouldn't be a resistance.


You're talking about a war with the best possible logistics and established enforcement for the US army, compared to the chaos of the Middle East?
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The Great Muta 22
11/05/18 2:17:39 PM
#62:


Pepys Monster posted...
So in your fantasy, the US military wins effortlessly against guerrilla warfare on US soil, even though in real life, the US military lost the Vietnam War and the Afghanistan War is still dragging on after 17 years. Okay, believe what you want. Just because you would be too scared to fight a tyrannical government, that doesn't mean there wouldn't be a resistance.


Again, there's a major difference between a foreign military engagement and one happening on US soil. I never said there wouldn't be a resistance, but I think it's crazy to equate the two scenarios.
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The Great Muta 22
11/05/18 2:18:16 PM
#63:


Guide posted...
Hey, my bad. It looks like he was replying to me to answer, you know? That's usually the format, but still

@The_Great_Muta_22 Excuse me.


No problem lol, I phrased it kind of shitty anyway
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Webmaster4531
11/05/18 2:20:27 PM
#64:


Pepys Monster posted...
Afghanistan War is still dragging on after 17 years.

That's because we're not tyrannical monsters practicing genocide. I don't get why people assume in these doomsday scenarios they need people as a resource especially as automation gets closer and closer.
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Roxborough4Ever
11/05/18 4:39:47 PM
#65:


RebelElite791 posted...
Zikten posted...
hockeybub89 posted...
They hate fundamental Muslims despite also being conservatives that want religion to influence law.

they want THEIR religion to influence laws, not a foreign one. it's been like that for all human history. in the crusades, you had super zealus muslims fighting super zealus christians. both sides were very religious, but it was a different religion so they argued and fought

Islam is not a foreign religion and the US is not a Christian country


ahhhhhhh......now I understand why your logic is completely broken.....you think the USA is a future Islamic state or something, or at least you want it to be in your mind
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RickyTheBAWSE
11/05/18 4:40:34 PM
#66:


did Vertania and Lorenzo_2003 flee after being hit with facts ITT?

they'll make an appearance in the next topic to make some more shit up, too.
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The Great Muta 22
11/05/18 4:41:13 PM
#67:


Roxborough4Ever posted...
RebelElite791 posted...
Zikten posted...
hockeybub89 posted...
They hate fundamental Muslims despite also being conservatives that want religion to influence law.

they want THEIR religion to influence laws, not a foreign one. it's been like that for all human history. in the crusades, you had super zealus muslims fighting super zealus christians. both sides were very religious, but it was a different religion so they argued and fought

Islam is not a foreign religion and the US is not a Christian country


ahhhhhhh......now I understand why your logic is completely broken.....you think the USA is a future Islamic state or something, or at least you want it to be in your mind


Lmao how in the world did you get that from what was said?
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Roxborough4Ever
11/05/18 4:47:31 PM
#68:


he practices denying reality to preach his own.
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RickyTheBAWSE
11/05/18 5:01:14 PM
#69:


Roxborough4Ever posted...
he practices denying reality to preach his own.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3hTwsvJV_A" data-time="

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Dash_Harber
11/05/18 5:40:20 PM
#70:


The Great Muta 22 posted...
Pepys Monster posted...
The Great Muta 22 posted...
Pepys Monster posted...
Dash_Harber posted...
They also believe conspiracies about government super weapons and think they can single-handedly fight off a tyrannical government with guns from their local K-mart.

This probably sounded clever in your head, but K-mart has never sold guns. You also don't seem to understand that the US military, despite its might, has had trouble with guerrilla warfare in the middle east for 17+ years now.


There's a bit of a difference between guerrilla warfare on the other side of the globe in treacherous conditions and in an impoverished region compared to it happening in the US.

Do you want to explain what you're trying to get at?


Armed militias made up of citizens trying to over throw the federal government in this nation would be put down almost immediately. It's one thing to be fighting radicals in Afghanistan in regards to supplies and the availability of troops, or the issues with communication and surveillance. It's quite another it it happened on US soil.


I missed the post because I have him on ignore, but the whole thing is the most ridiculous scenario for so many reasons;
1. The US government would never declare war on civilians. It makes no fucking sense and no one would ever do it. Nor would a single person or small group be able to declare a revolution on there own at a moments notice. What we would get is martial law.
2. There is this weird idea that all military veterans would just go AWOL and join up with civilians to fight the government. This is equally stupid because A) They are literally trained on how to implement martial law, B) They would likely be told it was to keep order and prevent chaos, C) If the entire military stopped obeying orders, there would cease to be any actual conflict since the government is actually a rather small amount of the population versus the entire civilian and military population, and D) We have countless examples of martial law being implemented and I'm struggling to think of a single case where the military suddenly joined the revolutionaries to overthrow the government.
3. This whole, "what about the guerillas in X" argument is insane because they are two radically different situations. Both Vietnam and Afghanistan were rather far away, in hostile foreign territory, where there was limited recon. In the former's case, they were armed and trained by foreign powers, and in the latter, they were trained and supplied by the US. In all those cases, the government didn't control the power grid, or the supply routes. In the case of the US, the government already has plans in place for situations like this, whereas the imaginary revolutionaries have, what, the imaginary plans they made on their weekend hunting trips with the boys?
4. The idea that there would be a clear divide is hilariously naive. To think that, overnight, with zero prior communication, that Christian Republicans from Texas and Atheist Democrats from New York are going to have lines of communication already open to call each other in this fantasy scenario to organize a national resistance overnight, is absolutely insane. Just look at China pre-WWII. This also assumes that the government is a single entity that can make decisions like that with zero resistance.
5. Even if we ignore all of that and pretend it 'could' happen, you still have to see the hypocrisy in these conspiracy nuts, who overwhelming support military spending and believe in DARPA super weapon conspiracy theories, think that despite these 'super weapons' they can still win so long as they have an AR15.
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Pepys Monster
11/05/18 5:51:22 PM
#71:


Dash_Harber posted...
I missed the post because I have him on ignore

Somebody needed his safe space.
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The Great Muta 22
11/05/18 6:07:29 PM
#72:


Pepys Monster posted...
Dash_Harber posted...
I missed the post because I have him on ignore

Somebody needed his safe space.


That actually says nothing to counter his take down of your asinine belief that due to the US military struggling in Nam and Afghanistan that they would struggle against a civilian led militia on home soil.
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Dash_Harber
11/05/18 6:10:58 PM
#73:


The Great Muta 22 posted...
Pepys Monster posted...
Dash_Harber posted...
I missed the post because I have him on ignore

Somebody needed his safe space.


That actually says nothing to counter his take down of your asinine belief that due to the US military struggling in Nam and Afghanistan that they would struggle against a civilian led militia on home soil.


The ironic part is that, because he is incapable of actually countering anything I said and is too emotionally stunted to admit it, he is trying to create his own snowflake safe space by isolating himself with obnoxious behavior.
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Vertania
11/05/18 7:00:07 PM
#74:


RickyTheBAWSE posted...
did Vertania and Lorenzo_2003 flee after being hit with facts ITT?

they'll make an appearance in the next topic to make some more shit up, too.

Some of us do have jobs, you know.

Besides, everyone purposefully ignored my point, so there was nothing more to add.
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brestugo
11/05/18 7:29:18 PM
#75:


Party of Lincoln.
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Lorenzo_2003
11/05/18 10:03:24 PM
#76:


RickyTheBAWSE posted...
did Vertania and Lorenzo_2003 flee after being hit with facts ITT?

they'll make an appearance in the next topic to make some more shit up, too.


@RickyTheBAWSE

What? You know some of us have shit to do and don't live in the States, right? I don't even have the same timezone as most of you. Red Dead 2, Soul Calibur 6 and prep for a Tekken tourney are also taking up my time.

I will add that I don't like to bother replying if it's obvious people are being disingenuous. Antifar and Samurontai made arguments that are not based on church doctrine. That does not mean individuals don't have their own differing views. But seriously, go into a typical Christian church and ask them if they will pay for an abortion. Or call up the Vatican or a Baptist church and ask if they'll marry two people of the same sex. Everybody already knows what the answer is. There's no need to be dishonest about it. And their opposition to gay people is one of the reasons why I left that religion anyway.
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RickyTheBAWSE
11/05/18 10:05:44 PM
#77:


Vertania posted...
RickyTheBAWSE posted...
did Vertania and Lorenzo_2003 flee after being hit with facts ITT?

they'll make an appearance in the next topic to make some more shit up, too.

Some of us do have jobs, you know.

Besides, everyone purposefully ignored my point, so there was nothing more to add.


many of us with jobs can respond while on the job. whatever your target was, you missed.

what non-strawman point did you make that was supposedly ignored? if it was a typical unrelated deflection, how do you think it contributes to the discussion at hand without making another straw man point to defend the first?
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TroutPaste
11/05/18 10:06:44 PM
#78:


Ultima Dragon posted...
How is that any different from feminists supporting Muslim immigration/Sharia law?


what?
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Vertania
11/05/18 10:10:18 PM
#79:


RickyTheBAWSE posted...
what non-strawman point did you make that was supposedly ignored? if it was a typical unrelated deflection, how do you think it contributes to the discussion at hand without making another straw man point to defend the first?

Vertania posted...
My point is that it's incredibly stupid to take what a portion of supporters believe and blanket it as if literally all of them believe it.
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RickyTheBAWSE
11/05/18 10:15:22 PM
#80:


Lorenzo_2003 posted...
RickyTheBAWSE posted...
did Vertania and Lorenzo_2003 flee after being hit with facts ITT?

they'll make an appearance in the next topic to make some more shit up, too.


RickyTheBAWSE

What? You know some of us have shit to do and don't live in the States, right? I don't even have the same timezone as most of you. Red Dead 2, Soul Calibur 6 and prep for a Tekken tourney are also taking up my time.

I will add that I don't like to bother replying if it's obvious people are being disingenuous. Antifar and Samurontai made arguments that are not based on church doctrine. That does not mean individuals don't have their own differing views. But seriously, go into a typical Christian church and ask them if they will pay for an abortion. Or call up the Vatican or a Baptist church and ask if they'll marry two people of the same sex. Everybody already knows what the answer is. There's no need to be dishonest about it. And their opposition to gay people is one of the reasons why I left that religion anyway.


baseless speculation from a non-American living vicariously through random Americans on the internet?

I'm sorry, but you don't even belong in the conversation. you're not even a player in the game. you're just shouting shit from the bleachers.
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RickyTheBAWSE
11/05/18 10:16:12 PM
#81:


Vertania posted...
RickyTheBAWSE posted...
what non-strawman point did you make that was supposedly ignored? if it was a typical unrelated deflection, how do you think it contributes to the discussion at hand without making another straw man point to defend the first?

Vertania posted...
My point is that it's incredibly stupid to take what a portion of supporters believe and blanket it as if literally all of them believe it.


who said all?

I'll wait. sounds like a straw man.
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Vertania
11/05/18 10:18:09 PM
#82:


RickyTheBAWSE posted...
who said all?

I'll wait. sounds like a straw man.

It's literally in the fucking topic title.
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Lorenzo_2003
11/05/18 10:38:44 PM
#83:


RickyTheBAWSE posted...
baseless speculation from a non-American living vicariously through random Americans on the internet?

I'm sorry, but you don't even belong in the conversation. you're not even a player in the game. you're just shouting shit from the bleachers.


@RickyTheBAWSE

I'm going to be as polite about this as possible because you're one of the smart posters on this site, though you seem mad about this conversation.

I am an American, but I live abroad. You, maybe, could make an argument that my opinion does not matter as much because I do not live in the continental US, but you can't make that argument based on my citizenship. That's all I'm going to say about that because only MuayThai85 and Gavi love giving out personal information about themselves.
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RickyTheBAWSE
11/05/18 10:41:38 PM
#84:


Vertania posted...
RickyTheBAWSE posted...
who said all?

I'll wait. sounds like a straw man.

It's literally in the fucking topic title.


so is your argument about his supporters or his base? the OP specified his base. your argument, which I called a straw man, was about people that just support him.

do you understand the difference between the two and how conflating them is dangerous?

so your argument is either an unintentional straw man due to a lack of understanding somewhere, OR you are defending his base and intentionally conflating base vs supporters.
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Leanaunfurled
11/05/18 10:43:04 PM
#85:


This sums up my thoughts on the matter: https://bit.ly/2F7SH7r
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RickyTheBAWSE
11/05/18 10:45:15 PM
#86:


Lorenzo_2003 posted...
RickyTheBAWSE posted...
baseless speculation from a non-American living vicariously through random Americans on the internet?

I'm sorry, but you don't even belong in the conversation. you're not even a player in the game. you're just shouting shit from the bleachers.


RickyTheBAWSE

I'm going to be as polite about this as possible because you're one of the smart posters on this site, though you seem mad about this conversation.

I am an American, but I live abroad. You, maybe, could make an argument that my opinion does not matter as much because I do not live in the continental US, but you can't make that argument based on my citizenship. That's all I'm going to say about that because only MuayThai85 and Gavi love giving out personal information about themselves.


see how adding substance to statements frames the context? I understand you now, so thank you for clearing your citizenship up.

with that said, a straw man and deflection are still straw man and deflection. what are you disagreeing with in the OP?
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Lorenzo_2003
11/05/18 10:54:06 PM
#87:


RickyTheBAWSE posted...
with that said, a straw man and deflection are still straw man and deflection. what are you disagreeing with in the OP?


Nah, I didn't even touch on OP's statement really. Somebody mentioned feminism and Sharia, then somebody else mentioned Christians. It roped me in, I guess.
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Vertania
11/05/18 11:16:11 PM
#88:


RickyTheBAWSE posted...
so is your argument about his supporters or his base? the OP specified his base. your argument, which I called a straw man, was about people that just support him.

do you understand the difference between the two and how conflating them is dangerous?

so your argument is either an unintentional straw man due to a lack of understanding somewhere, OR you are defending his base and intentionally conflating base vs supporters.

lol imagine resorting to this line of nitpicking because you didn't read the topic title

added random bold/italics since i guess that makes you think it sounds smarter
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creativerealms
11/05/18 11:22:11 PM
#89:


Our economy is doing great with record unemployment and millions of illegals are stealing jobs from Americans. At the same time.
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RickyTheBAWSE
11/05/18 11:23:39 PM
#90:


@Vertania
Vertania posted...
RickyTheBAWSE posted...
so is your argument about his supporters or his base? the OP specified his base. your argument, which I called a straw man, was about people that just support him.

do you understand the difference between the two and how conflating them is dangerous?

so your argument is either an unintentional straw man due to a lack of understanding somewhere, OR you are defending his base and intentionally conflating base vs supporters.

lol imagine resorting to this line of nitpicking because you didn't read the topic title

added random bold/italics since i guess that makes you think it sounds smarter


I add bold and italics for emphasis. because I know I'm dealing with disingenuous folk who routinely misconstrue other people's arguments so they can respond without actually addressing the real argument.

they are cowards. they lack integrity and deserve to be treated as dense as they portray themselves.

if the shoe fits, wear it
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