Current Events > Did God know that Adam and Eve would eat the forbidden fruit?

(+) Yeah! (+)

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YoshitoKikuchi posted...

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Biblical God or Problem of Evil God?
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Yes, he knows everything
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was forbidden fruit 69

or was it an actual fruit
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I believe so, yes.
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Wait

If he knew they would, what was the point? Just to be a dick?
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He's supposedly omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient. There's no way he didn't know anything that he got angry over, including that, Satan turning evil, humanity becoming so bad in his eyes that he needed a great flood, etc.

The only logical conclusions are he's either fictional, he's a total c***, or the Bible's descriptions of him and/or events around him are inaccurate.
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God's supposed to be omniscient and omnipotent so probs
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You guys should probably learn philosophy and then spend some time thinking about free will
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B0xxY2J0sHBK_ posted...

You guys should probably learn philosophy and then spend some time thinking about free will

Such as
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it's all part of his plan
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It's possible that an omniscient being can't see the future entirely, only the present and past. Maybe God has a pretty good idea of what the future holds, but lets freewill and natural laws just run their course.

http://www.philosophyofreligion.info/arguments-for-atheism/problems-with-divine-omniscience/freedom-and-foreknowledge/how-does-god-know-the-future/

There are an infinite number of futures possible depending on our choices. God might predict that I will eat Frosted Flakes for breakfast next Saturday because I eat them every weekend, but I might change my mind or run out of milk because someone else in the family forgot to pick some up on the way back from work Friday night.

kelemvor posted...

It's possible that an omniscient being can't see the future entirely, only the present and past.

Then they aren't omniscient.
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Kombucha posted...

was forbidden fruit 69

or was it an actual fruit

Supposedly it was a pomegranate. Despite the classic view of it being an apple. I saw some documentary about it once. I don't remember why they think it was a pomegranate

The original Old Testament version of God was not omnipotent omniscient and omnipresent, because there are moments in Genesis where he's legitimately unaware that certain things are happening. It wasn't until the Christian revision of God that he was given these properties, which created what was effectively a plot hole due to a retcon.
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Webmaster4531 posted...

kelemvor posted...

It's possible that an omniscient being can't see the future entirely, only the present and past.

Then they aren't omniscient.

It's possible you don't actually know what omniscient means rofl
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Zikten posted...

Kombucha posted...

was forbidden fruit 69

or was it an actual fruit

Supposedly it was a pomegranate. Despite the classic view of it being an apple. I saw some documentary about it once. I don't remember why they think it was a pomegranate

All of it is completely fanon IIRC. It could be a tomato, for all we know. The Bible doesn't go into any detail and most of the theories are based on really spurious apocrypha after the fact.

He gave us free will to make that choice.
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Zikten posted...

Kombucha posted...

was forbidden fruit 69

or was it an actual fruit

Supposedly it was a pomegranate. Despite the classic view of it being an apple. I saw some documentary about it once. I don't remember why they think it was a pomegranate

Interesting, for some reason I always thought the fruit itself was some kind of sexual act before they fell into the sin of reproduction. I'm really on the up and up with abrahamic religions though.
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kelemvor posted...

It's possible that an omniscient being can't see the future entirely, only the present and past. Maybe God has a pretty good idea of what the future holds, but lets freewill and natural laws just run their course.

http://www.philosophyofreligion.info/arguments-for-atheism/problems-with-divine-omniscience/freedom-and-foreknowledge/how-does-god-know-the-future/

There are an infinite number of futures possible depending on our choices. God might predict that I will eat Frosted Flakes for breakfast next Saturday because I eat them every weekend, but I might change my mind or run out of milk because someone else in the family forgot to pick some up on the way back from work Friday night.

Jeez man I forgot to bring milk back ONE time
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TiamatLover posted...

He's supposedly omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient. There's no way he didn't know anything that he got angry over, including that, Satan turning evil, humanity becoming so bad in his eyes that he needed a great flood, etc.

The only logical conclusions are he's either fictional, he's a total c***, or the Bible's descriptions of him and/or events around him are inaccurate.

This is really all there fucking is to it.

And I'm not buying inaccuracy.
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VectorChaos posted...

TiamatLover posted...

He's supposedly omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient. There's no way he didn't know anything that he got angry over, including that, Satan turning evil, humanity becoming so bad in his eyes that he needed a great flood, etc.

The only logical conclusions are he's either fictional, he's a total c***, or the Bible's descriptions of him and/or events around him are inaccurate.

This is really all there fucking is to it.

Or athiests try to argue the Bible without actually have read it. Everything is pretty solid. There is a reason religion and philosophy go hand in hand.
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B0xxY2J0sHBK_ posted...

You guys should probably learn philosophy and then spend some time thinking about free will

free will doesn't exist if you tell people they'll be tortured for eternity for making the wrong choices
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thronedfire2 posted...

B0xxY2J0sHBK_ posted...

You guys should probably learn philosophy and then spend some time thinking about free will

free will doesn't exist if you tell people they'll be tortured for eternity for making the wrong choices

Sure it does. You can choose to either turn to God or away from God. The former gets you to heaven and the latter gets you to Hell. I'm not sure how you reached your conclusion
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B0xxY2J0sHBK_ posted...

VectorChaos posted...

TiamatLover posted...

He's supposedly omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient. There's no way he didn't know anything that he got angry over, including that, Satan turning evil, humanity becoming so bad in his eyes that he needed a great flood, etc.

The only logical conclusions are he's either fictional, he's a total c***, or the Bible's descriptions of him and/or events around him are inaccurate.

This is really all there fucking is to it.

Or athiests try to argue the Bible without actually have read it. Everything is pretty solid. There is a reason religion and philosophy go hand in hand.

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B0xxY2J0sHBK_ posted...

thronedfire2 posted...

B0xxY2J0sHBK_ posted...

You guys should probably learn philosophy and then spend some time thinking about free will

free will doesn't exist if you tell people they'll be tortured for eternity for making the wrong choices

Sure it does. You can choose to either turn to God or away from God. The former gets you to heaven and the latter gets you to Hell. I'm not sure how you reached your conclusion

That's a false dichotomy, what happens to the people who are ignorant of the religion? Growing up never hearing about God? What happens to them? Do they get punished for something that is out of their hands?
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B0xxY2J0sHBK_ posted...

Webmaster4531 posted...

kelemvor posted...

It's possible that an omniscient being can't see the future entirely, only the present and past.

Then they aren't omniscient.

It's possible you don't actually know what omniscient means rofl

Oh, please enlighten me.
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Prestoff posted...

B0xxY2J0sHBK_ posted...

thronedfire2 posted...

B0xxY2J0sHBK_ posted...

You guys should probably learn philosophy and then spend some time thinking about free will

free will doesn't exist if you tell people they'll be tortured for eternity for making the wrong choices

Sure it does. You can choose to either turn to God or away from God. The former gets you to heaven and the latter gets you to Hell. I'm not sure how you reached your conclusion

That's a false dichotomy, what happens to the people who are ignorant of the religion? Growing up never hearing about God? What happens to them? Do they get punished for something that is out of their hands?

No. They get a free pass.
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did god know Id eat it like groceries
also yes
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I thought the forbidden fruit was black cherry
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God gave them a choice. That outcome was dependent on them.
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Touch posted...

I thought the forbidden fruit was black cherry

You've never seen the depiction of the snake and the apple?
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Kombucha posted...

Touch posted...

I thought the forbidden fruit was black cherry

You've never seen the depiction of the snake and the apple?

I was uh...tryna make a sexy joke <__<
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so like uh
why did god even put the forbidden fruit within reach exactly
better yet, why did he give it any powers
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DeltaRayquaza posted...

so like uh
why did god even put the forbidden fruit within reach exactly
better yet, why did he give it any powers

Christians will argue that he is 'good' and thus had to give them free will, and the temptation was a test of their character which they failed. Whether you accept this, or not, they are pretty clear about that.

kelemvor posted...

It's possible that an omniscient being can't see the future entirely, only the present and past. Maybe God has a pretty good idea of what the future holds, but lets freewill and natural laws just run their course.

http://www.philosophyofreligion.info/arguments-for-atheism/problems-with-divine-omniscience/freedom-and-foreknowledge/how-does-god-know-the-future/

There are an infinite number of futures possible depending on our choices. God might predict that I will eat Frosted Flakes for breakfast next Saturday because I eat them every weekend, but I might change my mind or run out of milk because someone else in the family forgot to pick some up on the way back from work Friday night.

This doesn't hold up. If God's wrong, then he's not infallible.
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DeltaRayquaza posted...

so like uh
why did god even put the forbidden fruit within reach exactly
better yet, why did he give it any powers

For starters, it didn't have any powers unless you are arguing the ability to know shame is a power but that was more about betraying God. And yes, it was a test. And the most important thing is, the story is an allegory
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bump
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It is an interesting question.

The new testament says salvation was planned before the foundation of the world.

This means the cross was planned before adam was created.

There is still the question of if it was known to be needed or a just in case plan.

Alternatively, it could be that this is a monte carlo simulation where sometimes they eat the fruit and sometimes they don't.
In the realities where they do, the plan is needed and Jesus fulfills it.
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Touch posted...

Kombucha posted...

Touch posted...

I thought the forbidden fruit was black cherry

You've never seen the depiction of the snake and the apple?

I was uh...tryna make a sexy joke <__<

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I think of it like this:

The future isn't a static. What I mean by that is, what's going to happen isn't set in stone. It may be that god sees the past, present and future as a web, with many different paths. He sees all possibilities that could happen, but we humans actually pick the path through our free will.

Yes, he likely knew that them eating of the fruit was one of the possibilities. However, he also likely knew what would had happened if they had took the path where they didn't eat of it.

Compare it to this. A scientist with a maze full of rats. The scientist has a panoramic view of the entire maze. Where each path leads. Some lead to a dead end, while others lead to the prize. We are the rats, god is the scientist.

This is all assuming that god exits, which is a question I feel that most people don't have an answer for.
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s0nicfan posted...

The original Old Testament version of God was not omnipotent omniscient and omnipresent, because there are moments in Genesis where he's legitimately unaware that certain things are happening. It wasn't until the Christian revision of God that he was given these properties, which created what was effectively a plot hole due to a retcon.

What exactly are you referring to?
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Go look up "if man obeyed God".

He did not know they were going to eat it.
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Dyinglegacy posted...

I think of it like this:

The future isn't a static. What I mean by that is, what's going to happen isn't set in stone. It may be that god sees the past, present and future as a web, with many different paths. He sees all possibilities that could happen, but we humans actually pick the path through our free will.

Yes, he likely knew that them eating of the fruit was one of the possibilities. However, he also likely knew what would had happened if they had took the path where they didn't eat of it.

Compare it to this. A scientist with a maze full of rats. The scientist has a panoramic view of the entire maze. Where each path leads. Some lead to a dead end, while others lead to the prize. We are the rats, god is the scientist.

This is all assuming that god exits, which is a question I feel that most people don't have an answer for.

What if at the same time there exists a reality where they did not eat the fruit?

Adding multiple worlds theory to this makes it quite interesting philosophically.

Then it is no longer a question of "how did God not know they would disobey" and more of "what is to be gained from permuatations of creation with differing outcomes."
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If Adam and Eve hadn't eaten the fruit, then God would have no reason to be born as Jesus and pray to himself on the cross when he died and Christianity wouldn't exist.
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uwnim posted...

He did not know they were going to eat it.

Here is the verse that says he did:

1 peter 1
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
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darkphoenix181 posted...

uwnim posted...

He did not know they were going to eat it.

Here is the verse that says he did:

1 peter 1
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

I do believe that is from the new testament and is just what a guy thought about that stuff.
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uwnim posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

uwnim posted...

He did not know they were going to eat it.

Here is the verse that says he did:

1 peter 1
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

I do believe that is from the new testament and is just what a guy thought about that stuff.

Relevant to Christianity, Peter is speaking with authority and miraculous insight into these things. It is not just a guy's opinion anymore than you would consider genesis the opinion of the writer there.
Ofc this changes if you are not a christian, but then what are you? Jewish?
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darkphoenix181 posted...

s0nicfan posted...

The original Old Testament version of God was not omnipotent omniscient and omnipresent, because there are moments in Genesis where he's legitimately unaware that certain things are happening. It wasn't until the Christian revision of God that he was given these properties, which created what was effectively a plot hole due to a retcon.

What exactly are you referring to?

The Jewish vs Christian interpretation of the Genesis story with regard to when it was written vs how it is perceived now.

The Jewish God didn't start off as an omnipotent being, nor was he even the only God.
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