Current Events > A little bit of logic with the Kavanaugh case.

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coolcono
10/01/18 3:42:34 PM
#1:


Why did she wait til now to report the case?
She had more than 2 decades to report it.
Reporting it now, if any time, would make her more a target for hostility from the public. Right now is probably the worst time to report it.
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green butter
10/01/18 3:44:53 PM
#2:


because she wanted to put an unpleasant & probably traumatic sexual encounter behind her and get on with her life, and was probably able to do so with some degree of success until the guy who assaulted her became a nominee for the supreme court and a household name that she would have to endure until either she or kavanaugh died?
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WhyGiveUp
10/01/18 3:45:26 PM
#3:


Here's some logic:

Whether he's guilty or not of the sexual stuff, a perjurer and partisan hack such as himself has no place on the highest court in the nation.
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Twin3Turbo
10/01/18 3:46:12 PM
#4:


There are cases where we KNOW something happened where victims waited very long periods of time before saying anything. Using that alone as a reason to disbelieve is not a good one.
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s0nicfan
10/01/18 3:46:28 PM
#5:


That's not logic, and this is coming from someone who thinks he didn't do it. Victims often wait for years before ever mentioning it, often out of a misguided sense of shame. There are lots of reasons to believe that her memory might not be right, but using the "she waited" argument isn't one of them.
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coolcono
10/01/18 3:46:28 PM
#6:


green butter posted...
because she wanted to put an unpleasant & probably traumatic sexual encounter behind her and get on with her life, and was probably able to do so with some degree of success until the guy who assaulted her became a nominee for the supreme court and a household name that she would have to endure until either she or kavanaugh died?

Well, if she were worried about her safety. Right now would the worst time to bring it, dontcha think?
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s0nicfan
10/01/18 3:47:34 PM
#7:


coolcono posted...
green butter posted...
because she wanted to put an unpleasant & probably traumatic sexual encounter behind her and get on with her life, and was probably able to do so with some degree of success until the guy who assaulted her became a nominee for the supreme court and a household name that she would have to endure until either she or kavanaugh died?

Well, if she were worried about her safety. Right now would the worst time to bring it, dontcha think?


That'd hold ground if she actually came forward, but in case you forgot she submitted a letter in July and specifically requested NOT to be named and it was leaked for partisan reasons.
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andel
10/01/18 3:47:36 PM
#8:


kavanaugh is scum is and rightfully being called out, just like half the gop
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green butter
10/01/18 3:48:26 PM
#9:


coolcono posted...
green butter posted...
because she wanted to put an unpleasant & probably traumatic sexual encounter behind her and get on with her life, and was probably able to do so with some degree of success until the guy who assaulted her became a nominee for the supreme court and a household name that she would have to endure until either she or kavanaugh died?

Well, if she were worried about her safety. Right now would the worst time to bring it, dontcha think?

it takes courage. if she didnt speak now he would be 1 of 9 people determining the laws for her country until he dies.

edit: also ford came forward publicly because the media outed her, the charges were filed anonymously at first
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TheBiggerWiggle
10/01/18 3:49:07 PM
#10:


> claims to use logic
> blames the victim

Been seeing this shit too much on CE the last few days.
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Anteaterking
10/01/18 3:49:43 PM
#11:


coolcono posted...
Why did she wait til now to report the case?
She had more than 2 decades to report it.
Reporting it now, if any time, would make her more a target for hostility from the public. Right now is probably the worst time to report it.


She tried to report it to the Trump administration before they chose Kavanaugh as their nominee, in which case she would likely never have become a public target.
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sktgamer_13dude
10/01/18 3:50:01 PM
#12:


s0nicfan posted...
coolcono posted...
green butter posted...
because she wanted to put an unpleasant & probably traumatic sexual encounter behind her and get on with her life, and was probably able to do so with some degree of success until the guy who assaulted her became a nominee for the supreme court and a household name that she would have to endure until either she or kavanaugh died?

Well, if she were worried about her safety. Right now would the worst time to bring it, dontcha think?


That'd hold ground if she actually came forward, but in case you forgot she submitted a letter in July and specifically requested NOT to be named and it was leaked for partisan reasons.

Gonna start randomly calling people rapists again?
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ComfortablySad
10/01/18 3:50:51 PM
#13:


s0nicfan posted...
coolcono posted...
green butter posted...
because she wanted to put an unpleasant & probably traumatic sexual encounter behind her and get on with her life, and was probably able to do so with some degree of success until the guy who assaulted her became a nominee for the supreme court and a household name that she would have to endure until either she or kavanaugh died?

Well, if she were worried about her safety. Right now would the worst time to bring it, dontcha think?


That'd hold ground if she actually came forward, but in case you forgot she submitted a letter in July and specifically requested NOT to be named and it was leaked for partisan reasons.


Even then it wouldn't hold. Maybe she had moved on and saw this person from her past was about to be on the SCOTUS and had to say something?
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s0nicfan
10/01/18 3:52:23 PM
#14:


ComfortablySad posted...
s0nicfan posted...
coolcono posted...
green butter posted...
because she wanted to put an unpleasant & probably traumatic sexual encounter behind her and get on with her life, and was probably able to do so with some degree of success until the guy who assaulted her became a nominee for the supreme court and a household name that she would have to endure until either she or kavanaugh died?

Well, if she were worried about her safety. Right now would the worst time to bring it, dontcha think?


That'd hold ground if she actually came forward, but in case you forgot she submitted a letter in July and specifically requested NOT to be named and it was leaked for partisan reasons.


Even then it wouldn't hold. Maybe she had moved on and saw this person from her past was about to be on the SCOTUS and had to say something?


Right, but my point was that would likely still have been back in July when he was nominated and she first wrote the letter. It wasn't her choice to be forced into the public eye the week before the vote, so claiming she's not being honest because of the timing is just wrong.
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Tyranthraxus
10/01/18 3:53:07 PM
#15:


coolcono posted...
Why did she wait til now to report the case?
She had more than 2 decades to report it.
Reporting it now, if any time, would make her more a target for hostility from the public. Right now is probably the worst time to report it.

If you want a serious answer.

She sent a private, confidential letter to Diane Feinstein and her team, requesting she NOT share the letter with anyone, or identify her.

Someone leaked the letter anyway because they're an asshole.

Other people went after Ford as a result. Not the other way around. Ford was forcibly put into this position. She didn't publicly accuse Kavanaugh by her own choice.

Hope that clears things up.

But I know it won't.
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nemu
10/01/18 4:05:35 PM
#16:


In itself, it is not a reason to inherently disbelieve, but it does make her less credible in that there is little way of confirming anything at all. Personally, I don't believe her at all. She feels fake, and her inability to remember anything important is really telling. It could just be she was that traumatized about it, but if she claims that she can never forget the event itself, the little details should honestly be ingrained into her brain.
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bloodydeath0
10/01/18 4:08:13 PM
#17:


The one main takeaway here is that Feinstein is evil.
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ledbowman
10/01/18 4:10:36 PM
#18:


nemu posted...
her inability to remember anything important

Brett Kavanaugh trying to rape her is important.
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WhyGiveUp
10/01/18 4:12:00 PM
#19:


bloodydeath0 posted...
The one main takeaway here is that Feinstein is evil.

Also that Blackout Brett is a perjurer and a drunk
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bloodydeath0
10/01/18 4:13:40 PM
#20:


WhyGiveUp posted...
bloodydeath0 posted...
The one main takeaway here is that Feinstein is evil.

Also that Blackout Brett is a perjurer and a drunk

these claims are unsubstantiated
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nemu
10/01/18 4:13:54 PM
#21:


ledbowman posted...
nemu posted...
her inability to remember anything important

Brett Kavanaugh trying to rape her is important.

She's missing the when and where, which is the most important aspect. You can claim anyone anywhere tried to rape you, but it's pointless if all you can give is "probably this year in the town we lived in at some unspecified party that nobody else can corroborate."
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Anteaterking
10/01/18 4:14:05 PM
#22:


nemu posted...
but if she claims that she can never forget the event itself, the little details should honestly be ingrained into her brain.


That's not how it works.
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ledbowman
10/01/18 4:16:36 PM
#23:


nemu posted...
ledbowman posted...
nemu posted...
her inability to remember anything important

Brett Kavanaugh trying to rape her is important.

She's missing the when and where, which is the most important aspect. You can claim anyone anywhere tried to rape you, but it's pointless if all you can give is "probably this year in the town we lived in at some unspecified party that nobody else can corroborate."

Imagine being this shitty.
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nemu
10/01/18 4:17:22 PM
#24:


Anteaterking posted...
nemu posted...
but if she claims that she can never forget the event itself, the little details should honestly be ingrained into her brain.


That's not how it works.

Which is why I said "It could just be she was that traumatized about it." Different people handle stress and PTSD in different ways, but I'm sure if I was reliving something in my own head day in and day out I'd sure as shit remember at very minimum the damn year.
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WhyGiveUp
10/01/18 4:17:27 PM
#25:


bloodydeath0 posted...
WhyGiveUp posted...
bloodydeath0 posted...
The one main takeaway here is that Feinstein is evil.

Also that Blackout Brett is a perjurer and a drunk

these claims are unsubstantiated

No. He's literally lied under oath about easily provable things. As well, a guy yelling about how much he loves beer is certainly a drunk.
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ledbowman
10/01/18 4:19:55 PM
#26:


nemu posted...
Anteaterking posted...
nemu posted...
but if she claims that she can never forget the event itself, the little details should honestly be ingrained into her brain.


That's not how it works.

Which is why I said "It could just be she was that traumatized about it." Different people handle stress and PTSD in different ways, but I'm sure if I was reliving something in my own head day in and day out I'd sure as shit remember at very minimum the damn year.

Wouldn't she give a year if she was lying? And if she was lying, why did she put Brett's buddy in the room as a witness- the only witness?
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nemu
10/01/18 4:20:59 PM
#27:


ledbowman posted...
nemu posted...
ledbowman posted...
nemu posted...
her inability to remember anything important

Brett Kavanaugh trying to rape her is important.

She's missing the when and where, which is the most important aspect. You can claim anyone anywhere tried to rape you, but it's pointless if all you can give is "probably this year in the town we lived in at some unspecified party that nobody else can corroborate."

Imagine being this shitty.

Better than being a bleeding heart who will believe anything at face value because they made you sympathize with them. I can understand if you want to say "regardless of the evidence proving nothing, I believe her," but you act like she has brought any credible testimony to the table.
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Tmaster148
10/01/18 4:22:05 PM
#28:


WhyGiveUp posted...
bloodydeath0 posted...
WhyGiveUp posted...
bloodydeath0 posted...
The one main takeaway here is that Feinstein is evil.

Also that Blackout Brett is a perjurer and a drunk

these claims are unsubstantiated

No. He's literally lied under oath about easily provable things. As well, a guy yelling about how much he loves beer is certainly a drunk.


Like how his dead father was alive behind him.
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ledbowman
10/01/18 4:23:32 PM
#29:


nemu posted...
ledbowman posted...
nemu posted...
ledbowman posted...
nemu posted...
her inability to remember anything important

Brett Kavanaugh trying to rape her is important.

She's missing the when and where, which is the most important aspect. You can claim anyone anywhere tried to rape you, but it's pointless if all you can give is "probably this year in the town we lived in at some unspecified party that nobody else can corroborate."

Imagine being this shitty.

Better than being a bleeding heart who will believe anything at face value because they made you sympathize with them. I can understand if you want to say "regardless of the evidence proving nothing, I believe her," but you act like she has brought any credible testimony to the table.

She has brought literal credible sworn testimony.
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nemu
10/01/18 4:24:42 PM
#30:


ledbowman posted...
nemu posted...
Anteaterking posted...
nemu posted...
but if she claims that she can never forget the event itself, the little details should honestly be ingrained into her brain.


That's not how it works.

Which is why I said "It could just be she was that traumatized about it." Different people handle stress and PTSD in different ways, but I'm sure if I was reliving something in my own head day in and day out I'd sure as shit remember at very minimum the damn year.

Wouldn't she give a year if she was lying? And if she was lying, why did she put Brett's buddy in the room as a witness- the only witness?

That doesn't matter. Nothing along the lines of "well, it makes no sense for her to have lied about X because Y" matters when trying to prove a case. That is a horrible line of thought. I do believe she is lying, but it doesn't necessary mean she is actually being untruthful. That's just my opinion from having watched her fake-sounding testimony. It also doesn't mean Kavanaugh is innocent. She just has not done anything to prove he is guilty, which is the important part.
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ledbowman
10/01/18 4:25:40 PM
#31:


nemu posted...
That doesn't matter.

Lol sad
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nemu
10/01/18 4:28:26 PM
#32:


ledbowman posted...
nemu posted...
That doesn't matter.

Lol sad

Do you really not understand why that line of thought is irrelevant? Trying to say someone is being truthful because it would make no sense for them to lie is just a faulty line of reasoning. People will lie for many, many reasons that someone on the outside will never comprehend.
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s0nicfan
10/01/18 4:29:37 PM
#33:


nemu posted...
ledbowman posted...
nemu posted...
That doesn't matter.

Lol sad

Do you really not understand why that line of thought is irrelevant? Trying to say someone is being truthful because it would make no sense for them to lie is just a faulty line of reasoning. People will lie for many, many reasons that someone on the outside will never comprehend.


Don't bother. led has been touting the "he's a rapist and her isolated testimony is credible enough to prove guilt" line for a while now. You're basically arguing with a wall.
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ledbowman
10/01/18 4:31:43 PM
#34:


nemu posted...
ledbowman posted...
nemu posted...
That doesn't matter.

Lol sad

Do you really not understand why that line of thought is irrelevant? Trying to say someone is being truthful because it would make no sense for them to lie is just a faulty line of reasoning. People will lie for many, many reasons that someone on the outside will never comprehend.

It's not irrelevant but I see how it's inconvenient for you.
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ledbowman
10/01/18 4:32:43 PM
#35:


s0nicfan posted...
nemu posted...
ledbowman posted...
nemu posted...
That doesn't matter.

Lol sad

Do you really not understand why that line of thought is irrelevant? Trying to say someone is being truthful because it would make no sense for them to lie is just a faulty line of reasoning. People will lie for many, many reasons that someone on the outside will never comprehend.


Don't bother. led has been touting the "he's a rapist and her isolated testimony is credible enough to prove guilt" line for a while now. You're basically arguing with a wall.

It's not isolated.
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Doom_Art
10/01/18 4:33:23 PM
#36:


@s0nicfan posted...
Don't bother. led has been touting the "he's a rapist and her isolated testimony is credible enough to prove guilt" line for a while now. You're basically arguing with a wall.

This is somewhat unrelated but did you seriously believe one of Kavanaughs accusers was made up by 4chan?
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s0nicfan
10/01/18 4:36:50 PM
#37:


Doom_Art posted...
s0nicfan posted...
Don't bother. led has been touting the "he's a rapist and her isolated testimony is credible enough to prove guilt" line for a while now. You're basically arguing with a wall.

This is somewhat unrelated but did you seriously believe one of Kavanaughs accusers was made up by 4chan?


No, or at least not now. That was something floating around within the first few hours of Avenatti's twitter going private that was being passed around by a lot of verified people on twitter and the chan post just happened to line up with the timing, so at the time I thought there was a possibility of that being true. In the post where I linked to that picture I unfortunately didn't get a chance to talk about the other people discussing it before being warned (which is the most fair warning of all time. I should have known better before linking to an image from 4chan). It was pretty clear once he provided an actual name that the 4chan thing was bogus.
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nemu
10/01/18 4:38:46 PM
#38:


ledbowman posted...
nemu posted...
ledbowman posted...
nemu posted...
That doesn't matter.

Lol sad

Do you really not understand why that line of thought is irrelevant? Trying to say someone is being truthful because it would make no sense for them to lie is just a faulty line of reasoning. People will lie for many, many reasons that someone on the outside will never comprehend.

It's not irrelevant but I see how it's inconvenient for you.

She lacks any critical details or anyone to corroborate the story. That is fact as of right now. The only thing she has is a description of what she claims to be the incident and that she has told other people about this supposed incident. Without a single person to corroborate the time, date, or place, she only has her word. Your response is basically "well, someone wouldn't lie about such a serious crime." That is not a defense. That is an appeal to emotion. I don't think Kavanaugh is a saint. Even if he didn't commit this crime, it is entirely possible he has committed other crimes. But that is just my initial emotional thought. It is not reality. It cannot be applied to anything.
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SageHarpuia
10/01/18 4:40:43 PM
#39:


Because it's all a stunt to buy time for Democrats to retake the house. Nobody in Washington cares if she was groped or not.
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WhyGiveUp
10/01/18 4:41:59 PM
#40:


SageHarpuia posted...
Because it's all a stunt to buy time for Democrats to retake the house. Nobody in Washington cares if she was groped or not.

The House doesn't matter to SCOTUS confirmation. But Kavanaugh is a drunk who has lied under oath multiple times. How can you think he's fit to sit on SCOTUS?
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ledbowman
10/01/18 4:45:43 PM
#41:


nemu posted...
ledbowman posted...
nemu posted...
ledbowman posted...
nemu posted...
That doesn't matter.

Lol sad

Do you really not understand why that line of thought is irrelevant? Trying to say someone is being truthful because it would make no sense for them to lie is just a faulty line of reasoning. People will lie for many, many reasons that someone on the outside will never comprehend.

It's not irrelevant but I see how it's inconvenient for you.

She lacks any critical details or anyone to corroborate the story. That is fact as of right now. The only thing she has is a description of what she claims to be the incident and that she has told other people about this supposed incident. Without a single person to corroborate the time, date, or place, she only has her word. Your response is basically "well, someone wouldn't lie about such a serious crime." That is not a defense. That is an appeal to emotion. I don't think Kavanaugh is a saint. Even if he didn't commit this crime, it is entirely possible he has committed other crimes. But that is just my initial emotional thought. It is not reality. It cannot be applied to anything.

You're going through a lot to dodge my point. If she was lying, why would she put only Judge there and not someone else on Team Liar to back her up? She has a lot at stake here after all.
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nemu
10/01/18 4:52:44 PM
#42:


ledbowman posted...
nemu posted...
ledbowman posted...
nemu posted...
ledbowman posted...
nemu posted...
That doesn't matter.

Lol sad

Do you really not understand why that line of thought is irrelevant? Trying to say someone is being truthful because it would make no sense for them to lie is just a faulty line of reasoning. People will lie for many, many reasons that someone on the outside will never comprehend.

It's not irrelevant but I see how it's inconvenient for you.

She lacks any critical details or anyone to corroborate the story. That is fact as of right now. The only thing she has is a description of what she claims to be the incident and that she has told other people about this supposed incident. Without a single person to corroborate the time, date, or place, she only has her word. Your response is basically "well, someone wouldn't lie about such a serious crime." That is not a defense. That is an appeal to emotion. I don't think Kavanaugh is a saint. Even if he didn't commit this crime, it is entirely possible he has committed other crimes. But that is just my initial emotional thought. It is not reality. It cannot be applied to anything.

You're going through a lot to dodge my point. If she was lying, why would she put only Judge there and not someone else on Team Liar to back her up? She has a lot at stake here after all.

I don't know. That's a dumb question. I don't know what's going on in this woman's head. There is no gotcha moment to be had here. All I'm saying is that she is lacking very critical details needed to prove her case, and beyond someone credible coming forward to support her, she is unlikely to ever have them. I think she personally seems like a gigantic drama queen faker from her testimony, but that can easily just be personal bias.
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ManBeast462
10/01/18 4:53:48 PM
#43:


coolcono posted...
Why did she wait til now to report the case?
She had more than 2 decades to report it.
Reporting it now, if any time, would make her more a target for hostility from the public. Right now is probably the worst time to report it.


Thats #metoo for you

Wait till youve made your millions from Hollywood or when it is politically convenient, as ammo.
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ledbowman
10/01/18 4:54:52 PM
#44:


nemu posted...
ledbowman posted...
nemu posted...
ledbowman posted...
nemu posted...
ledbowman posted...
nemu posted...
That doesn't matter.

Lol sad

Do you really not understand why that line of thought is irrelevant? Trying to say someone is being truthful because it would make no sense for them to lie is just a faulty line of reasoning. People will lie for many, many reasons that someone on the outside will never comprehend.

It's not irrelevant but I see how it's inconvenient for you.

She lacks any critical details or anyone to corroborate the story. That is fact as of right now. The only thing she has is a description of what she claims to be the incident and that she has told other people about this supposed incident. Without a single person to corroborate the time, date, or place, she only has her word. Your response is basically "well, someone wouldn't lie about such a serious crime." That is not a defense. That is an appeal to emotion. I don't think Kavanaugh is a saint. Even if he didn't commit this crime, it is entirely possible he has committed other crimes. But that is just my initial emotional thought. It is not reality. It cannot be applied to anything.

You're going through a lot to dodge my point. If she was lying, why would she put only Judge there and not someone else on Team Liar to back her up? She has a lot at stake here after all.

I don't know. That's a dumb question. I don't know what's going on in this woman's head. There is no gotcha moment to be had here. All I'm saying is that she is lacking very critical details needed to prove her case, and beyond someone credible coming forward to support her, she is unlikely to ever have them. I think she personally seems like a gigantic drama queen faker from her testimony, but that can easily just be personal bias.

It's called being a bad person.
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jukester
10/01/18 4:55:46 PM
#45:


I thought there was supposed to be logic here.
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bloodydeath0
10/01/18 4:59:02 PM
#46:


i don't think she's lying, but i think there were a lot of unfortunate events that have happened that have effectively turned her into a political chess piece.

as far as the assault itself, that's a lot of he said/she said that should have been handled a long time ago. i don't think it's right for anyone to speculate on the exact events at this point, but the lesson to take from this is that when women are assaulted, we NEED to handle it better immediately. women shouldn't be afraid of their lives being ruined from it, which, no matter what the truth is, is happening to Ford. And has happened her entire life because she kept this secret bottled up that she feared instead of being able to confront it.
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nemu
10/01/18 5:00:12 PM
#47:


ledbowman posted...

It's called being a bad person.

Once again, better than being a bleeding heart. Beyond being nice to a victim you personally know and keeping basic human decency with victims of any crime, "listen and believe" is a crock of shit. Not believing someone who has presented no credible evidence is not a bad thing.
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ledbowman
10/01/18 5:06:12 PM
#48:


nemu posted...
ledbowman posted...

It's called being a bad person.

Once again, better than being a bleeding heart. Beyond being nice to a victim you personally know and keeping basic human decency with victims of any crime, "listen and believe" is a crock of shit. Not believing someone who has presented no credible evidence is not a bad thing.

She has presented credible evidence.
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nemu
10/01/18 5:08:10 PM
#49:


ledbowman posted...
nemu posted...
ledbowman posted...

It's called being a bad person.

Once again, better than being a bleeding heart. Beyond being nice to a victim you personally know and keeping basic human decency with victims of any crime, "listen and believe" is a crock of shit. Not believing someone who has presented no credible evidence is not a bad thing.

She has presented credible evidence.

Nope. Time, date, place, corroborator, one of the assailants admitting to it, etc. Those are credible. She has none of those.
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ledbowman
10/01/18 5:11:24 PM
#50:


bloodydeath0 posted...
i don't think she's lying, but i think there were a lot of unfortunate events that have happened that have effectively turned her into a political chess piece.

as far as the assault itself, that's a lot of he said/she said that should have been handled a long time ago. i don't think it's right for anyone to speculate on the exact events at this point, but the lesson to take from this is that when women are assaulted, we NEED to handle it better immediately. women shouldn't be afraid of their lives being ruined from it, which, no matter what the truth is, is happening to Ford. And has happened her entire life because she kept this secret bottled up that she feared instead of being able to confront it.

Just one quibble with your post: most people are not speculating about the event. They are looking at the evidence we have and deciding whether it amounts to Kavanaugh's guilt.
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