Current Events > Everything You Know About Obesity Is Wrong

(+) Yeah! (+)

Esrac posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

Esrac posted...

Maybe I'm an asshole here, but none of the anecdotes made me feel sympathy for these people. Some of them, like the one I showed in my previous post, made me feel disgust for the fat woman who eats five containers of ice cream a week. I'm assuming they're half-gallons, but even five pints of ice cream a week is insane.

A whole pint of ice cream has as many calories as half a box of pasta.

Doing some basic math, using blue bell chocolate ice cream as an example. There are 2 cups in a pint of ice cream. Each serving is 1/2 a cup. Each serving is 160 calories. Mostly sugar and saturated fat. So, that's 640 calories per pint. 64 grams of sugar.

But it's dairy! It's healthy for you! Calories don't matter for weight loss!

Tyranthraxus posted...

The article explains why pretty nicely already. Poverty level and infrastructure conditions make healthy lifestyles extremely inconvenient, especially for people who are already obese.

It's highly unlikely that this is the sole cause. Especially given the overwhelming rate of obesity in the US, in comparison to the prevalence of poverty. Implausible at the face of it, never mind examining the actual data.

I can make a healthy rodent obese, get her pregnant, and then raise the offspring in a different environment, and the probability of that offspring being obese is much higher.
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The main thing is you guys just need to accept the facts and data instead of believing what you want to be true. It's such a goddamn awful rotten trait to have in general, believing your own feelings instead of facts, but people get it so blatantly wrong here.

You want diets to work. You want fat shaming to work. Neither are effective for weight loss.
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clearaflagrantj posted...

Esrac posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

Esrac posted...

Maybe I'm an asshole here, but none of the anecdotes made me feel sympathy for these people. Some of them, like the one I showed in my previous post, made me feel disgust for the fat woman who eats five containers of ice cream a week. I'm assuming they're half-gallons, but even five pints of ice cream a week is insane.

A whole pint of ice cream has as many calories as half a box of pasta.

Doing some basic math, using blue bell chocolate ice cream as an example. There are 2 cups in a pint of ice cream. Each serving is 1/2 a cup. Each serving is 160 calories. Mostly sugar and saturated fat. So, that's 640 calories per pint. 64 grams of sugar.

But it's dairy! It's healthy for you! Calories don't matter for weight loss!

And that's assuming it's just pints. The article suggests to me that it might be half-gallons or more, since it says her family thinks there is one container of ice cream in the freezer, but it's actually 5 different containers as she eats and replaces them.
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Bok_Choi posted...

And, in a cruel twist, one effect of weight bias is that it actually makes you eat more. The stress hormone cortisolthe one evolution designed to kick in when youre being chased by a tiger or, it turns out, rejected for your looksincreases appetite, reduces the will to exercise and even improves the taste of food. Sam, echoing so many of the other people I spoke with, says that he drove straight to Jack in the Box last year after someone yelled, Eat less! at him across a parking lot.

Yeah, THAT'S gonna make me want to sympathize with motor-scooter riders more
Holy shit
It's a fucking lifestyle issue
It starts a childhood

Certain people need to raise their kids better

Haha. What an absolutely fuck wrong explanation of what cortisol does. The only part that was correct was it being a stress hormone.

>gets chased by tiger
> oh no muh cortisol spiked
>> makes it unbearable to not take a nap and eat a gallon and a half of ice cream.

What a stupid fat piece of shit whoever wrote that.

Also cant be fucked to read the last 50 ish posts, but came in to say obesity in asian cultures is seen as a huge personal failure (call it systematic fat shaming or whatever stupid vocab word you wanna come up with) and it is a huge personal failure. It boils down to you being too stupid to have any control over what you put in your mouth, in cultures that value intelligence and academics.
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EdgeMaster posted...

Bok_Choi posted...

And, in a cruel twist, one effect of weight bias is that it actually makes you eat more. The stress hormone cortisolthe one evolution designed to kick in when youre being chased by a tiger or, it turns out, rejected for your looksincreases appetite, reduces the will to exercise and even improves the taste of food. Sam, echoing so many of the other people I spoke with, says that he drove straight to Jack in the Box last year after someone yelled, Eat less! at him across a parking lot.

Yeah, THAT'S gonna make me want to sympathize with motor-scooter riders more
Holy shit
It's a fucking lifestyle issue
It starts a childhood

Certain people need to raise their kids better

Haha. What an absolutely fuck wrong explanation of what cortisol does. The only part that was correct was it being a stress hormone.

>gets chased by tiger
> oh no muh cortisol spiked
>> makes it unbearable to not take a nap and eat a gallon and a half of ice cream.

What a stupid fat piece of shit whoever wrote that.

Also cant be fucked to read the last 50 ish posts, but came in to say obesity in asian cultures is seen as a huge personal failure (call it systematic fat shaming or whatever stupid vocab word you wanna come up with) and it is a huge personal failure. It boils down to you being too stupid to have any control over what you put in your mouth, in cultures that value intelligence and academics.

*makes a post about other people being too stupid to regulate, doesn't understand when he doesn't understand things*
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Was this article written by a bitchy fat person with a bad haurcut?
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Esrac posted...

clearaflagrantj posted...

Esrac posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

Esrac posted...

Maybe I'm an asshole here, but none of the anecdotes made me feel sympathy for these people. Some of them, like the one I showed in my previous post, made me feel disgust for the fat woman who eats five containers of ice cream a week. I'm assuming they're half-gallons, but even five pints of ice cream a week is insane.

A whole pint of ice cream has as many calories as half a box of pasta.

Doing some basic math, using blue bell chocolate ice cream as an example. There are 2 cups in a pint of ice cream. Each serving is 1/2 a cup. Each serving is 160 calories. Mostly sugar and saturated fat. So, that's 640 calories per pint. 64 grams of sugar.

But it's dairy! It's healthy for you! Calories don't matter for weight loss!

And that's assuming it's just pints. The article suggests to me that it might be half-gallons or more, since it says her family thinks there is one container of ice cream in the freezer, but it's actually 5 different containers as she eats and replaces them.

The point I'm trying to illustrate here is that if she's eating 5 pints of ice cream (or potentially a little less since the family probably eats some, too) it's probably not even the least healthy thing she's eating. Talk about something like Wendy's for dinner and the entire meal is roughly worth 2 entire pints of ice cream assuming a sugary soda beverage.

Then they go "I have a biological problem."
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Okay so I'm gonna take the time to read the article and the sources, to see how well the sources support the context.

First thing I ran across is this from the article:

Nearly half of 3- to 6- year old girls say they worry about being fat.

They link to a thesis submitted by Sharon Hayes, for her Masters in Psychology at University of Central Florida

The piece of the thesis in question states the following:

Results are generally mixed with regard to body dissatisfaction in children younger than 6 years old. Approximately 28% of 5 year old girls in one sample desired a thinner body, whereas close to 60% of 5 year old girls in a different sample desired a heavier body

I'm immediately seeing an issue with the way this article is presenting the information but I'll continue reading

Actually, to go into greater detail about this particular part, the way they present the age range is disingenuous. While "3 to 6" technically includes 5 year olds, it seems like an emotional grab when you're bringing 3 year olds into the body image discussion

Also, 28% being "nearly half" is as big of a stretch as me saying I "nearly got an A" when I got a 78 on a test
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If only they put half as much effort into real gymnastics as they do mental gymnastics

Tyranthraxus posted...

Esrac posted...

clearaflagrantj posted...

Esrac posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

Esrac posted...

Maybe I'm an asshole here, but none of the anecdotes made me feel sympathy for these people. Some of them, like the one I showed in my previous post, made me feel disgust for the fat woman who eats five containers of ice cream a week. I'm assuming they're half-gallons, but even five pints of ice cream a week is insane.

A whole pint of ice cream has as many calories as half a box of pasta.

Doing some basic math, using blue bell chocolate ice cream as an example. There are 2 cups in a pint of ice cream. Each serving is 1/2 a cup. Each serving is 160 calories. Mostly sugar and saturated fat. So, that's 640 calories per pint. 64 grams of sugar.

But it's dairy! It's healthy for you! Calories don't matter for weight loss!

And that's assuming it's just pints. The article suggests to me that it might be half-gallons or more, since it says her family thinks there is one container of ice cream in the freezer, but it's actually 5 different containers as she eats and replaces them.

The point I'm trying to illustrate here is that if she's eating 5 pints of ice cream (or potentially a little less since the family probably eats some, too) it's probably not even the least healthy thing she's eating. Talk about something like Wendy's for dinner and the entire meal is roughly worth 2 entire pints of ice cream assuming a sugary soda beverage.

Then they go "I have a biological problem."

Well, yeah, obviously it's not the only thing she is eating. She also talks about eating all the left overs from parties (pasta salad, burgers, cake, etc) by herself after everyone else has gone to bed.

Look, I get having a weakness for sweets and other unhealthy foods. I have a hard time cutting out sweets entirely when I've got two kids and a wife who aren't trying to lose weight. But I didnt lose 50lbs by sitting in the dark eating an entire pint of ice cream every business day. A pint of ice cream will last me a week or more, and I get the kind that's like 350 calories for the whole pint.

As someone who has lost weight, I have less patience for fat people whining about not being able to lose weight and people being unkind to them than I used to. Granted, I have put on about 3 - 4 pounds over the past month, since my work out routine has been diminished due to a strained hamstring injury.
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COVxy posted...

Especially given the overwhelming rate of obesity in the US, in comparison to the prevalence of poverty. Implausible at the face of it, never mind examining the actual data.

'poverty' isn't a real thing, though, at least I mean the way we categorize someone as impoverished is very arbitrary
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For 60 years, doctors and researchers have known two things that could have improved, or even saved, millions of lives. The first is that diets do not work. Not just paleo or Atkins or Weight Watchers or Goop, but all diets.

LOL
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rikasa posted...

The main thing is you guys just need to accept the facts and data instead of believing what you want to be true. It's such a goddamn awful rotten trait to have in general, believing your own feelings instead of facts, but people get it so blatantly wrong here.

Ohhhhh the ironing
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Rexdragon125 posted...

If only they put half as much effort into real gymnastics as they do mental gymnastics

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"I ate too much food so someone called me fat so I'm going to eat more food and become more fat"

dontIoseyourway posted...

"I ate too much food so someone called me fat so I'm going to eat more food and become more fat"

It's always someone else's fault

Vyrulisse posted...

For decades, the medical community has ignored mountains of evidence to wage a cruel and futile war on fat people, poisoning public perception and ruining millions of lives.

Closed the tab here, not even gonna read the article.

You didn't miss much.

It starts with a history lesson spun to exalt various governments for forcing us to be healthy, then rambles on with sob story after sob story with the not-at-all-subtle subtext of "stop forcing us to be healthy!"

rikasa posted...

You want diets to work. You want fat shaming to work. Neither are effective for weight loss.

now saying diets aren't effective for weight loss is just false on the face of it

dieting is going to be a part of combating obesity, full stop. the issue is that obese folks who lose weight do not have any supports to help them maintain that weight loss, because people (like itt) reduce dieting and weight loss to things like personal effort

so people lose weight and don't keep it off and that's a problem. probably best not to lean too heavily into that kind of rhetoric about how dieting is pointless or whatever, though
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Balrog0 posted...

COVxy posted...

Especially given the overwhelming rate of obesity in the US, in comparison to the prevalence of poverty. Implausible at the face of it, never mind examining the actual data.

'poverty' isn't a real thing, though, at least I mean the way we categorize someone as impoverished is very arbitrary

True enough for obesity as well, at least regarding the arbitrary cut offs.
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COVxy posted...

True enough for obesity as well, at least regarding the arbitrary cut offs.

that is an excellent point
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clearaflagrantj posted...

dontIoseyourway posted...

"I ate too much food so someone called me fat so I'm going to eat more food and become more fat"

It's always someone else's fault

Didnt someone post an article a few weeks ago about how food companies use psychology to get more people to eat their foods and insinuate that, therefore, they are to blame for obesity?

I mean, it does seem like a trend is to diminish the concept of personal responsibility for the fat people here. They just can't help themselves, apparently.
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Man, CE hates hates hates overweight people. Even more than Muslims and trans people.
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They still live in a society that believes weight is temporary, that losing it is urgent and achievable, that being comfortable in their bodies is merely glorifying obesity. This limbo, this lie, is why its so hard for fat people to discover one another or even themselves. No one believes our It Gets Better story, says Tigress Osborn, the director of community outreach for the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance. You cant claim an identity if everyone around you is saying it doesnt or shouldnt exist.

Wow. That is powerful stuff.
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Vyrulisse posted...

For decades, the medical community has ignored mountains of evidence to wage a cruel and futile war on fat people, poisoning public perception and ruining millions of lives.

Closed the tab here, not even gonna read the article.

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rikasa posted...

They still live in a society that believes weight is temporary, that losing it is urgent and achievable, that being comfortable in their bodies is merely glorifying obesity. This limbo, this lie, is why its so hard for fat people to discover one another or even themselves. No one believes our It Gets Better story, says Tigress Osborn, the director of community outreach for the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance. You cant claim an identity if everyone around you is saying it doesnt or shouldnt exist.

Wow. That is powerful stuff.

Powerful bullshit.
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Rexdragon125 posted...

If only they put half as much effort into real gymnastics as they do mental gymnastics

lol

pebblethefleet posted...

rikasa posted...

They still live in a society that believes weight is temporary, that losing it is urgent and achievable, that being comfortable in their bodies is merely glorifying obesity. This limbo, this lie, is why its so hard for fat people to discover one another or even themselves. No one believes our It Gets Better story, says Tigress Osborn, the director of community outreach for the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance. You cant claim an identity if everyone around you is saying it doesnt or shouldnt exist.

Wow. That is powerful stuff.

Powerful bullshit.

The power of identity politics. A power to surpass Metal Gear.
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well, the system-level stuff is certainly a big part of it, but I'm more thinking about it from the angle I believe @COVxy is, which is that there are hardwired reasons people fall back into their old habits and the concept of 'will power' or whatever in these discussions are kind of meaningless

I guess one way to think about it is like how we talk about economic mobility. there are people who say shit like 'just try harder and you'll succeed in america' but most reasonable people know that's not true.... Even if it is true that you do need to put forth effort to succeed, it isn't a sufficient condition for success
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If your diet doesn't affect your weight (it does, but for arguments sake let's say it doesn't), then what does?
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ThyCorndog posted...

If your diet doesn't affect your weight (it does, but for arguments sake let's say it doesn't), then what does?

Sloth is vastly more an factor than gluttony.

Let's say fat shaming actually worked, like there was hard scientific evidence that fat shaming reduced weight by 50% or something, I think it'd still be controversial because you're hurting people. But instead it's actually been proven that fat shaming does nothing to help them. Fat shaming is just a biological urge to bully people who look different, primitive behavior that we're all complicit in on a massive social scale.
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pebblethefleet posted...

rikasa posted...

They still live in a society that believes weight is temporary, that losing it is urgent and achievable, that being comfortable in their bodies is merely glorifying obesity. This limbo, this lie, is why its so hard for fat people to discover one another or even themselves. No one believes our It Gets Better story, says Tigress Osborn, the director of community outreach for the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance. You cant claim an identity if everyone around you is saying it doesnt or shouldnt exist.

Wow. That is powerful stuff.

Powerful bullshit.

I'm not going to pretend "Being Fat" is an integral part of someone's identity in the same way being, say, gay or black is. You can lose or gain weight. You can't lose your gayness or blackness.

Unless you're Michael Jackson, I guess.
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Godnorgosh posted...

Balrog0 posted...

the issue is that obese folks who lose weight do not have any supports to help them maintain that weight loss, because people (like itt) reduce dieting and weight loss to things like personal effort

Yeah, I agree with this. The overabundance of sugar in the American diet, for example, is a legitimate problem that needs to be combated to effectively combat obesity.

How do you do something about that though, without tyrannical mandates?

Questionmarktarius posted...

ThyCorndog posted...

If your diet doesn't affect your weight (it does, but for arguments sake let's say it doesn't), then what does?

Sloth is vastly more an factor than gluttony.

it's a lot easier to just not eat a donut than it is to work one off
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scar the 1 posted...

tl;dr:

Science shows that diets rarely work and that fat shaming makes things worse.

CE: *proceeds to fat shame*

Read the first 100 posts and this pretty much sums up the topic.
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ThyCorndog posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

ThyCorndog posted...

If your diet doesn't affect your weight (it does, but for arguments sake let's say it doesn't), then what does?

Sloth is vastly more an factor than gluttony.

it's a lot easier to just not eat a donut than it is to work one off

Buried in the "woe is me!" bullshit of the article, is the simple fact that eating less slows the works down, while doing stuff speeds the works up.

sktgamer_13dude posted...

scar the 1 posted...

tl;dr:

Science shows that diets rarely work and that fat shaming makes things worse.

CE: *proceeds to fat shame*

Read the first 100 posts and this pretty much sums up the topic.

Because the article is bullshit and the idea that diets don't work is misleading at best.
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Questionmarktarius posted...

ThyCorndog posted...

If your diet doesn't affect your weight (it does, but for arguments sake let's say it doesn't), then what does?

Sloth is vastly more an factor than gluttony.

Nope

Exercise isnt as important as cico
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Bok_Choi posted...

sktgamer_13dude posted...

scar the 1 posted...

tl;dr:

Science shows that diets rarely work and that fat shaming makes things worse.

CE: *proceeds to fat shame*

Read the first 100 posts and this pretty much sums up the topic.

Because the article is bullshit and the idea that diets don't work is misleading at best.

the article states that diets don't work because of adherence problems, not because the diet itself is fundamentally non functional.

It's not really that long of an article and it has a lot of pictures. It's a huge vertical scroll but the font is large and there's a lot of whitespace.

You've probably spent more time reading a fake Scofield story than it would take to read this article.
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So diets don't work because people can't stick to them.

That's like falling off your bike and injuring your head, and then saying helmets don't work because you weren't wearing one XD

https://www.cnet.com/news/brain-surgeon-theres-no-point-wearing-cycle-helmets/
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MakoReizei posted...

this topic was meant to mock the article

wtf happened

People read the article, unlike you. This is a discussion forum, if you wanted people to mock and joke around and not put any effort into their thoughts, go to twitter.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

the article states that diets don't work because of adherence problems, not because the diet itself is fundamentally non functional.

...hasn't Oprah proven this on several occasions?

Rexdragon125 posted...

If only they put half as much effort into real gymnastics as they do mental gymnastics

Topic over, everyone can go home.
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Godnorgosh posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

Godnorgosh posted...

Balrog0 posted...

the issue is that obese folks who lose weight do not have any supports to help them maintain that weight loss, because people (like itt) reduce dieting and weight loss to things like personal effort

Yeah, I agree with this. The overabundance of sugar in the American diet, for example, is a legitimate problem that needs to be combated to effectively combat obesity.

How do you do something about that though, without tyrannical mandates?

Well, in the case of sugar, the US spends about $4 billion every year on subsidies. Ending that would go a long way toward making sugar less accessible.

Okay, I like the way you think now.