Current Events > If everything is 100% automated except medical careers,how would anyone get $$$?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Not everyone is smart enough to be engineers, doctors, lawyers, etc. A lot of people would then go into those areas then there would be enough doctors, etc. that they'd probably make $10,000 per year instead of six figures because there would be a buffet of doctors for employers to choose from who would take a huge pay cut of it meant they'd be hired and be kept on.

why except medical
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Universal basic income
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Money would become an obsolete concept
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ThyCorndog posted...

why except medical

I don't think we're close enough technology wise to develop A.I. robots that would help diagnose and treat patients and perform surgery on them

KanaHanazawa posted...

Universal basic income

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Oakland510_ posted...

ThyCorndog posted...

why except medical

I don't think we're close enough technology wise to develop A.I. robots that would help diagnose and treat patients and perform surgery on them

Robots are already better at diagnosing. Intricate surgery is still a ways behind, however.
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Oakland510_ posted...

ThyCorndog posted...

why except medical

I don't think we're close enough technology wise to develop A.I. robots that would help diagnose and treat patients and perform surgery on them

Why not get rid of the pesky organics at that point

Won't need to pay anyone if a robot apocalypse gets rid of them all
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government. people with jobs are always just gonna pay for people without. maybe they're mad about it but bein rich is a privilege.

the jobless people only have value to society because 1.) they buy stuff and 2.) they watch ads.
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DuranOfForcena posted...

Oakland510_ posted...

ThyCorndog posted...

why except medical

I don't think we're close enough technology wise to develop A.I. robots that would help diagnose and treat patients and perform surgery on them

you are misinformed on automation and the potential it has across every existing industry. we are already right now working on machine-learning based algorithms that help doctors accurately with diagnostics and pathology. future iterations of automation will have just as much impact on the medical field as any other.

I don't think anyone can just walk in a hospital, go to a machine/A.I., get diagnosed, get medicine/treatment and leave the hospital. Not in the next 100-200 years that's why, like I said in topic title, we would still need people in the medical field

I dont think creative professions like music, game design, art, etc. could be automated, so there will likely be a shift to more creative endeavors rather then labor jobs.

But even with that at some point universal basic income will be needed to keep a basic standard of living at least during the transistion where the current notion of a workforce stops being a useful concept.
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There's an issue with housing too. Can't buy homes with that basic income or rent in places they want to rent cause the richer people would be able to pay more unless the government do something about that too like create 50 high rises in each city

Tyranthraxus posted...

Robots are already better at diagnosing.

No they're not. EKG machines cannot really tell the difference between a-fib and artifact and it over reads ischemia all the time. The deep learning radiology tools can only really work on chest x-rays (the most basic of modalities within that specialty) and they don't have the combined sensitivity and specificity as a person yet.

The misleading things about articles regarding AI is that they tout stuff like "more sensitive than doctors" knowing the reader doesn't know that I can write a computer script that is 100% accurate in diagnosing cancer--by giving everyone a cancer diagnosis. I just say nothing regarding the false positive rate of my "test."

Thus far, combining sensitivity with specificity is something machines can't do better at this point. Couple in that the medical field is highly litigious and highly regulated, it'll take decades and decades of bureaucracy even after the tech has been developed before it is fully integrated into regular practice. Because any company that tries to implement it first is going to get sued to bankruptcy from how open they will be from a liability standpoint. Medicine never implements something that isn't better and safer than the current standard of care. Most other industries can implement imperfect tech and make improvements faster from data.

That is unacceptable in regards to human life and the hurdle to get past that milestone means it'll be one of the last replacements. It'll be used as an adjunct tool, but never outright actually replace, for a very long time. That being said that day will come eventually, just not nearly as much as your typical /r/futurology "enthusiast" seems to believe.
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DuranOfForcena posted...

Oakland510_ posted...

ThyCorndog posted...

why except medical

I don't think we're close enough technology wise to develop A.I. robots that would help diagnose and treat patients and perform surgery on them

you are misinformed on automation and the potential it has across every existing industry. we are already right now working on machine-learning based algorithms that help doctors accurately with diagnostics and pathology. future iterations of automation will have just as much impact on the medical field as any other.

The important distinction is that the machines will be used by doctors as tools to aid their diagnosis. It will not be a true replacement of that physician role for a very, very long time because a robot cannot carry the same liability as a person.

When these companies tout "better diagnosis" or "better outcomes" than doctors and then complications arise, the public will get distrustful incredibly fast. Especially with how much the A.I. industry hypes it up.
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BlameAnesthesia posted...

No they're not. EKG machines

First of all, an EKG machine isn't an automated robot. Secondly, even if it were your extremely narrow example is completely overshadowed by the fact that AI is not only already better in some areas but improving further and making very fast advancements in other fields of medicine where it's still lacking.

https://www.marsdd.com/magazine/computers-are-already-better-than-doctors-at-diagnosing-some-diseases/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/28/robots-better-doctors-diagnosing-cancers-major-study-finds/
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Have to sell out that butthole
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charey posted...

I dont think creative professions like music, game design, art, etc. could be automated

I think you'd be surprised tbqh
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Oakland510_ posted...

I don't think anyone can just walk in a hospital, go to a machine/A.I., get diagnosed, get medicine/treatment and leave the hospital. Not in the next 100-200 years that's why, like I said in topic title, we would still need people in the medical field

Last time I went to the doctors office, the doctor typed all of my symptoms into the computer. It printed out the most probable diagnosis, recommended treatment/medication, and a doctor's note to give to my boss. We're not as far off as you think.
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BlazinBlue88 posted...

the doctor typed all of my symptoms into the computer.

He documented the visit, not put it into WebMD and read the results. I really hope you were being sarcastic.

Tyranthraxus posted...

BlameAnesthesia posted...

No they're not. EKG machines

First of all, an EKG machine isn't an automated robot. Secondly, even if it were your extremely narrow example is completely overshadowed by the fact that AI is not only already better in some areas but improving further and making very fast advancements in other fields of medicine where it's still lacking.

https://www.marsdd.com/magazine/computers-are-already-better-than-doctors-at-diagnosing-some-diseases/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/28/robots-better-doctors-diagnosing-cancers-major-study-finds/

But EKG machines have software that utilizes similar concepts to print diagnoses on an EKG read. Except those diagnoses are ignored by most medical professionals because they aren't as accurate.

The article you posted cited a study, but this study doesn't compare the machine to the gold standard of diagnosis. It's behind a paywall, but it only cites "accuracy", not taking into account sensitivity or specificity.

It would be valid to presume the "accuracy" as sensitivity, but 81% sensitive is not better than a diagnostician taking into account the entire clinical picture.

Also my point is more surrounding the implementation of the tech. That's what virtually everyone fails to recognize. Medicine is not nearly as black and white as people think and it's more than just typing in a set of symptoms and coming up with a diagnosis. Even with sophisticated labs and imaging, diagnoses are very often ambiguous. This machine tech is only as sophisticated as modern medicine currently is. It won't have magic 100% answers to things that currently don't have those kinds of answers.

Again, not saying the tech won't come eventually. I'm not ignorant to how disruptive A.I. will eventually be to virtually every industry. But A.I. people drastically underestimate how resistant to change the healthcare machine is. Like I said, implement too soon and it dooms the perception of the tech. Most likely, it'll be a tool behind the scenes that will aid in certain aspects of a physician's role, but it will not replace it in its entirety for a very very long time. That's because what patient's see is only the tip of the iceberg in terms of what a physician actually does.
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and not everyone is in good health to be working maintenance jobs . Minimum wage jobs are good for people who need a job while waiting to be qualified for a better job. Minimum wage jobs are also good for old people and students.
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Hopefully this never happens. Automation is fine when overlooked by humans and doing mundane shit. But covering important shit? Nah. Can't rely on computers.
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Oakland510_ posted...

ThyCorndog posted...

why except medical

I don't think we're close enough technology wise to develop A.I. robots that would help diagnose and treat patients and perform surgery on them

lol being a professor in theoritical physics is way harder than surgeons, but their jobs are the ones being automated?

LimboTraveller posted...

Oakland510_ posted...

ThyCorndog posted...

why except medical

I don't think we're close enough technology wise to develop A.I. robots that would help diagnose and treat patients and perform surgery on them

lol being a professor in theoritical physics is way harder than surgeons, but their jobs are the ones being automated?

Strong words from the man who is neither.
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Duh, the ATM.
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BlameAnesthesia posted...

LimboTraveller posted...

Oakland510_ posted...

ThyCorndog posted...

why except medical

I don't think we're close enough technology wise to develop A.I. robots that would help diagnose and treat patients and perform surgery on them

lol being a professor in theoritical physics is way harder than surgeons, but their jobs are the ones being automated?

Strong words from the man who is neither.

but i am studying medicine currently, and i have a family relative who worked as professor

Knowledge_King posted...

Hopefully this never happens. Automation is fine when overlooked by humans and doing mundane shit. But covering important shit? Nah. Can't rely on computers.

Computers are more reliable than men.
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Celebrities better be worried about this too. If the average joe can't afford to go see your movie, buy tickets to your concert, go see a game etc that means you're out of a job too.
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Dude if robots seriously ended up doing EVERYTHING we would probably enter some sort of utopia where we don't have to work

In a 100% automated world, money itself may be a thing of the past.

Breasts posted...

Dude if robots seriously ended up doing EVERYTHING we would probably enter some sort of utopia where we don't have to work

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Medical careers are one of the things that should absolutely be automated.

Also, UBI is the answer to automation taking all jobs. Americans seem to be against UBI for some stupid reason...
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ThyCorndog posted...

Breasts posted...

Dude if robots seriously ended up doing EVERYTHING we would probably enter some sort of utopia where we don't have to work

It's far more likely than you think. With technology advancing exponentially and automation taking out entire categories of jobs at a time, there will come a time when we flat out won't have many jobs to fill.

And while some people will label it socialism and dismiss it outright before even thinking about it, universal basic income might become a necessity rather than just a desire. And really, what would be so bad about that? If just your necessities were covered ambitious people would still have motivation to produce and innovate and discover, people would still work to give themselves and their family a better life. And yeah, maybe some people would just fuck off their whole life and sit around not doing shit, but so what? It's not like that's a desirable life that would cause society to collapse from everyone just lazily doing nothing. Really it's this problem with people caring far too much about what other people are doing. It's like people who want k drug test people on welfare or eliminate welfare altogether because they saw a nice car outside of a project lol. The cost of welfare for each tax payer is negligible, you wouldn't even notice if you stopped paying it, the government wastes far more of your tax money on nonsense we shouldn't be paying for. Plus i have no problem with paying for 9 people to abuse the system if it means that the one single mom who really needs it can provide for her family, and in reality those numbers are backwards.

But really it's the inherent selfishness of about half of Americans that leads to that kinda thinking. Hell look at Obamacare. Despite the fact that it proved to be successful at covering those that were simply shit outta luck prior to it, it also ended up costing Americans less money overall. Yeah some people ended up paying more, which has to happen if you're covering more people who can't afford it. But really if you're gonna contribute money to our society for any reason whatsoever, isn't caring for the sick and needy and literally saving fellow American's lives literally the best thing you can imagine your dollars being used for?

Man I seem to like to rant when I get stoned lol.
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So robots won't be able to be doctors but they will be able to be plumbers?
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Tyranthraxus posted...

Computers are more reliable than men.

Not even close. Computers can and do mess up for literally no reason at all sometimes. On top of that, they also mess up for various actual reasons like disk space, concurrent jobs, conflicting jobs, RAM/Memory, CPU Usage, an update trying to run, random conflicting software, etc.

Men are far more reliable. Even the dumbest, least reliable men (and I've worked with them), can match the most reliable computers and surpass them.

nicklebro posted...

But really if you're gonna contribute money to our society for any reason whatsoever, isn't caring for the sick and needy and literally saving fellow American's lives literally the best thing you can imagine your dollars being used for?

No. It's not even in the top 10.
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Oakland510_ posted...

ThyCorndog posted...

why except medical

I don't think we're close enough technology wise to develop A.I. robots that would help diagnose and treat patients and perform surgery on them

We are alot closer than you think.

AI with the right sensors and database can diagnose, and prescribe medicine in the matter of a minutes.

Ironically, when it comes to hands-to-patients care like nurses or caretaker, human workers gonna hold their edge longer.
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BlameAnesthesia posted...

He documented the visit, he didn't put it into WebMD and then read the results. I really hope you were being sarcastic.

I'm not. I watched her put in my symptoms, we both waited on the program to analyze what she put in, and it printed out a diagnosis. She even said, "OK let's see what you have." After reading the print out she said, "Looks like you have bronchitis."

Keep in mind this was at a place that's basically the fast food of doctors offices. They cycle people in and out as quick as they can.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

Oakland510_ posted...

ThyCorndog posted...

why except medical

I don't think we're close enough technology wise to develop A.I. robots that would help diagnose and treat patients and perform surgery on them

Robots are already better at diagnosing. Intricate surgery is still a ways behind, however.

This is completely incorrect.

There's a lot more to a diagnosis than symptoms.
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@Knowledge_King posted...

No. It's not even in the top 10.

And why not? Why don't you care about other people?
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The best thing our tax dollars being used for are things that objectively help everyone, like roads/infrastructure, police and fire departments, etc.

Not sure how many of those there are but universal health care is after those. Would much rather spend money on universal health care than subsidizing soy farmers though.
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nicklebro posted...

@Knowledge_King posted...

No. It's not even in the top 10.

And why not? Why don't you care about other people?

They're not important and taxes should be used for more important things. Like infrastructure and w/e else the gov't does. Even military is more important, if America wants to remain the superpower in the world.

Plus there's a difference between caring about other people and paying for people that brought dis-ease (or literal disease) upon themselves.
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Knowledge_King posted...

nicklebro posted...

@Knowledge_King posted...

No. It's not even in the top 10.

And why not? Why don't you care about other people?

They're not important and taxes should be used for more important things. Like infrastructure and w/e else the gov't does. Even military is more important, if America wants to remain the superpower in the world.

Plus there's a difference between caring about other people and paying for people that brought dis-ease (or literal disease) upon themselves.

But the cost of saving Americans lives is pennies compared to the things you just listed. So you can pay for all of it. And Jesus Christ you're blaming sick people for getting sick now? Youre saying that important people don't get cancer? It only affects the unimportant part of the population? And who determines who is or is not important? You may not find some guy with a life threatening disease important, but his wife and 4 kids and friends find him very important. What is the point of even having a country if were not going to give a shit if our neighbor lives or dies? What good is the military if our country isn't even worth protecting?

Can you please tell me you're joking? I mean I've seen some bad stuff on CE but the pure evil you are espousing is chilling. I mean if we don't care about sick and needy people enough to even save their lives when it would be insanely easy for us to do that, how long will it be before someone like you crumches the numbers and shows everyone how much more cost effective it would be to just euthanize the terminal patients immediately? And then after that, why not euthanize those with incurable diseases that have costly treatments? And hey now we can analyze your DNA and discover that this portion of the population is fsrore susceptible to heart disease and cancer and the like, and eliminating them from the general pool would benefit the rest of the country and ensure a brighter future? And wow, we've done such an great job and accomplished so much, why there people protesting? They are the enemies of progress, we need to eliminate them to ensure the continued success of our people. And to ensure that type of thing never happens again we gotta start monitoring everyone's interactions and beliefs because it just takes one bad apple to spoil the bunch.

You can say whatever bullshit you want about how that's not what you said, but that's literally the end result of a country that does not value it's citizen's lives. People have been banding together since before we were actually people to ensure our survival. But somewhere on the way, the tribes got to big and despite being surrounded by more people than ever before, people are also more alone than we've ever been before. And that's the only excuse I can come up with to explain your abhorrent apathy towards your fellow countrymen which is the epitome of selfishness and evil.
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nicklebro posted...

But the cost of saving Americans lives is pennies compared to the things you just listed. So you can pay for all of it. And Jesus Christ you're blaming sick people for getting sick now? Youre saying that important people don't get cancer? It only affects the unimportant part of the population? And who determines who is or is not important? You may not find some guy with a life threatening disease important, but his wife and 4 kids and friends find him very important. What is the point of even having a country if were not going to give a shit if our neighbor lives or dies? What good is the military if our country isn't even worth protecting?

Can you please tell me you're joking? I mean I've seen some bad stuff on CE but the pure evil you are espousing is chilling. I mean if we don't care about sick and needy people enough to even save their lives when it would be insanely easy for us to do that, how long will it be before someone like you crumches the numbers and shows everyone how much more cost effective it would be to just euthanize the terminal patients immediately? And then after that, why not euthanize those with incurable diseases that have costly treatments? And hey now we can analyze your DNA and discover that this portion of the population is fsrore susceptible to heart disease and cancer and the like, and eliminating them from the general pool would benefit the rest of the country and ensure a brighter future? And wow, we've done such an great job and accomplished so much, why there people protesting? They are the enemies of progress, we need to eliminate them to ensure the continued success of our people. And to ensure that type of thing never happens again we gotta start monitoring everyone's interactions and beliefs because it just takes one bad apple to spoil the bunch.

You can say whatever bullshit you want about how that's not what you said, but that's literally the end result of a country that does not value it's citizen's lives. People have been banding together since before we were actually people to ensure our survival. But somewhere on the way, the tribes got to big and despite being surrounded by more people than ever before, people are also more alone than we've ever been before. And that's the only excuse I can come up with to explain your abhorrent apathy towards your fellow countrymen which is the epitome of selfishness and evil.

'Not important' has nothing to do with status. It's simply not important to pay for healthcare of others. And no, healthcare is not pennies compared to infrastructure and military. It's sill billions for something not important. Billions that could be spent elsewhere.

And yeah if you're healthy/eat healthy/workout/sleep, you won't get sick. So if you do, you brought it on yourself.

Not sure what kind of tangent you're going off on but I said nothing about euthanizing anyone. Just that we shouldn't pay for them. With that logic, if it's costly, then they're paying it so...

Nothing evil about it. Health is a simple thing. Do healthy things, you remain healthy.

Capitalism is also simple. Things cost money. If you want things, spend the money. Want healthcare? pay for it yourself.
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Yeah, UBI has been shown as basically necessary at some point by at least the mid 2100s.
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stocks and bonds

Knowledge_King posted...

And yeah if you're healthy/eat healthy/workout/sleep, you won't get sick.

LMAO.

yeah obviously no one what's right and exercises gets cancer. Lol the only way to get sick is if you do something wrong.

And while I'm not really taking you seriously anymore cuz I proved your ideology is an untenable one, universal health insurance is indeed pennies compared to our defense budget. That's just a fact.

But the new dictstor has decided you're not important, so you're to be executed tomorrow. Hope you didn't have plans.
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nicklebro posted...

yeah obviously no one what's right and exercises gets cancer. Lol the only way to get sick is if you do something wrong.

No they don't. If someone's on a meat-free, bread-free, dairy-free diet of fruits and vegetables, sleeps enough, and exercises enough, they won't get cancer. They certainly won't get sick.

And yeah, you need a compromised immune system to get sick. That's literal facts.
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Knowledge_King posted...

Capitalism is also simple. Things cost money. If you want things, spend the money. Want healthcare? pay for it yourself.

okay then why even have taxes at all?

why should even one cent of my money be spent on something I don't want it to be spent on?
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This isn't going to happen. Don't worry.
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Knowledge_King posted...

No they don't. If someone's on a meat-free, bread-free, dairy-free diet of fruits and vegetables, sleeps enough, and exercises enough, they won't get cancer. They certainly won't get sick.

A guy named "Knowledge_King" made this post.
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