Current Events > EU rules that Hungary isnt EU enough. May strip them of right to vote.

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45498514

Poland is also on the chopping block for an upcoming vote. Stripping them of the right to vote is the heaviest punishment they could bring, but it offers an interesting look into how the EU plans to operate against countries that aren't happy with how the EU is operating.

The European Parliament has voted to pursue unprecedented disciplinary action against Hungary over alleged breaches of the EU's core values.

Prime Minister Viktor Orban's government has been accused of attacks on the media, minorities, and the rule of law - charges which he denies.

More than two-thirds of MEPs backed the censure motion - the first such vote against a member state under EU rules.

If also approved by national leaders, Hungary could face punitive measures.

They include stripping the country of voting rights at European Union level.

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I mean theyre definitely shunning European norms and veering hard to the right under Orban
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fuck the EU.

brexit kinda ruined my british bucks but id say they still got off better than being ruled over by the fascists in germany/brussels.

Good. The EU shouldn't condone autocracy.
Of course, it will go right back to screwing Greece/Spain/Italy etc.

pebblethefleet posted...

I mean theyre definitely shunning European norms and veering hard to the right under Orban

Yea, but what's the message here? That EU nations don't even have the autonomy to go conservative at all without risking losing the ability to have any say at all in EU matters while still being bound to their laws and fees?
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Dunno why punishing countries for veering hard towards authoritarianism is a bad thing
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s0nicfan posted...

Yea, but what's the message here? That EU nations don't even have the autonomy to go conservative at all without risking losing the ability to have any say at all in EU matters while still being bound to their laws and fees?

it's not conservatism they're punishing
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Doom_Art posted...

Dunno why punishing countries for veering hard towards authoritarianism is a bad thing

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Oh boy internal fighting in Europe?

That always ends well
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prince_leo posted...

it's not conservatism they're punishing

To be fair conservatism and authoritarianism are looking awfully similar these days
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Doom_Art posted...

Dunno why punishing countries for veering hard towards authoritarianism is a bad thing

Punishing authoritarianism with more authoritarianism isn't going to change things
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Doom_Art posted...

Dunno why punishing countries for veering hard towards authoritarianism is a bad thing

Because their far-right governments will use it as an excuse to leave the EU. They could care fuck all about how it affects their citizens because they can just continue to blame the brown man for their problems
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s0nicfan posted...

pebblethefleet posted...

I mean theyre definitely shunning European norms and veering hard to the right under Orban

Yea, but what's the message here? That EU nations don't even have the autonomy to go conservative at all without risking losing the ability to have any say at all in EU matters while still being bound to their laws and fees?

I highly doubt you know anything about the situation in Hungary and are just using this to push your whole "CONSERVATIVES ARE BEING SILENCED!" bullshit talking points
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"but...but...Trump!"
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prince_leo posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Yea, but what's the message here? That EU nations don't even have the autonomy to go conservative at all without risking losing the ability to have any say at all in EU matters while still being bound to their laws and fees?

it's not conservatism they're punishing

Exactly. The current form of the EU has many issues, but Viktor Orban isnt a regular Conservative. He is doing his best to become a dictator-esque figure who is taking control of his nations media, courts and similar. He is also using increasingly anti-Jewish rethoric.
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BalanceLost posted...

prince_leo posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Yea, but what's the message here? That EU nations don't even have the autonomy to go conservative at all without risking losing the ability to have any say at all in EU matters while still being bound to their laws and fees?

it's not conservatism they're punishing

Exactly. The current form of the EU has many issues, but Viktor Orban isnt a regular Conservative. He is doing his best to become a dictator-esque figure who is taking control of his nations media, courts and similar. He is also using increasingly anti-Jewish rethoric.

Explains why loony alt-righters are fellating themselves to Orban.
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Alpha218 posted...

Doom_Art posted...

Dunno why punishing countries for veering hard towards authoritarianism is a bad thing

Because their far-right governments will use it as an excuse to leave the EU. They could care fuck all about how it affects their citizens because they can just continue to blame the brown man for their problems

It's a Catch-22 in that regard. Do nothing and appear to condone it or do something and get the racists mad at the expense of their own people who you'd like to hope you have the best interest in mind for.

You're gonna make someone mad, and I prefer the racists.
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Thompson posted...

Explains why loony alt-righters are fellating themselves to Orba

They also love what's going on in Turkey and Poland rn
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The Great Muta 22 posted...

s0nicfan posted...

pebblethefleet posted...

I mean theyre definitely shunning European norms and veering hard to the right under Orban

Yea, but what's the message here? That EU nations don't even have the autonomy to go conservative at all without risking losing the ability to have any say at all in EU matters while still being bound to their laws and fees?

I highly doubt you know anything about the situation in Hungary and are just using this to push your whole "CONSERVATIVES ARE BEING SILENCED!" bullshit talking points

Bloodychess posted...

Doom_Art posted...

Dunno why punishing countries for veering hard towards authoritarianism is a bad thing

Punishing authoritarianism with more authoritarianism isn't going to change things

Pretty sure what the EU is doing literally cant be classified as authoritarian for a few reasons
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CyricZ posted...

Alpha218 posted...

Doom_Art posted...

Dunno why punishing countries for veering hard towards authoritarianism is a bad thing

Because their far-right governments will use it as an excuse to leave the EU. They could care fuck all about how it affects their citizens because they can just continue to blame the brown man for their problems

It's a Catch-22 in that regard. Do nothing and appear to condone it or do something and get the racists mad at the expense of their own people who you'd like to hope you have the best interest in mind for.

You're gonna make someone mad, and I prefer the racists.

I am not saying the EU is wrong

Its that theyre stuck in a lose-lose situation here

I mean already you have people disingenuously suggesting theyre censoring conservatives. Just imagine how Hungarys and Polands authoritarian governments are going to use this news for their own goals. As others have said theyve been consolidating and taking control of media in their countries. They can spread any message they want to their people
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EU is basically the Fourth Reich

Germany controls the EU and they are kinda dictatorish

and before anyone freaks out, they don't have to be nazis or compared to nazis. only the third reich was actually nazis. most people don't know why the third reich is called the third reich. the first 2 reichs were before nazis were even invented. first reich was the Holy Roman Empire. and 2nd reich was germany during WW1

Alphamon posted...

The Great Muta 22 posted...

s0nicfan posted...

pebblethefleet posted...

I mean theyre definitely shunning European norms and veering hard to the right under Orban

Yea, but what's the message here? That EU nations don't even have the autonomy to go conservative at all without risking losing the ability to have any say at all in EU matters while still being bound to their laws and fees?

I highly doubt you know anything about the situation in Hungary and are just using this to push your whole "CONSERVATIVES ARE BEING SILENCED!" bullshit talking points

I'm not here to say Hungary's government is great, and I'm not here to say that conservatives are being silenced. I'm here to highlight how awful the EU is. This topic is more about the fact that the EU has the power to strip member nations of their right to vote than is it a tacit or otherwise endorsement of Orban's government.
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Zikten posted...

EU is basically the Fourth Reich

Germany controls the EU and they are kinda dictatorish

and before anyone freaks out, they don't have to be nazis or compared to nazis. only the third reich was actually nazis. most people don't know why the third reich is called the third reich. the first 2 reichs were before nazis were even invented. first reich was the Holy Roman Empire. and 2nd reich was germany during WW1

not a good take imo
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Yes, thats the power that a legislative body generally has over its members.

Notice they never even used this against Britain who would constantly go out of their way to go against the grain and obstruct policy they didnt like

It entirely has to do with the fact that they are trying to turn their country into a dictatorship that persecutes those who arent in the ruling party/minorities
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If you're gonna act like a trump-esque c***, these sorts of things might happen. Maybe don't do that.
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s0nicfan posted...

Alphamon posted...

The Great Muta 22 posted...

s0nicfan posted...

pebblethefleet posted...

I mean theyre definitely shunning European norms and veering hard to the right under Orban

Yea, but what's the message here? That EU nations don't even have the autonomy to go conservative at all without risking losing the ability to have any say at all in EU matters while still being bound to their laws and fees?

I highly doubt you know anything about the situation in Hungary and are just using this to push your whole "CONSERVATIVES ARE BEING SILENCED!" bullshit talking points

I'm not here to say Hungary's government is great, and I'm not here to say that conservatives are being silenced. I'm here to highlight how awful the EU is. This topic is more about the fact that the EU has the power to strip member nations of their right to vote than is it a tacit or otherwise endorsement of Orban's government.

I don't believe you at all
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Zikten posted...

EU is basically the Fourth Reich

Germany controls the EU and they are kinda dictatorish

and before anyone freaks out, they don't have to be nazis or compared to nazis. only the third reich was actually nazis. most people don't know why the third reich is called the third reich. the first 2 reichs were before nazis were even invented. first reich was the Holy Roman Empire. and 2nd reich was germany during WW1

truthfully the nazi party was facist regime going for power under socialism(The National Socialist German Workers' Party (German: Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterparte) so goes to show the parties like to hide under a different party, things may change including names and locations but history has a way of repeating itself and signs are showing to history is going to repeat. Also only reason nazi party targeted Hebrew was they were the scapegoat, I feel they would target any group honestly if the could work it as a scapegoat

The Great Muta 22 posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Alphamon posted...

The Great Muta 22 posted...

s0nicfan posted...

pebblethefleet posted...

I mean theyre definitely shunning European norms and veering hard to the right under Orban

Yea, but what's the message here? That EU nations don't even have the autonomy to go conservative at all without risking losing the ability to have any say at all in EU matters while still being bound to their laws and fees?

I highly doubt you know anything about the situation in Hungary and are just using this to push your whole "CONSERVATIVES ARE BEING SILENCED!" bullshit talking points

I'm not here to say Hungary's government is great, and I'm not here to say that conservatives are being silenced. I'm here to highlight how awful the EU is. This topic is more about the fact that the EU has the power to strip member nations of their right to vote than is it a tacit or otherwise endorsement of Orban's government.

I don't believe you at all

I don't really care if you do. I stated my purpose, you can print it out, roll it into a tube, and shove it up your ass if you choose to not believe me.
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This + the fact that they passed the extinction-level Internet regulations today = fuck the EU

Zikten posted...

and before anyone freaks out, they don't have to be nazis or compared to nazis. only the third reich was actually nazis. most people don't know why the third reich is called the third reich. the first 2 reichs were before nazis were even invented. first reich was the Holy Roman Empire. and 2nd reich was germany during WW1

Psst, the "Second Reich" was more than Germany during WW1, it was the whole German Empire and specifically under the leadership of Bismarck.

And no, the EU isn't a Reich
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Ah, one of these weird cases where I hate all parties involved.
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The EU would be better off kicking them out.

This is like Hungary is playing with the EU in the EU's house then when Hungary misbehaves, and instead of the EU asking Hungary to leave, the EU ties Hungary up in the basement.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

The EU would be better off kicking them out.

This is like Hungary is playing with the EU in the EU's house then when Hungary misbehaves, and instead of the EU asking Hungary to leave, the EU ties Hungary up in the basement.

I'd say it's closer to Hungary playing in the street outside their own house and the homeowner's association locks them in their own basement and charges them rent when they misbehave.
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The slow collapse of the EU continues
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Beyond his immigration stance, orban bares very little resemblance of conservatism. Also if you join an organisation under the agreement to follow the rules of that organisation, why should that organisation still allow you all its benefits when you break said rules? Stripping rights from its own citizens no less. It's telling that the people who have a problem with this are the same people that call the Un toothless. Can't have it both ways

The EU is trying to be more and more authoritarian... one government is a lot harder to corrupt than many, so IMO the EU should be dissolved.
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ITT - libs extol the virtues of authoritarianism being used to punish authoritarianism, solely because the authoritarianism being punished is authoritarianism they don't agree with.
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silentwing26x posted...

This + the fact that they passed the extinction-level Internet regulations today = fuck the EU

It hasn't quite passed yet. It still needs to be ratified by individual governments, at least three of which are skeptical of its fuctionality, and it needs to go through revision with the European Commission and the Council of the EU and be voted on again by the European Parliament.
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I dont think deciding who does and doesnt vote in a parliament that all members are there voluntarily qualifies as authoritarian somehow.

A country is facing the consequences of breaking the rules they promised to follow when they entered the union. I can't really see the authoritarianism there.
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That's a way to put it

Shoulda been hungrier
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scar the 1 posted...

A country is facing the consequences of breaking the rules they promised to follow when they entered the union. I can't really see the authoritarianism there.

Except the rules were made post-facto.
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Rimmer_Dall posted...

scar the 1 posted...

A country is facing the consequences of breaking the rules they promised to follow when they entered the union. I can't really see the authoritarianism there.

Except the rules were made post-facto.

From what I can find after some cursory Googling, Article 7 came into power after the Amsterdam treaty of 1999, and Hungary joined the EU in 2003.
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darkjedilink posted...

ITT - libs extol the virtues of authoritarianism being used to punish authoritarianism, solely because the authoritarianism being punished is authoritarianism they don't agree with.

Is this a gimmick?
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Good for the EU. If Hungary (and Poland) doesn't want to follow the rules, they should leave.

Zikten posted...

EU is basically the Fourth Reich

Germany controls the EU and they are kinda dictatorish

and before anyone freaks out, they don't have to be nazis or compared to nazis. only the third reich was actually nazis. most people don't know why the third reich is called the third reich. the first 2 reichs were before nazis were even invented. first reich was the Holy Roman Empire. and 2nd reich was germany during WW1

You don't have a clue
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scar the 1 posted...

Rimmer_Dall posted...

scar the 1 posted...

A country is facing the consequences of breaking the rules they promised to follow when they entered the union. I can't really see the authoritarianism there.

Except the rules were made post-facto.

From what I can find after some cursory Googling, Article 7 came into power after the Amsterdam treaty of 1999, and Hungary joined the EU in 2003.

Yes

And subsequent articles are ratified by eu nations anyway. It seems fairly straightforward that nations that don't follow the rules shouldn't vote on them.

It's telling that the users that have a problem with this are the types that don't want Puerto Rico to become a state.