Board 8 > After playing through most of Mario Odyssey, I'm a bit disappointed

(+) Yeah! (+)

This game really feels like it establishes a formula and sticks to it with very little deviation. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but the formula gets stale fairly quickly.

A bunch of the moons are basically just busywork/filler, which I knew to expect going in. But I sort of figured that I'd be done with them by the time I reached the post-game.

Instead, they add more of the moons in plain sight, moons where you have to spin your cap on something sparkly, and moons where you just pound the ground in the right place.

Even the moons that seem somewhat novel at first (birds, rabbits, koopa races) get repeated in every world. It feels less like I'm playing the game and exploring and more like I'm checking off boxes.

A lot of the worlds also felt pretty uninspired in terms of theme. I liked Bowser's Castle and Metro Kingdom, but none of the others really felt interesting to me aside from maybe the food themed kingdom.

Also, whose idea was it to make you talk to Toadette for every single "achievement" moon? And what was even the point of most of those since they awarded you moons for doing things that you already had to do to get moons?
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This is how I felt about Mario Galaxy so I hope Odyssey isnt similar since I liked Mario 64 and Sunshine
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A friend of mine had basically the same feelings about the game.
He let me know about it a lot lol.
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VintageGin posted...

Also, whose idea was it to make you talk to Toadette for every single "achievement" moon? And what was even the point of most of those since they awarded you moons for doing things that you already had to do to get moons?

That was the single worst design decision I've seen in any game in a LONG time

by the time you get to her you're likely to have at least 50+ done but each moon requires going through the exact same dialogues and animations to the point where after getting credit for 2 I just said "fuck it"
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I though the secret achievement system was brilliant. More games should do that where they don't tell you what they are until the post-game
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Johnbobb posted...

VintageGin posted...

Also, whose idea was it to make you talk to Toadette for every single "achievement" moon? And what was even the point of most of those since they awarded you moons for doing things that you already had to do to get moons?

That was the single worst design decision I've seen in any game in a LONG time

by the time you get to her you're likely to have at least 50+ done but each moon requires going through the exact same dialogues and animations to the point where after getting credit for 2 I just said "fuck it"

I feel like there are also several questionable design decisions in the game, but that was the only one that struck me as completely dumb and without purpose.
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Been over this a billion times on this board so I'll just reduce it down:

Galaxy 1/2: Superior level design, masterfully crafted challenges

Odyssey: Superior mechanics, non-stop rewards for just having fun doing whatever you want

I usually prefer the former approach but Odyssey did the latter so well that it actually changed some of my attitudes towards game design.
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I felt the exact opposite way. I disliked Sunshine, never played Galaxy 2, and only played the first Galaxy enough to beat it with the bare minimum, yet thought Odyssey was fantastic.

"Checking off boxes" is a gaming itch that I love to fill, though, so where you found a lot of that stuff repetitive, I found it right up my alley.

I could definitely see the post-game moons being more of the same and not all that interesting, but with stuff like the Dark Side challenges and the Darker Side course, I felt there was some challenging post-game stuff that wasn't about repetitiveness.
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VintageGin posted...

A bunch of the moons are basically just busywork/filler, which I knew to expect going in. But I sort of figured that I'd be done with them by the time I reached the post-game.

Instead, they add more of the moons in plain sight, moons where you have to spin your cap on something sparkly, and moons where you just pound the ground in the right place.

Even the moons that seem somewhat novel at first (birds, rabbits, koopa races) get repeated in every world. It feels less like I'm playing the game and exploring and more like I'm checking off boxes.

The idea is that the game is fun to just play and here are a bunch of sandboxes that reward you for just wanting to have fun running around and seeing what they have to offer

If you dont find the mechanics fun in and of themselves then I can understand your opinion
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I feel like it's a good game, and I really enjoyed it, but something about it is really itching at me. I dunno. I guess I was hoping for more callbacks and exploration of what the Mario planet would be like. Was also hoping for a stronger focus on characters, since there was so much focus on Pauline that didn't really go anywhere.

It's a good but not great game. The moons are barely rewarding compared to past games because they're so common - they feel more like the notes from Banjo-Kazooie than the Jiggies for the most part. The ones that felt more like Jiggies were amazing. The idea was to constantly reward the player - but it's so constant that it stops being rewarding quickly.

The mechanics are amazing and some of the world design is great (Metro Kingdom, Seaside Kingdom, Bowser's Castle), but... it just doesn't have the fulfillment a platformer should.
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odyssey is a fundamental shift in design for rewarding the player

galaxy had specific goals

odyssey feels like "you fucking spelled your name right HERE YOU GO"

but it's so fun
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VintageGin posted...

It feels less like I'm playing the game and exploring and more like I'm checking off boxes.

This was always a weird complaint to me, since I played the game naturally, never really going for specific moons, and I never felt like I was doing any kind of busywork. I think the one time I actually stuck with something I wasn't enjoying was the jump rope moon, and that was more out of principle.

I guess completionists would probably get bored, but I got around 600 and had fun most of the way.
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BlueCrystalTear posted...

It's a good but not great game. The moons are barely rewarding compared to past games because they're so common - they feel more like the notes from Banjo-Kazooie than the Jiggies for the most part. The ones that felt more like Jiggies were amazing. The idea was to constantly reward the player - but it's so constant that it stops being rewarding quickly.

The mechanics are amazing and some of the world design is great (Metro Kingdom, Seaside Kingdom, Bowser's Castle), but... it just doesn't have the fulfillment a platformer should.

This is more or less the way I felt about the game, too. It's very much quantity-over-quality with scattered moments of true brilliance.
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tazzyboyishere posted...

I guess completionists would probably get bored, but I got around 600 and had fun most of the way.

Yeah exactly. I got around the same amount and it was good for me. If Im ever bored Ill go back and get like 5 or 6 when I want to diddle around with it
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I enjoyed the approach, since it basically rewarded you for exploring and having fun. It encouraged just messing around and seeing what the worlds had to offer instead of barring off certain sections for an objective. I like the old approach, too, but this was a nice departure.
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the best moons were the cryptic picture based ones where you had to figure out where they were from other worlds
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I simultaneously understand this complaint and fully enjoyed this design choice. It just worked for me, and even though I never play my Switch portably, it's also a perfect design for the system and for kids/adults to both enjoy it equally. Kinda brilliant tbh,

Odyssey might be my favorite Mario game of all time. Or it might be in an eternal three way tie with Galaxy 2 and SMB 3. I'm not really sure!
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tazzyboyishere posted...

VintageGin posted...

It feels less like I'm playing the game and exploring and more like I'm checking off boxes.

I guess completionists would probably get bored, but I got around 600 and had fun most of the way.

Yeah, maybe that's my problem. I had decided from the outset that I would try to go for 100%. I'm at something like....750?
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Jakyl25 posted...

VintageGin posted...

A bunch of the moons are basically just busywork/filler, which I knew to expect going in. But I sort of figured that I'd be done with them by the time I reached the post-game.

Instead, they add more of the moons in plain sight, moons where you have to spin your cap on something sparkly, and moons where you just pound the ground in the right place.

Even the moons that seem somewhat novel at first (birds, rabbits, koopa races) get repeated in every world. It feels less like I'm playing the game and exploring and more like I'm checking off boxes.

The idea is that the game is fun to just play and here are a bunch of sandboxes that reward you for just wanting to have fun running around and seeing what they have to offer

If you dont find the mechanics fun in and of themselves then I can understand your opinion

This

Much like how I view the abundance of Korok Seeds in BotW - it's what allows you to just do random shit and then go oh hell yeah here's a moons/seed.

My own prime example of this: https://twitter.com/B8Gmun/status/924348467228504064

Reason Odyssey is my favourite is just that the mechanics are so fucking good and I'm just playing around the place.
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CelesMyUserName posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

VintageGin posted...

A bunch of the moons are basically just busywork/filler, which I knew to expect going in. But I sort of figured that I'd be done with them by the time I reached the post-game.

Instead, they add more of the moons in plain sight, moons where you have to spin your cap on something sparkly, and moons where you just pound the ground in the right place.

Even the moons that seem somewhat novel at first (birds, rabbits, koopa races) get repeated in every world. It feels less like I'm playing the game and exploring and more like I'm checking off boxes.

The idea is that the game is fun to just play and here are a bunch of sandboxes that reward you for just wanting to have fun running around and seeing what they have to offer

If you dont find the mechanics fun in and of themselves then I can understand your opinion

This

Much like how I view the abundance of Korok Seeds in BotW - it's what allows you to just do random shit and then go oh hell yeah here's a moons/seed.

The difference is that BotW's main goal is not to collect Korok seeds. And that's a huge difference. They also let you upgrade your inventory while moons don't really do anything.
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Hey now, you can get really expensive costumes

Do you get something for getting all of the non-purchasable moons? I heard there's something for 999 moons but wasn't sure if getting all of the non-purchasable moons also unlocked something.
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VintageGin posted...

Do you get something for getting all of the non-purchasable moons? I heard there's something for 999 moons but wasn't sure if getting all of the non-purchasable moons also unlocked something.

You do. Have you gone back to the Wedding Hall on the moon yet and looked around? When you first enter, you'll see a painting on the left and another empty frame on the right...

When you get all 888 non-purchasable moons, the painting gets filled in and you get a harder version of the final Bowser fight.
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Yeah there are basically 4 different levels of beating the game

Get to the Moon and beat Bowser (gets the main ending, credits, and unlocks Mushroom Kingdom)

Collect 500 moons and beat Darker Side (wraps up all the story beats)

Collect the 880 unique moons and beat the harder Bowser fight
(Gets the gold Odyssey sail and the thank you postcard)

Buy 119 more moons to get 999 and max out the count
(Gets the top hat on the castle which you can scale to trigger fireworks and victory fanfare)
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^ Which is pretty great because it comes back to the idea of playing however you want to.

Want to be a completionist and get everything? You can! Or do you want to just beat the main story? You can do a run of this game in a billion different ways because the requirements to just advance to the next level are super low compared to the actual number of moons in a given level. So if you're just running a fresh file, you can zip around a level doing whatever you think is fun and then blast off to the next level when you've had your fill.

At the end of the day Odyssey is about having fun however you want to, while Galaxy is about having fun overcoming a set of designed challenges. Very different games, but I love 'em both.~
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I fully enjoyed it, though I see where people are coming from.

My only real complaint with the game was that I felt it penalized exploring right away. Loads of moons were not accessible before clearing the main objectives. It's fine when there is reason to it - like the ice had to melt first or whatever - even the postgame ones are alright because you got exact locations then and was already done anyway. But all the moons that were suddenly just randomly there when you beat the boss and could've easily been from the start, that was annoying.

Oh, the Toadette thing is also a valid complaint, but not gamebreaking thing and I could live with it.

Otherwise, fully enjoyable game.
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I dont think I had any gripes with Odyssey outside of really not caring for the more difficult jump rope moon.

I thoroughly enjoyed the game start to finish, I think the beach side level is my favorite.

That said I also think SMG2 is still in my Top 5 favorite games, while Odyssey is maybe Top 10, or just outside it.
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Jakyl25 posted...

The idea is that the game is fun to just play and here are a bunch of sandboxes that reward you for just wanting to have fun running around and seeing what they have to offer

If you dont find the mechanics fun in and of themselves then I can understand your opinion

i find the mechanics fun but don't find that approach to game design rewarding
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I love the moon system. It gave them the chance to have so many little challenges along the way and get really creative with those. If these were stars or shines or whatever, they wouldn't be able to do that. To me it's less about the individual rewards and more about the reward of completing a world. Also loved using the parrot for clues and how the moon's names can be a hint.
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I was definitely rather disappointed with the game. I don't think it's bad (others have already detailed why) but it's not what I want from Mario at all. I want tight stage design and platforming challenges to overcome, the game instead is all about treasure hunting. And the various ways you collect treasure are novel (at least as far as I played, I only got 240 moons or so), few of them are actually that much fun to me.

I didn't like 64 much either and this game kinda feels like an evolution of it emphasising the parts of 64 I didn't care for (whereas Galaxy is an evolution which very much emphasises what I wanted 64 to be).
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