Current Events > Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon promotes killing your own units...

(+) Yeah! (+)

Decided to borrow my friends copy of the game when I found my DS phat in my attic and still in working condition. I beat chapter 6, my friend asked me if I unlocked the gaiden mission for it. Then I learned that you have to have 15 units or less in order to unlock it and in order to have less than 15 units you have to purposely kill off your own men. Yeah I'm aware that the game has a lot of useless units thrown at you that are easily disposable, but this game design goes directly against Fire Emblems challenge of trying to beat the level without any of your guys dying.

I mean besides that, I can see why this game sold like shit. It looks like crap and the reclass system is useless on all of the characters.
---

shadow dragon and new mystery of the emblem are bad games

they should have remade 4 and 5 instead, and not use that ugly ass style

That's actually the game pitying you, not rewarding you.
---

SD was so repugnant that it almost killed the series.

We didn't even get the FE3 remake (Which sucks because it's lightyears ahead of SD) and Awakening was supposed to be the last in the series (Hence the DLC having stuff from every game up till that point)

Worst part is SD still has defenders "because Marth".
---

Reis posted...

shadow dragon and new mystery of the emblem are bad games

they should have remade 4 and 5 instead, and not use that ugly ass style

I actually don't mind the art style all that much since it does remind me of the old art they used for old RPG's. But yeah my friend told me that they were planning on remaking a bunch of old FE but since this game was so bad it basically almost killed off the series all together if it were not for Awakening.
---

electricbugs2 posted...

SD was so repugnant that it almost killed the series.

We didn't even get the FE3 remake (Which sucks because it's lightyears ahead of SD) and Awakening was supposed to be the last in the series (Hence the DLC having stuff from every game up till that point)

Worst part is SD still has defenders "because Marth".

Wow I missed this post, but yeah my friend said the exact same thing.
---

There are some things I really like about that game, but overall it's pretty bad.

The class swap is good on a lot of characters actually. There are two prepromoted guys that are rangers or whatever (horse riding bow users) that are apparently the best units in the game by a mile, but only if you change them into something else
---

Brats can't appreciate masterpieces like old school FE
---

Prestoff posted...

Reis posted...

shadow dragon and new mystery of the emblem are bad games

they should have remade 4 and 5 instead, and not use that ugly ass style

I actually don't mind the art style all that much since it does remind me of the old art they used for old RPG's. But yeah my friend told me that they were planning on remaking a bunch of old FE but since this game was so bad it basically almost killed off the series all together if it were not for Awakening.

wasn't RD (or PoR) the lowest selling game though?
---

DarkChozoGhost posted...

The class swap is good on a lot of characters actually.

Which character would those be?

DarkChozoGhost posted...

There are two prepromoted guys that are rangers or whatever (horse riding bow users) that are apparently the best units in the game by a mile, but only if you change them into something else

You gotta be lying, prepromoted units are the most useless recruits you can have.
---

mehmeh1 posted...

wasn't RD (or PoR) the lowest selling game though?

Defs not PoR that game was mega popular.

RD on the other hand was the beginnings of Nintendo's "artificial scarcity" policy. They boned themselves.
---

Reis posted...

new mystery of the emblem
bad

u wot

Prestoff posted...

You gotta be lying, prepromoted units are the most useless recruits you can have.

Lmao make Wolf and Sedgar Berserkers and say that again after witnessing their amazing level ups. 160% strength growth, homie.

Prestoff posted...

DarkChozoGhost posted...

The class swap is good on a lot of characters actually.

Which character would those be?

DarkChozoGhost posted...

There are two prepromoted guys that are rangers or whatever (horse riding bow users) that are apparently the best units in the game by a mile, but only if you change them into something else

You gotta be lying, prepromoted units are the most useless recruits you can have.

Ah. I can see how experienced with the series you are. You've played enough to know about some of the pitfalls of the game, but you're still an amateur. Prepromoted units usually end up worse at maximum level, they can hog experience, leave your other units too weak, ect. But you've yet to learn how to look at them on an individual level, and you're too dismissive of them. Some prepromotes are junk, others are great for support, and some are genuinely good.
---

Prestoff posted...

DarkChozoGhost posted...

The class swap is good on a lot of characters actually.

Which character would those be?

DarkChozoGhost posted...

There are two prepromoted guys that are rangers or whatever (horse riding bow users) that are apparently the best units in the game by a mile, but only if you change them into something else

You gotta be lying, prepromoted units are the most useless recruits you can have.

wolf and sedgar have the best growths in the game
---

Freddie_Mercury posted...

Prestoff posted...

DarkChozoGhost posted...

The class swap is good on a lot of characters actually.

Which character would those be?

DarkChozoGhost posted...

There are two prepromoted guys that are rangers or whatever (horse riding bow users) that are apparently the best units in the game by a mile, but only if you change them into something else

You gotta be lying, prepromoted units are the most useless recruits you can have.

wolf and sedgar have the best growths in the game

Yeah I just tested sedgar, literally got +2 on almost all his stats except luck and resistance. I screwed myself over not recruiting them lol.
---

DarkChozoGhost posted...

Prestoff posted...

DarkChozoGhost posted...

The class swap is good on a lot of characters actually.

Which character would those be?

DarkChozoGhost posted...

There are two prepromoted guys that are rangers or whatever (horse riding bow users) that are apparently the best units in the game by a mile, but only if you change them into something else

You gotta be lying, prepromoted units are the most useless recruits you can have.

Ah. I can see how experienced with the series you are. You've played enough to know about some of the pitfalls of the game, but you're still an amateur. Prepromoted units usually end up worse at maximum level, they can hog experience, leave your other units too weak, ect. But you've yet to learn how to look at them on an individual level, and you're too dismissive of them. Some prepromotes are junk, others are great for support, and some are genuinely good.

Okay I admit that I was wrong on the prepromoted units (but it seems to me Wolf and Sedgar are the only exception in this game), but what other units in this game other than Wofl and Sedgar actually benefit from a class change?
---

Reis posted...

shadow dragon and new mystery of the emblem are bad games

they should have remade 4 and 5 instead, and not use that ugly ass style

New Mystery really isn't bad at all though.

New Mystery has the Kris problem ruining its story, but it's perfectly fine in gameplay.
---

Prestoff posted...

what other units in this game other than Wofl and Sedgar actually benefit from a class change?

The Pegasisters make beast ass swordmasters.

In fact, Wolf and Sedgar as Berserkers, with Catria and Est as Swordmasters was like the pvp meta back in the day.

DarkChozoGhost posted...

Ah. I can see how experienced with the series you are. You've played enough to know about some of the pitfalls of the game, but you're still an amateur. Prepromoted units usually end up worse at maximum level, they can hog experience, leave your other units too weak, ect. But you've yet to learn how to look at them on an individual level, and you're too dismissive of them. Some prepromotes are junk, others are great for support, and some are genuinely good.

This probably understates the usefulness of prepromotes and overstates the danger of using them. Prepromotes are just units. Some of them will always be miles ahead of most of your other units (see: FE6 Hard Mode Percival). Some of them basically average the same as a non-promoted counterpart but start way ahead and with better weapon ranks (Pent), saving you a ton of investment and a promotion item. Some are utter garbage from the get-go (Dozla). Some don't end up as literally the best unit in your army, but start out godly and remain pretty darn good, allowing you to use them all game (Seth, Titania).

The thing people often forget is that it takes ten levels for a 10% difference in growth rate to average out to one stat point. Bases are hugely important, and a lot of prepromotes have really solid bases. Yeah, they don't get promo gains, but their bases are still solid when you include that.

Heck, look at FE10, where literally every unit that wasn't a prepromote was utter garbage (granted, there were two tiers of promotion in that game, but it's still true). Meg and Edward are the only two that are even salvageable with favoritism.

It is almost always essential to use your strongest early units, usually prepromotes, to survive the early stages of a Hard Mode run in Fire Emblem. Yeah, they can end up taking a few kills, but you'll likely not end up using most of the units you have early on after a certain point anyway, and your lords will get enough exp without much effort (except for Eliwood in HHM, anyway...)
---

Prestoff posted...

But yeah my friend told me that they were planning on remaking a bunch of old FE but since this game was so bad it basically almost killed off the series all together if it were not for Awakening.

kinda like what happened to the Mega Man Powered Up series and the Maverick Hunter X series.

Both games games sold poorly, so further remakes were axed

Of course, being released exclusively on the friggin' PSP didn't help, if they were on the DS/3DS they would have sold well enough
---

HylianFox posted...

Both games games sold poorly, so further remakes were axed

From what I have seen (VGChartz isn't exactly reliable, grain of salt, etc.) it actually sold better than both Tellius games.

It's also of note that Echoes is a remake of FE2.

the_rowan posted...

DarkChozoGhost posted...

Ah. I can see how experienced with the series you are. You've played enough to know about some of the pitfalls of the game, but you're still an amateur. Prepromoted units usually end up worse at maximum level, they can hog experience, leave your other units too weak, ect. But you've yet to learn how to look at them on an individual level, and you're too dismissive of them. Some prepromotes are junk, others are great for support, and some are genuinely good.

This probably understates the usefulness of prepromotes and overstates the danger of using them. Prepromotes are just units. Some of them will always be miles ahead of most of your other units (see: FE6 Hard Mode Percival). Some of them basically average the same as a non-promoted counterpart but start way ahead and with better weapon ranks (Pent), saving you a ton of investment and a promotion item. Some are utter garbage from the get-go (Dozla). Some don't end up as literally the best unit in your army, but start out godly and remain pretty darn good, allowing you to use them all game (Seth, Titania).

The thing people often forget is that it takes ten levels for a 10% difference in growth rate to average out to one stat point. Bases are hugely important, and a lot of prepromotes have really solid bases. Yeah, they don't get promo gains, but their bases are still solid when you include that.

Heck, look at FE10, where literally every unit that wasn't a prepromote was utter garbage (granted, there were two tiers of promotion in that game, but it's still true). Meg and Edward are the only two that are even salvageable with favoritism.

It is almost always essential to use your strongest early units, usually prepromotes, to survive the early stages of a Hard Mode run in Fire Emblem. Yeah, they can end up taking a few kills, but you'll likely not end up using most of the units you have early on after a certain point anyway, and your lords will get enough exp without much effort (except for Eliwood in HHM, anyway...)

This is true. I was trying to ease him into the concept. I remember my like, third and fourth playthrough of 7, when I unequipped Marcus and just used him to bait enemies (which is still using him honestly, even if it's not making the best use of him).
---