Current Events > I can't stand it when people think talent doesn't exist

(+) Yeah! (+)

Of course practicing for hundreds of hours is going to help you, but there are some people who are naturally gifted at learning certain things. Some people can pick up things faster than others. Some people have a stronger "drive" to get better.

A stronger drive to get better is the opposite of talent

I'm in the 10,000 hours crowd
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Yeah I could devote my life to playing basketball, but my 5'9" white ass could never make it in the NBA.
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voldothegr8 posted...

Yeah I could devote my life to playing basketball, but my 5'9" white ass could never make it in the NBA.

Is being tall a talent?

I don't think the idea that "all things equal, he's just better than me" is a thing. There's a good netflix doc about Lance Armstrong. Is Lance just better than all of the other doping riders? The other doping riders lived and breathed cycling, but Lance was obsessive, competitive, and extremely cutthroat. He clawed his way to the top. There's no natural talent there, only ridiculous levels of devotion.
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No one thinks that
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LeBron James has that mindset. That all are created equal and hard work can get you anywhere.

I think it's a good mindset to have, but it's difficult to hear from someone as freakishly athletic as him. Even had I worked out from the time i was a child to now, I'd be no where close to matching his athleticism.

Natural talent does exist.

Everyone sucks equally at everything imo
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voldothegr8 posted...

Yeah I could devote my life to playing basketball, but my 5'9" white ass could never make it in the NBA.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_shortest_players_in_National_Basketball_Association_history

Its rare, but it can happen.

Better start practicing!
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I hate it too, makes for many medicore artists

there will always be people who get better at things faster than others and there will always be people who have the capability of going past a ceiling that most people end up hitting, those two types of people are generally the ones you see in the top levels of athletic competition.
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The problem is when people discredit your work because they think you're naturally talented, or try to say they can't do it themselves because they aren't talented enough.

Sure some people learn faster than others, but hours practiced will always beat natural talent. The person who spends 10,000 hours struggling will be better than the person who spent 5000 hours but picked it up quick.
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markconigliaro posted...

The problem is when people discredit your work because they think you're naturally talented, or try to say they can't do it themselves because they aren't talented enough.

Sure some people learn faster than others, but hours practiced will always beat natural talent. The person who spends 10,000 hours struggling will be better than the person who spent 5000 hours but picked it up quick.

then there will be a guy off the street who spends 10 hours doing it who will be better than both those people.

hunger is the true required attribute that is needed to excel at anything and to continue staying at a high level.
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Of course talent exists, though it's also required to succeed as "hard work" doesn't amount to anything.

Haves and have-nots, that's the way it's always been, and it all starts with what you were born with. Case in point; I didn't win the genetic lottery, so I'm doomed to failure no matter what I do, I could practice for 1,000,000 hours and still never get better at anything.
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markconigliaro posted...

The problem is when people discredit your work because they think you're naturally talented, or try to say they can't do it themselves because they aren't talented enough.

Sure some people learn faster than others, but hours practiced will always beat natural talent. The person who spends 10,000 hours struggling will be better than the person who spent 5000 hours but picked it up quick.

I have two Mario rom hack twitch streamers followed. One is thousands of hours deep, and has barely cleared half the game. It took him somewhere near 100 hours to beat just the first level.

The other one beat it within a week of its release, and now runs it in under 45 minutes going for world record.

No amount of practice will ever make the first streamer on equal footing as the second.
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buddhamonster posted...

markconigliaro posted...

The problem is when people discredit your work because they think you're naturally talented, or try to say they can't do it themselves because they aren't talented enough.

Sure some people learn faster than others, but hours practiced will always beat natural talent. The person who spends 10,000 hours struggling will be better than the person who spent 5000 hours but picked it up quick.

I have two Mario rom hack twitch streamers followed. One is thousands of hours deep, and has barely cleared half the game. It took him somewhere near 100 hours to beat just the first level.

The other one beat it within a week of its release, and now runs it in under 45 minutes going for world record.

No amount of practice will ever make the first streamer on equal footing as the second.

an interesting example lol but I like it

Colorahdo posted...

voldothegr8 posted...

Yeah I could devote my life to playing basketball, but my 5'9" white ass could never make it in the NBA.

Is being tall a talent?

I don't think the idea that "all things equal, he's just better than me" is a thing. There's a good netflix doc about Lance Armstrong. Is Lance just better than all of the other doping riders? The other doping riders lived and breathed cycling, but Lance was obsessive, competitive, and extremely cutthroat. He clawed his way to the top. There's no natural talent there, only ridiculous levels of devotion.

it's both obviously
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buddhamonster posted...

No amount of practice will ever make the first streamer on equal footing as the second.

Well that's just a nagative outlook. There is another important thing though, when people say "practice for 10000 hours" they mean actual, helpful practice. There's a difference between real practice and just going through the motions for whatever reason.

Maybe streamer 1 is just playing for fun, interacting with chat, and just seeing how far he can get because he doesn't care about breaking records, it's just fun. While streamer 2 is analysing all his moves. He knows Mario's foot needs to be on that pixel with that much speed and jump is held for this many seconds to make the jump. One of those is a productive practice, the other is not. That doesn't mean that streamer 1 CAN'T do what streamer 2 does, he just doesn't want to. Or maybe he does want to but doesn't know how to look for pixel perfect jumps, then he can get help (probably from streamer 2) to get some advice/lessons/coaching.

It's easier for me to explain this topic in my terms, as I'm a professional juggler. Some practice days I want to get better at a pattern, so I just do the pattern and hope it looks nice. That's not a productive practice, and while sure my hour count went up, I didn't actually make any progress. Some practice days I say to myself "I don't have enough time to throw this because my left hand is throwing too low, let's focus on keeping my left throws the same height as my right" and from then on I'm focusing mainly on my left throws. That's a productive practice, those are the hours that matter.
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Natural talent is a myth. If someone is truly good at something (and not just okay), it took dedication to get there.
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rattlesnake30 posted...

Of course practicing for hundreds of hours is going to help you, but there are some people who are naturally gifted at learning certain things. Some people can pick up things faster than others. Some people have a stronger "drive" to get better.

I saw it all the time when I taught piano but I guess it's more noticeable at first with things like music... I'd get one kid every year or so who never had a music lesson in their life, but would pick up FAST; it was all about quick replication of what I was doing or what I'd have them listen to. Other students got there eventually after a lot of aural training, but some just have an inherent understanding of things.

This doesn't always translate into practice, though...I had one student who definitely had perfect pitch, but she lacked the coordination to actually play very well
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Pepys Monster posted...

Natural talent is a myth. If someone is truly good at something (and not just okay), it took dedication to get there.

na sometimes you have 1 in a 1,000,000,000 freaks that get lined up with a great activity, like usain with sprinting and tyson with boxing. even with ped's or not, those two were made for their sports.
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Awesome posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

Natural talent is a myth. If someone is truly good at something (and not just okay), it took dedication to get there.

na sometimes you have 1 in a 1,000,000,000 freaks that get lined up with a great activity, like usain with sprinting and tyson with boxing. even with ped's or not, those two were made for their sports.

They put in a LOT of hard work. Mike Tyson wasn't heavyweight champion material the first day he put on a pair of boxing gloves.
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Neji agrees
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natural talent definitely exists and hard work can not substitute it. Some people are just naturally better at some things than others
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Pepys Monster posted...

Awesome posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

Natural talent is a myth. If someone is truly good at something (and not just okay), it took dedication to get there.

na sometimes you have 1 in a 1,000,000,000 freaks that get lined up with a great activity, like usain with sprinting and tyson with boxing. even with ped's or not, those two were made for their sports.

They put in a LOT of hard work. Mike Tyson wasn't heavyweight champion material the first day he put on a pair of boxing gloves.

im not talking about that. im saying how some people are good for something without needing a lot of time put into it.
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Pepys Monster posted...

Natural talent is a myth. If someone is truly good at something (and not just okay), it took dedication to get there.

Key posted...

natural talent definitely exists and hard work can not substitute it. Some people are just naturally better at some things than others

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Shit. Some people are born with amazing reflexes and others will get hit by the ball every single time.
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Some people will just be naturally better at certain things. We're not all equal.
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Pepys Monster posted...

Awesome posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

Natural talent is a myth. If someone is truly good at something (and not just okay), it took dedication to get there.

na sometimes you have 1 in a 1,000,000,000 freaks that get lined up with a great activity, like usain with sprinting and tyson with boxing. even with ped's or not, those two were made for their sports.

They put in a LOT of hard work. Mike Tyson wasn't heavyweight champion material the first day he put on a pair of boxing gloves.

hard work can definitely build on top of natural talent but it cant substitute it. Even out side of sports look at academics not everyone has the same potential for whatever they're doing. it's why some people work really hard just to barely understand middle tier math classes. where others can pick up even higher level math classes easily. and this isn't just the case for math its everything. some people are just naturally more talented than others
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I have no talent. Mr. Tentacles has all the talent. If I'm lucky, Mr. Talent will rub his tentacles all over my art.
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natural talent is a myth, but its more accurate to reframe it
learning things is also a skill, and this skill starts from 0 but is developed since infanthood, and THAT's wehre "natural talent" comes from, is when people are raised to learn things well, and thus they pick up things that seem like they have a natural calling for when in reality theyre just fast learners

no one is "born" with talent, its just that the early period when theyre being raised is delicate and babies are receptive to what theyre given
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World class athletes both have a ton of natural talent and work hard.

Lol at Lebron saying its all about hard work. Thats like if Kylie Jenner or whichever one said that getting rich is all about hard work.
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voldothegr8 posted...

Yeah I could devote my life to playing basketball, but my 5'9" white ass could never make it in the NBA.

Muggsy Bogues made it into the NBA at 5ft 3inches
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I feel like some of the people saying natural talent doesnt exist havent played sports at a high level. In every sport Ive played theres always those few guys that have horrible work ethic, but manage to excel because theyre just good. They have natural talent.
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