Current Events > Do Richard Spencer and other Neo-Nazis deserve to be punched?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I say yeah. My reasoning is that people with their toxic beliefs take advantage of a free speech society. If they were to be left unchecked, they could rise in influence and take positions of power unless there are people who could lay down the law and give 'em a good smacking.
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Yeah, because fuck them and fuck them and fuck them. Who the fuck needs a better reason than that to punch a fucking Nazi?
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Nuremberg taught us some pretty useful lessons on how to deal with neo-nazis. But punching is pretty ok too.
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punching nazis and commies is one of the most american things you can do
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absolutely
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

punching nazis and commies is one of the most american things you can do

Unknown860 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

punching nazis and commies is one of the most american things you can do

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StarReaper13 posted...

Unknown860 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

punching nazis and commies is one of the most american things you can do

They've been proven time and time again to be wrong. We've known Communism doesn't work for decades. We've known Nazi's are wrong for decades. At this point, we're just doing them a favor.
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if you're standing there shouting about how you advocate for genocide then i won't feel sorry for you if someone punches you. you are a piece of shit.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

punching nazis and commies is one of the most american things you can do

always has to deflect to communism

Alphamon posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

punching nazis and commies is one of the most american things you can do

always has to deflect to communism

Including communists with nazis as groups he approves of punching isn't really a deflection.
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Yes and then kicked.
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physically assaulting people for their beliefs doesn't change their beliefs, and at worst reinforces and further radicalizes them
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TheMikh posted...

physically assaulting people for their beliefs doesn't change their beliefs, and at worst reinforces and further radicalizes them

What about when your beliefs literally advocate violence against a group of people?
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Alphamon posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

punching nazis and commies is one of the most american things you can do

always has to deflect to communism

hey buddy what are your thoughts on Karl Marx?
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TheMikh posted...

physically assaulting people for their beliefs doesn't change their beliefs, and at worst reinforces and further radicalizes them

True, for worthwhile ideaologies.

Punching a Nazi is like slapping an old TV. If you hit it just right, maybe it'll stop fucking everything up.
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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

TheMikh posted...

physically assaulting people for their beliefs doesn't change their beliefs, and at worst reinforces and further radicalizes them

What about when your beliefs literally advocate violence against a group of people?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clear_and_present_danger
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TheMikh posted...

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

TheMikh posted...

physically assaulting people for their beliefs doesn't change their beliefs, and at worst reinforces and further radicalizes them

What about when your beliefs literally advocate violence against a group of people?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clear_and_present_danger

imagine using this defense in favor of literal neo nazis

lmao
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DrizztLink posted...

TheMikh posted...

physically assaulting people for their beliefs doesn't change their beliefs, and at worst reinforces and further radicalizes them

True, for worthwhile ideaologies.

Punching a Nazi is like slapping an old TV. If you hit it just right, maybe it'll stop fucking everything up.

once upon a time a popular reactionary scholar in egypt was tortured for his dissidence and his writing grew so radical as a result of that torture that he literally gave birth to the philosophy that influences religious terrorists in the middle east and beyond and has diffused even to the more radical elements of the reactionary right in the west

violence has a butterfly effect
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TheMikh posted...

DrizztLink posted...

TheMikh posted...

physically assaulting people for their beliefs doesn't change their beliefs, and at worst reinforces and further radicalizes them

True, for worthwhile ideaologies.

Punching a Nazi is like slapping an old TV. If you hit it just right, maybe it'll stop fucking everything up.

once upon a time a popular reactionary scholar in egypt was tortured for his dissidence and his writing grew so radical as a result of that torture that he literally gave birth to the philosophy that influences religious terrorists in the middle east and beyond and has diffused even to the more radical elements of the reactionary right in the west

violence has a butterfly effect

This didn't happen in 2016, it didn't happen in 2017, it's not happening in 2018, and it's never gonna happen in the future. Nobody is looking at nazis getting punched and thinking that ethnic cleansing is now an ok thing to do. Awareness is not the same as support. Just because people are doing more Google searches about white supremacists after they get punched doesn't mean that they're signing up for their ideology as well.

You're gonna have to give up this fiction that punching nazis only makes them more powerful.
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A_Good_Boy posted...

This didn't happen in 2016, it didn't happen in 2017, it's not happening in 2018, and it's never gonna happen in the future. Nobody is looking at nazis getting punched and thinking that ethnic cleansing is now an ok thing to do. Awareness is not the same as support. Just because people are doing more Google searches about white supremacists after they get punched doesn't mean that they're signing up for their ideology as well.

You're gonna have to give up this fiction that punching nazis only makes them more powerful.

human nature doesn't change overnight, and therefore the same principles apply

punching nazis doesn't earn them sympathizers but it certainly makes the nazis themselves more passionate about their own ideology and hateful towards detractors

there's also a compelling case that the silencing through force or censorship drives a streisand effect of a sort, which could net a few new supporters

assaulting the far right during public demonstrations only made them more eager and prepared for violence and even murderous acts during subsequent demonstrations

as much as it irks many people, the best way to defuse their ideological reach is to openly and comprehensively debate and critique points of their ideology (and thus invalidate, in the public consciousness, any fundamental rationale for the undesirable praxis these groups advocate)

at the same time, addressing any legitimate grievances they harbor may be worthwhile as well, because the movement hasn't just blown up for no reason

this all may require some uncomfortable soul searching with respect to certain aspects of the social and political zeitgeist

ideological fringes - far left or far right - tend to lure vulnerable minds into a sea of lies with a grain of truth
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It feels like a no-win situation. If neo-Nazis are met with force, they can claim to be victims and martyrs for their cause, and strengthen their existing members' resolve while painting their opposition as violent brutes. If they are allowed to preach spread their views, they could incite others to action and bolster their ranks.

They can't be banned from public spaces with existing laws, lest it become unjustly applied to other groups. The most that can currently be done is for private properties to deny them platforms - but even then, they can play the victim.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HivxFBB87-Y" data-time="
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People here really didn't learn shit from history.
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I would also do a few leg drops then lock in the Sharpshooter.
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M_Live posted...

Rimmer_Dall posted...

People here really didn't learn shit from history.

We punched the shit outta them in WW2

Actually, punching Nazi POWs and civilians would've gotten you charged with war crimes. Either way, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the 20s when the Nazis used the violence they faced as a propaganda tool to gain support and seize power.
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They deserve it but we must live in a society that respects free expression and the rule of law.
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TheMikh posted...

physically assaulting people for their beliefs doesn't change their beliefs, and at worst reinforces and further radicalizes them

you seem to be under the impression we give a damn about reforming nazis...nah, fam. I'm just here to see them get duffed
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beat up people who think the opposition are violent

that seems like a smart idea

I thought Richard Spencer was just a white nationalist? Not that it's a good thing, but it doesn't mean full blown Neo Nazi
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FrisbeeDude posted...

TheMikh posted...

physically assaulting people for their beliefs doesn't change their beliefs, and at worst reinforces and further radicalizes them

you seem to be under the impression we give a damn about reforming nazis...nah, fam. I'm just here to see them get duffed

Satisfying as it may be, I worry about giving them fuel to come back stronger.
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It has little effect either way beyond occasionally meekening the more spineless out of taking big public platforms
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Has anyone here actually listened to what he's said or are you just tribalist and taking everyone else's word for it that he's a Nazi?

I watched his "debate" with Sargon, the dude is a monumental tool, bigot, liar, inconsistent hypocrite, racist, internet troll, and pro-aristocracy vile piece of shit . . . but nothing he said warrants a Bush Doctrine preemptive strike against him or the suspension of his Constitutional rights.
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Probably, that doesn't mean it's okay to do it
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Maybe, but that doesn't mean he actually should.
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

Has anyone here actually listened to what he's said or are you just tribalist and taking everyone else's word for it that he's a Nazi?

I watched his "debate" with Sargon, the dude is a monumental tool, bigot, liar, inconsistent hypocrite, racist, internet troll, and pro-aristocracy vile piece of shit . . . but nothing he said warrants a Bush Doctrine preemptive strike against him or the suspension of his Constitutional rights.

I have, he's a total piece of shit
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TheMikh posted...

human nature doesn't change overnight, and therefore the same principles apply

punching nazis doesn't earn them sympathizers but it certainly makes the nazis themselves more passionate about their own ideology and hateful towards detractors

there's also a compelling case that the silencing through force or censorship drives a streisand effect of a sort, which could net a few new supporters

assaulting the far right during public demonstrations only made them more eager and prepared for violence and even murderous acts during subsequent demonstrations

as much as it irks many people, the best way to defuse their ideological reach is to openly and comprehensively debate and critique points of their ideology (and thus invalidate, in the public consciousness, any fundamental rationale for the undesirable praxis these groups advocate)

at the same time, addressing any legitimate grievances they harbor may be worthwhile as well, because the movement hasn't just blown up for no reason

this all may require some uncomfortable soul searching with respect to certain aspects of the social and political zeitgeist

ideological fringes - far left or far right - tend to lure vulnerable minds into a sea of lies with a grain of truth

I dunno, this seems to be an argument by assertion to me, some of which I very strongly doubt to be true. In particular, the idea that a 'public debate' where you critique points of ideology is a more effective tactic than physical resistance seems to be an open question and also one that is at the heart of this argument.

I mean, it is true that punching nazis might strengthen the resolve of nazis rather than cow them into submission. It also might not do that. Similarly, maybe public discourse can defuse nazi sympathies, or maybe it doesn't. Your argument here seems to be more predicated on morals and your vision for how to change society than any empirical evidence that punching nazis is or isn't helpful
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Balrog0 posted...

TheMikh posted...

human nature doesn't change overnight, and therefore the same principles apply

punching nazis doesn't earn them sympathizers but it certainly makes the nazis themselves more passionate about their own ideology and hateful towards detractors

there's also a compelling case that the silencing through force or censorship drives a streisand effect of a sort, which could net a few new supporters

assaulting the far right during public demonstrations only made them more eager and prepared for violence and even murderous acts during subsequent demonstrations

as much as it irks many people, the best way to defuse their ideological reach is to openly and comprehensively debate and critique points of their ideology (and thus invalidate, in the public consciousness, any fundamental rationale for the undesirable praxis these groups advocate)

at the same time, addressing any legitimate grievances they harbor may be worthwhile as well, because the movement hasn't just blown up for no reason

this all may require some uncomfortable soul searching with respect to certain aspects of the social and political zeitgeist

ideological fringes - far left or far right - tend to lure vulnerable minds into a sea of lies with a grain of truth

I dunno, this seems to be an argument by assertion to me, some of which I very strongly doubt to be true. In particular, the idea that a 'public debate' where you critique points of ideology is a more effective tactic than physical resistance seems to be an open question and also one that is at the heart of this argument.

I mean, it is true that punching nazis might strengthen the resolve of nazis rather than cow them into submission. It also might not do that. Similarly, maybe public discourse can defuse nazi sympathies, or maybe it doesn't. Your argument here seems to be more predicated on morals and your vision for how to change society than any empirical evidence that punching nazis is or isn't helpful

the enlightenment is literally a mountain of evidence that reasoned debate in the form of critiquing ideology is the most effective tactic for effecting change. it's been the western tradition for a long time and is arguably one of the major reasons why the west has led the world for this long now.
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

Has anyone here actually listened to what he's said or are you just tribalist and taking everyone else's word for it that he's a Nazi?

I watched his "debate" with Sargon, the dude is a monumental tool, bigot, liar, inconsistent hypocrite, racist, internet troll, and pro-aristocracy vile piece of shit . . . but nothing he said warrants a Bush Doctrine preemptive strike against him or the suspension of his Constitutional rights.

He gives the salute of a regime that stacked skeletal corpses seven feet high while they were waiting to be incinerated.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

the enlightenment is literally a mountain of evidence that reasoned debate in the form of critiquing ideology is the most effective tactic for effecting change

uuuuh what

FLUFFYGERM posted...

it's been the western tradition for a long time and is arguably one of the major reasons why the west has led the world for this long now.

maybe that's true, I dunno, but didn't most people think you could stop hitler with reasoned discourse and through the use of our western institutions like representative democracy?
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Balrog0 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

the enlightenment is literally a mountain of evidence that reasoned debate in the form of critiquing ideology is the most effective tactic for effecting change

uuuuh what

FLUFFYGERM posted...

it's been the western tradition for a long time and is arguably one of the major reasons why the west has led the world for this long now.

maybe that's true, I dunno, but didn't most people think you could stop hitler with reasoned discourse and through the use of our western institutions like representative democracy?

obviously if it's already degraded into a world war, you need to use weapons rather than words.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

obviously if it's already degraded into a world war, you need to use weapons rather than words.

it didn't start out as a world war... I dunno if you're being facetious or not
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ledbowman posted...

He gives the salute of a regime that stacked skeletal corpses seven feet high while they were waiting to be incinerated.

Was there a point to this post?
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IF you respond to an opinion with physical violence then you've automatically lost.

Anyone who says yes to this a horrible person and far worse than anyone who holds bad opinions.

Real life actions are superior to mental thoughts.
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

ledbowman posted...

He gives the salute of a regime that stacked skeletal corpses seven feet high while they were waiting to be incinerated.

Was there a point to this post?

Yes. We don't have to take anybody's word that he's a Nazi. He gleefully shows us himself.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

Real life actions are superior to mental thoughts.

I agree with that.

Do you think there's no difference between:

Person A, who has racist thoughts

and

Person B, who has racist thoughts, and then acts on them to create an entire ecosystem of organizations and institutions to support advocacy for a US ethnostate

?
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i think it depends on the neo nazi, if they're some scrawny looking 4chan nerd they're losing all their teeth, but if they look like ed norton from american history x then i'd probably just try and piss him off as little as possible and hope that he makes friends with a funny black dude in prison that shows him the errors of his way
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Romulox28 posted...

i think it depends on the neo nazi, if they're some scrawny looking 4chan nerd they're losing all their teeth, but if they look like ed norton from american history x then i'd probably just try and piss him off as little as possible and hope that he makes friends with a funny black dude in prison that shows him the errors of his way

This
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