Poll of the Day > lol, people are legit upset with sylvanas windrunner?

(+) Yeah! (+)

yeah wow, what a stretch for an evil she-elf banshee to do something evil, ok?

let's boycott blizzard because the war of the feelings continues, ok?
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I only know of her because of hearthstone.

What did she do in Warcraft?
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green dragon posted...

I only know of her because of hearthstone.

What did she do in Warcraft?

she burned all of teldrassil to the ground, ok?
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green dragon posted...

I only know of her because of hearthstone.

What did she do in Warcraft?

She is the warcheif of the horde faction and burnt the night elf capital of teldrassil (a gigantic tree) down. She has also been using "blight" (undead chemicals) in warfare even though it affects both side.
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Aculo posted...

yeah wow, what a stretch for an evil she-elf banshee to do something evil, ok?

let's boycott blizzard because the war of the feelings continues, ok?

Honestly a lot of the rage comes from the fact that we had this same plot two expansions ago.
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but why is that... something to be mad about?

I'm starting WoW for the first time ever this weekend. Do they catch you up on the story or do I have to play through all of it?

DrPrimemaster posted...

Aculo posted...

yeah wow, what a stretch for an evil she-elf banshee to do something evil, ok?

let's boycott blizzard because the war of the feelings continues, ok?

Honestly a lot of the rage comes from the fact that we had this same plot two expansions ago.

bro, it's warcraft, literally every single main villain is a fallen or corrupted hero, ok?

it's like expecting james bond to be gay all of a sudden, and then suddenly being outraged when he fucks another woman, ok?
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DrPrimemaster posted...

Aculo posted...

yeah wow, what a stretch for an evil she-elf banshee to do something evil, ok?

let's boycott blizzard because the war of the feelings continues, ok?

Honestly a lot of the rage comes from the fact that we had this same plot two expansions ago.

im pretty sure that was the plot in the OG WC3 game too
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Aculo posted...

DrPrimemaster posted...

Aculo posted...

yeah wow, what a stretch for an evil she-elf banshee to do something evil, ok?

let's boycott blizzard because the war of the feelings continues, ok?

Honestly a lot of the rage comes from the fact that we had this same plot two expansions ago.

bro, it's warcraft, literally every single main villain is a fallen or corrupted hero, ok?

it's like expecting james bond to be gay all of a sudden, and then suddenly being outraged when he fucks another woman, ok?

Nah Sylv has always been evil, thats not the problem. Its another horde warchief becoming the main villain of the expac again. And the fact that we are having the horde warchief doing awful things and no one in the horde is saying anything even though we had this happen already, so you'd think they would actually speak up and not go along with it.
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GanglyKhan posted...

I'm starting WoW for the first time ever this weekend. Do they catch you up on the story or do I have to play through all of it?

You are basically caught up on the story, you're good to start at any time basically.
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DrPrimemaster posted...

green dragon posted...

I only know of her because of hearthstone.

What did she do in Warcraft?

She is the warcheif of the horde faction and burnt the night elf capital of teldrassil (a gigantic tree) down. She has also been using "blight" (undead chemicals) in warfare even though it affects both side.

sounds like a true leader and hero
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DrPrimemaster posted...

Aculo posted...

DrPrimemaster posted...

Aculo posted...

yeah wow, what a stretch for an evil she-elf banshee to do something evil, ok?

let's boycott blizzard because the war of the feelings continues, ok?

Honestly a lot of the rage comes from the fact that we had this same plot two expansions ago.

bro, it's warcraft, literally every single main villain is a fallen or corrupted hero, ok?

it's like expecting james bond to be gay all of a sudden, and then suddenly being outraged when he fucks another woman, ok?

Nah Sylv has always been evil, thats not the problem. Its another horde warchief becoming the main villain of the expac again. And the fact that we are having the horde warchief doing awful things and no one in the horde is saying anything even though we had this happen already, so you'd think they would actually speak up and not go along with it.

Oh no way, I didn't realize you had played through the expansion already, ok?
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People were mega pissed when it first happened because the strategic reasons behind why she did it weren't properly conveyed in-game, nor was there any indication that anyone had any kind of problem with what she was doing. Excerpts from a novella were revealed where she discussed with Saurfang about why war with the Alliance was necessary.

"You are not Garrosh Hellscream, why do you want to throw the Horde into the meat grinder again?

Sylvanass eyes did not waver, even in the face of his rage. "If I dedicated myself to peace with the Alliance, would it last a year?"

"Yes," Saurfang said curtly.

"How about two years? Five? Ten? Fifty?"

Saurfang felt the trap closing in on him, and he did not like it. "We fought side-by-side against the Burning Legion. That creates bonds that are not easily broken.

"Time breaks every bond." Sylvanas leaned across the table. Her words flew like arrows. "What do you believe? Will peace last five years or fifty?"

He leaned forward, too, his face inches away from hers. Neither blinked. "What I believe doesnt matter, Warchief. What do you believe?"

"I believe the exiles of Gilneas will never forgive the Horde for driving them away. I believe the living humans of Lordaeron think it is blasphemy that my people still hold their city. I believe the ancient divide between our allies in Silvermoon and their kin in Darnassus is not easily mended." There was a smile on Sylvanas face. It was not a pleasant one.

"I believe the Darkspear tribe hasnt forgotten who drove them from their islands," she continued. "I believe every orc your age remembers being imprisoned for years in filthy camps, wallowing in despair and surviving on human scraps. I believe every human remembers the tales of the terrible Horde that caused so much destruction in its first invasion, and I believe they blame every orc for that, no matter what you people have done to redeem yourselves. And I remember very well that my first Forsaken were once loyal Alliance citizens. We died for that banner, and our reward was to be hunted as vermin. I believe that there will be no permanent peace with the Alliance not unless we win it on the battlefield on our terms. And believing that, answer this, Saurfang: what use is delaying the inevitable? "

"The boy in Stormwind will not start a war tomorrow," Saurfang said.

Her eyebrows lowered. "With Genn Greymane in his ear? We will see. "

That was a concern, Saurfang had to concede. In the thick of fighting against the Burning Legion, Greymane had launched a mission to kill Sylvanas. It had gotten some of Stormwinds few remaining airships destroyed.

There were whispers that Greymane had ordered the attack without Anduins permission, but as far as Saurfang knew, Greymane had not been punished. The implications of that were troubling, and every possible explanation led to the same conclusion: the old Worgen would always drive the Alliance toward war against the Horde.

Sylvanas eyes glittered. "And the boy is becoming a man. What if that man decides that he has no choice but to launch war on us?"
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Regarding her objectives during the war, which many at first assumed were changed to spite the nelfs: She first attacked Teldrassil to achieve three objectives. First was to occupy Darnassus to cut off Azerite supply to the Eastern Kingdoms to try to prevent the Alliance from amassing any. Second was to force a political crisis upon Anduin as the worgen and nelfs bickered about which homeland to reclaim first. Third hasn't been openly stated yet except that it was a "worrying" reason, but it's probably Old Gods shit.

She realized her second objective wouldn't happen during her conversation in the cinematic; that they would retain hope of reclaiming the homeland and possibly be even fiercer enemies. That the worgen and night elves were too unified at this point to be split apart by her schemes. So she was forced to abandon the second objective while accomplishing the first and third.

Remember that ever since the Siege of Orgrimmar, the Alliance has absolutely been the dominant power. Varian could have wiped them off the face of the earth if he wanted to, and that power discrepancy still hadn't been recified. Two major military victories (remember that all of the alliance forces assaulting the Undercity were killed by blight, while Sylvannas retreated her remnants) have put them arguably on equal ground, though.

Sylvannas is absolutely amoral and probably evil. But she is acting in the interests of the Horde in her own way. Following Saurfang's battle plans would have led to an absolute defeat; even Saurfang begrudgingly agrees she is making the "correct" decisions, even if they were ones he'd never entertain in the least.

Sylvannas has been like this ever since late Wrath when she jumped off Icecrown Citadel, experienced the Shadowlands, and decided to do whatever she could to avoid death. She stopped seeing her subordinates as pawns to be thrown away as Garrosh did, but instead as shields to protect her from death.

She's a terrible person, but at least she isn't flippantly evil like we thought the cutscene first implied.
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that is some nerd ass shit
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... WOW has existed for too long if the lore has reached this level of head-in-ass ...
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Imagine thinking WoW is still relevant.
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https://i.gyazo.com/fefef52ac131b53eef413586b0bd1aa2.png

WoW is riding as high as it's ever been since the overall sucess of Legion. It's an extremely common sentiment amongst older players that it was the best expansion since (*insert whatever expansion they started in here*). BfA's scale is smaller, but it's busting out good plot as of 8.01.
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SunWuKung420 posted...

Imagine thinking WoW is still relevant.

Imagine thinking being a bus boy at age 45 is cool, ok?
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ASlaveObeys posted...

but why is that... something to be mad about?

Because it makes her a hypocrite. She once was an elf defending her Homeland from invading zombies before she got turned into a banshee. Now she led an army of orcs to slaughter cousins of her race. She's turned into the very thing she once fought

I don't think it necessarily makes her a hypocrite, because the old Sylvanas and the post-WotLK Sylvanas are almost two entirely different people. She believes her old self to be a fool. In the years since WotLK, she has been consistently safeguarding against her own death at all costs.
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Zikten posted...

ASlaveObeys posted...

but why is that... something to be mad about?

Because it makes her a hypocrite. She once was an elf defending her Homeland from invading zombies before she got turned into a banshee. Now she led an army of orcs to slaughter cousins of her race. She's turned into the very thing she once fought

Ok, racist DC guy. Again, why is that something to be mad about?
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Zikten posted...

ASlaveObeys posted...

but why is that... something to be mad about?

Because it makes her a hypocrite. She once was an elf defending her Homeland from invading zombies before she got turned into a banshee. Now she led an army of orcs to slaughter cousins of her race. She's turned into the very thing she once fought

Right but isn't she a corrupt undead evil leader now?
She's a fallen hero, that sounds exactly like something she should do.

ASlaveObeys posted...

Zikten posted...

ASlaveObeys posted...

but why is that... something to be mad about?

Because it makes her a hypocrite. She once was an elf defending her Homeland from invading zombies before she got turned into a banshee. Now she led an army of orcs to slaughter cousins of her race. She's turned into the very thing she once fought

Right but isn't she a corrupt undead evil leader now?
She's a fallen hero, that sounds exactly like something she should do.

She's not supposed to be. She was freed from the lich king's control when he died.
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allys are the true bad guys anyway.

they attacked horde races because of their looks
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chaosbowser posted...

She's not supposed to be. She was freed from the lich king's control when he died.

The Undead are basically sociopaths who only care about survival and revenge. At least according to Vanilla WoW quest logs.
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The Forsaken are kind of bitter about Stormwind humans rejecting them as monsters, but they're mostly just embracing undeath. They aren't any more evil than other playable races. The Blight is pretty terrible, but remember the Light has a similar affect on Forsaken, which humans are *delighted* to use on them. Development of the Blight into its current form (not a plague, but more like a gas) has also been spearheaded by mostly Sylvanas herself, not the general Forsaken public.

Sylvanas isn't really corrupt, she's still fundamentally serving the long-term interests of the Horde fairly well. She's just completely amoral and honorless in doing so, and the horde was founded on honor, which is rustling a lot of feathers.
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ninja_lootz posted...

chaosbowser posted...

She's not supposed to be. She was freed from the lich king's control when he died.

The Undead are basically sociopaths who only care about survival and revenge. At least according to Vanilla WoW quest logs.

vanilla wow also didn't let nelfs be mages for obvious reasons
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