Board 8 > Freedom, Liberty, Ron Paul - Iranian War 4.0 Edition [dwmf]

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foolm0r0n 07/26/18 7:02:11 PM #51:	Mr Lasastryke posted... well yeah but marx was like "the workers need to kill the capitalists." he didn't say "there should be a ruthless dictator who kills millions of people." The dictator is just the leader of the workers so technically that's what Stalin and Mao etc were doing. That's the whole point. If your society requires sanctioned killing to work, then it will always end up with the elite killing the weak. If you look at capital as power beyond just monetary capital, this always ends up with the capitalists on top. This is where "communism can't work" comes from. --- _foolmo_ 2 + 2 = 4 <cite>foolm0r0n posted [p:905774100] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote><cite>Mr Lasastryke posted...</cite> <quote>well yeah but marx was like "the workers need to kill the capitalists." he didn't say "there should be a ruthless dictator who kills millions of people."</quote> The dictator is just the leader of the workers so technically that's what Stalin and Mao etc were doing. That's the whole point. If your society requires sanctioned killing to work, then it will always end up with the elite killing the weak. If you look at capital as power beyond just monetary capital, this always ends up with the capitalists on top. This is where "communism can't work" comes from.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0r0n 07/26/18 7:08:49 PM #52:	SmartMuffin posted... It's more like wanting a glass of water that's 80% water and 20% cyanide. In which case no, you do not want water. If you asked for water and I gave you that, you'd be pretty damn angry, and rightfully so. How angry would you have to get to magically turn the cup into 100% water? --- _foolmo_ 2 + 2 = 4 <cite>foolm0r0n posted [p:905774404] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote><cite>SmartMuffin posted...</cite> <quote>It's more like wanting a glass of water that's 80% water and 20% cyanide. In which case no, you do not want water. If you asked for water and I gave you that, you'd be pretty damn angry, and rightfully so.</quote> How angry would you have to get to magically turn the cup into 100% water?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 07/26/18 7:10:37 PM #53:	foolm0r0n posted... The dictator is just the leader of the workers so technically that's what Stalin and Mao etc were doing. "the leader of the workers" isn't the government, though. like, first you accuse me of using the word communism in a "completely wrong way" because i was defining it as a system with a government and marx wasn't, and now you're saying marx wanted government anyway but he just defined it as "the leader of the workers"? i'm not following you anymore. --- Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:905774478] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote><cite>foolm0r0n posted...</cite> <quote>The dictator is just the leader of the workers so technically that's what Stalin and Mao etc were doing.</quote> "the leader of the workers" isn't the government, though. like, first you accuse me of using the word communism in a "completely wrong way" because i was defining it as a system with a government and marx wasn't, and now you're saying marx wanted government anyway but he just defined it as "the leader of the workers"? i'm not following you anymore.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Panthera 07/26/18 7:24:47 PM #54:	The problem is basically that the early communists described communism as a system that had no government, but they also proposed a system that required central planning, which obviously requires authority to ensure its acts are carried out. There's also the fact that the whole idea is based on the idea of giving absolute power to people in the transitional phase and expecting them to not abuse it, which is why Stalin is a good example of communism - it's pretty much inevitable that either someone like him will come along to take power or that the position will corrupt someone into being like him. So ultimately someone like Stalin was just executing the communist belief in some sort of guiding authority in its most likely real world form --- Meow! <cite>Panthera posted [p:905775092] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote>The problem is basically that the early communists described communism as a system that had no government, but they also proposed a system that required central planning, which obviously requires authority to ensure its acts are carried out. There's also the fact that the whole idea is based on the idea of giving absolute power to people in the transitional phase and expecting them to not abuse it, which is why Stalin is a good example of communism - it's pretty much inevitable that either someone like him will come along to take power or that the position will corrupt someone into being like him. So ultimately someone like Stalin was just executing the communist belief in some sort of guiding authority in its most likely real world form</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0r0n 07/26/18 7:27:49 PM #55:	Mr Lasastryke posted... "the leader of the workers" isn't the government, though It becomes the government. Obviously the ideal is no government, but it's impossible for that to happen in real life for these reasons. It's the same reason ancap can't exist. --- _foolmo_ 2 + 2 = 4 <cite>foolm0r0n posted [p:905775231] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote><cite>Mr Lasastryke posted...</cite> <quote>"the leader of the workers" isn't the government, though</quote> It becomes the government. Obviously the ideal is no government, but it's impossible for that to happen in real life for these reasons. It's the same reason ancap can't exist.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 07/26/18 7:31:44 PM #56:	still don't get how i was using the word communism in the wrong way, though. i'm just using it in the way it actually was/is in reality, not in marx's theoretical "no government" way that can't actually exist. --- Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:905775420] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote>still don't get how i was using the word communism in the wrong way, though. i'm just using it in the way it actually was/is in reality, not in marx's theoretical "no government" way that can't actually exist.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0r0n 07/26/18 7:34:47 PM #57:	The point is all these words obviously have many different contexts and semantics you can use them with so you turning everything into this dumbass semantics argument every single time is a total waste of time. You can't righteously argue that we're using the words wrong when you yourself use the words for their unofficial colloquial meanings. Just argue the actual concepts for once --- _foolmo_ 2 + 2 = 4 <cite>foolm0r0n posted [p:905775581] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote>The point is all these words obviously have many different contexts and semantics you can use them with so you turning everything into this dumbass semantics argument every single time is a total waste of time. You can't righteously argue that we're using the words wrong when you yourself use the words for their unofficial colloquial meanings. Just argue the actual concepts for once</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kenri 07/26/18 7:47:53 PM #58:	foolm0r0n posted... That's the whole point. If your society requires sanctioned killing to work, then it will always end up with the elite killing the weak. If you look at capital as power beyond just monetary capital, this always ends up with the capitalists on top. This is where "communism can't work" comes from. the killings must be unsanctioned, got it --- Congrats to BKSheikah, who knows more about years than anyone else. <cite>Kenri posted [p:905776200] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote><cite>foolm0r0n posted...</cite> <quote>That's the whole point. If your society requires sanctioned killing to work, then it will always end up with the elite killing the weak. If you look at capital as power beyond just monetary capital, this always ends up with the capitalists on top. This is where "communism can't work" comes from.</quote> the killings must be unsanctioned, got it</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 07/26/18 7:53:22 PM #59:	foolm0r0n posted... The point is all these words obviously have many different contexts and semantics you can use them with so you turning everything into this dumbass semantics argument every single time is a total waste of time. uh, you started this by complaining that i regularly use words in completely wrong ways. if you don't want to argue semantics you should discuss what i'm saying, not attack the way i word things. You can't righteously argue that we're using the words wrong when you yourself use the words for their unofficial colloquial meanings. sure i can. a word may have different meanings but that doesn't mean it can mean anything and you can't possibly use the word in a way that's wrong. just because i use a word in one of several ways you can use it doesn't mean i can't attack people who use the word completely incorrectly. also, i think it's ridiculous to claim that the way i use the word communism is the "unofficial" way. there's literally nobody in the world besides you who would argue that stalin wasn't a communist because "MARX NEVER SAID THERE SHOULD BE A GOVERNMENT." like i said before, language evolves and we're not in 1848 anymore. you're acting like a hipster who's arguing that paramore is "not really emo" because their music doesn't sound like rites of spring. Just argue the actual concepts for once i am arguing the concepts. i attacked muffin for his ridiculous stance that ocasio-cortez is in favor of governmental bakeries and food rationing. that wasn't an attack on his wording. --- Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:905776455] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote><cite>foolm0r0n posted...</cite> <quote>The point is all these words obviously have many different contexts and semantics you can use them with so you turning everything into this dumbass semantics argument every single time is a total waste of time.</quote> uh, you started this by complaining that i regularly use words in completely wrong ways. if you don't want to argue semantics you should discuss what i'm saying, not attack the way i word things. <quote>You can't righteously argue that we're using the words wrong when you yourself use the words for their unofficial colloquial meanings.</quote> sure i can. a word may have different meanings but that doesn't mean it can mean anything and you can't possibly use the word in a way that's wrong. just because i use a word in one of several ways you can use it doesn't mean i can't attack people who use the word completely incorrectly. also, i think it's ridiculous to claim that the way i use the word communism is the "unofficial" way. there's literally nobody in the world besides you who would argue that stalin wasn't a communist because "MARX NEVER SAID THERE SHOULD BE A GOVERNMENT." like i said before, language evolves and we're not in 1848 anymore. you're acting like a hipster who's arguing that paramore is "not really emo" because their music doesn't sound like rites of spring. <quote>Just argue the actual concepts for once</quote> i am arguing the concepts. i attacked muffin for his ridiculous stance that ocasio-cortez is in favor of governmental bakeries and food rationing. that wasn't an attack on his wording.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0r0n 07/26/18 8:06:50 PM #60:	Kenri posted... the killings must be unsanctioned, got it Pretty much That is literally the unique characteristic of a government --- _foolmo_ 2 + 2 = 4 <cite>foolm0r0n posted [p:905777068] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote><cite>Kenri posted...</cite> <quote>the killings must be unsanctioned, got it</quote> Pretty much That is literally the unique characteristic of a government</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0r0n 07/26/18 8:10:14 PM #61:	Mr Lasastryke posted... uh, you started this by complaining that i regularly use words in completely wrong ways. if you don't want to argue semantics you should discuss what i'm saying, not attack the way i word things. It's wrong if you're intentionally ignoring the context of the current discussion when using words. You're confusing things for no reason. That's what's annoying. Like I'm totally fine with calling Stalin a communist. We all know what is meant when we say that. But like Kenri mentioned, it's also technically wrong. But that doesn't really matter as long as we all have the same understanding. And in the same way, I'm fine with using socialist to mean the definition that I posted before, and you should be too. Also there's like a 90% chance Ocasio-Cortez will come out explicitly in favor of state bakeries so be careful with that position... --- _foolmo_ 2 + 2 = 4 <cite>foolm0r0n posted [p:905777220] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote><cite>Mr Lasastryke posted...</cite> <quote>uh, you started this by complaining that i regularly use words in completely wrong ways. if you don't want to argue semantics you should discuss what i'm saying, not attack the way i word things.</quote> It's wrong if you're intentionally ignoring the context of the current discussion when using words. You're confusing things for no reason. That's what's annoying. Like I'm totally fine with calling Stalin a communist. We all know what is meant when we say that. But like Kenri mentioned, it's also technically wrong. But that doesn't really matter as long as we all have the same understanding. And in the same way, I'm fine with using socialist to mean the definition that I posted before, and you should be too. Also there's like a 90% chance Ocasio-Cortez will come out explicitly in favor of state bakeries so be careful with that position...</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 07/26/18 8:14:31 PM #62:	foolm0r0n posted... Also there's like a 90% chance Ocasio-Cortez will come out explicitly in favor of state bakeries so be careful with that position... i'll literally let a guy who hates me (there's plenty of candidates!) kick me in the balls, record a video of it and post it here if that happens. GMUN archives all the topics so you can hold me to this. --- Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:905777406] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote><cite>foolm0r0n posted...</cite> <quote>Also there's like a 90% chance Ocasio-Cortez will come out explicitly in favor of state bakeries so be careful with that position...</quote> i'll literally let a guy who hates me (there's plenty of candidates!) kick me in the balls, record a video of it and post it here if that happens. GMUN archives all the topics so you can hold me to this.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 07/26/18 8:15:32 PM #63:	Also there's like a 90% chance Ocasio-Cortez will come out explicitly in favor of state bakeries so be careful with that position... I disagree with this, but only because we won't get close enough to that point for her to want to reveal that. She WOULD do that, if that was the next step towards full socialism. But we won't get that close. --- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - https://imgur.com/W66HUUy http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:905777444] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote><quote>Also there's like a 90% chance Ocasio-Cortez will come out explicitly in favor of state bakeries so be careful with that position...</quote> I disagree with this, but only because we won't get close enough to that point for her to want to reveal that. She WOULD do that, if that was the next step towards full socialism. But we won't get that close.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HotDogButts 07/26/18 8:21:31 PM #64:	idk Bernie already came out in favor of bread lines --- Burns then confronted him about the fart and Willie became agitated, telling her to shut up <cite>HotDogButts posted [p:905777744] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote>idk Bernie already came out in favor of bread lines</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 07/26/18 8:28:03 PM #65:	HotDogButts posted... idk Bernie already came out in favor of bread lines bernie literally SAID he supported communism back in the day, though. i feel like a lot of old people who self-identify as socialists now used to be diehard communists. but i'm very much convinced ocasio-cortez is a socialist who wants nothing to do with communism (or bread lines). --- Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:905778068] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote><cite>HotDogButts posted...</cite> <quote>idk Bernie already came out in favor of bread lines</quote> bernie literally SAID he supported communism back in the day, though. i feel like a lot of old people who self-identify as socialists now used to be diehard communists. but i'm very much convinced ocasio-cortez is a socialist who wants nothing to do with communism (or bread lines).</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0r0n 07/26/18 8:32:51 PM #66:	I mean it's not a big step to take. Low skill jobs pay too little so we need state bakeries (shops in general) that have a living wage and hiring quotas. It wouldn't be surprising for her to advocate that. The biggest roadblock is that Starbucks is one of the biggest bakeries in the country and they pay pretty well, so it wouldn't be a super popular policy. Same with Walmart and such. Maybe state indie game dev studios? --- _foolmo_ 2 + 2 = 4 <cite>foolm0r0n posted [p:905778309] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote>I mean it's not a big step to take. Low skill jobs pay too little so we need state bakeries (shops in general) that have a living wage and hiring quotas. It wouldn't be surprising for her to advocate that. The biggest roadblock is that Starbucks is one of the biggest bakeries in the country and they pay pretty well, so it wouldn't be a super popular policy. Same with Walmart and such. Maybe state indie game dev studios?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 07/26/18 8:35:43 PM #67:	yeah, if she's using that logic i'd sooner expect her to go after fast food places or whatever than bakeries. even then i don't see her saying something like that, though. --- Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:905778447] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote>yeah, if she's using that logic i'd sooner expect her to go after fast food places or whatever than bakeries. even then i don't see her saying something like that, though.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0r0n 07/26/18 8:42:50 PM #68:	https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/07/25/upshot/precinct-map-highlights.html Much better viz of voting patterns. It shows areas that are really a bubble vs ones that are pretty mixed but still turned out one-sided when you look at counties only. --- _foolmo_ 2 + 2 = 4 <cite>foolm0r0n posted [p:905778814] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote>https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/07/25/upshot/precinct-map-highlights.html Much better viz of voting patterns. It shows areas that are really a bubble vs ones that are pretty mixed but still turned out one-sided when you look at counties only.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kenri 07/26/18 8:47:40 PM #69:	foolm0r0n posted... Kenri posted... the killings must be unsanctioned, got it Pretty much That is literally the unique characteristic of a government I dunno, there are lots of groups that sanction killings that most people wouldn't really consider governments. --- Congrats to BKSheikah, who knows more about years than anyone else. <cite>Kenri posted [p:905779047] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote><cite>foolm0r0n posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Kenri posted...</cite> <quote>the killings must be unsanctioned, got it</quote> Pretty much That is literally the unique characteristic of a government</quote> I dunno, there are lots of groups that sanction killings that most people wouldn't really consider governments.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0r0n 07/26/18 8:52:47 PM #70:	Well that's where wars come from, disagreements about sovereignty Doesn't matter much to me, I'm cool with taking all of them down --- _foolmo_ 2 + 2 = 4 <cite>foolm0r0n posted [p:905779309] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote>Well that's where wars come from, disagreements about sovereignty Doesn't matter much to me, I'm cool with taking all of them down</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 07/26/18 9:00:55 PM #71:	bernie literally SAID he supported communism back in the day, though Right, because back in the day, that was a more politically tenable position, because people believed communism was legit about to take over the world. These people are frauds and liars. Like, professionally. --- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - https://imgur.com/W66HUUy http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:905779693] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote><quote>bernie literally SAID he supported communism back in the day, though</quote> Right, because back in the day, that was a more politically tenable position, because people believed communism was legit about to take over the world. These people are frauds and liars. Like, professionally.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 07/26/18 9:06:31 PM #72:	well, all politicians are liars to a certain extent ~~(except ron paul)~~. you just don't seem to give a crap when trump (one of the biggest liars of them all) lies, though. --- Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:905779948] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote>well, all politicians are liars to a certain extent (except ron paul). you just don't seem to give a crap when trump (one of the biggest liars of them all) lies, though.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kenri 07/26/18 9:11:20 PM #73:	SmartMuffin posted... Right, because back in the day, that was a more politically tenable position, because people believed communism was legit about to take over the world. this is an interesting take on US history (unless by "back in the day" you mean like the 1910s -- how old is Bernie, again?) --- Congrats to BKSheikah, who knows more about years than anyone else. <cite>Kenri posted [p:905780195] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote><cite>SmartMuffin posted...</cite> <quote>Right, because back in the day, that was a more politically tenable position, because people believed communism was legit about to take over the world.</quote> this is an interesting take on US history (unless by "back in the day" you mean like the 1910s -- how old is Bernie, again?)</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 07/26/18 9:18:57 PM #74:	this is an interesting take on US history (unless by "back in the day" you mean like the 1910s -- how old is Bernie, again?) Nah, even as late as the 70s people believed this. --- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - https://imgur.com/W66HUUy http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:905780576] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote><quote>this is an interesting take on US history (unless by "back in the day" you mean like the 1910s -- how old is Bernie, again?)</quote> Nah, even as late as the 70s people believed this.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0r0n 07/26/18 9:37:57 PM #75:	Mr Lasastryke posted... well, all politicians are liars to a certain extent To their entire extent RP wasn't a liar because he was more of a teacher than a politician... even he was a liar when he tried to do political stuff (like the Romney endorsements and such) --- _foolmo_ 2 + 2 = 4 <cite>foolm0r0n posted [p:905781532] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote><cite>Mr Lasastryke posted...</cite> <quote>well, all politicians are liars to a certain extent </quote> To their entire extent RP wasn't a liar because he was more of a teacher than a politician... even he was a liar when he tried to do political stuff (like the Romney endorsements and such)</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0r0n 07/26/18 9:38:45 PM #76:	SmartMuffin posted... Nah, even as late as the 70s people believed this. How about 2018? Or are we not counting Vlado as "people"? I'm fine with that tbh, just making sure --- _foolmo_ 2 + 2 = 4 <cite>foolm0r0n posted [p:905781567] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote><cite>SmartMuffin posted...</cite> <quote>Nah, even as late as the 70s people believed this.</quote> How about 2018? Or are we not counting Vlado as "people"? I'm fine with that tbh, just making sure</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 07/26/18 10:04:40 PM #77:	Yeah Ron Paul was horrible as a politician. He accomplished virtually nothing in terms of legislation or electoral success. --- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - https://imgur.com/W66HUUy http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:905782859] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote>Yeah Ron Paul was horrible as a politician. He accomplished virtually nothing in terms of legislation or electoral success.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 07/27/18 8:44:39 AM #78:	ron paul was great as a politician. he made libertarianism more popular than it ever was and converted tons of people to the movement (including yourself). very few people did as much for libertarianism as he did. of course nowadays libertarianism is going down the drain because 1) gary johnson is leading the libertarian party and 2) tons of "libertarians" are poisoning the libertarian movement by passionately supporting trump (alex jones, tom woods, lew rockwell, lauren southern, kaitlin bennett, you). none of these things are ron paul's fault, though. --- Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:905801535] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote>ron paul was great as a politician. he made libertarianism more popular than it ever was and converted tons of people to the movement (including yourself). very few people did as much for libertarianism as he did. of course nowadays libertarianism is going down the drain because 1) gary johnson is leading the libertarian party and 2) tons of "libertarians" are poisoning the libertarian movement by passionately supporting trump (alex jones, tom woods, lew rockwell, lauren southern, kaitlin bennett, you). none of these things are ron paul's fault, though.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 07/27/18 9:16:42 AM #79:	ron paul was great as a politician. he made libertarianism more popular than it ever was thats not what politicians do --- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - https://imgur.com/W66HUUy http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:905802560] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote><quote>ron paul was great as a politician. he made libertarianism more popular than it ever was</quote> thats not what politicians do</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 07/27/18 9:18:40 AM #80:	https://twitter.com/CuffyMeh/status/1022825344846450689 for the record, they can't NOT do this if they and FB went back to "you see everything from everyone you follow", it would completely and totally destroy their business model --- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - https://imgur.com/W66HUUy http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:905802624] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote>https://twitter.com/CuffyMeh/status/1022825344846450689 for the record, they can't NOT do this if they and FB went back to "you see everything from everyone you follow", it would completely and totally destroy their business model</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 07/27/18 9:23:52 AM #81:	http://www.faithwire.com/2018/07/26/mark-zuckerberg-is-proving-progressivism-doesnt-work/ basically my thesis for shorting people are getting less and less appetite for being micromanaged by elites, whether politicians or techbros so of course, the politicians AND the techbros double down on strategies contingent upon micromanagement... --- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - https://imgur.com/W66HUUy http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:905802806] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote>http://www.faithwire.com/2018/07/26/mark-zuckerberg-is-proving-progressivism-doesnt-work/ basically my thesis for shorting people are getting less and less appetite for being micromanaged by elites, whether politicians or techbros so of course, the politicians AND the techbros double down on strategies contingent upon micromanagement...</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 07/27/18 9:44:43 AM #82:	SmartMuffin posted... thats not what politicians do generally they don't, no. paul was truly exceptional in that regard. --- Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:905803461] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote><cite>SmartMuffin posted...</cite> <quote>thats not what politicians do</quote> generally they don't, no. paul was truly exceptional in that regard.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 07/27/18 9:52:17 AM #83:	SmartMuffin posted... http://www.faithwire.com/2018/07/26/mark-zuckerberg-is-proving-progressivism-doesnt-work/ lol. yeah, "progressivism doesn't work." that's why you've been posting on a super progressive website for the past 18 years. tons of people LOVE being controlled by other people. --- Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:905803739] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote><cite>SmartMuffin posted...</cite> <quote>http://www.faithwire.com/2018/07/26/mark-zuckerberg-is-proving-progressivism-doesnt-work/</quote> lol. yeah, "progressivism doesn't work." that's why you've been posting on a super progressive website for the past 18 years. tons of people LOVE being controlled by other people.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 07/27/18 9:58:35 AM #84:	generally they don't, no. paul was truly exceptional in that regard. Using politics as a platform to teach isn't "being a good politician." It's being a BAD politician, but intentionally so. --- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - https://imgur.com/W66HUUy http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:905803958] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote><quote>generally they don't, no. paul was truly exceptional in that regard.</quote> Using politics as a platform to teach isn't "being a good politician." It's being a BAD politician, but intentionally so.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 07/27/18 10:10:21 AM #85:	SmartMuffin posted... Using politics as a platform to teach isn't "being a good politician." It's being a BAD politician, but intentionally so. oh, that's what you mean. i can agree with that. not sure i agree with your stance that he "was a bad politician because he accomplished nothing in terms of legislation or electoral success," though. pretty sure the best politician imaginble wouldn't have accomplished anything either because relatively speaking almost nobody liked paul's message ("libertarianism is good"). perhaps a great politician would have accomplished more running for the libertarian party than trying to make the GOP libertarian from the inside, but it wouldn't have mattered much. saying stuff people like is FAR more important for becoming successful than being a good politician. this is also my problem with scott adams's claims about trump. i'm not saying he's 100% wrong about trump, but he's severely overestimating how much trump's "master wizard" skills were the reason for him becoming president/severely underestimating how much people just LOVED the shit he was saying (like "build the wall"). --- Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:905804388] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote><cite>SmartMuffin posted...</cite> <quote>Using politics as a platform to teach isn't "being a good politician." It's being a BAD politician, but intentionally so.</quote> oh, that's what you mean. i can agree with that. not sure i agree with your stance that he "was a bad politician because he accomplished nothing in terms of legislation or electoral success," though. pretty sure the best politician imaginble wouldn't have accomplished anything either because relatively speaking almost nobody liked paul's message ("libertarianism is good"). perhaps a great politician would have accomplished more running for the libertarian party than trying to make the GOP libertarian from the inside, but it wouldn't have mattered much. saying stuff people like is FAR more important for becoming successful than being a good politician. this is also my problem with scott adams's claims about trump. i'm not saying he's 100% wrong about trump, but he's severely overestimating how much trump's "master wizard" skills were the reason for him becoming president/severely underestimating how much people just LOVED the shit he was saying (like "build the wall").</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 07/27/18 10:15:35 AM #86:	and if you look at paul in interviews, you'll see that he actually uses a lot of the same tactics other politicians use. in the ron paul seduction scene from brno, brno asks him what he's wearing and he replies "well, it's pretty ordinary but my message is not ordinary." he's clearly trying to steer the interview away from his clothes and to his message about libertarianism. if he were such a terrible politician, he would have replied "oh this is actually my favorite suit it's so nice!" without saying anything about his message. --- Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:905804586] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote>and if you look at paul in interviews, you'll see that he actually uses a lot of the same tactics other politicians use. in the ron paul seduction scene from brno, brno asks him what he's wearing and he replies "well, it's pretty ordinary but my message is not ordinary." he's clearly trying to steer the interview away from his clothes and to his message about libertarianism. if he were such a terrible politician, he would have replied "oh this is actually my favorite suit it's so nice!" without saying anything about his message.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 07/27/18 10:32:47 AM #87:	"Telling people what they want to hear even if it violates your own personal beliefs" is like the #1 requirement of being a good politician. That's why Trump is a good one and RP is a bad one. RP's refusal to compromise his beliefs makes him great as a spokesperson, teacher, whatever. But terrible as a politician. --- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - https://imgur.com/W66HUUy http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:905805240] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote>"Telling people what they want to hear even if it violates your own personal beliefs" is like the #1 requirement of being a good politician. That's why Trump is a good one and RP is a bad one. RP's refusal to compromise his beliefs makes him great as a spokesperson, teacher, whatever. But terrible as a politician.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0r0n 07/27/18 11:51:51 AM #88:	SmartMuffin posted... people are getting less and less appetite for being micromanaged by elites, whether politicians or techbros Not really, they just want a specific kind of micromanagement. It's just like you claiming to want freedom when you really want a specific totalitarianism that you think benefits you. This is why FB and Twitter have lasted so long while MySpace failed quickly. Totalitarianism is branding. It is purpose and lifestyle. That's what people are attracted to. Forging their own path as an individual is way too much work. FB and Twitter are still massive boons to racists, nationalists, etc so their downfall will not be progressivism at all. It will be normal people and businesses who are sick of being surrounded by nazis. --- _foolmo_ 2 + 2 = 4 <cite>foolm0r0n posted [p:905808981] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote><cite>SmartMuffin posted...</cite> <quote>people are getting less and less appetite for being micromanaged by elites, whether politicians or techbros</quote> Not really, they just want a specific kind of micromanagement. It's just like you claiming to want freedom when you really want a specific totalitarianism that you think benefits you. This is why FB and Twitter have lasted so long while MySpace failed quickly. Totalitarianism is branding. It is purpose and lifestyle. That's what people are attracted to. Forging their own path as an individual is way too much work. FB and Twitter are still massive boons to racists, nationalists, etc so their downfall will not be progressivism at all. It will be normal people and businesses who are sick of being surrounded by nazis.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 07/27/18 11:53:23 AM #89:	It will be normal people and businesses who are sick of being surrounded by nazis. This is not an actual thing though. Normal people never chose to follow nazis, so were never aware of their existence. It's the hardcore left who intentionally follow people they hate to try and get them banned, not because they don't want to hear nazis, but because they don't want anyone to be able to hear nazis. --- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - https://imgur.com/W66HUUy http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:905809061] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote><quote>It will be normal people and businesses who are sick of being surrounded by nazis. </quote> This is not an actual thing though. Normal people never chose to follow nazis, so were never aware of their existence. It's the hardcore left who intentionally follow people they hate to try and get them banned, not because they don't want to hear nazis, but because they don't want anyone to be able to hear nazis.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 07/27/18 11:55:44 AM #90:	SmartMuffin posted... Normal people never chose to follow nazis, so were never aware of their existence. lol that's not how facebook works. i never "chose to follow milo," yet i was still forced to look at his stupid face tons of times because facebook kept advertising his page on my facebook for some reason. --- Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:905809168] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote><cite>SmartMuffin posted...</cite> <quote>Normal people never chose to follow nazis, so were never aware of their existence.</quote> lol that's not how facebook works. i never "chose to follow milo," yet i was still forced to look at his stupid face tons of times because facebook kept advertising his page on my facebook for some reason.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 07/27/18 12:02:06 PM #91:	because you chose to follow people adjacent to him and then the FB micromangey algorithm declares you probably like him so it forces a bunch of his content on you whereas, in the old/simple version of FB, they didnt have any of that crap, you just followed who you wanted and got that stuff and that stuff only what people actually want is a version of FB that shows you everything from people you choose to follow, and nothing from people you choose not to the problem is that there's no money in that, but FB has taken the micromanagement way too far and instead of just showing targeted ads, theyre going so far as to block you from seeing things you DO want, because they believe you dont actually want to see the things from the pages where you specifically clicked "I want to see the things from this page." --- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - https://imgur.com/W66HUUy http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:905809489] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote>because you chose to follow people adjacent to him and then the FB micromangey algorithm declares you probably like him so it forces a bunch of his content on you whereas, in the old/simple version of FB, they didnt have any of that crap, you just followed who you wanted and got that stuff and that stuff only what people actually want is a version of FB that shows you everything from people you choose to follow, and nothing from people you choose not to the problem is that there's no money in that, but FB has taken the micromanagement way too far and instead of just showing targeted ads, theyre going so far as to block you from seeing things you DO want, because they believe you dont actually want to see the things from the pages where you specifically clicked "I want to see the things from this page."</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 07/27/18 12:04:45 PM #92:	SmartMuffin posted... because you chose to follow people adjacent to him no i didn't. are frank zappa and ladyhawke "adjacent to milo" now? --- Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:905809634] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote><cite>SmartMuffin posted...</cite> <quote>because you chose to follow people adjacent to him</quote> no i didn't. are frank zappa and ladyhawke "adjacent to milo" now?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 07/27/18 12:05:53 PM #93:	are frank zappa and ladyhawke "adjacent to milo" now? Maybe! I like Zappa and Milo! If there are tons more like me, FB probably thinks they are, yeah. And it could also be that you just talk about him a lot. But the fact remains that you're describing the new micromangey facebook, not the old one where it just gave you what you asked for and no more. --- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - https://imgur.com/W66HUUy http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:905809696] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote><quote>are frank zappa and ladyhawke "adjacent to milo" now?</quote> Maybe! I like Zappa and Milo! If there are tons more like me, FB probably thinks they are, yeah. And it could also be that you just talk about him a lot. But the fact remains that you're describing the new micromangey facebook, not the old one where it just gave you what you asked for and no more.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0r0n 07/27/18 12:07:21 PM #94:	Almost everyone signal boosts people they hate on social media because the most engaging emotion by far on those sites is hate. That's the whole point. If you say hateful fringe crap, you WILL be boosted to all the normal people by the algorithms and their own friends. You can't just use those sites and keep to yourself to avoid propaganda, it is thrust upon you. That's why these sites are so deeply valuable to the propagandists. The only way that can change is if everyone stops engaging with harmful content, but that is never gonna happen. The sites themselves can't fix that even if they wanted, which they don't since everything is working as intended. --- _foolmo_ 2 + 2 = 4 <cite>foolm0r0n posted [p:905809783] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote>Almost everyone signal boosts people they hate on social media because the most engaging emotion by far on those sites is hate. That's the whole point. If you say hateful fringe crap, you WILL be boosted to all the normal people by the algorithms and their own friends. You can't just use those sites and keep to yourself to avoid propaganda, it is thrust upon you. That's why these sites are so deeply valuable to the propagandists. The only way that can change is if everyone stops engaging with harmful content, but that is never gonna happen. The sites themselves can't fix that even if they wanted, which they don't since everything is working as intended.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 07/27/18 1:20:50 PM #95:	SmartMuffin posted... Maybe! I like Zappa and Milo! If there are tons more like me, FB probably thinks they are, yeah. pretty sure people who like both zappa and milo are highly uncommon for a number of reasons. And it could also be that you just talk about him a lot. on here, sure. but i've mentioned milo exactly 0 times on facebook. are the FB advertising people obsessively reading my board 8 posts? --- Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:905813222] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote><cite>SmartMuffin posted...</cite> <quote>Maybe! I like Zappa and Milo! If there are tons more like me, FB probably thinks they are, yeah.</quote> pretty sure people who like both zappa and milo are highly uncommon for a number of reasons. <quote>And it could also be that you just talk about him a lot.</quote> on here, sure. but i've mentioned milo exactly 0 times on facebook. are the FB advertising people obsessively reading my board 8 posts?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kenri 07/27/18 2:12:45 PM #96:	honestly it's probably just a demographic thing since (AFAIK) you're a white politically active man in your 20s or 30s and that's almost certainly 99% of milo's base. --- Congrats to BKSheikah, who knows more about years than anyone else. <cite>Kenri posted [p:905815789] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote>honestly it's probably just a demographic thing since (AFAIK) you're a white politically active man in your 20s or 30s and that's almost certainly 99% of milo's base.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0r0n 07/27/18 3:51:03 PM #97:	It's a thin line between hating Milo and loving Milo Milo went through it himself --- _foolmo_ 2 + 2 = 4 <cite>foolm0r0n posted [p:905821063] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote>It's a thin line between hating Milo and loving Milo Milo went through it himself</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 07/27/18 5:42:40 PM #98:	What can someone once denounced by the MSM as a Nazi do to get published in the New York times? Easy! Criticize Trump! https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/26/opinion/trump-tariffs-farmers-iowa-libertarian.html --- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - https://imgur.com/W66HUUy http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:905826807] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote>What can someone once denounced by the MSM as a Nazi do to get published in the New York times? Easy! Criticize Trump! https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/26/opinion/trump-tariffs-farmers-iowa-libertarian.html</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 07/27/18 6:33:57 PM #99:	wait people said walter block is a nazi? --- Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:905829189] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote>wait people said walter block is a nazi?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0r0n 07/27/18 6:42:30 PM #100:	I thought he was a jew --- _foolmo_ 2 + 2 = 4 <cite>foolm0r0n posted [p:905829612] in Freedom, L... [t:76840756]...</cite> <quote>I thought he was a jew</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Board 8 > Freedom, Liberty, Ron Paul - Iranian War 4.0 Edition [dwmf] (+) Yeah! (+)

Board 8 > Freedom, Liberty, Ron Paul - Iranian War 4.0 Edition [dwmf]