Current Events > i don't like it when people use "drug addict" to devalue people

(+) Yeah! (+)

DocileOrangeCup posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

They probably still are, but there isn't really a cure-all for addiction, sadly. It's not like they see it as wrong and do it because it's fun, it's an addiction and it alters their minds so that they see it as the only logical solution. It's like brainwashing.

they've done unforgivable things and even when sober are fucked up in the head, so i dont really know what to say about that.

I'm not arguing with you. Like the other guy, I don't know the situation. I'm just saying that even when they are sober, it's still there. It's insane to think about. Like, if they ever get clean and sober, they have to live with the shit they have done, which could easily cause a downward spiral and lead to another relapse, and the cycle continues. Can you imagine being trapped in that hell for the rest of your life?

Like, I suffer from some pretty severe depression. Sometimes, it alters my thinking like a little voice in the back of my head that twists how I see things and causes me to do things that just make things worse. I imagine addiction is a lot like that which is just a living hell. That doesn't excuse their behavior, but it at least makes it more understandable.

yes, they are addicted, and its often sad.

yes, its a chemical reliance, and they can't just stop, because they are addicts, and you can feel for them.

but how did they get addicted? a situation being tough does not excuse it, period.if you are forced, that's a different situation. but "life was hard" or "other people were doing it" is not a justification for drug use (or anything). it's a choice, and we shouldn't pity people when they have the freedom to make choices, and then go make bad ones.

we all know there are many people who don't get to make choices, good or bad. Feel bad for them.

shnangyboos posted...

Also, empathy goes both ways. It's not just for you to put yourself in the downtrodden's place. Try to put yourself in the place of someone who dismisses addicts completely, and understand why they're there.

i'm usually more inclined to tend to the sick and dying before the healthy and upset, but this is a good point. still, i always encourage people to look past anger, because it clouds judgement.

DocileOrangeCup posted...

yeah i will agree with you there, that's why i dont like weed because like a dozen people i know started out on that and eventually moved onto harder shit.

for what it's worth, that generally has a lot more to do with the circumstances and culture of weed than the drug itself. when your weed guy also sells cocaine, odds are he's going to try to sell you cocaine eventually. or when you go to a party because you know there's going to be weed there and people are smoking meth, you might find yourself giving it a try in your inebriated state.

these sound hypothetical, but it's the process that's caught millions
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BloodyNate posted...

you might find yourself giving it a try in your inebriated state.

even less reason to sympathize with trash
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Fam_Fam posted...

but how did they get addicted? a situation being tough does not excuse it, period.if you are forced, that's a different situation. but "life was hard" or "other people were doing it" is not a justification for drug use (or anything). it's a choice, and we shouldn't pity people when they have the freedom to make choices, and then go make bad ones.

Like I said, it's hard for people not in those sorts of situations to understand what drives someone to make a choice like that. Mental illness, crime, poverty, a history of abuse, violence, PTSD, becoming addicted through prescribed medications that are later cut off, extreme family issues, extreme life pressure. The list goes on and on, and it might seem like all of it boils down to 'life is hard', but most of us have been given a better chance and can't even imagine how bad life can get, so it's really naive for us to believe that it's always just a simple choice.

And again, there are situations where you are not forced, but still aren't really addicts faults. For example, the OxyContin crisis began because doctors were incentivized to prescribe highly addictive painkillers which warped the users brains and then cut them off, at which point the people were already addicted.

Dash_Harber posted...

I'm not arguing with you. Like the other guy, I don't know the situation. I'm just saying that even when they are sober, it's still there. It's insane to think about. Like, if they ever get clean and sober, they have to live with the shit they have done, which could easily cause a downward spiral and lead to another relapse, and the cycle continues. Can you imagine being trapped in that hell for the rest of your life?

Like, I suffer from some pretty severe depression. Sometimes, it alters my thinking like a little voice in the back of my head that twists how I see things and causes me to do things that just make things worse. I imagine addiction is a lot like that which is just a living hell. That doesn't excuse their behavior, but it at least makes it more understandable.

here's a good metaphor

yesterday, i got my heart broken by a girl. love is a chemical addiction. i'm going through withdrawals right now, and even during the relationship whenever i got insecure, i could not distract myself from her, regardless of what i was doing, and would suffer some form of withdrawals at that point it time. it literally hurts my stomach.

this is just a chemical already in my brain. imagine that there's a chemical not in my body that i can only get from a substance, and that my brain learns to rely on for one reason or another. when i don't have it, i'm going to feel like i'm going to die and not be able to think of absolutely anything else. it's worse than being in love with someone who doesn't love you back. it's literally killing you -- people have fevers, nausea, weakened immune systems, and worse.

Fam_Fam posted...

yes, they are addicted, and its often sad.

yes, its a chemical reliance, and they can't just stop, because they are addicts, and you can feel for them.

but how did they get addicted? a situation being tough does not excuse it, period.if you are forced, that's a different situation. but "life was hard" or "other people were doing it" is not a justification for drug use (or anything). it's a choice, and we shouldn't pity people when they have the freedom to make choices, and then go make bad ones.

we all know there are many people who don't get to make choices, good or bad. Feel bad for them.

i encourage you to have empathy for people even when they make bad choices, in any respect. but i also encourage you to understand that there's more nuance to everything than good and bad.
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BloodyNate posted...

what do you mean by "stay the course?" do you mean they keep falling into their addictions? most people don't realize they're addicted until it's too late. hell, how many times have you thought "i'll make sure to get off CE by 10pm" only to find it's 2:57am and you're debating the finer points of addiction? we all let ourselves fall in to something thinking we won't, it's just that the most vulnerable fall into the worst things.

in addition, it's a very privileged thing to say that "the information is there." most people who become addicted are either never exposed to that information, or have that information countered with false information at the wrong time. how many times has someone told you not to mix liquors because it'll fuck you up? it's bullshit, but that time you were at your first party and fucking Fratboy Garrett said that, you made sure to stick to just tequila for the night, and you still got fucked up anyway.

OR how many times have you tried something where someone said "you'll get hurt" and you thought "nah, not me." that's literally a neurological fact about being young -- you think you're always going to be the exemption, even when all of the evidence says otherwise. we are physically unable to properly register consequence until our brains are fully formed, and addiction nearly always takes place prior to that.

it's all so much more nuanced than "they made a bad choice," and to say otherwise is reductive and damaging and literally killing people.

I mean, I've already stated the kind of person that I am. The answer to those things is never for me, by and large. I'm not an impulsive person and, even in my reckless teenage years, preferred weighing things in my head. I generally knew what I was capable of doing and not.

In the area I was in growing up I was offered drugs or drink on a nigh daily basis, and still managed to never do them with minimal outside help as I wasn't religious, and my parents just gave me the typical drugs are bad speech. But I've also been told I'm a little bit of a control freak, as I hate having my perception altered.

As for why I'm doing this, my day is already well under way. Already slept and woke up and done most of my daily activities, so this is wind down time for me and a topic I'm familiar with.

In the age of the internet all of this information is readily available to most anyone, save those that don't want to look. Most of those that wouldn't also tend to prefer going in to things uneducated, so it still boils down to choice in my books.

R_Jackal posted...

I mean, I've already stated the kind of person that I am. The answer to those things is never for me, by and large. I'm not an impulsive person and, even in my reckless teenage years, preferred weighing things in my head. I generally knew what I was capable of doing and not.

In the area I was in growing up I was offered drugs or drink on a nigh daily basis, and still managed to never do them with minimal outside help as I wasn't religious, and my parents just gave me the typical drugs are bad speech. But I've also been told I'm a little bit of a control freak, as I hate having my perception altered.

As for why I'm doing this, my day is already well under way. Already slept and woke up and done most of my daily activities, so this is wind down time for me and a topic I'm familiar with.

In the age of the internet all of this information is readily available to most anyone, save those that don't want to look. Most of those that wouldn't also tend to prefer going in to things uneducated, do it still boils down to choice in my books.

again, you're assuming that other people are like you and have the same opportunities and resources or even parents as you. that's simply not the case.

https://www.recode.net/2017/6/20/15839626/disparity-between-urban-rural-internet-access-major-economies

millions of people still don't have access to the internet. millions more drop out of school and never learn drug safety. many others are told the drug safety they learned is false by somebody they trust. there are as many reasons why somebody would not understand the dangers of what they're getting into, and you're painting over that in broad strokes because that's not what your life was. i'm incredibly happy that you never tried these drugs, but don't you dare think for a moment that you're better than those whose circumstances were different, because you're not. you're just different.

also, i was more referring to myself when i was talking about being on CE at 3 am, because i should definitely be asleep right now
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BloodyNate posted...

again, you're assuming that other people are like you and have the same opportunities and resources or even parents as you. that's simply not the case.

https://www.recode.net/2017/6/20/15839626/disparity-between-urban-rural-internet-access-major-economies

millions of people still don't have access to the internet. millions more drop out of school and never learn drug safety. many others are told the drug safety they learned is false by somebody they trust. there are as many reasons why somebody would not understand the dangers of what they're getting into, and you're painting over that in broad strokes because that's not what your life was. i'm incredibly happy that you never tried these drugs, but don't you dare think for a moment that you're better than those whose circumstances were different, because you're not. you're just different.

also, i was more referring to myself when i was talking about being on CE at 3 am, because i should definitely be asleep right now

Having lived rurally I know for a fact that if you can receive even awful quality satellite TV, you have access to Internet by and large. Funds are another issue, mind, and I've views on that but that's a whole different topic.

There is legitimately always a means to educate yourself. Trusting people is not something someone should ever do on whimsy with any decision pertaining to their life in my books, do it's still all on personal accountability. You only have one life, just accepting the views of those around you and not forming your own is completely unacceptable in my books.

R_Jackal posted...

Having lived rurally I know for a fact that if you can receive even awful quality satellite TV, you have access to Internet by and large. Funds are another issue, mind, and I've views on that but that's a whole different topic.

There is legitimately always a means to educate yourself. Trusting people is not something someone should ever do on whimsy with any decision pertaining to their life in my books, do it's still all on personal accountability. You only have one life, just accepting the views of those around you and not forming your own is completely unacceptable in my books.

i'm glad you view things that way. somewhere along the line you learned that. not everyone had that opportunity.

you're still seeing things narrowly. i've no reason to continue this conversation.
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Dash_Harber posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

but how did they get addicted? a situation being tough does not excuse it, period.if you are forced, that's a different situation. but "life was hard" or "other people were doing it" is not a justification for drug use (or anything). it's a choice, and we shouldn't pity people when they have the freedom to make choices, and then go make bad ones.

Like I said, it's hard for people not in those sorts of situations to understand what drives someone to make a choice like that. Mental illness, crime, poverty, a history of abuse, violence, PTSD, becoming addicted through prescribed medications that are later cut off, extreme family issues, extreme life pressure. The list goes on and on, and it might seem like all of it boils down to 'life is hard', but most of us have been given a better chance and can't even imagine how bad life can get, so it's really naive for us to believe that it's always just a simple choice.

And again, there are situations where you are not forced, but still aren't really addicts faults. For example, the OxyContin crisis began because doctors were incentivized to prescribe highly addictive painkillers which warped the users brains and then cut them off, at which point the people were already addicted.

i never said it was simple, but its still a bad choice that was preventable, and could be stopped at a few points before it was too late

They should be dehumanized
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druggies should be afforded exactly one chance to get clean through government and taxpayer-funded programs and services. if someone really wants to sober up, there should be a system and a safety net for them, but the people who either disregard or abuse those systems should be discarded and treated as human refuse

the one thing i cannot fucking stand are addicts that think that they're not hurting anyone but themselves, without realizing that they're a fucking blight on society simply by existing

scum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZVWIELHQQY" data-time="

I feel like Craig Ferguson, a recovering alcoholic, describes it perfectly in that your never cured. Your just x amount of days sober. But it's a fight to stay that way pretty much for the rest of your life.

It's something that takes a lot of effort that only those who understand some sort of dependence will "get." It's hard. But you can only help those who want to get help.
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BloodyNate posted...

its a disease, bruh. we shouldnt be writing these people off, they need support and assistance, not alienation.

Well, for starters, addicts aren't functional people so noting an addiction conveys an impaired ability to function. As for the disease side, it's one of the few diseases which people voluntarily partake in. While we can feel sorry for people addicted to stuff like crystal meth and want them to get the help they need, the reality is that the vast majority of posters here haven't chosen to try the stuff ourselves. When you can easily avoid a disease by not doing something in the first place, it's a bit harder to feel sorry for somebody with the disease. And, I should note, that there are a *lot* of other more prevalent diseases that society scorns, some of which involve "choice" (obesity) and others that come from the consequence of a choice (STDs among others)

If anything, you should be promoting the further restriction of addictive substances including tobacco and alcohol to help prevent addiction in the first place.
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Zeus posted...

BloodyNate posted...

its a disease, bruh. we shouldnt be writing these people off, they need support and assistance, not alienation.

Well, for starters, addicts aren't functional people so noting an addiction conveys an impaired ability to function. As for the disease side, it's one of the few diseases which people voluntarily partake in. While we can feel sorry for people addicted to stuff like crystal meth and want them to get the help they need, the reality is that the vast majority of posters here haven't chosen to try the stuff ourselves. When you can easily avoid a disease by not doing something in the first place, it's a bit harder to feel sorry for somebody with the disease. And, I should note, that there are a *lot* of other more prevalent diseases that society scorns, some of which involve "choice" (obesity) and others that come from the consequence of a choice (STDs among others)

If anything, you should be promoting the further restriction of addictive substances including tobacco and alcohol to help prevent addiction in the first place.

Complete ignorance. 90%+ of people have drank alcohol. And you're going to go around spouting, "well you didn't have to have that first drink!"

In today's society, partaking in addictive substances is hardly avoidable.
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I meet a lot of drug addicts thru work. I agree with TCs statement. Are some scumbags, assholes, and criminals? Absolutely. But far far less than you would think.
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but how am i supposed to feel good about if i don't get to belittle people???

it just... doesn't make sense to my human (i dont like it)
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ChainedRedone posted...

partaking in addictive substances is hardly avoidable.

lmfao for sheep maybe
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ChainedRedone posted...

Zeus posted...

BloodyNate posted...

its a disease, bruh. we shouldnt be writing these people off, they need support and assistance, not alienation.

Well, for starters, addicts aren't functional people so noting an addiction conveys an impaired ability to function. As for the disease side, it's one of the few diseases which people voluntarily partake in. While we can feel sorry for people addicted to stuff like crystal meth and want them to get the help they need, the reality is that the vast majority of posters here haven't chosen to try the stuff ourselves. When you can easily avoid a disease by not doing something in the first place, it's a bit harder to feel sorry for somebody with the disease. And, I should note, that there are a *lot* of other more prevalent diseases that society scorns, some of which involve "choice" (obesity) and others that come from the consequence of a choice (STDs among others)

If anything, you should be promoting the further restriction of addictive substances including tobacco and alcohol to help prevent addiction in the first place.

Complete ignorance. 90%+ of people have drank alcohol. And you're going to go around spouting, "well you didn't have to have that first drink!"

In today's society, partaking in addictive substances is hardly avoidable.

lolwut? It's COMPLETELY avoidable. All you have to do is not consume it. And again, some substances -- like alcohol -- could be *more* avoidable with greater government intervention. Otherwise, how many times have you tried crystal meth? How often have you had crack? Because clearly you've managed to avoid some of these things, so your "It's impossible to avoid them!" argument falls flat.

ChainedRedone posted...

Complete ignorance. 90%+ of people have drank alcohol.

Complete ignorance is making up a glaringly false statistic.
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It's not like you take one hit out of curiosity and you're addicted forever. These people kept going back to it because they have no impulse control and they don't value themselves.

I feel like talking about this on CE of all places is a fool's errand. You've already got a big group of people that are desperate for ANYTHING to feel superior about some other group of people as it is.
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The only drugs worth doing are nonaddictive.

BloodyNate posted...

a world where someone has to suffer socially, physically, mentally, emotionally, financially, for one bad choice often made in a weakened state is not a world im okay with

Hitting a meth pipe once = one bad choice.

Nobody gets addicted off of one hit. This is disingenuous as fuck.

RoboLaserGandhi posted...

It's not like you take one hit out of curiosity and you're addicted forever. These people kept going back to it because they have no impulse control and they don't value themselves.

druggies have no value lol

fuck em
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