Poll of the Day > What are your top 3 GameCube games and why?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Wind Waker
Smash Melee
Metroid Prime

Sahuagin posted...

lol. it's unique and exquisitely artistic, it's not a gimmick.

It's also a gimmick.

Sahuagin posted...

that MP is an "FPS" (which it is only in a strict and meaningless sense) is completely irrelevant to what's good about it.

Gimmick doesn't mean bad. However, the fact that they were taking an established franchise and using a completely different spin to drum up interest is very gimmicky.

Sahuagin posted...

even taking the term literally, a "rehash" is not simply another version of something, it's an unnecessary version of something. melee VS SSB1 is not a rehash, it's too different, they play nothing alike. Brawl on the other hand is basically the same as melee but worse.

So basically your criteria is nothing more than "if I liked it, it's not a rehash; if I don't like it, it is"? >_> And, more importantly, not only are most sequels unnecessary (only real exception is something that continues the story after a cliffhanger), but no game is technically necessary.

Sahuagin posted...

regardless, what I'm really complaining about is not second versions of franchises, but rather having a lineup that consists almost exclusively of 4th-10th versions of franchises. (a rebuttal to this point could be that I will nevertheless happily play TES 6, Doom 5, etc.etc. the thing though is that on PC I have so much selection that I do get my favorite franchises returning for the umpteenth time, but I also get an endless stream of new and original concepts as well.)

But if you're arguing from a perceived quality standpoint (a la Melee), the number of other games is irrelevant =p

And, of course, there are older franchises coming back with newer (or even gimmicky) concepts. One of the 3DS's coolest titles was Kid Icarus Uprising, a cash-in on renewed KI interest after Brawl that pretty much offered everything (long campaign, time-running, multiplayer co-op and FFA pvp, a comprehensive weapon upgrades system, etc). The problem with KIU, though, is that it DIDN'T get a sequel.

Sahuagin posted...

I bought my PC something like 7 years ago and have upgraded the video card once for about $200-300.

Funny thing, 7 years after I bought my DS, I upgraded to a 3DS for $130 =p
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Sahuagin posted...

sad thing is, that's almost all the games on the whole system that are worth playing...

This is so wrong I don't even know how to respond to it.

If you seriously think that's all that's worth playing on the GC, you missed out on some gems.
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darkknight109 posted...

This is so wrong I don't even know how to respond to it.

If you seriously think that's all that's worth playing on the GC, you missed out on some gems.

if I'm wrong, tell me what those "gems" are so I can play them if given the opportunity
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Zeus posted...

Gimmick doesn't mean bad. However, the fact that they were taking an established franchise and using a completely different spin to drum up interest is very gimmicky.

a gimmick is a feature used to sell something that isn't as interesting as it seems. it's a hype generating feature. MP happens to be first person, but that's not its selling point (or wasn't for me), it's just incidental, but even if it is a selling point, it's still not extraneous to the whole package, it works well with it and creates a genuinely unique experience. to call the first-person-ness of MP a gimmick means that you think it adds no value to the game, but to me it does. (if you're arguing that you feel the first-person-ness is simply tacked-on and does not add value to the game, and that it should have been third-person or something, fair enough. I don't consider it a vital feature, it's just the way the game is.)

Zeus posted...

So basically your criteria is nothing more than "if I liked it, it's not a rehash; if I don't like it, it is"?

Melee built on SSB mechanically, and not just a little, but significantly. Brawl didn't build on Melee mechanically at all, it regressed mechanically.

Zeus posted...

more importantly, not only are most sequels unnecessary (only real exception is something that continues the story after a cliffhanger), but no game is technically necessary.

so... then every game is a rehash? because it's a rehash of the "video game" concept? you're arguing the concept into meaninglessness.

again, the problem is that all nintendo is at this point is a sequel generating machine (not that sequels are bad, but that that's almost all they are; the PotD shouldn't be "which existing nintendo franchise would you like to see yet another sequel to", it should be something like "which previously unvisited gaming genre(s) would you like nintendo to explore next?"). they have little to no software innovation. for some reason they struggle to be hardware innovative when they should be trying to be software innovative. as I said before, they need to halve their hardware development and triple their software development.
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Sahuagin posted...

darkknight109 posted...

This is so wrong I don't even know how to respond to it.

If you seriously think that's all that's worth playing on the GC, you missed out on some gems.

if I'm wrong, tell me what those "gems" are so I can play them if given the opportunity

There are many mentioned throughout this topic. You need only open your eyes and look. If you don't like what you see, then you only have your own limited tastes to blame for that.

I'll add a couple more that can at least be considered a "gem" though:

LEGO Star Wars II
Metal Arms: Glitch in the System
The Incredible Hulk: Ultimate Destruction
The Simpsons: Hit & Run
Ultimate Spider-Man
Viewtiful Joe 1 & 2
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Sahuagin posted...

darkknight109 posted...

This is so wrong I don't even know how to respond to it.

If you seriously think that's all that's worth playing on the GC, you missed out on some gems.

if I'm wrong, tell me what those "gems" are so I can play them if given the opportunity

Off the top of my head, there's:

Phantasy Star Online: Episodes I and II
Rogue Squadron II: Rogue Leader
Both of the Baten Kaitos games
Ikaruga
Both of the Sonic Adventure games if you missed them on other platforms
Pikmin
Sonic Riders
Tales of Symphonia
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Pikmin and Viewtiful Joe are games that I can see are obviously good, but that I don't really enjoy playing. the others listed are either way outside my style of game or not a game I've ever had the opportunity to play.
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Resident Evil 4 - Had lots of fun playing it, it was probably the GC game I beat the most
Wind Waker - The exploring the ocean was fun, and seeing the islands. Its combat was a great improvement from the N64 games
Tales of Symphonia - Just a fun RPG, kinda wish there was a DS rerelease
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darkknight109 posted...

Sahuagin posted...

sad thing is, that's almost all the games on the whole system that are worth playing...

This is so wrong I don't even know how to respond to it.

If you seriously think that's all that's worth playing on the GC, you missed out on some gems.

tbh, between his original remark and the response, I think he's just taking the piss.

Sahuagin posted...

a gimmick is a feature used to sell something that isn't as interesting as it seems. it's a hype generating feature. MP happens to be first person, but that's not its selling point (or wasn't for me), it's just incidental, but even if it is a selling point, it's still not extraneous to the whole package, it works well with it and creates a genuinely unique experience. to call the first-person-ness of MP a gimmick means that you think it adds no value to the game, but to me it does. (if you're arguing that you feel the first-person-ness is simply tacked-on and does not add value to the game, and that it should have been third-person or something, fair enough. I don't consider it a vital feature, it's just the way the game is.)

...that was the selling point that got most people interested. Whether or not the gimmick was the thing you focused on doesn't change that it's a gimmick. Even if you liked the Wii for something other than its motion controls, that doesn't change that the motion controls were a primary selling point.

Sahuagin posted...

Melee built on SSB mechanically, and not just a little, but significantly. Brawl didn't build on Melee mechanically at all, it regressed mechanically.

Which, among other things, is a stupid, silly argument that basically amounts to: "I liked SSBM's mechanics better."

Sahuagin posted...

so... then every game is a rehash? because it's a rehash of the "video game" concept? you're arguing the concept into meaninglessness.

Clearly not, the argument is that nearly every sequel is a rehash.

Sahuagin posted...

again, the problem is that all nintendo is at this point is a sequel generating machine (not that sequels are bad, but that that's almost all they are; the PotD shouldn't be "which existing nintendo franchise would you like to see yet another sequel to", it should be something like "which previously unvisited gaming genre(s) would you like nintendo to explore next?"). they have little to no software innovation. for some reason they struggle to be hardware innovative when they should be trying to be software innovative. as I said before, they need to halve their hardware development and triple their software development.

All of which are stupid arguments. Sequels sell because they're popular. Contrary to your angsty indie argument, most companies would *kill* for a series they could successfully sequel and, for the most part, game series only end because they stop being unprofitable. And the issue isn't what they're doing first-party, but instead more a lack of outstanding THIRD-party support which is where Sony & Microsoft -- both of whom also heavily produce sequels when they can -- have generally benefited. It's especially egregious since, when third-party has a hit on a Nintendo console (Resident Evil: Revelations), not only does it get ported to the non-Nintendo systems but those systems are the ones to get the sequel.

As for hardware innovation, it's a counter to being sucked into the graphics race --- a race to the bottom where dev costs incessantly balloon while providing little to no additional value. And, I should mention, the other consoles have copied Nintendo's hardware innovation. Sony went from calling the analog stick a gimmick to using it on every system since. And, of course, the PS Move and Kinect were created to capitalize on the Wii's success.
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Sahuagin posted...

it should be something like "which previously unvisited gaming genre(s) would you like nintendo to explore next?"

Eroge.

Questionmarktarius posted...

Sahuagin posted...

it should be something like "which previously unvisited gaming genre(s) would you like nintendo to explore next?"

Eroge.

A titillating idea.
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Melee, Double Dash, Tales of Symphonia, RE4, Soul Calibur 2.
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Lobomoon posted...

thekingoftown posted...

Zeus posted...

VixYW posted...

Zelda Wind Waker, for being the best Zelda game of all times;

Don't post that likeness here, this is a safe space

Better than BotW?

You are fake news!

Lobomoon posted...

Damn it. Forgot about that. How do I delete this topic?

you are 3 miles into the marathon Lobomoon. >:)
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Zeus posted...

...that was the selling point that got most people interested. Whether or not the gimmick was the thing you focused on doesn't change that it's a gimmick. Even if you liked the Wii for something other than its motion controls, that doesn't change that the motion controls were a primary selling point.

motion controls are a gimmick; they sound great in principle, and are good in the right context (Wii Sports) but don't actually work well as a general game input scheme.

I never saw the first-person-ness of MP as a selling point, it was just how they did it. it could have been good or bad. If that's how you see it though I can't disagree.

Zeus posted...

Sahuagin posted...

Melee built on SSB mechanically, and not just a little, but significantly. Brawl didn't build on Melee mechanically at all, it regressed mechanically.

Which, among other things, is a stupid, silly argument that basically amounts to: "I liked SSBM's mechanics better."

this is just bait (as is most of your post). Melee is objectively more mechanically developed than SSB.

Zeus posted...

All of which are stupid arguments. Sequels sell because they're popular. Contrary to your angsty indie argument, most companies would *kill* for a series they could successfully sequel and, for the most part, game series only end because they stop being unprofitable. And the issue isn't what they're doing first-party, but instead more a lack of outstanding THIRD-party support which is where Sony & Microsoft -- both of whom also heavily produce sequels when they can -- have generally benefited. It's especially egregious since, when third-party has a hit on a Nintendo console (Resident Evil: Revelations), not only does it get ported to the non-Nintendo systems but those systems are the ones to get the sequel.

you're right about the third-party part.

Zeus posted...

As for hardware innovation, it's a counter to being sucked into the graphics race --- a race to the bottom where dev costs incessantly balloon while providing little to no additional value. And, I should mention, the other consoles have copied Nintendo's hardware innovation. Sony went from calling the analog stick a gimmick to using it on every system since. And, of course, the PS Move and Kinect were created to capitalize on the Wii's success.

you're right about the "counter to graphics race" part.
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Sahuagin posted...

this is just bait (as is most of your post). Melee is objectively more mechanically developed than SSB.

A preference which ultimately changes nothing.
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Zeus posted...

A preference which ultimately changes nothing.

right... wanting interesting game mechanics is a "preference", and game mechanics being in a game changes nothing...

/boggle
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Sahuagin posted...

Zeus posted...

A preference which ultimately changes nothing.

right... wanting interesting game mechanics is a "preference", and game mechanics being in a game changes nothing...

/boggle

A re-hash is a re-hash is a re-hash. You can't use the same pen to praise SSBM while writing off SSBB.
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uh-huh...
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If everything is a rehash... nothing is.
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Metalsonic66 posted...

If everything is a rehash... nothing is.

Except everything isn't a rehash, only rehashes. You have to have hash before you can have a rehash. The problem is that people are selective about it, when they like it, it's not a rehash and when they dislike it, it is a rehash. That's not how the system works.
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I stand by my statement.
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