Current Events > Why do comic books do action so much better than manga?

(+) Yeah! (+)

moving the goal posts

also imagine acting smug while liking shonen crap
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They are different mediums for telling stories. It all depends on the mood you are in.

It's literally comparing apples to oranges.
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SailorGoon posted...

As in there is a main plot. The characters have one story that goes from start to end.

Whats the main plot of Azumanga Daioh? Or Neko Ramen? Or Watamote?

Western comics can have main plots too. They just last a handful of volumes rather than 50-100.

As for canon, look at Ghost in the Shell. Look at Madoka Magica. Look at Evangelion. The concept of alternative canon and universes isnt new to manga. And if you want to break into the world of anime theres the continuity fuck of Tenchi Muyo lol.
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Paper_Okami posted...

moving the goal posts

also imagine acting smug while liking shonen crap

Hardly moving goalposts. I said what I liked in a series, and I like how manga does this always. Comics do not. Comics may do it. They may do it often. However they do not do it as often as Manga. That is a fact. That was my original point. I was using the two mainstream publishers as a medium to illustrate my point however you took it upon yourself to misinterpret the original post.

Imagine using the fact that I like Shonens as a counterargument. Whether it's Shonen, seinen, or any genre as long as it's a manga, it will maintain a linear storyline, time-line, author, artists, etc more than a comic would.

Idk why you're getting so defensive dude. I'm not knocking on comics if that's what's twisting your bunch. I stated what I like from a story and stated that manga does it more. Just because I prefer one thing doesn't mean that the other thing is bad. It's okay that comics change all that stuff way more than manga does. It's just not for me.

SailorGoon posted...

Imagine using the fact that I like Shonens as a counterargument. Whether it's Shonen, seinen, or any genre as long as it's a manga, it will maintain a linear storyline, time-line, author, artists, etc more than a comic would.

Okay, you are definitely overstating the use of alternate continuity as a story-telling device.

Walk into a comic book shop. Go to the "New this Week" rack, and tell me how many different continuities you see in DC and Marvel.
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AlisLandale posted...

SailorGoon posted...

As in there is a main plot. The characters have one story that goes from start to end.

Whats the main plot of Azumanga Daioh? Or Neko Ramen? Or Watamote?

Western comics can have main plots too. They just last a handful of volumes rather than 50-100.

As for canon, look at Ghost in the Shell. Look at Madoka Magica. Look at Evangelion. The concept of alternative canon and universes isnt new to manga. And if you want to break into the world of anime theres the continuity fuck of Tenchi Muyo lol.

The key thing we're talking about is manga. Manga vs Comics. The manga for ghost in the shell is linear. I'm aware that there are multiple adaptations, but that's strictly an anime thing. Same for Evangelion. Madoka was originally an anime as well. It didn't start off as a manga. I'm not saying anime doesn't branch off or change things. Fullmetal did and so did many other shows. I'm saying that a manga series is always self contained.

As for the slice of life gag mangas you reference, there's still a self containment. The characters and how they're depicted remain the same even if there's no linear time line.

And even if there is a manga that isn't self contained, there are far more comics that do this.

The original point was, I like it when a manga doesn't do "(insert from my first post)". Sure there are comics that don't do those things, but it's just far more common in manga.

Because manga and anime is terrible

Peter_Giffyndor posted...

Because manga and anime is terrible

What are some comics you consider to be "not self contained"
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AlisLandale posted...

SailorGoon posted...

Imagine using the fact that I like Shonens as a counterargument. Whether it's Shonen, seinen, or any genre as long as it's a manga, it will maintain a linear storyline, time-line, author, artists, etc more than a comic would.

Okay, you are definitely overstating the use of alternate continuity as a story-telling device.

Walk into a comic book shop. Go to the "New this Week" rack, and tell me how many different continuities you see in DC and Marvel.

If I go the same shop years later I'm sure I'll find a different continuity for spiderman than I would today. Berserk started in 1989. Fast forward 29 years, and it's still the same story. That's the standard that manga has. Yes it's not common for a series to go on for that long. There is a beginning and an end. End of story. Time for a new one with a new world and new characters.

AlisLandale posted...

Or Watamote?

Watamote is practically a coming of age story at this point. She starts the series with zero social skills (funny since she actually had more in the prequel), no social interaction besides one small friend who is way above her status, and no other friends/reoccuring characters besides that.

Now there are over a dozen reoccuring characters, like 7 who are more or less friends with her (including 2 rivals and someone who's actually attracted to her), and she's in her final year having gone through a ton of experiences where she's learned to start thinking of others and not be the self-absorbed and pitying loner she was in the beginning.
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SailorGoon posted...

I go the same shop years later I'm sure I'll find a different continuity for spiderman than I would today.

Actually, you likely wouldnt. Spider-Man has been a consistent continuity since his creation. Amazing Fantasy 15 is still canon. Heck, a Stan Lee story from the 70s was the basis for a major arc in the 90s.
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AlisLandale posted...

SailorGoon posted...

I go the same shop years later I'm sure I'll find a different continuity for spiderman than I would today.

Actually, you likely wouldnt. Spider-Man has been a consistent continuity since his creation. Amazing Fantasy 15 is still canon. Heck, a Stan Lee story from the 70s was the basis for a major arc in the 90s.

That's not the point. How many renditions of spiderman are there? How many times have we seen uncle Ben, aunt may, Gwen, or any character die. How many origin stories are there?

Compare this to Watamote. There is only one Tomoko and it will always be the same rendition. There's no such thing as a black Tomoko.

SailorGoon posted...

AlisLandale posted...

SailorGoon posted...

Imagine using the fact that I like Shonens as a counterargument. Whether it's Shonen, seinen, or any genre as long as it's a manga, it will maintain a linear storyline, time-line, author, artists, etc more than a comic would.

Okay, you are definitely overstating the use of alternate continuity as a story-telling device.

Walk into a comic book shop. Go to the "New this Week" rack, and tell me how many different continuities you see in DC and Marvel.

If I go the same shop years later I'm sure I'll find a different continuity for spiderman than I would today. Berserk started in 1989. Fast forward 29 years, and it's still the same story. That's the standard that manga has. Yes it's not common for a series to go on for that long. There is a beginning and an end. End of story. Time for a new one with a new world and new characters.

It's time for Berserk to wrap up.
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SailorGoon posted...

That's not the point. How many renditions of spiderman are there? How many times have we seen uncle Ben, aunt may, Gwen, or any character die. How many origin stories are there?

You have to buy spin-offs and mini-series to see that. And those dont happen in the "Spider-Man" comic. If you pick up the new Spider-Man #1 this week, everything from Spider-Man 1 (60s) to 801 (last month) is still the canon history.

Stuff like "Spider-Man Blue" or "Spider-Man Season 1" are clearly marketed as spin-offs.

To add to this. How many times have YOU read SpiderMans origin?

That's like complaining that Attack on Titan is ruined by the existence of Junior High.
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legendarylemur posted...

Yeah it's not a big secret that American Comics are too heavily chained by their traditions and long lasting characters. Pretty ironic when Japan is the one known for being bound by their traditions, but mangas tend to have a significantly wider scope of story telling, aside from reusing tropes every now and then

Mangas typically start and end. They can do it because people get attached to the artists in ways Americans don't. Very few people will flood it to buy something because Grant Morrison drew it but in Japan they will do that for Akira Toriyama.

If DC just stopped making Batman comics, they don't have any way to make up for the lost income. There's nothing they can do that will be that popular.
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AlisLandale posted...

SailorGoon posted...

That's not the point. How many renditions of spiderman are there? How many times have we seen uncle Ben, aunt may, Gwen, or any character die. How many origin stories are there?

You have to buy spin-offs and mini-series to see that. And those dont happen in the "Spider-Man" comic. If you pick up the new Spider-Man #1 this week, everything from Spider-Man 1 (60s) to 801 (last month) is still the canon history.

Stuff like "Spider-Man Blue" or "Spider-Man Season 1" are clearly marketed as spin-offs.

That's like complaining that Attack on Titan is ruined by the existence of Junior High.

The big difference is Attack on Titan has only one Canon. Everything else, unless done by Hajime Isayama, is non Canon. That's how it is for any manga.

Are you saying that manga has one real canon and Western comics dont?

Because...thats not remotely true lol >~>
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AlisLandale posted...

Are you saying that manga has one real canon and Western comics dont?

Because...thats not remotely true lol >~>

No. I'm saying that Manga does it so much more often than Comics. Not saying comics don't do it often. Just saying that, compared to manga, they don't do it as often.

A manga series has one canon and it's done by the same author/artist. There is one beginning and one end. There is one singular rendition of their created character. Yes, comics do this too. However, again, it isn't as much the standard as it is for manga.

SailorGoon posted...

Idk dude. I like a coherent linear story that doesn't require reading any supplementary material to get a better understanding of the characters and world that a story takes place in. I also like it when my story isn't reconnected or done a hundred times over.

This is done more often in manga than comics. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying this makes manga better than comics. I'm saying that this is seen more in manga and I, personally, prefer this type of structure. There will always be only one Griffith and Guts. There tale will always remain the same. As it is for all manga.

SailorGoon posted...

However, again, it isn't as much the standard as it is for manga.

But that is the standard. There is only one valid canon for western comics. I dont see how this is hard to understand. >~>
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Both are generally trash lol
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AlisLandale posted...

SailorGoon posted...

However, again, it isn't as much the standard as it is for manga.

But that is the standard. There is only one valid canon for western comics. I dont see how this is hard to understand. >~>

As much... I can't emphasize this enough. Yes, it may be done in comics often. However what I am saying is that it isn't done as often as it is done in manga.

"x does this"
"y does that too"
"Yes, but x does this more often than y does"

That is all I'm saying.

SailorGoon posted...

SailorGoon posted...

Idk dude. I like a coherent linear story that doesn't require reading any supplementary material to get a better understanding of the characters and world that a story takes place in. I also like it when my story isn't reconnected or done a hundred times over.

This is done more often in manga than comics. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying this makes manga better than comics. I'm saying that this is seen more in manga and I, personally, prefer this type of structure. There will always be only one Griffith and Guts. There tale will always remain the same. As it is for all manga.

Im not saying youre saying that. Im saying your understanding of Western Comics is flawed on a fundamental level.

You hear western comics fans talking about Earth-2 and timelines and resets and think its this big convoluted mess. But anything will sound crazy to someone who isnt familiar with it. Try explaining JoJo to someone whos never heard of it and theyll have no idea wtf youre on about.

You can read any Marvel/DC title and it will be incredibly rare that you will need any other title to supplement it. "Spider-Man", "Detective Comics", "Immortal Hulk". "Wonder Woman" Pick any one. You wont need anything but that title. this isnt "less common" than manga. That is the standard.

Yes, there are exceptions, but those are also rare in Western comics. Superman's "Triangle Era" and Batman's Knightfall epic are the exception, and not the rule.
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I will concede that I don't know much about comics outside of the movie adaptations, but my point still stands.

Regardless of whether it's convoluted, what I'm saying is in manga you don't do that.

JoJo's isn't a good example BTW.

Despite there being multiple JoJo's, 8 in total, the storyline is linear. Aside from part 7 and 8, each JoJo is a different character as JoJo is just an abbreviation of their name. All 8 JoJo's canonically existed and are all canonically linked in a chronological order. This can't be said for multiple iterations of characters like spiderman, batman, Superman, etc... On top of that, it's a manga series that deviates from the standard formula, yet it still has that consistency.

If you want to read JoJo's there is a designated spot to start which will take you to the series' ending.

If you want to read DragonBall you start at chapter 1. Read till finish. You now know everything regarding DragonBall. You know about the one and only Goku. This is how it goes for every manga. That's the key difference.

There's one artist and one story. It may be long. It may be short. However there will always be only one beginning, middle, and end. There is one canon. Yes. Comics do this too. However this is the guaranteed formula for manga. It will be seen more in manga. Not saying it isn't seen in comics.

Again, that is why I gravitate towards manga. Because it is done more often.

What Im trying to drive home is that you are not describing any real difference between manga and Western Comics. What youre describing is not rare in comics. It is the standard.

I understand the appeal of manga's simplicity, because thats why I read manga almost exclusively for most of my childhood and young adult life.

But Western comics, the vast majority of the time, are just as easy to follow if you understand that it's organized by title. Pick up "Amazing Spider-Man" at any number, and just keep reading each subsequently numbered issue. Thats it. Thats how simple it is and thats how the vast majority of Marvel/DC comics operate.

When people ask where the best place to start with Western comics are, the answers are usually given based on quality, not because certain stories are required. People recommend "All Star Superman" to new Superman fans not because its needed to understand other Superman comics, but because its a good story.

This is even made easier with the modern trade market. Volumes are numbered sequentially from 1, collect completed selfcontained arcs, and have a single, linear direction 99 percent of the time. This is, again, the standard. So you can read Detective Comics Volume 1, which contains one completed story, and move on to Detective Comics Volume 2.

There are no "alternate incarnations" of Spider-Man or Batman as it pertains to the vast majority of their stories. Though it would help if you mentioned what you think "alternate iterations" are. Any "alternate" version of a character is as easy to identify as it is to identify that "Homura Tamura" isnt part of the other Madoka manga canons.

Theres nothing wrong with preferring the "smaller" world of manga, and I dont mind if you never read a western comic, nust trying to drive home that western comics are yes, normally, the vast majority of the time, as simple and linear as manga. >>~>
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What youre describing is not rare in comics. It is the standard.

Okay, but I'm saying this "standard" is found in manga more often.

When people ask where the best place to start with Western comics are, the answers are usually given based on quality, not because certain stories are required. People recommend "All Star Superman" to new Superman fans not because its needed to understand other Superman comics, but because its a good story.

And with manga if you ask, where do I start, then the answer is "the beginning". There is only one place to start and only one place to go. It has nothing to do with preference or quality. There is a designated place to start which remains the same for every person who wants to get into the series.

There are no "alternate incarnations" of Spider-Man or Batman as it pertains to the vast majority of their stories. Though it would help if you mentioned what you think "alternate iterations" are. Any "alternate" version of a character is as easy to identify as it is to identify that "Homura Tamura" isnt part of the other Madoka manga canons.

Alternate iterations as in not the exact same Peter Parker or Bruce Wayne that you see in their first respective comic.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Spider-Man_titles
And according to this there's a lot.

I understand that often times you have a story where the torch is passed and there's a new spiderman, but not every iteration on that list follows a singular linear time line. That's not inherently bad. However it's not the same as with manga. Canonically, you only have one Goku. You only have one Luffy. Etc. One character. One Story.

Madoka Manga Canon is an entirely different beast as it wasn't a series that originated from a manga. However even if we did count that, there's still very few examples compared to the many other in comics.

Listen, I'm not saying what comics are doing is bad. But I can't agree when you say that they're just as simple as Manga. Are they simple? Yeah. Are they as simple? I can't agree with you there.

AlisLandale posted...

But Western comics, the vast majority of the time, are just as easy to follow if you understand that it's organized by title. Pick up "Amazing Spider-Man" at any number, and just keep reading each subsequently numbered issue. Thats it. Thats how simple it is and thats how the vast majority of Marvel/DC comics operate.

I mean, even with this many issues have different writers, even within an arc. This is most famous with Dr. Doom with a writer literally telling the readers in a panel to completely ignore what the previous writer said.
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