Current Events > Why do comic books do action so much better than manga?

(+) Yeah! (+)

and you know what I mean

Examples?

The only manga I read is Berserk, and if most manga does action this well Im gonna have to disagree with you TC.
---

Actually I don't know what you mean. Examples?
---

Idk. In my experience most western comics spend more time telling stories and rarely focus on drawn out, intricately choreographed fights.

Like, I cant think of a western equivalent of Goku VS Freeza.
---

In my experience western comics change writers every few years and the new shitty writer has to reset the universe to undo the damage done to the story by the previous shitty writer

Manga's like 100x better so...nah
---

Because color?
---

Knowledge_King posted...

Manga's like 100x better so...nah

Lmao Not even close
---

AlisLandale posted...

Idk. In my experience most western comics spend more time telling stories and rarely focus on drawn out, intricately choreographed fights.

Like, I cant think of a western equivalent of Goku VS Freeza.

There are really long drawn out fights but they are rarely between to character like Goku vs Frieza. There's stuff like everyone vs Superboy Prime, or everyone vs Thanos. What you don't typically get is Superman vs Doomsday the 8 issues straight.
---

Rexdragon125 posted...

In my experience western comics change writers every few years and the new shitty writer has to reset the universe to undo the damage done to the story by the previous shitty writer

that's not quite how it works. first of all they are not all shitty. western comics have some great writers. also, no they do not rest the universe every single few years. and third, you make it seem like each series has it's own universe. no. so like when batgirl gets a new writer, they wouldn't reset the entire universe just for batgirl. most stuff is not reset with a new writer. it stays on until a universe reset which usually only happens like maybe every 10 years AT LEAST. but sometimes more. and DC is the only one that does that. Marvel has never done a full universe reset since the beginning in 1961. and DC has only done a handful of true full universe resets and usually there is like 20 or 30 years in between each one. it's not as dire as you make it out to be and I can tell that you don't actually read comics.

dolomedes posted...

isn't manga just... japanese comic books?

ssj-kenobi posted...

and you know what I mean

Zikten posted...

Rexdragon125 posted...

In my experience western comics change writers every few years and the new shitty writer has to reset the universe to undo the damage done to the story by the previous shitty writer

that's not quite how it works. first of all they are not all shitty. western comics have some great writers. also, no they do not rest the universe every single few years. and third, you make it seem like each series has it's own universe. no. so like when batgirl gets a new writer, they wouldn't reset the entire universe just for batgirl. most stuff is not reset with a new writer. it stays on until a universe reset which usually only happens like maybe every 10 years AT LEAST. but sometimes more. and DC is the only one that does that. Marvel has never done a full universe reset since the beginning in 1961. and DC has only done a handful of true full universe resets and usually there is like 20 or 30 years in between each one. it's not as dire as you make it out to be and I can tell that you don't actually read comics.

DC has never done a full reset. The old universe is still there* and gets new books occasionally under the original name Justice Society of America.

*It was destroyed by Darkseid but they didn't just "reset" anything there were in-universe events that dealt with it
---

AlisLandale posted...

Idk. In my experience most western comics spend more time telling stories and rarely focus on drawn out, intricately choreographed fights.

Like, I cant think of a western equivalent of Goku VS Freeza.

this

the old universe in DC is called Earth 2 and yes. but the multiverse does get reset. In 1985 it happened for the first time. and it happened again in 2011 when New 52 began. Technically DC is only in the third incarnation of it's universe, depending on how you look at it.

Zikten posted...

the old universe in DC is called Earth 2 and yes. but the multiverse does get reset. In 1985 it happened for the first time. and it happened again in 2011 when New 52 began. Technically DC is only in the third incarnation of it's universe, depending on how you look at it.

No it wasn't a reset. There was CoIE in the 80s but that was a determined story event that explained what happened to the old stuff.

The history of all that stuff still happened and there are characters that existed in the destroyed universes that were saved and live in the remaining universes.
---

For all intents and purposes it was "reset", but the problem is that DC has never had the balls to really commit to that idea.

Wonder Woman, sure, let George Perez work his magic and give her a 100% reboot where she wasn't even a founding member of the Justice League. Batman? We'll revisit his origin in "Year One" but besides that leave it mostly the same.

Oh hey, Flashpoint! Let's give Wonder Woman a total makeover in terms of story and tone, completely recreate the DC's Greek Pantheon and change the Amazons culture. Let's give Grant Morrison Superman to remold from his origins. But wait, we've barely just come off the tail of Geoff John's Green Lantern stuff and we'd hate to lose that. So don't touch it. Also, Batman has like, five Robins now so leave him alone too.

I love DC comics but it needs a 10 year moratorium on any retro-active continuity management. Hopefully after this Doomsday Clock stuff is over we can move on.
---

Manga has issues because of the deadlines required by mangakas' publishers.

You could almost argue that manga is objectively worse than comics in every quality except for speed.

That doesn't mean the CONTENT is better, but it's clear that manga is heavily suppressed by its tradition and trends.

Non pressured shit, like Berserk, is beautiful though...but Miura is literally going to kill us with this slow assed base.
---

Idk dude. I like a coherent linear story that doesn't require reading any supplementary material to get a better understanding of the characters and world that a story takes place in. I also like it when my story isn't reconnected or done a hundred times over.

Wut lol. I've always found American Comics never go all the way, and they're still doing regular punches to the jaw as significant moves
---

SailorGoon posted...

Idk dude. I like a coherent linear story that doesn't require reading any supplementary material to get a better understanding of the characters and world that a story takes place in. I also like it when my story isn't reconnected or done a hundred times over.

manga is singular story. american comics are more like myths and legends. I like to think that if the ancient greeks had access to mass printing methods, that there would be many many MANY more myths and tons of stories about the same heroes and gods. comics are the modern myths and you might not like how they tell the story but it's really the only way they can do it without totally changing the cast of characters every like 20 years. and people don't want to give up the characters. realisticyly Batman would be a very old man or dead by now. and Spiderman would be elderly even. he'd be like 60 or 70 now.

SailorGoon posted...

Idk dude. I like a coherent linear story that doesn't require reading any supplementary material to get a better understanding of the characters and world that a story takes place in. I also like it when my story isn't reconnected or done a hundred times over.

This, I like when a person can create the story and world they want from beginning to end.
---

Megaman50100 posted...

SailorGoon posted...

Idk dude. I like a coherent linear story that doesn't require reading any supplementary material to get a better understanding of the characters and world that a story takes place in. I also like it when my story isn't reconnected or done a hundred times over.

This, I like when a person can create the story and world they want from beginning to end.

super hero comics have no end though. that's the point. the idea is different. they aren't supposed to ever end

legendarylemur posted...

Wut lol. I've always found American Comics never go all the way, and they're still doing regular punches to the jaw as significant moves

I don't want to post gore and get warned, but check out Ultimate Marvel.

It's edgy as fuck. "death of Wasp ultimate"
---

Yeah I actually know that scene, where she gets partially eaten and shit. But if that was a big moment, something like Goblin Slayer or, hell, Berserk did it better
---

or a way that an alternate universe spiderman died once in in one of the Marvel Zombie stories

Sandman basically went into his mouth and filled out his body til Spiderman burst open. it was very disturbing especially if you like spiderman

Megaman50100 posted...

SailorGoon posted...

Idk dude. I like a coherent linear story that doesn't require reading any supplementary material to get a better understanding of the characters and world that a story takes place in. I also like it when my story isn't reconnected or done a hundred times over.

This, I like when a person can create the story and world they want from beginning to end.

Yeah. And if they like the story or world they can still build on. JoJos bizarre adventure does a pretty good job with this. Yeah there's some issues like Dio always coming back, but it's nothing too bad.

Yeah it's not a big secret that American Comics are too heavily chained by their traditions and long lasting characters. Pretty ironic when Japan is the one known for being bound by their traditions, but mangas tend to have a significantly wider scope of story telling, aside from reusing tropes every now and then
---

Mad respect for Eiichiro Oda for doing what he has done with his series, One Piece. Only Superman and Batman are ahead of it on lifetime sales, with scores of writers and illustrators working for those two series over the course of 80 years. Oda has had 20 years and remains the sole writer and illustrator for his series, with assistants of course. One piece also currently holds about 95% of Batman's lifetime sales, so it will soon be dethroned.
---

Megaman50100 posted...

SailorGoon posted...

Idk dude. I like a coherent linear story that doesn't require reading any supplementary material to get a better understanding of the characters and world that a story takes place in. I also like it when my story isn't reconnected or done a hundred times over.

This, I like when a person can create the story and world they want from beginning to end.

A lot of western stories are like that, though. If you read a series by author (who tend to stick to a series for 30-100 issues) you get all the information you need.

Heck, you don't need to know anything about Batman's history with Jason Todd because if you pick up Red Hood Rebirth, the first chapter blends all the history directly into the narrative while setting up the rest of the run. Even in the middle of numbering this works. Start with Wonder Woman 195 (the beginning of Rucka's run) and just keep reading.

Or just stick to the mini-series like Long Halloween, which are especially constructed to be self-contained. >_>
---

Western Comic books suck. Manga all the way!
---

Well even in self-contained stories, you still run into the problem of it being a superhero story with pre-existing characters in a realistic city setting. American Comics don't have nearly as many angles in storytelling and variety in its world as mangas do, where they just do whatever the hell they want and exist in their own universe.

Like in mangas, crossovers almost never happen outside like a chapter of what-if gags or small references of shows that break the 4th wall.
---

legendarylemur posted...

Well even in self-contained stories, you still run into the problem of it being a superhero story with pre-existing characters in a realistic city setting. American Comics don't have nearly as many angles in storytelling and variety in its world as mangas do, where they just do whatever the hell they want and exist in their own universe.

A lot of manga also take place in realistic settings though. And, at least in super-hero comics (indie comics take place in all sorts of genres and settings), they take so many liberties with "Earth" that it may as well be a different planet. A recent Superman arc took place in a quiet rural city with a distinct atmosphere, and it turned out all the citizens were actually aliens. There's also Gotham City, which is more a parody of a city than a realistic location.

Settings in Big-2 superhero comics aren't nearly as restrictive as you think. They're constantly changing and evolving. And non-cape books are just as wild and varied as manga. Look at something like Saga, for instance.
---

Paper_Okami posted...

Knowledge_King posted...

Manga's like 100x better so...nah

Lmao Not even close

Yep. In every way too. Story, action, etc.
---

AlisLandale posted...

legendarylemur posted...

Well even in self-contained stories, you still run into the problem of it being a superhero story with pre-existing characters in a realistic city setting. American Comics don't have nearly as many angles in storytelling and variety in its world as mangas do, where they just do whatever the hell they want and exist in their own universe.

A lot of manga also take place in realistic settings though. And, at least in super-hero comics (indie comics take place in all sorts of genres and settings), they take so many liberties with "Earth" that it may as well be a different planet. A recent Superman arc took place in a quiet rural city with a distinct atmosphere, and it turned out all the citizens were actually aliens. There's also Gotham City, which is more a parody of a city than a realistic location.

Settings in Big-2 superhero comics aren't nearly as restrictive as you think. They're constantly changing and evolving. And non-cape books are just as wild and varied as manga. Look at something like Saga, for instance.

It also depends on what you specifically read.

There's some really good one off stories that happen in DC, but they usually get buried under the popular characters. DC Rebirth is doing some serious good atm, if that's what you're looking for.
New 52 really killed the taste for a lotta people though.

I also don't really keep up with stuff outside of DC and Marvel, but I bet Dark Horse has some decent stuff.
---

SailorGoon posted...

Idk dude. I like a coherent linear story that doesn't require reading any supplementary material to get a better understanding of the characters and world that a story takes place in. I also like it when my story isn't reconnected or done a hundred times over.

acting like dc and marvel are all comics I'd so dumb
---

legendarylemur posted...

Well even in self-contained stories, you still run into the problem of it being a superhero story with pre-existing characters in a realistic city setting. American Comics don't have nearly as many angles in storytelling and variety in its world as mangas do, where they just do whatever the hell they want and exist in their own universe.

Like in mangas, crossovers almost never happen outside like a chapter of what-if gags or small references of shows that break the 4th wall.

Holy shit this is objectively wrong

comics are far more varied than manga

people who clearly know so little about comics shouldn't talk about them
---

wannabepranksta posted...

Western Comic books suck. Manga all the way!

dont' see any manga making mega franchise movie universes that are watched by billions all over the world

Paper_Okami posted...

SailorGoon posted...

Idk dude. I like a coherent linear story that doesn't require reading any supplementary material to get a better understanding of the characters and world that a story takes place in. I also like it when my story isn't reconnected or done a hundred times over.

acting like dc and marvel are all comics I'd so dumb

The point is, that everything I mentioned is the Standard for Manga. Yes, I understand that there are comics with a self contained story, but that's something manga does consistently.

@SailorGoon

Are you SailorGoon from the Vita boards or just a Hoth alt?
---

DoctorVader posted...

@SailorGoon

Are you SailorGoon from the Vita boards or just a Hoth alt?

Neither. I'm simply paying homage to the original lol

Well, not really. It's more of a coincidence. It was a name I saw that I really liked. Wish I could say I came up with it on my own.

SailorGoon posted...

Paper_Okami posted...

SailorGoon posted...

Idk dude. I like a coherent linear story that doesn't require reading any supplementary material to get a better understanding of the characters and world that a story takes place in. I also like it when my story isn't reconnected or done a hundred times over.

acting like dc and marvel are all comics I'd so dumb

The point is, that everything I mentioned is the Standard for Manga. Yes, I understand that there are comics with a self contained story, but that's something manga does consistently.

It's something comics do consistently as well lol

just because you're ignorant doesn't make it wrong
---

Perhaps. Still missing the point. Doesn't change the fact that when compared to manga that isn't the case. Especially in regards to the mainstream. Shonen Jump doesn't constantly change artists or writers in a series compared to their counterpart Marvel/DC. Can you even name a series that changes artists and/or writers?

Yes, I understand that Marvel and DC don't make up the entirety of comics. Doesn't change the fact that within the mainstream, that is where manga and comics greatly differ.

I'm trying to stay away from saying
Yes comics do this, but manga does this always. However I'm not going to make that claim. I'm not familiar with every manga series. However I've yet to see or hear of a manga that do the things that I mentioned comics do. Hence why I went with the word consistent.

SailorGoon posted...

The point is, that everything I mentioned is the Standard for Manga. Yes, I understand that there are comics with a self contained story, but that's something manga does consistently.

Define "self contained".

Because now that I think about it, theres not much difference between Superman having a thousand issues and One Piece having a hundred volumes. The only difference is that there are effectively two or more Superman titles running concurrently, but those rarely cross-over. (In all of Rebirth the last two years, Superman and Action Comics crossed over once. And that cross over wasnt necessary for understanding anything else in either series)

And the more popular manga like Attack on Titan, Fairy Tail, and MHA are now seeing spin-offs and gaiden stories. And things like the "A Certain..." Series are effectively their own Western-style comic universes.
---

SailorGoon posted...

Perhaps. Still missing the point. Doesn't change the fact that when compared to manga that isn't the case. Especially in regards to the mainstream. Shonen Jump doesn't constantly change artists or writers in a series compared to their counterpart Marvel/DC. Can you even name a series that changes artists and/or writers?

Yes, I understand that Marvel and DC don't make up the entirety of comics. Doesn't change the fact that within the mainstream, that is where manga and comics greatly differ.

Except you're 100% wrong

vertigo, image, dark horse are all mainstream and mostly self contained
---

AlisLandale posted...

SailorGoon posted...

The point is, that everything I mentioned is the Standard for Manga. Yes, I understand that there are comics with a self contained story, but that's something manga does consistently.

Define "self contained".

Because now that I think about it, theres not much difference between Superman having a thousand issues and One Piece having a hundred volumes. The only difference is that there are effectively two or more Superman titles running concurrently, but those rarely cross-over. (In all of Rebirth the last two years, Superman and Action Comics crossed over once. And that cross over wasnt necessary for understanding anything else in either series)

And the more popular manga like Attack on Titan, Fairy Tail, and MHA are now seeing spin-offs and gaiden stories. And things like the "A Certain..." Series are effectively their own Western-style comic universes.

As in there is a main plot. The characters have one story that goes from start to end.

One Piece has a beginning and it progresses to the end. There is no alternate canon or non canon(manga-wise that is). There is only one Luffy.

As for spin-offs. Yes they do exist, but they're treated as spin-offs. They aren't integral to the main series. They aren't an alternate canon. Not a reboot. They are spin offs.

Paper_Okami posted...

SailorGoon posted...

Perhaps. Still missing the point. Doesn't change the fact that when compared to manga that isn't the case. Especially in regards to the mainstream. Shonen Jump doesn't constantly change artists or writers in a series compared to their counterpart Marvel/DC. Can you even name a series that changes artists and/or writers?

Yes, I understand that Marvel and DC don't make up the entirety of comics. Doesn't change the fact that within the mainstream, that is where manga and comics greatly differ.

Except you're 100% wrong

vertigo, image, dark horse are all mainstream and mostly self contained

Keyword there is "mostly". Like I said, compared to manga... So find me a manga series that changes writers, artists, timelines, universes, canon. You can find 1 manga series that does this as fast as you can find 10 comics that do this.

I'll help you out though. Jojo's does a time-line change with Part 7 and 8, however it is a direct result from the part 6 ending.