Board 8 > Blade Mafia 5 T13: If it looks like a cow, smells like a cow, eats like a cow...

(+) Yeah! (+)

Perhaps there is a nightkill that scum didnt want town to come to understand.
Knowing Pxels results didnt help clear things up for me much though.
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eh.

on a basic level, yes, the godfather is "true scum" and the usurper is an annoying bad guy that is fucking with the scum team

but on an actual mechanical level, both are sort of equal - the other 4 scum can win with the godfather, or with the usurper, right?

a scumteam is purposefully killing their own chances if they try to get back at a usurper just for being a usurper

he's still the same allignment as them. not sure they get so pissed off at him for playing to his wincon that they boot him.

this is why usurpers are weird though. not sure a scumteam can FORCE them to send the kill if they don't agree to it?

Yes, scum team still wins with the Usurper. Not sure if Godfather does too, or not. He didn't in the one game I played with one.
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ah, i didn't mean it as a mechanical question, the "right?" was just rhetorical

but ty

They might, however, get mad at him and leave him to make decisions for himself. Everyone said Mzero was bad as scum, right?
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I dont recall that myself.

I dont know if scum can force usurpers to obey either.

Ugh, this is just adding more headaches to my train of thought. Though I think I can at least cross of a hypothetical scumteam of Ashe and Corrik..
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If Ulti were in this game, I'd say he wouldn't roleblock Corrik.

Other than that though, I'm not sure who else might not. Thought it might be another avenue to at least consider.
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yeah but who'd let him make decisions for himself?

literally only a dels/shad team could ever do that

'cause shad afk

and maybe dels is like "whatever i don't care, we're losing, do whatever you want"

death, panthera, ashe, (or corrik) probably try to make sure the night actions are, y'know, the right ones. i guess pxl also checked out but eh. no.

oh right. who else is even worth roleblocking?

block corrik on the chance he really does have an action, not some medical examiner that... i'll be honest i never read what it does and i still don't know, but it didn't sound tremendously useful

No scum team should ever let me make night actions. I don't think I'd let them let me make the decision.
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This day has stagnated hard.
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Corrik posted...

This day has stagnated hard.

almost like i said at the start of the day "this game has stagnated, we're not getting anywhere, there is nothing new to find, let's just do this quickly please"

we're just trying to talk about why scum did the weird stuff they did

and people are going back trying to find interactions and not getting anywhere

we have come up with a plausible theory for you being scum though

but i don't think you'd count that as non-stagnation

I dunno, I feel like Ashethan finally brought some life back..
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i mean shad is here so i guess we wait and see if he's got anything

but if you don't, shad, it's ok

htaeD posted...

I dunno, I feel like Ashethan finally brought some life back..

yeah, i'm kinda impressed tbh. it's a really good deduction.

i don't yet know if it means anything, or if it's just more "lolscum"

but yeah

I mean if Ashethan is scum with Shad or you, I dont see why he'd need to drag more through the mud when he has enough mislynches in me/you/shad
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htaeD posted...

I dunno, I feel like Ashethan finally brought some life back..

He hasn't really. He is either town talking in circles to finally get to the wrong result ala Panthera last game or scum just trying to toss suspicion out across the game.

It is probably the former, but he is not really accomplishing anything. He is now into tin foil hat mode where he is trying to assume what happened with scum all based on a usurper flip which we have zero idea of how it works because it is always different.
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htaeD posted...

I mean if Ashethan is scum with Shad or you, I dont see why he'd need to drag more through the mud when he has enough mislynches in me/you/shad

hm?

i meant we're the ones lolling at scum

not that ashe is lolscum

ashe is... town.

scum definitely don't need to do anything if they're outside of the PoE.

they need to look not complacent, perhaps.

but they don't actually care, with the lynch order set.

(is it set? is it me today? i assume it is but no one's really been talking about it)

I wasnt as 100 % as everyone else on that.
But this is helping. His thoughts remind me of at my at my worst as secondguessing town.
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I will be upfront and say that I still think you're scum that needs to die, Dels

Nothing personal.
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That said, yes
A lot of players have been open-ended today. At least I know what Corrik and you want, and I kinda think Panth wants to vote you?
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htaeD posted...

I will be upfront and say that I still think you're scum that needs to die, Dels

Nothing personal.

I mean, yeah, I think you're scum too.

Only one of us is telling the truth though. =P

But my fate was decided... well, a while back. The moment I stuck to that alliance.

Before that too, 'cause pxl doesn't understand me, and she just sort of left, and Corrik is... well, Corrik.

Death -- if Dels flips town, who do you think the last two scum are?

I figure asking today will be more beneficial than asking tomorrow.
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It would've been up to Chris to change my fate, but he decided he didn't want to.

Apparently he has a high respect for my scum game, to think not a single one of my posts isn't fakeable.

It's... I mean, I'll take it, I guess.

The problem is, if I die, and either Panthera or Corrik are scum, then the town has lost.

Maybe not if Corrik is scum, because Ashe found a neat theory against him, and people don't even seem to really suspect you death, except that you're in the PoE?

But yeah.

My death will seal the outcome of the game most likely - I just won't know what outcome that is.

You have a whole game worth of scum interactions which even predate your time even in the slot.
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Man, nothing posted for Zam is a clear scum interaction. Questionable at worst.

BLOSSOM STORM!

Ashethan posted...

Death -- if Dels flips town, who do you think the last two scum are?

I figure asking today will be more beneficial than asking tomorrow.

I still cant see pxel being scum, and Panthera was specialed pretty hard.
So it'd be a toss up between you and Corrik then, with a lean towards you.
Shad is still the 2nd scum in my mind though. Since I cant see you and Corrik working together as scum.
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That's weird. Cause I can't see Corrik and Shad on the same scum team. I mean, reading Corrik over, I get the feeling he's town. But more than that both claimed Jinjo early. Corrik was going after Shad hard early too. When I was doing my own PoE, Shad/Corrik was one of the first teams I eliminated. I just can't see the two of them on the same team together.
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That is super dangerous thinking Panthera is cleared as town.
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If by some miracle Dels flipped town, everyone's entire reads should be off the table and need to be worked again from scratch with the new information.

There is zero point to even say who would be what if he flipped that way. For one, it is basically impossible. 2nd of all, if it were true the last thing you want to do is pidgeon hole thinking so that scum can pick and choose who to kill in order to win at mylo based off of who thinks what going into it.

Thus, there is zero point to that. The answer to that question is simply every single read would need to be reevaluated in entirety.

Dels is pretty much confirmed scum tho.
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I know, I didnt mean to say that.
I just have him higher than you/Ashe.
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Ashethan posted...

That's weird. Cause I can't see Corrik and Shad on the same scum team. I mean, reading Corrik over, I get the feeling he's town. But more than that both claimed Jinjo early. Corrik was going after Shad hard early too. When I was doing my own PoE, Shad/Corrik was one of the first teams I eliminated. I just can't see the two of them on the same team together.

Fair point here tho.
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You do realize that me flipping town isn't a "miracle", right? It means you mislynched and are at lylo.

So going back to the whole question of night actions you guys were talking about, I want you to actually think about day...4, the Leo lynch one I think that was? Corrik said he was sure Leo was town, sure MZero was scum, a mislynch would put us one away from losing...and he didn't explicitly counterclaim. You could figure it out from his insistence on MZero being scum, perhaps, but he never directly said "Yo I'm not actually a vanilla here, MZero is claiming a version of my role, kill him". I can see scum believing in that case that he really was vanilla and not blocking him, because most people would just counterclaim directly in that scenario so his lack of doing it makes it plausible for scum to have been fooled.

Anyway I'll be around for about a bit more than an hour then I have to go, might be back by the deadline but probably not. I'm 99% sure I'll be leaving a vote on Dels before I go, if anyone has anything to talk about to me or reason why I should vote someone else, better get it in quick while I'm here to see.
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we thought about that

ashe specifically said "maybe they just believed corrik when he said he was actually vanilla?"

so we already talked about the point you're making, it is nothing new

it's possible they believed corrik, also possible not

you can vote me but hopefully you'll learn from it that it is like i said, the scum are not the ones doing crazy insane over-the-top shit like allying with outted scum and voting trackers and going on and on about honor

they are more often than not the ones taking safe positions, being careful, deliberate, etc

scum are the ones who have the weakest stances, usually, 'cause it's harder for them to fake

right now you believe that what is in front of you is the craziest most nonsensical and absurd scum game you have ever seen in your life

i don't know why you believe that's happening, and not the simpler explanation, which is: a stupid bad townie, something you have probably seen dozens of times

but you do you. personally i think you have a problem accepting that a person with my viewpoint on the game might exist, so you shut it out.

They obviously believed me. It is how long after I rescind my power claim that Mzero comes in with his supposed power claim.

He clearly thought it was safe to do.
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idk I thought you were too good to qualify as "stupid bad townie"

Dels posted...

but you do you. personally i think you have a problem accepting that a person with my viewpoint on the game might exist, so you shut it out.

No, I simply don't believe in taking your word at face value in a game about deception
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Panthera posted...

idk I thought you were too good to qualify as "stupid bad townie"

thanks!

shouldn't i therefore also be too good to be a horribly bad scum though?

Dels posted...

No, I simply don't believe in taking your word at face value in a game about deception

yeah i get that, but it's not necessarily about believing me, its about if you really think scum's strategy would be to do this

Corrik posted...

They obviously believed me. It is how long after I rescind my power claim that Mzero comes in with his supposed power claim.

He clearly thought it was safe to do.

well, if you're town then yeah they probably believed you

we're wondering if it's truly safe to assume they'd believe you. if we don't think they would, then it'd be make you scum.

but there's no real solution either way. like panthera and ashe said, they could've totally just thought "lol corrik" and believed you. (even though you did indicate a correct scan earlier, they coulda thought coincidence or luck)

again, this actually makes the team look like dels/shad because I clearly believed you, and shad wans't around

so, not a great point for me lol

but we're just theorizing so whatever. it's not gonna get us anywhere

Dels posted...

shouldn't i therefore also be too good to be a horribly bad scum though?

Keeping up a very strange act that allows you to justify not doing much to lynch scum while making the conversation about you day after day while you triple post about how honourable you are for using specific wording to be able to suggest one thing while technically having room to say you meant another seems like something only a dedicated criminal genius could pull off
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I am really tired for some reason

topic4, Panth does bring up the same point about Shad trusting Corriks claim for some reason.
If Shad ever gets back, I hope he can explain that again.
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Votals?
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Votals I think are:

(1) Dels - Corrik
(0) Shad - (Dels)
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Panthera posted...

Dels posted...

shouldn't i therefore also be too good to be a horribly bad scum though?

Keeping up a very strange act that allows you to justify not doing much to lynch scum while making the conversation about you day after day while you triple post about how honourable you are for using specific wording to be able to suggest one thing while technically having room to say you meant another seems like something only a dedicated criminal genius could pull off

lol

fair enough

its more likely to be a scum strategy that lets me focus on that

than ridiculous town

makes sense i guess

i've played the "i'm nice" card as scum before (though it was just because i was trying to be a better person at the time so i was trying to be really nice regardless, but i probably overemphasized it a bit)

also idk what you mean though by saying not doing much to lynch scum

like i DID do things to find scum. i helped try to solve BCT (and failed), then pushed corrik, was trying to lynch ashe for a few days, eventually removed death from my townlist (before chris did) and then sort of wondered about PoE including suspecting you for a while

i don't think the leo stuff takes away from the fact that I have consistently shown my progress on reads and who i thought was scum. it's in addition to all that, not taking away from it

you're caught up on the wording thing and it bothers me because, if i am town, you know i really did do absolutely everything i could to honor the alliance, and trying to discredit that just because i sometimes used wording to make sure i wasn't lying is... meh. if i'm town, at lest give me points for conviction in my beliefs, don't try to tell me those beliefs were just wordplay.

if it is me, then I won't vote anyone.

i'll give you a chance, shad, just like i gave leo =P

because the votes won't matter this time either

Honestly, I've lost interest in seriously discussing this shit with all of you but i guess the one input I do have at this point is the only way i see dels as scum is with 2 scum teams.

That alliance shit is too stupid of a gambit for scum to pull with each other in that situation.
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Dels posted...

also idk what you mean though by saying not doing much to lynch scum

Basically that for various reasons you haven't really been involved in a lynch besides that MZero vote on Leo's day. It's not necessarily that you haven't looked like you had any thoughts, just that between modkills and MZero's claim and Han being a sure thing, there hasn't been much room for you to be deciding things, which could of course be a town thing but also is something scum might want to have an excuse for, so making the days about yourself with odd behavior makes you look like a very active presence.

Dels posted...

you're caught up on the wording thing and it bothers me because, if i am town, you know i really did do absolutely everything i could to honor the alliance, and trying to discredit that just because i sometimes used wording to make sure i wasn't lying is... meh. if i'm town, at lest give me points for conviction in my beliefs, don't try to tell me those beliefs were just wordplay.

No, I don't know that because to me, the whole alliance business doesn't make sense unless you were fully committed to it and wanted to keep Leo alive. Anything short of that and it doesn't look like some sort of code of honour. That is why the alliance thing annoys me, it doesn't add up to me unless it's taken to a degree that doesn't belong in mafia for obvious reasons.
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pxlated posted...

Honestly, I've lost interest in seriously discussing this shit with all of you but i guess the one input I do have at this point is the only way i see dels as scum is with 2 scum teams.

That alliance shit is too stupid of a gambit for scum to pull with each other in that situation.

Then who is scum?
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