Current Events > Denmark passes laws targeting 'ghetto parents' and 'ghetto children' in immigran

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t communities

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/01/world/europe/denmark-immigrant-ghettos.html

When Rokhaia Naassan gives birth in the coming days, she and her baby boy will enter a new category in the eyes of Danish law. Because she lives in a low-income immigrant neighborhood described by the government as a ghetto, Rokhaia will be what the Danish newspapers call a ghetto parent and he will be a ghetto child.

Starting at the age of 1, ghetto children must be separated from their families for at least 25 hours a week, not including nap time, for mandatory instruction in Danish values, including the traditions of Christmas and Easter, and Danish language. Noncompliance could result in a stoppage of welfare payments. Other Danish citizens are free to choose whether to enroll children in preschool up to the age of six.

Denmarks government is introducing a new set of laws to regulate life in 25 low-income and heavily Muslim enclaves, saying that if families there do not willingly merge into the countrys mainstream, they should be compelled.

For decades, integrating immigrants has posed a thorny challenge to the Danish model, intended to serve a small, homogeneous population. Leaders are focusing their ire on urban neighborhoods where immigrants, some of them placed there by the government, live in dense concentrations with high rates of unemployment and gang violence.

Politicians description of the ghettos has become increasingly sinister. In his annual New Years speech, Prime Minister Lars Lokke Rasmussen warned that ghettos could reach out their tentacles onto the streets by spreading violence, and that because of ghettos, cracks have appeared on the map of Denmark. Politicians who once used the word integration now call frankly for assimilation.

That tough approach is embodied in the ghetto package. Of 22 proposals presented by the government in early March, most have been agreed upon by a parliamentary majority, and more will be subject to a vote in the fall.

Some are punitive: One measure under consideration would allow courts to double the punishment for certain crimes if they are committed in one of the 25 neighborhoods classified as ghettos, based on residents income, employment status, education levels, number of criminal convictions and non-Western background. Another would impose a four-year prison sentence on immigrant parents who force their children to make extended visits to their country of origin described here as re-education trips in that way damaging their schooling, language and well-being. Another would allow local authorities to increase their monitoring and surveillance of ghetto families.

Some proposals have been rejected as too radical, like one from the far-right Danish Peoples Party that would confine ghetto children to their homes after 8 p.m. (Challenged on how this would be enforced, Martin Henriksen, the chairman of Parliaments integration committee, suggested in earnest that young people in these areas could be fitted with electronic ankle bracelets.)

...

Yildiz Akdogan, a Social Democrat whose parliamentary constituency includes Tingbjerg, which is classified as a ghetto, said Danes had become so desensitized to harsh rhetoric about immigrants that they no longer register the negative connotation of the word ghetto and its echoes of Nazi Germanys separation of Jews...

She pulled out her phone to display a Facebook post from a right-wing politician, railing furiously at a Danish supermarket for selling a cake reading Eid Mubarak, for the Muslim holiday of Eid. Right now, facts dont matter so much, its only feelings, she said. This is the dangerous part of it.
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Ewww
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teepan95 posted...

Ewww

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the fuck
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Lol
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Balrog0 posted...

Starting at the age of 1, ghetto children must be separated from their families for at least 25 hours a week

holy shit
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At least 25 hours of free day care? Where do I sign up?
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My parents would have been thrilled to have me out of the house for 25 hours a week growing up lmao.

But seriously though is this real life?
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I did Nazi that coming
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Meh, seems like it should help with integration.
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Huh... it's almost like when you expand the government to give "free" shit to everyone they also start taking more control over everyone's lives. Who'd have thought?
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Trigg3rH4ppy posted...

I did Nazi that coming

you literally made me lol

well-played friend
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This is the most tepid attempt at getting immigrants to integrate and you're calling them Nazis?

The problem with the Nazis weren't that they threatened to take away welfare from Jews that didn't send their kids to school. Fucking hell.
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Government programs snowball into more government programs. The government program of mass subsidized immigration from the 3rd world (open borders + a generous welfare state) leads to weird follow-ups like this.

Welfare stalls assimilation because you dont have to interact in the voluntary/private sector. I see what they are going for here, but I dont think it will work.
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TheEvilMushroom posted...

My parents would have been thrilled to have me out of the house for 25 hours a week growing up lmao.

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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

This is the most tepid attempt at getting immigrants to integrate and you're calling them Nazis?

You seriously can't think of anything less punitive than this?
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based
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Balrog0 posted...

Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

This is the most tepid attempt at getting immigrants to integrate and you're calling them Nazis?

You seriously can't think of anything less punitive than this?

Than stopping giving out free money to non-citizens that don't want to take part in their society?
No.
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

Than stopping giving out free money to non-citizens that don't want to take part in their society?
No.

1) Is that the only proposal you saw? There are others.

2) Is 'taking part in society' the same as 'having stricter rules on what you do vs what natives can do with respect to spending time with their kids'?

Like, are you even trying any more? I remember when you were capable of an intelligent conversation that didn't rely on hamfisted simplifications like this. It's pretty sad.
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This sounds like the Native American reeducation programs they had in the US and Canada, aka a human rights violation. This will not go well. Sounds like something the government will need to apologize for in 75 years.
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When even Denmark is turning against the migrant influx, you know something is wrong
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Furthermore, some of those proposals are shockingly discriminatory. Race/location/income based criminal punishments and curfews? Wtf?

I'd like to see who defends this stuff.
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But Trump!
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Sephiroth1288 posted...

When even Denmark is turning against the migrant influx, you know something is wrong

Denmark has never taken a lot of refugees you illiterate.
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RebelElite791 posted...

Sephiroth1288 posted...

When even Denmark is turning against the migrant influx, you know something is wrong

Denmark has never taken a lot of refugees you illiterate.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/01/denmark-refugees-immigration-law/431520/

While Denmark has not traditionally been a magnet for immigration, it hasnt necessarily been an unwelcome place for migrants either. Over the course of the 20th century, the country of nearly 6 million became home to refugees and immigrants from the Soviet bloc, the Balkans, the Middle East, and beyond. Today, immigrants and their descendants account for 10 percent of the total population. Denmark has also been a prominent advocate for refugees and asylum-seekers. It was one of the first countries to become a party to the 1951 UN Refugee Convention, and the Danish Refugee Councila humanitarian group partly funded by the Danish government and the Danish publicis actively involved in supporting refugees and internally displaced peoples around the world.

But the past year brought something different. In 2015, 21,000 people sought asylum in Denmarkup from 14,815 asylum applications in 2014 and 7,557 in 2013. (Denmark happens to be sandwiched between the two most popular European destinations for todays migrants and refugees: Germany and Sweden.) These are numbers that the Danish welfare statewhich guarantees free health care and education, among other benefits, to every citizenis struggling to handle.

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He was vague with "a lot" for a reason.
He's just going to move the goal post.
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

He was vague with "a lot" for a reason.
He's just going to move the goal post.

Nope, I was thinking of more recent numbers anyways, those are higher than I thought but even those numbers he posted are far less than many or most other European countries.

Don't worry, we all know you of all people love this law.
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

He was vague with "a lot" for a reason.
He's just going to move the goal post.

Considering my tag for you, Im not surprised you defend blatantly racist bullshit
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Tag
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Literally not even the dumbest thing they've done. >_>
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RebelElite791 posted...

Don't worry, we all know you of all people love this law.

anarchy jubilex has certainly dropped any pretense of actual objectivity in recent months, though he continues to act like the reasonable person in the room for some really odd reason
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I am still one of if not the most reasonable person on CE. Reasonable isn't necessarily amicable.
Isn't that the point of debate? Using arguments to reason people into or out of positions, if not your opponent, the audience?

I engage in good faith and with intellectual integrity, I try not to strawman, I try to point out honest mistakes so they can be corrected, and I even approach my opponents with the principle of charity. Albeit sometimes I am more pedantic than necessary but it keeps people honest. Hell, half the time I'm arguing I'm not even staking out a position, I'm just attack a bad argument because of its flaws.
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The point of arguments if you are reasonable and objective is to come to some kind of consensus regarding the truth of a matter. The point of arguing for an audience is if you've abandoned objectivity and only want to push a point.

You do not engage in good faith on these issues. A good faith argument would respond to more than just the easiest plank of a policy platform. An argument with intellectual integrity would not overly simplify the plank as being a slogan, instead of a concrete policy. If your opponent is responding to 7 policies and saying that makes you a nazi, a not-strawman of them would take into account all of those policies, not just the easy one.

It's not about being pedantic or semantic. That's fine. That's not what you did.

IMHO
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All of Europe should be doing this.
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i support the end goal, but the way they're trying to reach it is pretty shitty

Given that it's tied into entitlement benefits rather than actually being mandatory and has some benefit to the children, I can kinda understand it. Acculturation can help their long-term prospects and this looks like it'll help prepare them for school. The entire process can prevent the creation of a permanent second-class citizenry.
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Broken_Zeus posted...

Given that it's tied into entitlement benefits rather than actually being mandatory and has some benefit to the children, I can kinda understand it. Acculturation can help their long-term prospects and this looks like it'll help prepare them for school. The entire process can prevent the creation of a permanent second-class citizenry.

The american experience with immigration doesn't show that people never acculturate even if they stay in chinatown or little saigon

but even if it did, did you notice the other measures? like doubling penalties for people in ghetto for criminal offenses? if they really believed that was effective, why don't they have stuff like the death penalty and life imprisonment*?

same logic
*denmark technically has life sentences but not life without parole. you are eligible for parole after like a decade
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Is Denmark the place that wanted cops to be able to confiscate any items they believed are "stolen" from people just walking down the street

Good to see that they are cracking down on parents who take their kids to non-Western countries for brainwashing. This is what you get when it's unchecked:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8_dBOzufWQ" data-time="

This is really fucking scary. And the Swedish equivalent party has cited Denmark to be their model society. Ugh
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Socialist lite state doing socialist lite things
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Kazi1212 posted...

Socialist lite state doing socialist lite things

Simmer down, the US are still doing concentration camps at the border
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scar the 1 posted...

Kazi1212 posted...

Socialist lite state doing socialist lite things

Simmer down, the US are still doing concentration camps at the border

This is the kind of thing people say when we stop teaching or gloss over history in schools.
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Funbazooka posted...

All of Europe should be doing this.

All of Europe should double people's punishment, based on where they live?

JE19426 posted...

Funbazooka posted...

All of Europe should be doing this.

All of Europe should double people's punishment, based on where they live?

I don't care much for basing "which areas do we apply this to" on race; but if they remove that and base it purely on unemployment / crime stats, I think it's actually a great idea. You need a stronger approach to make a sick body healthy, than you need to keep a healthy one healthy.
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