Current Events > Study: We're told gentrification is 'bad', but inaction is far worse

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EmaIdon7 06/24/18 5:35:50 PM #1:	Tl;dr - Naysayers rely on anecdotal stories for why gentrification is a bad thing, often ignore the declining crime rate and increased wages and availability of services. Majority of the poor residents stay and are able to improve their lives with the rising economy that whites people bring. https://www.economist.com/united-states/2018/06/23/in-praise-of-gentrification GENTRIFIER has surpassed many worthier slurs to become the dirtiest word in American cities. In the popular telling, hordes of well-to-do whites are descending upon poor, minority neighbourhoods that were made to endure decades of discrimination. With their avocado on toast, beard oil and cappuccinos, these people snuff out local culture. As rents rise, lifelong residents are evicted and forced to leave. In this view, the quintessential scene might be one witnessed in Oakland, California, where a miserable-looking homeless encampment rests a mere ten-minute walk from a Whole Foods landscaped with palm trees and bougainvillea, offering chia and flax seed upon entry. An ancient, sinister force lurks behind the overpriced produce. Gentrification is but a more pleasing name for white supremacy, wrote Ta-Nehisi Coates. It is the interest on enslavement, the interest on Jim Crow, the interest on redlining, compounding across the years. This story is better described as an urban myth. The supposed ills of gentrificationwhich might be more neutrally defined as poorer urban neighbourhoods becoming wealthierlack rigorous support. The most careful empirical analyses conducted by urban economists have failed to detect a rise in displacement within gentrifying neighbourhoods. Often, they find that poor residents are more likely to stay put if they live in these areas. At the same time, the benefits of gentrification are scarcely considered. Longtime residents reap the rewards of reduced crime and better amenities. Those lucky enough to own their homes come out richer. The left usually bemoans the lack of investment in historically non-white neighbourhoods, white flight from city centres and economic segregation. Yet gentrification straightforwardly reverses each of those regrettable trends. The anti-gentrification brigades often cite anecdotes from residents forced to move. Yet the data suggest a different story. An influential study by Lance Freeman and Frank Braconi found that poor residents living in New Yorks gentrifying neighbourhoods during the 1990s were actually less likely to move than poor residents of non-gentrifying areas. A follow-up study by Mr Freeman, using a nationwide sample, found scant association between gentrification and displacement. A more recent examination found that financially vulnerable residents in Philadelphiathose with low credit scores and no mortgagesare no more likely to move if they live in a gentrifying neighbourhood. Those who bemoan segregation and gentrification simultaneously risk contradiction. The introduction of affluent, white residents into poor, minority districts boosts racial and economic integration. It can dilute the concentration of povertywhich a mountain of economic and sociological literature has linked to all manner of poor outcomes, including teenage pregnancy, incarceration and early death. Gentrification steers cash into deprived neighbourhoods and brings people into depopulated areas through market forces, all without the necessity of governmental intervention. The Trump administration is unlikely to offer large infusions of cash to dilapidated cities. In these circumstances, arguing against gentrification can amount to insistence that poor neighbourhoods remain poor and that racially segregated neighbourhoods stay cut off. <cite>EmaIdon7 posted [p:903889228] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote>Tl;dr - Naysayers rely on anecdotal stories for why gentrification is a bad thing, often ignore the declining crime rate and increased wages and availability of services. Majority of the poor residents stay and are able to improve their lives with the rising economy that whites people bring. https://www.economist.com/united-states/2018/06/23/in-praise-of-gentrification GENTRIFIER has surpassed many worthier slurs to become the dirtiest word in American cities. In the popular telling, hordes of well-to-do whites are descending upon poor, minority neighbourhoods that were made to endure decades of discrimination. With their avocado on toast, beard oil and cappuccinos, these people snuff out local culture. As rents rise, lifelong residents are evicted and forced to leave. In this view, the quintessential scene might be one witnessed in Oakland, California, where a miserable-looking homeless encampment rests a mere ten-minute walk from a Whole Foods landscaped with palm trees and bougainvillea, offering chia and flax seed upon entry. An ancient, sinister force lurks behind the overpriced produce. Gentrification is but a more pleasing name for white supremacy, wrote Ta-Nehisi Coates. It is the interest on enslavement, the interest on Jim Crow, the interest on redlining, compounding across the years. This story is better described as an urban myth. The supposed ills of gentrificationwhich might be more neutrally defined as poorer urban neighbourhoods becoming wealthierlack rigorous support. The most careful empirical analyses conducted by urban economists have failed to detect a rise in displacement within gentrifying neighbourhoods. Often, they find that poor residents are more likely to stay put if they live in these areas. At the same time, the benefits of gentrification are scarcely considered. Longtime residents reap the rewards of reduced crime and better amenities. Those lucky enough to own their homes come out richer. The left usually bemoans the lack of investment in historically non-white neighbourhoods, white flight from city centres and economic segregation. Yet gentrification straightforwardly reverses each of those regrettable trends. The anti-gentrification brigades often cite anecdotes from residents forced to move. Yet the data suggest a different story. An influential study by Lance Freeman and Frank Braconi found that poor residents living in New Yorks gentrifying neighbourhoods during the 1990s were actually less likely to move than poor residents of non-gentrifying areas. A follow-up study by Mr Freeman, using a nationwide sample, found scant association between gentrification and displacement. A more recent examination found that financially vulnerable residents in Philadelphiathose with low credit scores and no mortgagesare no more likely to move if they live in a gentrifying neighbourhood. Those who bemoan segregation and gentrification simultaneously risk contradiction. The introduction of affluent, white residents into poor, minority districts boosts racial and economic integration. It can dilute the concentration of povertywhich a mountain of economic and sociological literature has linked to all manner of poor outcomes, including teenage pregnancy, incarceration and early death. Gentrification steers cash into deprived neighbourhoods and brings people into depopulated areas through market forces, all without the necessity of governmental intervention. The Trump administration is unlikely to offer large infusions of cash to dilapidated cities. In these circumstances, arguing against gentrification can amount to insistence that poor neighbourhoods remain poor and that racially segregated neighbourhoods stay cut off.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Milkman5 06/24/18 5:36:59 PM #2:	Gentrification was always a meaningless liberal talking point <cite>Milkman5 posted [p:903889281] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote>Gentrification was always a meaningless liberal talking point</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
John_Galt 06/24/18 5:39:50 PM #3:	Before gentrification: "it's terrible. Why won't somebody do something" After gentrification: "it's terrible. Why did somebody do something?" --- Who is John Galt? <cite>John_Galt posted [p:903889454] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote>Before gentrification: "it's terrible. Why won't somebody do something" After gentrification: "it's terrible. Why did somebody do something?"</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 06/24/18 5:42:29 PM #4:	Eh, that same team at the fed that did that study in Philadelphia also found that gentrification, while not directly displacing people, caused a differential impact between renters and owners. Renters became more debt burdened and, while not more likely to move, were more likely to move to an even lower income area than similar residents of non gentrifying areas --- It's one more thing we do to the poor, the deprived: cut out their tongues . . . allow them a language as lousy as their lives <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:903889586] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote>Eh, that same team at the fed that did that study in Philadelphia also found that gentrification, while not directly displacing people, caused a differential impact between renters and owners. Renters became more debt burdened and, while not more likely to move, were more likely to move to an even lower income area than similar residents of non gentrifying areas</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Fluttershy462 06/24/18 5:43:44 PM #5:	Milkman5 posted... Gentrification was always a meaningless liberal talking point Gentrified is a slur lmao --- Now hyped for: Pokemon Pikachu and Eevee Let's Go <cite>Fluttershy462 posted [p:903889658] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote><cite>Milkman5 posted...</cite> <quote>Gentrification was always a meaningless liberal talking point</quote> Gentrified is a slur lmao</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ImTheMacheteGuy 06/24/18 5:44:00 PM #6:	whites people --- Place-holder sig because new phone and old sigs not saved :/ <cite>ImTheMacheteGuy posted [p:903889673] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote>whites people</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MonkeyBones23 06/24/18 5:44:34 PM #7:	Gentrification isn't bad. The execution of gentrification is bad. --- We're a forest of lives, but we grow tall and wide. We'll never be cut down. <cite>MonkeyBones23 posted [p:903889698] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote>Gentrification isn't bad. The execution of gentrification is bad.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sad_Face 06/24/18 5:50:19 PM #8:	Seeing as if you walked down the street in Brooklyn and notice a distinct difference in the neighborhood demographics types compared over a decade ago, and how my sister referred me to a Affordable Housing application to live in NYC a while ago, I became a bit skeptical and looked for article that backs up my bias. https://citylimits.org/2015/11/20/the-complicated-research-on-how-gentrification-affects-the-poor/ The first, a 2004 paper by Lance Freeman and Frank Braconi, looked at gentrification in New York City from 1991 to 1999, focusing on Chelsea, Harlem, the Lower East Side, Morningside Heights, Fort Greene, park Slope and Williamsburg. Each of those neighborhoods had a higher proportion of white people, higher average rents, higher average incomes and higher educational attainment at the end of the study period. Compared to other neighborhoods of the city, however, low-income people in those gentrifying areas were 19 percent less likely to move. In 2005, Freeman wrote about the topic again, using national data. This time, he didnt find lower mobility in gentrifying areas: Instead, he found a modest increase in displacement in those neighborhoods, but it wasnt any higher for poor people. A 2010 paper by Ingrid Gould Ellen and Katherine M. ORegan, two researchers at the Furman Center, which Been led at the time, produced perhaps the most sanguine results... That paper, which used Census data and examined neighborhood changes in the 1990s, also found no evidence that neighborhoods that experienced a gain in income relative to the metro area as a whole saw an increase in the percentage of residents who were white. Of course, each of these findings is based on averages; some individual neighborhoods naturally followed a different course, the researchers noted. Indeed, these empirical studies clash directly with what seems to the naked eye to be true in some of those very neighborhoods Freeman and Braconi examined 11 years ago. How is it those communities have changed so visibly if the evidence suggests the process at play there does not typically uproot poor people? In his 2005 work, Freeman makes an important point: What was significant in the data he studied was not so much who was or wasnt being driven out of gentrifying neighborhoods but who was coming in: people more likely to be white and with higher incomes than the original residents. Other research indicates that, as one might expect, poor people are less able to move into gentrifying areas than other neighborhoods. And a study of gentrification in England and Wales by Freeman, Adele Cassola and Tiacheng Cai that was published this year noted that low-income households have much higher turnover rates than other households. Put it all together, and youve got this: Gentrification might not drive poor people out of neighborhoods, but gentrifying neighborhoods are where theres a greater risk that when low-income households leave their apartments those spots will be taken up by wealthier people. In other words, the issue isnt displacement of the poor, but replacement. --- imgtc.com/i/4HgTl0ebzq.jpg imgtc.com/i/60CWP2Gtlg.gif <cite>Sad_Face posted [p:903889972] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote>Seeing as if you walked down the street in Brooklyn and notice a distinct difference in the neighborhood demographics types compared over a decade ago, and how my sister referred me to a Affordable Housing application to live in NYC a while ago, I became a bit skeptical and looked for article that backs up my bias. <cite>https://citylimits.org/2015/11/20/the-complicated-research-on-how-gentrification-affects-the-poor/</cite> <quote>The first, a 2004 paper by Lance Freeman and Frank Braconi, looked at gentrification in New York City from 1991 to 1999, focusing on Chelsea, Harlem, the Lower East Side, Morningside Heights, Fort Greene, park Slope and Williamsburg. Each of those neighborhoods had a higher proportion of white people, higher average rents, higher average incomes and higher educational attainment at the end of the study period. Compared to other neighborhoods of the city, however, low-income people in those gentrifying areas were 19 percent less likely to move. In 2005, Freeman wrote about the topic again, using national data. This time, he didnt find lower mobility in gentrifying areas: Instead, he found a modest increase in displacement in those neighborhoods, but it wasnt any higher for poor people. A 2010 paper by Ingrid Gould Ellen and Katherine M. ORegan, two researchers at the Furman Center, which Been led at the time, produced perhaps the most sanguine results... That paper, which used Census data and examined neighborhood changes in the 1990s, also found no evidence that neighborhoods that experienced a gain in income relative to the metro area as a whole saw an increase in the percentage of residents who were white. Of course, each of these findings is based on averages; some individual neighborhoods naturally followed a different course, the researchers noted. Indeed, these empirical studies clash directly with what seems to the naked eye to be true in some of those very neighborhoods Freeman and Braconi examined 11 years ago. How is it those communities have changed so visibly if the evidence suggests the process at play there does not typically uproot poor people? In his 2005 work, Freeman makes an important point: What was significant in the data he studied was not so much who was or wasnt being driven out of gentrifying neighborhoods but who was coming in: people more likely to be white and with higher incomes than the original residents. Other research indicates that, as one might expect, poor people are less able to move into gentrifying areas than other neighborhoods. And a study of gentrification in England and Wales by Freeman, Adele Cassola and Tiacheng Cai that was published this year noted that low-income households have much higher turnover rates than other households. Put it all together, and youve got this: Gentrification might not drive poor people out of neighborhoods, but gentrifying neighborhoods are where theres a greater risk that when low-income households leave their apartments those spots will be taken up by wealthier people. In other words, the issue isnt displacement of the poor, but replacement.</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FeatherCoin462 06/24/18 10:52:45 PM #9:	ImTheMacheteGuy posted... whites people Its just typo, lol dont be so easy to trigger <cite>FeatherCoin462 posted [p:903904995] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote><cite>ImTheMacheteGuy posted...</cite> <quote>whites people</quote> Its just typo, lol dont be so easy to trigger</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ImTheMacheteGuy 06/25/18 12:46:57 AM #10:	FeatherCoin462 posted... ImTheMacheteGuy posted... whites people It?s just typo, lol don?t be so easy to trigger It's just a quote, lol don't be so quick to whip your dick out and start crying --- Place-holder sig because new phone and old sigs not saved :/ <cite>ImTheMacheteGuy posted [p:903909924] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote><cite>FeatherCoin462 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>ImTheMacheteGuy posted...</cite> <quote>whites people</quote> It?s just typo, lol don?t be so easy to trigger</quote> It's just a quote, lol don't be so quick to whip your dick out and start crying</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
EternalDivide 06/25/18 1:11:59 AM #11:	Gentrification is just a way for liberal whites to be racists while claiming they're not. Kick out low income people who are almost always non whites to "improve" the neighborhoods they were in and then up the price so only other well off, like minded, liberal whites can move in. And what of all those poor people these same promoters of gentrification are always crying about and supposedly caring so much about? Who gives a shit. They're not where we can see them anymore so who cares. Until it comes to crying about their treatment online or at a political rally. They we'll act like we care oh so much. --- FFVII Remake: A disaster in the making. I'll laugh at whatever I find funny whether you like it or not. <cite>EternalDivide posted [p:903910768] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote>Gentrification is just a way for liberal whites to be racists while claiming they're not. Kick out low income people who are almost always non whites to "improve" the neighborhoods they were in and then up the price so only other well off, like minded, liberal whites can move in. And what of all those poor people these same promoters of gentrification are always crying about and supposedly caring so much about? Who gives a shit. They're not where we can see them anymore so who cares. Until it comes to crying about their treatment online or at a political rally. They we'll act like we care oh so much.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ImTheMacheteGuy 06/25/18 1:45:50 AM #12:	EternalDivide posted... waaaaaaahhhhh --- Place-holder sig because new phone and old sigs not saved :/ <cite>ImTheMacheteGuy posted [p:903911789] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote><cite>EternalDivide posted...</cite> <quote>waaaaaaahhhhh</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
YOUHAVENOHOPE 06/25/18 1:46:41 AM #13:	EmaIdon7 posted... often ignore the declining crime rate and increased wages and availability of services >the problem is going away as long as we just push it somewhere else --- https://imgur.com/kpXTakw https://imgur.com/Pto3yPa http://media.giphy.com/media/NBVBnHv8bV13q/giphy.gif <cite>YOUHAVENOHOPE posted [p:903911815] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote><cite>EmaIdon7 posted...</cite> <quote>often ignore the declining crime rate and increased wages and availability of services</quote> >the problem is going away as long as we just push it somewhere else</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 06/25/18 9:40:18 AM #14:	YOUHAVENOHOPE posted... EmaIdon7 posted... often ignore the declining crime rate and increased wages and availability of services >the problem is going away as long as we just push it somewhere else except it doesn't increase out-movement from the neighborhood, so the dispersion of criminal activity (assuming this is how crime works) that occurs would have occurred anyway. So the lower rate of crime in the neighborhood represents a 'true' reduction again assuming that is how crime works --- It's one more thing we do to the poor, the deprived: cut out their tongues . . . allow them a language as lousy as their lives <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:903923261] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote><cite>YOUHAVENOHOPE posted...</cite> <quote><cite>EmaIdon7 posted...</cite> <quote>often ignore the declining crime rate and increased wages and availability of services</quote> >the problem is going away as long as we just push it somewhere else</quote> except it doesn't increase out-movement from the neighborhood, so the dispersion of criminal activity (assuming this is how crime works) that occurs would have occurred anyway. So the lower rate of crime in the neighborhood represents a 'true' reduction again assuming that is how crime works</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Anarchy_Juiblex 06/25/18 9:43:47 AM #15:	Is anyone surprised? A rising tide lifts all ships. Even if there are growing pains there's obviously a net gain. --- "Tolerance of intolerance is cowardice." ~ Ayaan Hirsi Ali <cite>Anarchy_Juiblex posted [p:903923423] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote>Is anyone surprised? A rising tide lifts all ships. Even if there are growing pains there's obviously a net gain.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 06/25/18 9:44:35 AM #16:	Anarchy_Juiblex posted... Is anyone surprised? A rising tide lifts all ships. that is quite literally untrue, per the research cited in this very article, though --- It's one more thing we do to the poor, the deprived: cut out their tongues . . . allow them a language as lousy as their lives <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:903923451] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote><cite>Anarchy_Juiblex posted...</cite> <quote>Is anyone surprised? A rising tide lifts all ships.</quote> that is quite literally untrue, per the research cited in this very article, though</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 06/25/18 9:45:12 AM #17:	whites move out, white flight whites move in, gentrification wtf should whites do? --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:903923470] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote>whites move out, white flight whites move in, gentrification wtf should whites do?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Abyssea 06/25/18 9:46:28 AM #18:	what's wrong with cappuccinos though? --- https://imgur.com/F2h5rw2 <cite>Abyssea posted [p:903923521] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote>what's wrong with cappuccinos though?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Anarchy_Juiblex 06/25/18 9:46:39 AM #19:	FLUFFYGERM posted... whites move out, white flight whites move in, gentrification wtf should whites do? Nothing will ever be enough for the anti-white racists. That's how racism works. --- "Tolerance of intolerance is cowardice." ~ Ayaan Hirsi Ali <cite>Anarchy_Juiblex posted [p:903923530] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>whites move out, white flight whites move in, gentrification wtf should whites do?</quote> Nothing will ever be enough for the anti-white racists. That's how racism works.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 06/25/18 9:48:08 AM #20:	Balrog0 posted... Anarchy_Juiblex posted... Is anyone surprised? A rising tide lifts all ships. that is quite literally untrue, per the research cited in this very article, though nothing is 100% effective, but gentrification does reduce poverty and bring cash and jobs into the community. a community that would otherwise remain in poverty. go look at Englewood in Chicago. one of the worst and most violent parts of Chicago, but it has been seeing serious reductions in crime as gentrification has been occuring. more businesses moved in, like a Chipotle, Starbucks, Wingstop, and Whole Foods, to try to give the community more jobs and more shopping opportunities. only a leftist shill would see a problem with this. --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:903923595] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Anarchy_Juiblex posted...</cite> <quote>Is anyone surprised? A rising tide lifts all ships.</quote> that is quite literally untrue, per the research cited in this very article, though</quote> nothing is 100% effective, but gentrification does reduce poverty and bring cash and jobs into the community. a community that would otherwise remain in poverty. go look at Englewood in Chicago. one of the worst and most violent parts of Chicago, but it has been seeing serious reductions in crime as gentrification has been occuring. more businesses moved in, like a Chipotle, Starbucks, Wingstop, and Whole Foods, to try to give the community more jobs and more shopping opportunities. only a leftist shill would see a problem with this.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 06/25/18 9:49:00 AM #21:	Anarchy_Juiblex posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... whites move out, white flight whites move in, gentrification wtf should whites do? Nothing will ever be enough for the anti-white racists. That's how racism works. yeah it's insane. like Ta-Nehisi Coates --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:903923629] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote><cite>Anarchy_Juiblex posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>whites move out, white flight whites move in, gentrification wtf should whites do?</quote> Nothing will ever be enough for the anti-white racists. That's how racism works.</quote> yeah it's insane. like Ta-Nehisi Coates</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 06/25/18 9:49:13 AM #22:	FLUFFYGERM posted... nothing is 100% effective, but gentrification does reduce poverty and bring cash and jobs into the community. a community that would otherwise remain in poverty. its not that it isn't 100% effective, it is that it has different impacts on different people depending on how precarious their financial situation is in a topic that deserves nuance, it doesn't make sense to me to be just as or even more deliberately obtuse than 'teh liherals' --- It's one more thing we do to the poor, the deprived: cut out their tongues . . . allow them a language as lousy as their lives <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:903923638] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>nothing is 100% effective, but gentrification does reduce poverty and bring cash and jobs into the community. a community that would otherwise remain in poverty. </quote> its not that it isn't 100% effective, it is that it has different impacts on different people depending on how precarious their financial situation is in a topic that deserves nuance, it doesn't make sense to me to be just as or even more deliberately obtuse than 'teh liherals'</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
darkjedilink 06/25/18 9:55:33 AM #23:	FLUFFYGERM posted... whites move out, white flight whites move in, gentrification wtf should whites do? Die off, and give black people their stuff, according to BLM. --- 'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen <cite>darkjedilink posted [p:903923873] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>whites move out, white flight whites move in, gentrification wtf should whites do?</quote> Die off, and give black people their stuff, according to BLM.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 06/25/18 9:59:55 AM #24:	Balrog0 posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... nothing is 100% effective, but gentrification does reduce poverty and bring cash and jobs into the community. a community that would otherwise remain in poverty. its not that it isn't 100% effective, it is that it has different impacts on different people depending on how precarious their financial situation is in a topic that deserves nuance, it doesn't make sense to me to be just as or even more deliberately obtuse than 'teh liherals' choosing to leave an area in its delapidated and violent state because of the tiny outlier of people who have it worse after gentrification is not reasonable --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:903924043] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>nothing is 100% effective, but gentrification does reduce poverty and bring cash and jobs into the community. a community that would otherwise remain in poverty. </quote> its not that it isn't 100% effective, it is that it has different impacts on different people depending on how precarious their financial situation is in a topic that deserves nuance, it doesn't make sense to me to be just as or even more deliberately obtuse than 'teh liherals'</quote> choosing to leave an area in its delapidated and violent state because of the tiny outlier of people who have it worse after gentrification is not reasonable</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DeadSite 06/25/18 10:02:40 AM #25:	Numbers don't mean anything. Listen to Open Mike Eagle's album if you don't think people are losing things due to gentrification <cite>DeadSite posted [p:903924144] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote>Numbers don't mean anything. Listen to Open Mike Eagle's album if you don't think people are losing things due to gentrification</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 06/25/18 10:04:19 AM #26:	DeadSite posted... Numbers don't mean anything. Listen to Open Mike Eagle's album if you don't think people are losing things due to gentrification lmfao --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:903924229] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote><cite>DeadSite posted...</cite> <quote>Numbers don't mean anything. Listen to Open Mike Eagle's album if you don't think people are losing things due to gentrification</quote> lmfao</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Solid Sonic 06/25/18 10:05:10 AM #27:	Basically gentrification occurs when the standard of living is raised in the area without a comparable increase in wages. I dont know why anyone would be opposed ro raising the standard of living but it also shouldnt necessarily be the fault or responsibility of the people who seize an opportunity to perform urban renewal on an area to improve the job situation to match the uplift. What are you even supposed to do? Leaving it as it is will just incur rampant X doesnt care about Y people! complaints but renovating a downtrodden area of town doesnt magically make better jobs appear either. --- The only game reviewers who can be trusted are those who publish in Latin or Swahili. <cite>Solid Sonic posted [p:903924268] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote>Basically gentrification occurs when the standard of living is raised in the area without a comparable increase in wages. I dont know why anyone would be opposed ro raising the standard of living but it also shouldnt necessarily be the fault or responsibility of the people who seize an opportunity to perform urban renewal on an area to improve the job situation to match the uplift. What are you even supposed to do? Leaving it as it is will just incur rampant X doesnt care about Y people! complaints but renovating a downtrodden area of town doesnt magically make better jobs appear either.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 06/25/18 10:10:30 AM #28:	Solid Sonic posted... Basically gentrification occurs when the standard of living is raised in the area without a comparable increase in wages. I dont know why anyone would be opposed ro raising the standard of living but it also shouldnt necessarily be the fault or responsibility of the people who seize an opportunity to perform urban renewal on an area to improve the job situation to match the uplift. What are you even supposed to do? Leaving it as it is will just incur rampant X doesnt care about Y people! complaints but renovating a downtrodden area of town doesnt magically make better jobs appear either. Wrong. The new Whole Foods in Englewood Chicago pays more than most other jobs in the area. The same is true of the Chipotle, Starbucks, Wingstop, etc. --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:903924506] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote><cite>Solid Sonic posted...</cite> <quote>Basically gentrification occurs when the standard of living is raised in the area without a comparable increase in wages. I dont know why anyone would be opposed ro raising the standard of living but it also shouldnt necessarily be the fault or responsibility of the people who seize an opportunity to perform urban renewal on an area to improve the job situation to match the uplift. What are you even supposed to do? Leaving it as it is will just incur rampant X doesnt care about Y people! complaints but renovating a downtrodden area of town doesnt magically make better jobs appear either.</quote> Wrong. The new Whole Foods in Englewood Chicago pays more than most other jobs in the area. The same is true of the Chipotle, Starbucks, Wingstop, etc.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
mistalightbulb 06/25/18 10:14:39 AM #29:	destruction of local culture <cite>mistalightbulb posted [p:903924676] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote>destruction of local culture</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
mistalightbulb 06/25/18 10:15:48 AM #30:	FLUFFYGERM posted... The same is true of the Chipotle, Starbucks, Wingstop, etc. not sure about whole foods but these 3 all pay around 10 dollars an hour <cite>mistalightbulb posted [p:903924737] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>The same is true of the Chipotle, Starbucks, Wingstop, etc. </quote> not sure about whole foods but these 3 all pay around 10 dollars an hour</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
VectorChaos 06/25/18 10:22:50 AM #31:	Of course regressives hate it. It's hard to convince people they're actually oppressed and need to vote for you to be saved when they and their community are doing well. Also relevant https://imgur.com/KPc5tqZ --- "Donald Trump has the most presidential penis of all time" - DifferentialEquation <cite>VectorChaos posted [p:903925037] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote>Of course regressives hate it. It's hard to convince people they're actually oppressed and need to vote for you to be saved when they and their community are doing well. Also relevant https://imgur.com/KPc5tqZ</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 06/25/18 10:55:47 AM #32:	FLUFFYGERM posted... Balrog0 posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... nothing is 100% effective, but gentrification does reduce poverty and bring cash and jobs into the community. a community that would otherwise remain in poverty. its not that it isn't 100% effective, it is that it has different impacts on different people depending on how precarious their financial situation is in a topic that deserves nuance, it doesn't make sense to me to be just as or even more deliberately obtuse than 'teh liherals' choosing to leave an area in its delapidated and violent state because of the tiny outlier of people who have it worse after gentrification is not reasonable I dunno that it is a tiny outlier of people, for one thing, but even if it was there's no reason to pretend they don't exist. I never said we shouldn't 'gentrify' just pointing out the tradeoffs involved --- It's one more thing we do to the poor, the deprived: cut out their tongues . . . allow them a language as lousy as their lives <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:903926452] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>nothing is 100% effective, but gentrification does reduce poverty and bring cash and jobs into the community. a community that would otherwise remain in poverty. </quote> its not that it isn't 100% effective, it is that it has different impacts on different people depending on how precarious their financial situation is in a topic that deserves nuance, it doesn't make sense to me to be just as or even more deliberately obtuse than 'teh liherals'</quote> choosing to leave an area in its delapidated and violent state because of the tiny outlier of people who have it worse after gentrification is not reasonable</quote> I dunno that it is a tiny outlier of people, for one thing, but even if it was there's no reason to pretend they don't exist. I never said we shouldn't 'gentrify' just pointing out the tradeoffs involved</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 06/25/18 10:56:38 AM #33:	mistalightbulb posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... The same is true of the Chipotle, Starbucks, Wingstop, etc. not sure about whole foods but these 3 all pay around 10 dollars an hour The median household income in Englewood is like $11,000 per year. So $10 per hour at a full-time job already puts you well above that as an individual. --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:903926482] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote><cite>mistalightbulb posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>The same is true of the Chipotle, Starbucks, Wingstop, etc. </quote> not sure about whole foods but these 3 all pay around 10 dollars an hour</quote> The median household income in Englewood is like $11,000 per year. So $10 per hour at a full-time job already puts you well above that as an individual.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Tyranthraxus 06/25/18 10:58:37 AM #35:	Milkman5 posted... Gentrification was always a meaningless liberal talking point The problem isn't actually gentrification, it's property taxes. They need to be abolished. You shouldn't have to pay for something you already own that's fucking bullshit. --- https://puu.sh/tcLsT/24f4611235.png https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv <cite>Tyranthraxus posted [p:903926561] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote><cite>Milkman5 posted...</cite> <quote>Gentrification was always a meaningless liberal talking point</quote> The problem isn't actually gentrification, it's property taxes. They need to be abolished. You shouldn't have to pay for something you already own that's fucking bullshit.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 06/25/18 10:59:15 AM #36:	Balrog0 posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... Balrog0 posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... nothing is 100% effective, but gentrification does reduce poverty and bring cash and jobs into the community. a community that would otherwise remain in poverty. its not that it isn't 100% effective, it is that it has different impacts on different people depending on how precarious their financial situation is in a topic that deserves nuance, it doesn't make sense to me to be just as or even more deliberately obtuse than 'teh liherals' choosing to leave an area in its delapidated and violent state because of the tiny outlier of people who have it worse after gentrification is not reasonable I dunno that it is a tiny outlier of people, for one thing, but even if it was there's no reason to pretend they don't exist. I never said we shouldn't 'gentrify' just pointing out the tradeoffs involved The point is that we need to be pragmatic. There's never going to be a perfect way to fix a problem. If the overwhelming net gain is that a community thrives and benefits from gentrification, then it is a good thing. I guarantee you that the people in Englewood who are benefiting from what is happening before our very eyes are not going to call gentrification a bad thing, even if some of the people who refuse to work/embrace change are going to call it bad. If you're ever in the Chicago area let me know and I'll gladly drive you around Englewood so you can see a real example of what gentrification is doing. We can drive to the areas even worse than Englewood so you can see what the alternative is to inconveniencing a fraction of the population that'll have to relocate if they don't land a job at the new businesses. --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:903926597] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>nothing is 100% effective, but gentrification does reduce poverty and bring cash and jobs into the community. a community that would otherwise remain in poverty. </quote> its not that it isn't 100% effective, it is that it has different impacts on different people depending on how precarious their financial situation is in a topic that deserves nuance, it doesn't make sense to me to be just as or even more deliberately obtuse than 'teh liherals'</quote> choosing to leave an area in its delapidated and violent state because of the tiny outlier of people who have it worse after gentrification is not reasonable</quote> I dunno that it is a tiny outlier of people, for one thing, but even if it was there's no reason to pretend they don't exist. I never said we shouldn't 'gentrify' just pointing out the tradeoffs involved</quote> The point is that we need to be pragmatic. There's never going to be a perfect way to fix a problem. If the overwhelming net gain is that a community thrives and benefits from gentrification, then it is a good thing. I guarantee you that the people in Englewood who are benefiting from what is happening before our very eyes are not going to call gentrification a bad thing, even if some of the people who refuse to work/embrace change are going to call it bad. If you're ever in the Chicago area let me know and I'll gladly drive you around Englewood so you can see a real example of what gentrification is doing. We can drive to the areas even worse than Englewood so you can see what the alternative is to inconveniencing a fraction of the population that'll have to relocate if they don't land a job at the new businesses.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 06/25/18 10:59:18 AM #37:	fenderbender321 posted... Gentrification is just part of supply and demand. It's a necessary occurrence as cities grow. I disagree. It mostly occurs because of shitty government regulations around land use (i.e., zoning) --- It's one more thing we do to the poor, the deprived: cut out their tongues . . . allow them a language as lousy as their lives <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:903926598] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote><cite>fenderbender321 posted...</cite> <quote>Gentrification is just part of supply and demand. It's a necessary occurrence as cities grow.</quote> I disagree. It mostly occurs because of shitty government regulations around land use (i.e., zoning)</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 06/25/18 11:00:42 AM #38:	Tyranthraxus posted... Milkman5 posted... Gentrification was always a meaningless liberal talking point The problem isn't actually gentrification, it's property taxes. They need to be abolished. You shouldn't have to pay for something you already own that's fucking bullshit. I used to agree with this line of thought, but after some more reflection I think that the people who defended property taxes were right to some extent. We need the property taxes to keep things like garbage disposal, police, firefighters, libraries, etc, up and running. We definitely need to find out why some counties/cities/states are downright thieves when it comes to property tax, though. In Illinois especially. The property taxes here should be considered a crime against humanity since people are literally getting taxed out of their homes. We need some measure of property tax, though. --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:903926663] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote><cite>Tyranthraxus posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Milkman5 posted...</cite> <quote>Gentrification was always a meaningless liberal talking point</quote> The problem isn't actually gentrification, it's property taxes. They need to be abolished. You shouldn't have to pay for something you already own that's fucking bullshit.</quote> I used to agree with this line of thought, but after some more reflection I think that the people who defended property taxes were right to some extent. We need the property taxes to keep things like garbage disposal, police, firefighters, libraries, etc, up and running. We definitely need to find out why some counties/cities/states are downright thieves when it comes to property tax, though. In Illinois especially. The property taxes here should be considered a crime against humanity since people are literally getting taxed out of their homes. We need some measure of property tax, though.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 06/25/18 11:01:05 AM #39:	FLUFFYGERM posted... The point is that we need to be pragmatic. There's never going to be a perfect way to fix a problem. If the overwhelming net gain is that a community thrives and benefits from gentrification, then it is a good thing. so what if the majority of folks in the area are disadvantaged and wouldn't benefit from gentrification? FLUFFYGERM posted... I guarantee you that the people in Englewood who are benefiting from what is happening before our very eyes are not going to call gentrification a bad thing, even if some of the people who refuse to work/embrace change are going to call it bad. yeah and the disadvantaged people who got priced out and became more debt burdened without anything to show for it will complain about it FLUFFYGERM posted... If you're ever in the Chicago area let me know and I'll gladly drive you around Englewood so you can see a real example of what gentrification is doing. We can drive to the areas even worse than Englewood so you can see what the alternative is to inconveniencing a fraction of the population that'll have to relocate if they don't land a job at the new businesses. bro if you think gentrification is exclusive to chicago idk what to tell you, you can see it in literally every city from detroit to san jose to new york to miami --- It's one more thing we do to the poor, the deprived: cut out their tongues . . . allow them a language as lousy as their lives <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:903926678] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>The point is that we need to be pragmatic. There's never going to be a perfect way to fix a problem. If the overwhelming net gain is that a community thrives and benefits from gentrification, then it is a good thing.</quote> so what if the majority of folks in the area are disadvantaged and wouldn't benefit from gentrification? <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>I guarantee you that the people in Englewood who are benefiting from what is happening before our very eyes are not going to call gentrification a bad thing, even if some of the people who refuse to work/embrace change are going to call it bad.</quote> yeah and the disadvantaged people who got priced out and became more debt burdened without anything to show for it will complain about it <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>If you're ever in the Chicago area let me know and I'll gladly drive you around Englewood so you can see a real example of what gentrification is doing. We can drive to the areas even worse than Englewood so you can see what the alternative is to inconveniencing a fraction of the population that'll have to relocate if they don't land a job at the new businesses.</quote> bro if you think gentrification is exclusive to chicago idk what to tell you, you can see it in literally every city from detroit to san jose to new york to miami</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 06/25/18 11:01:50 AM #40:	Balrog0 posted... fenderbender321 posted... Gentrification is just part of supply and demand. It's a necessary occurrence as cities grow. I disagree. It mostly occurs because of shitty government regulations around land use (i.e., zoning) No, it occurs because people with money want to acquire and remodel property. So they look for areas that have property available at a low cost. This isn't usually wealthy people, since the wealthy are fine with building and remodeling in established areas. It's usually the small investor who is looking to get started, or someone who wants to buy a home but doesn't have a lot of cash saved. Repeat that over the years and you end up with gentrification. --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:903926711] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>fenderbender321 posted...</cite> <quote>Gentrification is just part of supply and demand. It's a necessary occurrence as cities grow.</quote> I disagree. It mostly occurs because of shitty government regulations around land use (i.e., zoning)</quote> No, it occurs because people with money want to acquire and remodel property. So they look for areas that have property available at a low cost. This isn't usually wealthy people, since the wealthy are fine with building and remodeling in established areas. It's usually the small investor who is looking to get started, or someone who wants to buy a home but doesn't have a lot of cash saved. Repeat that over the years and you end up with gentrification.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 06/25/18 11:03:08 AM #41:	Balrog0 posted... so what if the majority of folks in the area are disadvantaged and wouldn't benefit from gentrification? I don't see that happening, except maybe in extremely outlier cases like downtown San Francisco which is not the same thing at all. Balrog0 posted... yeah and the disadvantaged people who got priced out and became more debt burdened without anything to show for it will complain about it Are they partaking in the new opportunities? Or just expecting to ride the status quo that was keeping the community poor and violent? Balrog0 posted... bro if you think gentrification is exclusive to chicago idk what to tell you, you can see it in literally every city from detroit to san jose to new york to miami I didn't say it's exclusive to Chicago. I said I'd be willing to show you a live example of it in action, one that I'm really familiar with since I grew up around that area. --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:903926759] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote>so what if the majority of folks in the area are disadvantaged and wouldn't benefit from gentrification? </quote> I don't see that happening, except maybe in extremely outlier cases like downtown San Francisco which is not the same thing at all. <cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote>yeah and the disadvantaged people who got priced out and became more debt burdened without anything to show for it will complain about it </quote> Are they partaking in the new opportunities? Or just expecting to ride the status quo that was keeping the community poor and violent? <cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote>bro if you think gentrification is exclusive to chicago idk what to tell you, you can see it in literally every city from detroit to san jose to new york to miami </quote> I didn't say it's exclusive to Chicago. I said I'd be willing to show you a live example of it in action, one that I'm really familiar with since I grew up around that area.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 06/25/18 11:03:48 AM #42:	darkjedilink posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... whites move out, white flight whites move in, gentrification wtf should whites do? Die off Sadly this is what a lot of people believe --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:903926801] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote><cite>darkjedilink posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>whites move out, white flight whites move in, gentrification wtf should whites do?</quote> Die off</quote> Sadly this is what a lot of people believe</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 06/25/18 11:10:08 AM #43:	FLUFFYGERM posted... Balrog0 posted... fenderbender321 posted... Gentrification is just part of supply and demand. It's a necessary occurrence as cities grow. I disagree. It mostly occurs because of shitty government regulations around land use (i.e., zoning) No, it occurs because people with money want to acquire and remodel property. So they look for areas that have property available at a low cost. This isn't usually wealthy people, since the wealthy are fine with building and remodeling in established areas. It's usually the small investor who is looking to get started, or someone who wants to buy a home but doesn't have a lot of cash saved. Repeat that over the years and you end up with gentrification. It is wealthy people, because they can't build in wealthy areas, due to zoning and neighborhood home voters Incremental development, small investors, largely doesn't happen in gentrifying areas until after they reach a tipping point --- It's one more thing we do to the poor, the deprived: cut out their tongues . . . allow them a language as lousy as their lives <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:903927122] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>fenderbender321 posted...</cite> <quote>Gentrification is just part of supply and demand. It's a necessary occurrence as cities grow.</quote> I disagree. It mostly occurs because of shitty government regulations around land use (i.e., zoning)</quote> No, it occurs because people with money want to acquire and remodel property. So they look for areas that have property available at a low cost. This isn't usually wealthy people, since the wealthy are fine with building and remodeling in established areas. It's usually the small investor who is looking to get started, or someone who wants to buy a home but doesn't have a lot of cash saved. Repeat that over the years and you end up with gentrification.</quote> It is wealthy people, because they can't build in wealthy areas, due to zoning and neighborhood home voters Incremental development, small investors, largely doesn't happen in gentrifying areas until after they reach a tipping point</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 06/25/18 11:12:24 AM #44:	Balrog0 posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... Balrog0 posted... fenderbender321 posted... Gentrification is just part of supply and demand. It's a necessary occurrence as cities grow. I disagree. It mostly occurs because of shitty government regulations around land use (i.e., zoning) No, it occurs because people with money want to acquire and remodel property. So they look for areas that have property available at a low cost. This isn't usually wealthy people, since the wealthy are fine with building and remodeling in established areas. It's usually the small investor who is looking to get started, or someone who wants to buy a home but doesn't have a lot of cash saved. Repeat that over the years and you end up with gentrification. It is wealthy people, because they can't build in wealthy areas, due to zoning and neighborhood home voters Incremental development, small investors, largely doesn't happen in gentrifying areas until after they reach a tipping point If you have money, you can build wherever you want. If it was the wealthy people doing the brunt of the gentrification, there'd be no reason for a wealthy investor to not move into Chicagoland or other metro areas and start buying up entire cities. Englewood still is an awful place and it has slowly been getting better. Someone with tens of millions could've easily moved in and started acquiring massive tracts of property a really long time ago if it was the way you say it is. But it doesn't happen that way. It's people like me (IE people who scraped together two pennies to rub) that might go into Englewood and buy/remodel a house or a multi-unit property and get tenants in it. --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:903927214] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>fenderbender321 posted...</cite> <quote>Gentrification is just part of supply and demand. It's a necessary occurrence as cities grow.</quote> I disagree. It mostly occurs because of shitty government regulations around land use (i.e., zoning)</quote> No, it occurs because people with money want to acquire and remodel property. So they look for areas that have property available at a low cost. This isn't usually wealthy people, since the wealthy are fine with building and remodeling in established areas. It's usually the small investor who is looking to get started, or someone who wants to buy a home but doesn't have a lot of cash saved. Repeat that over the years and you end up with gentrification.</quote> It is wealthy people, because they can't build in wealthy areas, due to zoning and neighborhood home voters Incremental development, small investors, largely doesn't happen in gentrifying areas until after they reach a tipping point</quote> If you have money, you can build wherever you want. If it was the wealthy people doing the brunt of the gentrification, there'd be no reason for a wealthy investor to not move into Chicagoland or other metro areas and start buying up entire cities. Englewood still is an awful place and it has slowly been getting better. Someone with tens of millions could've easily moved in and started acquiring massive tracts of property a really long time ago if it was the way you say it is. But it doesn't happen that way. It's people like me (IE people who scraped together two pennies to rub) that might go into Englewood and buy/remodel a house or a multi-unit property and get tenants in it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Tyranthraxus 06/25/18 11:28:27 AM #48:	FLUFFYGERM posted... I used to agree with this line of thought, but after some more reflection I think that the people who defended property taxes were right to some extent. We need the property taxes to keep things like garbage disposal, police, firefighters, libraries, etc, up and running. We definitely need to find out why some counties/cities/states are downright thieves when it comes to property tax, though. In Illinois especially. The property taxes here should be considered a crime against humanity since people are literally getting taxed out of their homes. We need some measure of property tax, though. Then maybe have a land tax where you're taxed based on acreage you own and not the value of the land. That's the most pragmatic way of measuring infrastructure costs anyway. --- https://puu.sh/tcLsT/24f4611235.png https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv <cite>Tyranthraxus posted [p:903928006] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>I used to agree with this line of thought, but after some more reflection I think that the people who defended property taxes were right to some extent. We need the property taxes to keep things like garbage disposal, police, firefighters, libraries, etc, up and running. We definitely need to find out why some counties/cities/states are downright thieves when it comes to property tax, though. In Illinois especially. The property taxes here should be considered a crime against humanity since people are literally getting taxed out of their homes. We need some measure of property tax, though.</quote> Then maybe have a land tax where you're taxed based on acreage you own and not the value of the land. That's the most pragmatic way of measuring infrastructure costs anyway.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Questionmarktarius 06/25/18 11:30:22 AM #50:	FLUFFYGERM posted... whites move out, white flight whites move in, gentrification wtf should whites do? Communism, obviously. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:903928078] in Study: We&... [t:76746663]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>whites move out, white flight whites move in, gentrification wtf should whites do?</quote> Communism, obviously.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Study: We're told gentrification is 'bad', but inaction is far worse (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Study: We're told gentrification is 'bad', but inaction is far worse